The Bobcat Nation

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:14 pm**

With all the movement by FCS to FBS, it got me thinking about structure. Will we get to a situation where an FCS team will be able to act like a AAA farm team for a larger school? For example, Oregon and MSU. Oregon is limited on how many kids they can keep on the roster. What if Oregon paid a player via NIL to play at MSU for 2 years and be developed as a football player with the understanding that they will join Oregon as a junior? It sounds outlandish, but why not?

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:18 pm**

Cataholic wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:14 pm
With all the movement by FCS to FBS, it got me thinking about structure. Will we get to a situation where an FCS team will be able to act like a AAA farm team for a larger school? For example, Oregon and MSU. Oregon is limited on how many kids they can keep on the roster. What if Oregon paid a player via NIL to play at MSU for 2 years and be developed as a football player with the understanding that they will join Oregon as a junior? It sounds outlandish, but why not?

I think it's a good idea, but I don't think Oregon is parting with any money for a farm team when its already free.

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:21 pm**

Cataholic wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:14 pm
With all the movement by FCS to FBS, it got me thinking about structure. Will we get to a situation where an FCS team will be able to act like a AAA farm team for a larger school? For example, Oregon and MSU. Oregon is limited on how many kids they can keep on the roster. What if Oregon paid a player via NIL to play at MSU for 2 years and be developed as a football player with the understanding that they will join Oregon as a junior? It sounds outlandish, but why not?

It actually is pretty good idea. MSU gets top tier guys knows that we only have them for a couple of years so we are constantly knowing who is leaving and how to recruit around that. The two problems that I see....1. what happens if said player doesn't turn out to be good? We are stuck with a player that we may not really want but we have for the next 4yrs because of our "farm system". 2. what happens when we have a kid that is supposed to go to oregon but gets an offer from bama? msu wouldn't be able to force the kid to go to oregon, that could create problems with "big brother". I do kinda like the idea though. I know that when I was coming out of high school kansas told my head coach that they were going to get me a basketball scholarship to a juco close to them, after 2yrs they would then bring me over to play point guard. I chose not to go that route because i didn't trust them to uphold their end of the bargain, lol. so I do know that something similar happens already......

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:22 pm**

Why? Why would you commit to players in any way up front when few will develop to the level of talent you’re hoping for at a higher level? The milk is already free, but it’s your cow and I’m not buying the hay….

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:27 pm**

luckyirishguy25 wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:18 pm

Cataholic wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:14 pm
With all the movement by FCS to FBS, it got me thinking about structure. Will we get to a situation where an FCS team will be able to act like a AAA farm team for a larger school? For example, Oregon and MSU. Oregon is limited on how many kids they can keep on the roster. What if Oregon paid a player via NIL to play at MSU for 2 years and be developed as a football player with the understanding that they will join Oregon as a junior? It sounds outlandish, but why not?
I think it's a good idea, but I don't think Oregon is parting with any money for a farm team when its already free.

Certainly an interesting thought. But if it were to come to fruition, there are a lot of better options for the big schools.

The NCAA is at least reasonably likely to lose the lawsuit over JuCo eligibility...and the NCAA already doesn't count participation at non-college programs like prep acadamies.

Oregon would be a lot better served to spend its money on training players where it won't count as part of their 5 years.

I kinda hate it, but we could be going there.

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:28 pm**

What about instituting a royalty fee (or something similar) whenever an FBS school poaches a player from an FCS program? The player gets paid, but the school losing the player gets a small fee from the other school to be used for recruiting/collective.

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:32 pm**

Camo_Cat wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:28 pm
What about instituting a royalty fee (or something similar) whenever an FBS school poaches a player from an FCS program? The player gets paid, but the school losing the player gets a small fee from the other school to be used for recruiting/collective.

It would be something. There's got to be some angle FCS schools can take.

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:42 pm**

I don't think it's a stupid idea to consider in this ever-changing landscape, but ultimately it doesn't make sense to me.

I don't see what value it would add to MSU. They already get high end players who end up transferring to bigger schools. It seems like this arrangement would just create the foregone conclusion of a transfer.

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:56 pm**

Bigger teams putting players on loan to smaller teams-and even in different leagues or even countries happens all over the world. Anybody watch Welcome to Wrexham? They are lower level soccer team from Wales. They got a goal keeper on loan from Premier League powerhouse Arsenal. The player is still on the big team's books. I don't know if it can translate to college sports, but it's not a new concept.

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2025 5:31 pm**

BelgradeBobcat wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:56 pm
Bigger teams putting players on loan to smaller teams-and even in different leagues or even countries happens all over the world. Anybody watch Welcome to Wrexham? They are lower level soccer team from Wales. They got a goal keeper on loan from Premier League powerhouse Arsenal. The player is still on the big team's books. I don't know if it can translate to college sports, but it's not a new concept.

The international soccer model is an interesting one to at least speculate about. Let's say someday a school like Washington can sign a 5-star incoming high school recruit to a 4-year contract worth $250K per year, and can loan that player out to Montana State for his freshman year so he can get a full season of playing experience instead of sitting on the bench. MSU fans know the player is only guaranteed to be on the team for a year so there's less angst and uncertainty when he heads back to Seattle after the season ends. Who knows how it would work academically though, can the player take online classes through his "home" institution or does he have to be a student at the transfer school while he's there?

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2025 5:51 pm**

Lord Vigo wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:42 pm
I don't think it's a stupid idea to consider in this ever-changing landscape, but ultimately it doesn't make sense to me.

I don't see what value it would add to MSU. They already get high end players who end up transferring to bigger schools. It seems like this arrangement would just create the foregone conclusion of a transfer.

The portal's a mess. Until things change, at least MSU is one of the best FCS places to play and develop. Will be interesting to see who's left for Vigen to sift through.

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2025 5:57 pm**

Lord Vigo wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:42 pm
I don't think it's a stupid idea to consider in this ever-changing landscape, but ultimately it doesn't make sense to me.

I don't see what value it would add to MSU. They already get high end players who end up transferring to bigger schools. It seems like this arrangement would just create the foregone conclusion of a transfer.

It would not be for free. Such an arrangement for MSU would include financial benefits. For example, we cannot currently afford a NIL deal of $50,000. With such an arrangement between MSU and an FBS school, Oregon pays the $50,000 to the kid and we get player that we would not normally have access to.

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2025 6:07 pm**

When Choate first came to MSU the portal was great due to his connection with UW. Sterk, Williams and I know there were others, but I have to remind myself that MSU was around 8-14 his first two seasons so naturally it was a one way street for the most part.

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2025 6:07 pm**

MSU01 wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 08, 2025 5:31 pm

BelgradeBobcat wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:56 pm
Bigger teams putting players on loan to smaller teams-and even in different leagues or even countries happens all over the world. Anybody watch Welcome to Wrexham? They are lower level soccer team from Wales. They got a goal keeper on loan from Premier League powerhouse Arsenal. The player is still on the big team's books. I don't know if it can translate to college sports, but it's not a new concept.
The international soccer model is an interesting one to at least speculate about. Let's say someday a school like Washington can sign a 5-star incoming high school recruit to a 4-year contract worth $250K per year, and can loan that player out to Montana State for his freshman year so he can get a full season of playing experience instead of sitting on the bench. MSU fans know the player is only guaranteed to be on the team for a year so there's less angst and uncertainty when he heads back to Seattle after the season ends. Who knows how it would work academically though, can the player take online classes through his "home" institution or does he have to be a student at the transfer school while he's there?

Wait? These guys are supposed to be students?

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:01 pm**

Cataholic wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 08, 2025 5:57 pm

Lord Vigo wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:42 pm
I don't think it's a stupid idea to consider in this ever-changing landscape, but ultimately it doesn't make sense to me.

I don't see what value it would add to MSU. They already get high end players who end up transferring to bigger schools. It seems like this arrangement would just create the foregone conclusion of a transfer.
It would not be for free. Such an arrangement for MSU would include financial benefits. For example, we cannot currently afford a NIL deal of $50,000. With such an arrangement between MSU and an FBS school, Oregon pays the $50,000 to the kid and we get player that we would not normally have access to.

Ok, honest questions.

If Oregon is willing to pay a 50K$ NIL deal to a kid out of high school, why don’t they just put him on their own roster? I’m sure they have plenty of freshmen who make less than that and they’re in the habit of developing players too.

If MSU is a farm school for Oregon (or fill in the blank), then what prevents the bigger school from using its purse strings to control the smaller program? Dictate hires? Prioritize development over winning?

How do you bind a student athlete so that the transfer is guaranteed to happen? Would such an agreement also bind the school to accept the student even if he doesn’t develop and they don’t want him? If not, why would a student sign a deal like that? And if it isn’t contractually bound, why would a school front that NIL money if there’s a risk that the kid stays at the smaller school or goes elsewhere?

If MSU is already drawing the caliber of recruit who can develop into an FBS starter in a couple seasons, and they are, what are they getting out of this that they aren’t already getting?

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2025 8:05 pm**

TomCat88 wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 08, 2025 6:07 pm
When Choate first came to MSU the portal was great due to his connection with UW. Sterk, Williams and I know there were others, but I have to remind myself that MSU was around 8-14 his first two seasons so naturally it was a one way street for the most part.

Those transfers had nothing to do with the portal, in fact Sterk was pre-portal.
Players have ALWAYS been allowed to drop down from FBS to FCS without penalty.

The portal doesn't provide much help to top-tier fcs schools, it mostly provides a free path up to FBS, where before the portal players moving up had to sit out 1 year.
A few times, we have gotten an FCS guy in the portal. Rohan Jones comes to mind. There's probably a couple others.

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2025 11:35 pm**

Lord Vigo wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:01 pm

Cataholic wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 08, 2025 5:57 pm

Lord Vigo wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:42 pm
I don't think it's a stupid idea to consider in this ever-changing landscape, but ultimately it doesn't make sense to me.

I don't see what value it would add to MSU. They already get high end players who end up transferring to bigger schools. It seems like this arrangement would just create the foregone conclusion of a transfer.
It would not be for free. Such an arrangement for MSU would include financial benefits. For example, we cannot currently afford a NIL deal of $50,000. With such an arrangement between MSU and an FBS school, Oregon pays the $50,000 to the kid and we get player that we would not normally have access to.
Ok, honest questions.

If Oregon is willing to pay a 50K$ NIL deal to a kid out of high school, why don’t they just put him on their own roster? I’m sure they have plenty of freshmen who make less than that and they’re in the habit of developing players too.

If MSU is a farm school for Oregon (or fill in the blank), then what prevents the bigger school from using its purse strings to control the smaller program? Dictate hires? Prioritize development over winning?

How do you bind a student athlete so that the transfer is guaranteed to happen? Would such an agreement also bind the school to accept the student even if he doesn’t develop and they don’t want him? If not, why would a student sign a deal like that? And if it isn’t contractually bound, why would a school front that NIL money if there’s a risk that the kid stays at the smaller school or goes elsewhere?

If MSU is already drawing the caliber of recruit who can develop into an FBS starter in a couple seasons, and they are, what are they getting out of this that they aren’t already getting?

I am just presenting a new concept - maybe an opportunity for MSU. I definitely don’t have all the answers and not sure if anything like this would work, but it seems to work in another sports like baseball and soccer.

As for $50,000 to a freshman, I can only guess but I bet a freshman at Oregon gets more than $50,000 in NIL. Anyway, it could be $10,000 for an Oregon partial to play at the farm team, MSU. I don’t think any of our current incoming MSU recruits are getting $10,000 NIL to come play at MSU. And I am speculating that Oregon could become an MSU NIL supporter (just like any corporation) and have the NIL contract include an obligation to enroll at Oregon for $$$ in two years if an “option” is exercised. Seems totally crazy, but who would have ever thought just 10 years ago that FBS teams/affiliates would be paying tens of millions of dollars to players openly.

And why MSU? Because we have a good program with good coaching and development. Just like a farm system in baseball, they are supported by the parent club financially.

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2025 11:46 pm**

91catAlum wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 08, 2025 8:05 pm
The portal doesn't provide much help to top-tier fcs schools, it mostly provides a free path up to FBS, where before the portal players moving up had to sit out 1 year.
A few times, we have gotten an FCS guy in the portal. Rohan Jones comes to mind. There's probably a couple others.

I think the portal still helps us by making the drop-downs easier to find. If everybody knows who's out there, it's an open recruitment, which favors the better programs. I think that's the reason our hit rate has gone up lately.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2025 9:07 am**

its outright raping at this point..and we are the victims.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2025 9:21 am**

lakesbison wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 09, 2025 9:07 am
its outright raping at this point..and we are the victims.

You wear the redneck label very well. Disgusting

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