Who does NDSU beat next year in Frisco?

[technoCat]

Um, what?

I’m a sore loser?

Sore loser? Gotta toast to that one.

I'll own your opinion with you. NDSU has rolled us 3 straight times and it hasn't been close. Their program is the FCS Gold Standard. They called off the dogs after their first second-half drive. I think I even saw a 4th string QB run a play or two? They could have lit up the scoreboard more in the 2nd half as they had 1 TD, 1 FG, 2 punts and an 8-all-run-play, 5-minute drive to end the game. We couldn't stop these guys with our starters even when we knew they were running the ball.

Our first drive grossed 37 yards and ended with Garo Yepremian (you younger guys can Google it). Our second drive grossed 51 yards and ended with the Wide Right. A slight improvement with Rovig. I think the NDSU coaches are smart enough to realize that they were not going to get beat by Mellott's running. The first drive he was 3-8 rushing as they were keying on him. That would have lasted all game.

That being said, I bleed Blue and Gold as much as anyone. We just have to be honest with our team and know that one player was not going to change the outcome (and I am in the camp that it would not have changed the final deficit). We have met the enemy and know what it will take. It's amazing to think that we are one team away from being National Champions again, and that is out standard once again. I fully believe that we will get there!

People keep saying that they don't think Tommy/Chase would have made any difference and the field made no difference and we just are not at the same level as NDSU in any capacity. But then they often say that they believe we are close. What could we possibly change about this team in the next year or two that you believe would be the key? Replace the entire offensive and defensive lines? Not trying to start a fight but are we close or aren't we? If we don't believe that we are a player or two away, then why does anyone think we will get there before Vigen pulls up stakes and heads for greener pastures? Is 2nd tier the best we can hope for?

[kennethnoisewater]

Um, what?

I’m a sore loser?

Sore loser? Gotta toast to that one.

I'll own your opinion with you. NDSU has rolled us 3 straight times and it hasn't been close. Their program is the FCS Gold Standard. They called off the dogs after their first second-half drive. I think I even saw a 4th string QB run a play or two? They could have lit up the scoreboard more in the 2nd half as they had 1 TD, 1 FG, 2 punts and an 8-all-run-play, 5-minute drive to end the game. We couldn't stop these guys with our starters even when we knew they were running the ball.

Our first drive grossed 37 yards and ended with Garo Yepremian (you younger guys can Google it). Our second drive grossed 51 yards and ended with the Wide Right. A slight improvement with Rovig. I think the NDSU coaches are smart enough to realize that they were not going to get beat by Mellott's running. The first drive he was 3-8 rushing as they were keying on him. That would have lasted all game.

That being said, I bleed Blue and Gold as much as anyone. We just have to be honest with our team and know that one player was not going to change the outcome (and I am in the camp that it would not have changed the final deficit). We have met the enemy and know what it will take. It's amazing to think that we are one team away from being National Champions again, and that is out standard once again. I fully believe that we will get there!

People keep saying that they don't think Tommy/Chase would have made any difference and the field made no difference and we just are not at the same level as NDSU in any capacity. But then they often say that they believe we are close. What could we possibly change about this team in the next year or two that you believe would be the key? Replace the entire offensive and defensive lines? Not trying to start a fight but are we close or aren't we? If we don't believe that we are a player or two away, then why does anyone think we will get there before Vigen pulls up stakes and heads for greener pastures? Is 2nd tier the best we can hope for?

Yeah, NDSU has been beaten in the regular season a handful of times. I believe MSU is at least on par with the teams that have done that. Yes, NDSU manhandled the Bobcats. But TA was getting doubled on every play. The one play I saw Chase Benson, he got double teamed too. Not sure if that was his only play or not. They wouldn't have been able to double both of those guys on every play, so I really think a healthy Benson would've made a bigger difference than a healthy Mellott. Obviously injuries happen and you can't make excuses, but I think the point of that is that MSU was a couple injuries away from the narrative being that NDSU isn't THAT far out in front. They probably still win, but MSU doesn't look like a JV team against them if a couple things happen differently. I also believe that when you get gut punched early, it's hard to make a comeback. MSU punched the gris in the gut early in 2019 and won by 34. I would argue MSU wasn't 34 points better than um that day or that year. The gris punched the Cats in the gut early this year and MSU didn't recover. Likewise, I'd argue the gris aren't THAT much better than the Cats this year, even with an ineffective McKay. If MSU loses to NDSU something like 28-21, which I think is a real possibility with Benson and Mellott playing, we're not talking about this the same way. I believe 2 players (and possibly a different playing surface) make a big difference. Once again, I'm not saying it's enough to win.

[PortlandCat90]

Um, what?

I’m a sore loser?

Sore loser? Gotta toast to that one.

I'll own your opinion with you. NDSU has rolled us 3 straight times and it hasn't been close. Their program is the FCS Gold Standard. They called off the dogs after their first second-half drive. I think I even saw a 4th string QB run a play or two? They could have lit up the scoreboard more in the 2nd half as they had 1 TD, 1 FG, 2 punts and an 8-all-run-play, 5-minute drive to end the game. We couldn't stop these guys with our starters even when we knew they were running the ball.

Our first drive grossed 37 yards and ended with Garo Yepremian (you younger guys can Google it). Our second drive grossed 51 yards and ended with the Wide Right. A slight improvement with Rovig. I think the NDSU coaches are smart enough to realize that they were not going to get beat by Mellott's running. The first drive he was 3-8 rushing as they were keying on him. That would have lasted all game.

That being said, I bleed Blue and Gold as much as anyone. We just have to be honest with our team and know that one player was not going to change the outcome (and I am in the camp that it would not have changed the final deficit). We have met the enemy and know what it will take. It's amazing to think that we are one team away from being National Champions again, and that is out standard once again. I fully believe that we will get there!

People keep saying that they don't think Tommy/Chase would have made any difference and the field made no difference and we just are not at the same level as NDSU in any capacity. But then they often say that they believe we are close. What could we possibly change about this team in the next year or two that you believe would be the key? Replace the entire offensive and defensive lines? Not trying to start a fight but are we close or aren't we? If we don't believe that we are a player or two away, then why does anyone think we will get there before Vigen pulls up stakes and heads for greener pastures? Is 2nd tier the best we can hope for?

If NDSU isn't around, we are obviously having a different conversation. But we will meet that bully on the street for the next decade in order to take home the trophy. Thus, we have to find a way to beat them. As ilovethecats wrote, the last 3 meetings have not been kind to us. The good thing is that we have positioned ourselves as a running team, thus our growth and improvement will continue to be consistent with our strategy. In addition, this staff and players bought in together and we now know where the bar has been set for the Cats on an annual basis.

(1) We've addressed the depth and talent. Get the Big Nasties across both lines. To me, if we address the line(s) issue and continue bringing in talent elsewhere, we get there. I thought our WRs had a huge advantage against their secondary. Along those lines I know we have the inside track on one state of Texas WR and one state of Texas DL that would go a long way to changing this.

(2) It's said that teams take on their coach's persona. Vigen is very cerebral and for the most part, strategically calm. I would love to see us add some psycho weight room assistant or defensive position coach that got us jacked up. Get us ready to hit people in the mouth. We missed that against the Griz and Bison. Not sure why.

(3) Special Teams - this is one place that's been discussed ad nauseum but can play a huge role. Championship teams need all 3 aspects and we are not there ST-wise. This is an easy fix with some of the speed coming up but we just seemed to accept status quo here. Steel's injury had a big time impact that we may not realize.

Don't get me wrong - I believe in the direction we are heading and in everyone involved. I just don't buy into the idea that Mellott would have been 29 points better than Rovig in this game...and that ignores the fact that they called the dogs off with 20 minutes left in the game.

I have no idea about Vigen pulling up stakes and heading out. If he does, we will do what we always do - go out and hire the best we can. The great thing is we have the two-headed monster of Leon and Waded leading the charge.

[CelticCat]

If 2 players drastically changed the outcome for MSU, then no we aren't on NDSU's level yet.

[Hawks86]

Along those lines I know we have the inside track on one state of Texas WR and one state of Texas DL that would go a long way to changing this.

[85CatGrad]

If 2 players drastically changed the outcome for MSU, then no we aren't on NDSU's level yet.

I don't believe I have read where anyone is making that claim. NDSU was superior, just like they have been for the past decade. Case closed, argument over.

However, if you are here to say that 2 players can't make a huge difference, then I have 2 names for you...
Matt MacKay & Tommy Mellott

[TomCat88]

If 2 players drastically changed the outcome for MSU, then no we aren't on NDSU's level yet.

All positions are not created equal. MSU absorbed a lot of big injuries this year with its good depth at those positions. MSU was not deep at QB. I highly doubt the Bobcats beat SDSU without Mellott. He accounted for all but 16(?) yards. The defense would’ve gotten worn out by the Jacks run game after the MSU offense was unable to sustain drives.

SDSU lost its QB last year at the start of the game and lost a game it probably would’ve won with him. There are examples of this everywhere. In all sports.

NDSU is a great team. One of the greatest ever assembled in sports history. No FCS team can lose a key player like Mellott and expect to beat them.

[Catsrgrood]

Um, what?

I’m a sore loser?

Sore loser? Gotta toast to that one.

I'll own your opinion with you. NDSU has rolled us 3 straight times and it hasn't been close. Their program is the FCS Gold Standard. They called off the dogs after their first second-half drive. I think I even saw a 4th string QB run a play or two? They could have lit up the scoreboard more in the 2nd half as they had 1 TD, 1 FG, 2 punts and an 8-all-run-play, 5-minute drive to end the game. We couldn't stop these guys with our starters even when we knew they were running the ball.

Our first drive grossed 37 yards and ended with Garo Yepremian (you younger guys can Google it). Our second drive grossed 51 yards and ended with the Wide Right. A slight improvement with Rovig. I think the NDSU coaches are smart enough to realize that they were not going to get beat by Mellott's running. The first drive he was 3-8 rushing as they were keying on him. That would have lasted all game.

That being said, I bleed Blue and Gold as much as anyone. We just have to be honest with our team and know that one player was not going to change the outcome (and I am in the camp that it would not have changed the final deficit). We have met the enemy and know what it will take. It's amazing to think that we are one team away from being National Champions again, and that is out standard once again. I fully believe that we will get there!

People keep saying that they don't think Tommy/Chase would have made any difference and the field made no difference and we just are not at the same level as NDSU in any capacity. But then they often say that they believe we are close. What could we possibly change about this team in the next year or two that you believe would be the key? Replace the entire offensive and defensive lines? Not trying to start a fight but are we close or aren't we? If we don't believe that we are a player or two away, then why does anyone think we will get there before Vigen pulls up stakes and heads for greener pastures? Is 2nd tier the best we can hope for?

Yeah, NDSU has been beaten in the regular season a handful of times. I believe MSU is at least on par with the teams that have done that. Yes, NDSU manhandled the Bobcats. But TA was getting doubled on every play. The one play I saw Chase Benson, he got double teamed too. Not sure if that was his only play or not. They wouldn't have been able to double both of those guys on every play, so I really think a healthy Benson would've made a bigger difference than a healthy Mellott. Obviously injuries happen and you can't make excuses, but I think the point of that is that MSU was a couple injuries away from the narrative being that NDSU isn't THAT far out in front. They probably still win, but MSU doesn't look like a JV team against them if a couple things happen differently. I also believe that when you get gut punched early, it's hard to make a comeback. MSU punched the gris in the gut early in 2019 and won by 34. I would argue MSU wasn't 34 points better than um that day or that year. The gris punched the Cats in the gut early this year and MSU didn't recover. Likewise, I'd argue the gris aren't THAT much better than the Cats this year, even with an ineffective McKay. If MSU loses to NDSU something like 28-21, which I think is a real possibility with Benson and Mellott playing, we're not talking about this the same way. I believe 2 players (and possibly a different playing surface) make a big difference. Once again, I'm not saying it's enough to win.

This is where I’m at with it. Two things can be true at the same time;

-NDSU is the superior team and wins that game 9 out of 10 times
- The Cats would have had a better showing and made a more competitive game of it if Mellott plays the whole game, we have a healthy Benson to take up double teams, and the field conditions weren’t so atrocious. (Yes, they both played on the same surface but it’s also possible that certain playing conditions can favor one skill set/playing style over another, which I feel was the case with their OL and run game vs our front 7.)

So no, we’re not there yet, but I firmly believe we’ve mostly closed the gap since 2019, Even though they were both 28 pt losses.

I think the 2019 team was legitimately about 28 pts worse than NDSU at that time. I feel like the 2021 team had a perfect storm that caused them to be 28 pts worse, but in reality is probably about 10-14 pts worse with our starting QB and All American DT on a decent field.

It is what it is though and what’s done is done. I think we have a very real shot to be back in frisco in the coming years based on the depth we’ve been building and the general momentum behind this program. Top talent will continue to be recruited and developed.

[BleedingBLue]

Wasn't sure where to put this but it's pretty funny. Haley on the UM bandwagon again already.

https://theanalyst.com/na/2022/01/fcs-f ... on-top-10/

[coloradocat]

Wasn't sure where to put this but it's pretty funny. Haley on the UM bandwagon again already.

https://theanalyst.com/na/2022/01/fcs-f ... on-top-10/

1. NDSU's coach always looks like such a dork.

2. Robbie was awarded 3 tackles while I read the gris summary.

[BleedingBLue]

Wasn't sure where to put this but it's pretty funny. Haley on the UM bandwagon again already.

https://theanalyst.com/na/2022/01/fcs-f ... on-top-10/

1. NDSU's coach always looks like such a dork.

2. Robbie was awarded 3 tackles while I read the gris summary.

I think we should start referring to Bobbie Jr. as "half tackle hauck"

[ilovethecats]

Um, what?

I’m a sore loser?

Sore loser? Gotta toast to that one.

I'll own your opinion with you. NDSU has rolled us 3 straight times and it hasn't been close. Their program is the FCS Gold Standard. They called off the dogs after their first second-half drive. I think I even saw a 4th string QB run a play or two? They could have lit up the scoreboard more in the 2nd half as they had 1 TD, 1 FG, 2 punts and an 8-all-run-play, 5-minute drive to end the game. We couldn't stop these guys with our starters even when we knew they were running the ball.

Our first drive grossed 37 yards and ended with Garo Yepremian (you younger guys can Google it). Our second drive grossed 51 yards and ended with the Wide Right. A slight improvement with Rovig. I think the NDSU coaches are smart enough to realize that they were not going to get beat by Mellott's running. The first drive he was 3-8 rushing as they were keying on him. That would have lasted all game.

That being said, I bleed Blue and Gold as much as anyone. We just have to be honest with our team and know that one player was not going to change the outcome (and I am in the camp that it would not have changed the final deficit). We have met the enemy and know what it will take. It's amazing to think that we are one team away from being National Champions again, and that is out standard once again. I fully believe that we will get there!

People keep saying that they don't think Tommy/Chase would have made any difference and the field made no difference and we just are not at the same level as NDSU in any capacity. But then they often say that they believe we are close. What could we possibly change about this team in the next year or two that you believe would be the key? Replace the entire offensive and defensive lines? Not trying to start a fight but are we close or aren't we? If we don't believe that we are a player or two away, then why does anyone think we will get there before Vigen pulls up stakes and heads for greener pastures? Is 2nd tier the best we can hope for?

I guess it’s how you look at the team as a whole. I never believe a team at any level is ever one player away. So if my only choice is we can only be close to winning it all with one player, or we’re not close to winning it all without one player, I guess I’d have to say we’re not close. Thankfully I don’t think that has to be my only choice.

Throw everything we saw last weekend out the window. Let’s say the weather was perfect and Tommy played all game. Let’s even say Benson was healthy. Hell, for the sake of discussion let’s pretend Troy wasn’t doubled every play. Though that’s a wild one to me because of COURSE he was doubled every play. The way we were manhandled on both lines was the difference in the game. It was so obvious to see. I’m sure the coaches are very aware of it and will work to fix it. So while I think we have a team capable of getting back to Frisco, if they’re able to have their way with us on the offensive and defensive lines like they have for the last three years, I don’t see how we beat them.

I know nothing about line play so I don’t know what the answers are. I trust the coaches do. Maybe it’s new players? Maybe it’s developing current players. Maybe it’s strength and conditioning? Perhaps scheme? But I’m confident in our players and coaches, which is why I feel like we’ll be in the mix in the coming years.

[TomCat88]

The way we were manhandled on both lines was the difference in the game. It was so obvious to see.

I don't think NDSU's DL manhandled MSU's OL. I thought it looked a lot like the SDSU DL vs. MSU OL.

[TomCat88]

Our first drive grossed 37 yards and ended with Garo Yepremian (you younger guys can Google it). Our second drive grossed 51 yards and ended with the Wide Right. A slight improvement with Rovig. I think the NDSU coaches are smart enough to realize that they were not going to get beat by Mellott's running. The first drive he was 3-8 rushing as they were keying on him. That would have lasted all game.

That being said, I bleed Blue and Gold as much as anyone. We just have to be honest with our team and know that one player was not going to change the outcome (and I am in the camp that it would not have changed the final deficit).

You're comparing Mellott's drive, which he ran the final three plays on a torn ankle ligament to Rovig's first drive and are calling the Rovig drive a slight improvement? NDSU was going to shut down Mellott's running because their coaches are smart? Are UT-Martin's, SDSU's and SHSU's coaches not smart enough to do that too? Teams have been keying on Mellott since mid-season. Sure, he has stretches where he's only gets 8 yards on three carries. If you look at his individual carries you'll see this. You'll also see that his final numbers consist of 3-4-5 big runs.

"We have to be honest with our team..." You, and a lot of other folks on here are trying so hard to not be biased that you're becoming incoherent. Or are you just exaggerating for effect?

The outcome? Do you mean that you think people are saying MSU would've won or are you saying that you don't think the final score would be any different?

One player makes no difference? The Bulls lost Michael Jordan for two seasons and couldn't win a championship. Between winning three on either side of that. But, yeah, one player doesn't make any difference. The Bulls just weren't that good to begin with and those titles they won with Jordan were just a fluke. Got it.

[ilovethecats]

The way we were manhandled on both lines was the difference in the game. It was so obvious to see.

I don't think NDSU's DL manhandled MSU's OL. I thought it looked a lot like the SDSU DL vs. MSU OL.

I suppose in comparison to what their OL did to our DL you are correct. It wasn't that type of dominance. Though I still maintain they gave our OL fits all game, and I believe held us below our average in about every offensive category. Thus I feel that we need to be much better on the OL if we play NDSU again and expect to win.

[iaafan]

Our first drive grossed 37 yards and ended with Garo Yepremian (you younger guys can Google it). Our second drive grossed 51 yards and ended with the Wide Right. A slight improvement with Rovig. I think the NDSU coaches are smart enough to realize that they were not going to get beat by Mellott's running. The first drive he was 3-8 rushing as they were keying on him. That would have lasted all game.

That being said, I bleed Blue and Gold as much as anyone. We just have to be honest with our team and know that one player was not going to change the outcome (and I am in the camp that it would not have changed the final deficit).

You're comparing Mellott's drive, which he ran the final three plays on a torn ankle ligament to Rovig's first drive and are calling the Rovig drive a slight improvement? NDSU was going to shut down Mellott's running because their coaches are smart? Are UT-Martin's, SDSU's and SHSU's coaches not smart enough to do that too? Teams have been keying on Mellott since mid-season. Sure, he has stretches where he's only gets 8 yards on three carries. If you look at his individual carries you'll see this. You'll also see that his final numbers consist of 3-4-5 big runs.

"We have to be honest with our team..." You, and a lot of other folks on here are trying so hard to not be biased that you're becoming incoherent. Or are you just exaggerating for effect?

The outcome? Do you mean that you think people are saying MSU would've won or are you saying that you don't think the final score would be any different?

One player makes no difference? The Bulls lost Michael Jordan for two seasons and couldn't win a championship. Between winning three on either side of that. But, yeah, one player doesn't make any difference. The Bulls just weren't that good to begin with and those titles they won with Jordan were just a fluke. Got it.

This X infinite.

[iaafan]

The way we were manhandled on both lines was the difference in the game. It was so obvious to see.

I don't think NDSU's DL manhandled MSU's OL. I thought it looked a lot like the SDSU DL vs. MSU OL.

I suppose in comparison to what their OL did to our DL you are correct. It wasn't that type of dominance. Though I still maintain they gave our OL fits all game, and I believe held us below our average in about every offensive category. Thus I feel that we need to be much better on the OL if we play NDSU again and expect to win.

Ndsu wasn’t even as good as UM in manhandling our OL. But Mellott didn’t play vs UM so I guess that’s not a fair … oh, wait…

[ilovethecats]

The way we were manhandled on both lines was the difference in the game. It was so obvious to see.

I don't think NDSU's DL manhandled MSU's OL. I thought it looked a lot like the SDSU DL vs. MSU OL.

I suppose in comparison to what their OL did to our DL you are correct. It wasn't that type of dominance. Though I still maintain they gave our OL fits all game, and I believe held us below our average in about every offensive category. Thus I feel that we need to be much better on the OL if we play NDSU again and expect to win.

Ndsu wasn’t even as good as UM in manhandling our OL. But Mellott didn’t play vs UM so I guess that’s not a fair … oh, wait…

I don't know what that proves IAA. You're comparing the two teams that dominated us the most this season and saying that one of them manhandled us more than the other. I agree with you. The gris DL manhandled us more than even NDSU did. I don't think that's where we want the bar to be if we expect to get the Bison monkey off our back.

So I guess I agree with you. If we don't want to get dominated like we did against the Bison and gris, it all starts up front on both sides of the ball. I really don't see how this is a crazy take?

[ilovethecats]

One player makes no difference? The Bulls lost Michael Jordan for two seasons and couldn't win a championship. Between winning three on either side of that. But, yeah, one player doesn't make any difference. The Bulls just weren't that good to begin with and those titles they won with Jordan were just a fluke. Got it.

I get the gist of your opinion, but this is a pretty big stretch of a comparison.

First, basketball is WAY different than football in which one player CAN make all the difference in the world. There are only 5 guys playing at once. Those Bulls teams were deep, but even they really only had about an 8-9 man rotation that played significant minutes.

Secondly, you literally took the best player to ever play the game of basketball to make a case of how they didn't win when he was gone. Is that really even in the same ballpark of losing a freshman QB starting his 4th game of his career on a football team that fields 22 starters and not 5 starters?

[iaafan]

The way we were manhandled on both lines was the difference in the game. It was so obvious to see.

I don't think NDSU's DL manhandled MSU's OL. I thought it looked a lot like the SDSU DL vs. MSU OL.

I suppose in comparison to what their OL did to our DL you are correct. It wasn't that type of dominance. Though I still maintain they gave our OL fits all game, and I believe held us below our average in about every offensive category. Thus I feel that we need to be much better on the OL if we play NDSU again and expect to win.

Ndsu wasn’t even as good as UM in manhandling our OL. But Mellott didn’t play vs UM so I guess that’s not a fair … oh, wait…

I don't know what that proves IAA. You're comparing the two teams that dominated us the most this season and saying that one of them manhandled us more than the other. I agree with you. The gris DL manhandled us more than even NDSU did. I don't think that's where we want the bar to be if we expect to get the Bison monkey off our back.

So I guess I agree with you. If we don't want to get dominated like we did against the Bison and gris, it all starts up front on both sides of the ball. I really don't see how this is a crazy take?

I was trying to subtly lead you into the fact that our OL got “manhandled” by WSU and UM and not SDSU or SHSU, who are equally good defensively in hopes that you’d see who was playing QB in those games.