national championship caliber team...? It’s close

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onceacat
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Re: national championship caliber team...? It’s close

Post by onceacat » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:39 am

Cledus wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:14 am
coochorama42 wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:04 am
Cledus wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:24 pm
The game plan was to control the clock. We did that. Very lopsided time of possession in our favor. Cody Kirk had something like 140 yards. So every time I see someone say we’ve just to keep the ball out of their hands i roll my eyes so hard it makes a noise.
I think the argument makes much more sense when you have an elite defense squaring off against an elite offense. At the end of the day they still need to stop that offense, but wearing down the clock - while you can - on offense is never a bad thing when the opposing offense is elite. I'm not talking about three yards and a cloud of dust here, but there's also no reason to rush to the line of scrimmage on 2nd and 2.

There are extreme counter-examples for every strategy - even when executed perfectly. I believe you are citing one of them. Nonetheless, it is a very valid concern. If the offensive gameplan is as conservative against EWU as it was against WSU, I wouldn't expect a positive outcome.
Under Ash, 2012 was the high water mark for the defense. It got worse every year until he was let go. I think this year's team has the chops to slow down, and dare I say stop, Eastern. And by stop, I mean hold to 30 or less. If the griz got a couple picks our boys would absolutely get at least two, probably more.

To beat Eastern, the game plan can't follow any conventional wisdom. That's essentially the point I was trying to make because most posters will always fall back on time of possession for some weird reason.
Yeah, EWUs whole concept is that TOP doesn’t matter. They are going to score quickly & also have a bunch of 3 & outs. The bottom end of the TOP stat is stacked with top 25 teams….probably the most meaningless stat in football other than tackles.

EWU goes cold for stretches. Game plan has to be to score whe the EWU O goes cold….Limit possessions, yes…but by having long drives & finishing.

Ultimately, you can’t count on beating the Eagles based on your D…you need to have a plan to score about 40.

The offense we saw in Weber isn’t going to score 40. The offense we saw the 5 games prior might pull it off.

The other thing they do exceptionally we is create turnovers. They’ll give up a ton of yards, but they have a knack of creating takeaways in high leverage situations.



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Re: national championship caliber team...? It’s close

Post by CelticCat » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:52 am

I think the Cats go as far as McKay and the OL can take them.


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Re: national championship caliber team...? It’s close

Post by FYI » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:23 am

mslacatfan wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:48 pm
This team is close to being able to push for a national championship this year. Not there yet, but with some improvements the back half of the season, it can happen.

Defense- elite. Few teams in the country can say they have a better Defense. Definitely good enough to compete for the chipper. I see them only getting better as the season goes along.

Special teams- definitely above average, good enough. Both the kickers are outstanding. Would like to see some improvements in the return game. Kickoff and punt coverage has been incredible. Overall, good enough.

Offense- maybe slightly below average. Pretty conservative and predictable, with questionable play calling at times. The loss of Conner Wood is being felt on the OL. McKay needs to keep showing improvement. Tons of talent across the board, ifanse might be the best back in the country... coaches and players just need to keep improving.

So yeah... It all boils down to the offense. We can’t have performances like the Weber game if we expect to see a deep playoff run (our defense can only do so much against the best teams).

We are really close to fielding a team that can beat anyone. So excited to see how far this team can go! Go cats!
With what our offense was given to run vs. Weber I'm afraid I'm going to sound like Wyoming followers the last few years..."total lack of imagination". The point came when Infanse was getting hammered running between the tackles and the solution? Line up and try the same thing again.
The Cats will probably be able to do that again against ISU and get away with it like they did vs. Drake, San Diego and Poly...but not the griz.
Please coach, spread it around.



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Re: national championship caliber team...? It’s close

Post by catatac » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:52 am

Cledus wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:40 pm
catatac wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:34 pm
CatsNoMatterWhat wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:21 pm
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:58 pm
We still have no idea how close we are to being national championship caliber. We'll know on November 6th.
Bingo. We will know then if we are a "high level FCS team" or a true contender.
Yep, I agree here. However, I'm going to drop this factoid here. 2010 - Cats 30, EWU 7. EWU won the national championship that year.
I was just thinking about that game today, but I couldn’t remember what year it was. I think I thought that was 2012. 2013 was the year we executed our game plan perfectly and they still scored on every single drive.
If you're talking about the game where EWU had exactly 8 possessions, ended up with 8 Touchdowns... yes that was incredibly painful to watch. Zero punts, zero field goals. Disgusting.


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Re: national championship caliber team...? It’s close

Post by profisme » Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:33 am

catatac wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:52 am
Cledus wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:40 pm
catatac wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:34 pm
CatsNoMatterWhat wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:21 pm
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:58 pm
We still have no idea how close we are to being national championship caliber. We'll know on November 6th.
Bingo. We will know then if we are a "high level FCS team" or a true contender.
Yep, I agree here. However, I'm going to drop this factoid here. 2010 - Cats 30, EWU 7. EWU won the national championship that year.
I was just thinking about that game today, but I couldn’t remember what year it was. I think I thought that was 2012. 2013 was the year we executed our game plan perfectly and they still scored on every single drive.
If you're talking about the game where EWU had exactly 8 possessions, ended up with 8 Touchdowns... yes that was incredibly painful to watch. Zero punts, zero field goals. Disgusting.
Their last possession they ran out the clock. That was the only possession they didn’t score on. That game was disgusting to watch.


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Re: national championship caliber team...? It’s close

Post by BelligerentBobcat » Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:50 am

I think every championship caliber team has an explosive, dynamic offensive player that can flip the field at some point in the game. I don’t really think we have that player right now.

The defense is absolutely championship caliber.

We’re really close, really close. Just don’t think we’re quite there yet.



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Re: national championship caliber team...? It’s close

Post by ilovethecats » Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:10 pm

BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:50 am
I think every championship caliber team has an explosive, dynamic offensive player that can flip the field at some point in the game. I don’t really think we have that player right now.

The defense is absolutely championship caliber.

We’re really close, really close. Just don’t think we’re quite there yet.
Are you of the belief that running backs can't be that type of player? And if so is Ifanse not that type of player? Because I tend to believe he's one of the best backs in the country capable of flipping the field. Curious what your thoughts are on him.



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Re: national championship caliber team...? It’s close

Post by luckyirishguy25 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:18 pm

BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:50 am
I think every championship caliber team has an explosive, dynamic offensive player that can flip the field at some point in the game. I don’t really think we have that player right now.

The defense is absolutely championship caliber.

We’re really close, really close. Just don’t think we’re quite there yet.
I agree with this, and I think its about time maybe we let Mellot start. He's a TA mold and with many of the same skills, he's exactly the type of player you want to win Championships.



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Re: national championship caliber team...? It’s close

Post by luckyirishguy25 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:23 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:10 pm
BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:50 am
I think every championship caliber team has an explosive, dynamic offensive player that can flip the field at some point in the game. I don’t really think we have that player right now.

The defense is absolutely championship caliber.

We’re really close, really close. Just don’t think we’re quite there yet.
Are you of the belief that running backs can't be that type of player? And if so is Ifanse not that type of player? Because I tend to believe he's one of the best backs in the country capable of flipping the field. Curious what your thoughts are on him.
no offense to Ifanse, but he can't do it alone or he'd have 1200 yards already this season. Wood is showing up as a huge loss to a years past extremely well moving and blocking line. I'm not sure if they've been shuffled around too much and are having troubles with new positions, but the oline has lost a step since 2019. Ifanse is a great hole hitting back, but he lacks the vision of a onecut back that sees the middle is stuffed and can pop it outside in an instant. Elliott/Hosey is much more of a onecut back.



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Re: national championship caliber team...? It’s close

Post by BelligerentBobcat » Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:30 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:10 pm
BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:50 am
I think every championship caliber team has an explosive, dynamic offensive player that can flip the field at some point in the game. I don’t really think we have that player right now.

The defense is absolutely championship caliber.

We’re really close, really close. Just don’t think we’re quite there yet.
Are you of the belief that running backs can't be that type of player? And if so is Ifanse not that type of player? Because I tend to believe he's one of the best backs in the country capable of flipping the field. Curious what your thoughts are on him.
I think Ifanse is a great back, great player. I guess what I meant when I said flip the field is doing it one play. I don’t think Ifanse is a huge threat to do that consistently.



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Re: national championship caliber team...? It’s close

Post by Prodigal Cat » Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:30 pm

onceacat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:39 am
Cledus wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:14 am
coochorama42 wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:04 am
Cledus wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:24 pm
The game plan was to control the clock. We did that. Very lopsided time of possession in our favor. Cody Kirk had something like 140 yards. So every time I see someone say we’ve just to keep the ball out of their hands i roll my eyes so hard it makes a noise.
I think the argument makes much more sense when you have an elite defense squaring off against an elite offense. At the end of the day they still need to stop that offense, but wearing down the clock - while you can - on offense is never a bad thing when the opposing offense is elite. I'm not talking about three yards and a cloud of dust here, but there's also no reason to rush to the line of scrimmage on 2nd and 2.

There are extreme counter-examples for every strategy - even when executed perfectly. I believe you are citing one of them. Nonetheless, it is a very valid concern. If the offensive gameplan is as conservative against EWU as it was against WSU, I wouldn't expect a positive outcome.
Under Ash, 2012 was the high water mark for the defense. It got worse every year until he was let go. I think this year's team has the chops to slow down, and dare I say stop, Eastern. And by stop, I mean hold to 30 or less. If the griz got a couple picks our boys would absolutely get at least two, probably more.

To beat Eastern, the game plan can't follow any conventional wisdom. That's essentially the point I was trying to make because most posters will always fall back on time of possession for some weird reason.
Yeah, EWUs whole concept is that TOP doesn’t matter. They are going to score quickly & also have a bunch of 3 & outs. The bottom end of the TOP stat is stacked with top 25 teams….probably the most meaningless stat in football other than tackles.

EWU goes cold for stretches. Game plan has to be to score whe the EWU O goes cold….Limit possessions, yes…but by having long drives & finishing.

Ultimately, you can’t count on beating the Eagles based on your D…you need to have a plan to score about 40.

The offense we saw in Weber isn’t going to score 40. The offense we saw the 5 games prior might pull it off.

The other thing they do exceptionally we is create turnovers. They’ll give up a ton of yards, but they have a knack of creating takeaways in high leverage situations.
If EB3 has a weakness and i'm not sure this is exactly a weakness, is he almost never gives up on plays. He tries to scramble around and make something happen and at times takes really bad sacks or throws a dangerous ball. Now most of the time it works out because the dude is so good that he hits the crazy throw or makes up the 2nd and 20+ with big plays. However I believe he hasn't played a defense that has the speed the Cats do in the pass rush. He might be able to run away from most LB's but not Troy or DH. I think we create at least a few TO's in that game or get them in yardage situations that they can't overcome.

That said your right. The offense has to make good on those extra possessions and I don't mean FG's like last friday. We need to score in the high 30's at minimum and really high 40's to have a chance. Eags gonna get theirs


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Re: national championship caliber team...? It’s close

Post by catatac » Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:41 pm

luckyirishguy25 wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:18 pm
BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:50 am
I think every championship caliber team has an explosive, dynamic offensive player that can flip the field at some point in the game. I don’t really think we have that player right now.

The defense is absolutely championship caliber.

We’re really close, really close. Just don’t think we’re quite there yet.
I agree with this, and I think its about time maybe we let Mellot start. He's a TA mold and with many of the same skills, he's exactly the type of player you want to win Championships.
Start at what position?


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Re: national championship caliber team...? It’s close

Post by BobcatDel » Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:26 pm

BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:30 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:10 pm
BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:50 am
I think every championship caliber team has an explosive, dynamic offensive player that can flip the field at some point in the game. I don’t really think we have that player right now.

The defense is absolutely championship caliber.

We’re really close, really close. Just don’t think we’re quite there yet.
Are you of the belief that running backs can't be that type of player? And if so is Ifanse not that type of player? Because I tend to believe he's one of the best backs in the country capable of flipping the field. Curious what your thoughts are on him.
I think Ifanse is a great back, great player. I guess what I meant when I said flip the field is doing it one play. I don’t think Ifanse is a huge threat to do that consistently.
How long is flipping the field to you? If you throw out Drake and Cal Poly games where he was used only sparingly, he had long runs of 29,46,21,18,74 yards this season already…. I call them field flipping….but that’s my opinion. The 18 yard gain was against Weber. Beyond that he can catch out of the backfield and often results in large gains in games they insert that play. Each of the 3 seasons he has played he has had runs over 60 yards in the season. Averaging close to 6 ypc across 3 seasons is not field flipping? Contrary to what was said above if you listen to the better folks around they will tell you one thing he does well is make only one cut and then full ahead….no dancing.

I hate to even mention this for the dreaded jinx….he doesn’t cost you a field flip either…..based on the stat sheet I was looking at do you know in 3 years he has never cost the team a turnover…that’s zero fumbles until this year when he fumbled one into the end zone that Bobcats recovered. I still don’t know how that was scored because it looked like he was in the end zone. But that’s a stat I find hard to believe for a guy that runs as hard as he does and takes the shots he does by both dlines and defensive backfields.

Oh well, guess you might be looking for Barry Sanders but I will take Isiah Ifanse to “flip the field” at the FCS level….but that’s just me.



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Re: national championship caliber team...? It’s close

Post by BelligerentBobcat » Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:54 pm

BobcatDel wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:26 pm
BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:30 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:10 pm
BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:50 am
I think every championship caliber team has an explosive, dynamic offensive player that can flip the field at some point in the game. I don’t really think we have that player right now.

The defense is absolutely championship caliber.

We’re really close, really close. Just don’t think we’re quite there yet.
Are you of the belief that running backs can't be that type of player? And if so is Ifanse not that type of player? Because I tend to believe he's one of the best backs in the country capable of flipping the field. Curious what your thoughts are on him.
I think Ifanse is a great back, great player. I guess what I meant when I said flip the field is doing it one play. I don’t think Ifanse is a huge threat to do that consistently.
How long is flipping the field to you? If you throw out Drake and Cal Poly games where he was used only sparingly, he had long runs of 29,46,21,18,74 yards this season already…. I call them field flipping….but that’s my opinion. The 18 yard gain was against Weber. Beyond that he can catch out of the backfield and often results in large gains in games they insert that play. Each of the 3 seasons he has played he has had runs over 60 yards in the season. Averaging close to 6 ypc across 3 seasons is not field flipping? Contrary to what was said above if you listen to the better folks around they will tell you one thing he does well is make only one cut and then full ahead….no dancing.

I hate to even mention this for the dreaded jinx….he doesn’t cost you a field flip either…..based on the stat sheet I was looking at do you know in 3 years he has never cost the team a turnover…that’s zero fumbles until this year when he fumbled one into the end zone that Bobcats recovered. I still don’t know how that was scored because it looked like he was in the end zone. But that’s a stat I find hard to believe for a guy that runs as hard as he does and takes the shots he does by both dlines and defensive backfields.

Oh well, guess you might be looking for Barry Sanders but I will take Isiah Ifanse to “flip the field” at the FCS level….but that’s just me.
I don’t think I’m explaining myself well.

I’m not running down Ifanse at all. He’s a tremendous RB. He’s just not what I view as a very explosive playmaker. He just doesn’t have great long speed. He doesn’t outrun angles. He’s still obviously a great back. I’m just saying I think a championship team needs at least one player that can do that, and I’m not sure we do (although Brown and Andrew Patterson could develop into that with time). And honestly, what we do against Northern Colorado, schools like that, I just don’t care about. They suck. Who’s the guy who can turn nothing into a great play against a good playoff team? That’s what I’m talking about. Are those players common? Not really, but being a national championship caliber team NEEDS uncommon players. We have them on defense, just not sure we do on offense.



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Re: national championship caliber team...? It’s close

Post by luckyirishguy25 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:54 pm

catatac wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:41 pm
luckyirishguy25 wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:18 pm
BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:50 am
I think every championship caliber team has an explosive, dynamic offensive player that can flip the field at some point in the game. I don’t really think we have that player right now.

The defense is absolutely championship caliber.

We’re really close, really close. Just don’t think we’re quite there yet.
I agree with this, and I think its about time maybe we let Mellot start. He's a TA mold and with many of the same skills, he's exactly the type of player you want to win Championships.
Start at what position?
QB of course



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Re: national championship caliber team...? It’s close

Post by Cataholic » Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:05 pm

BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:30 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:10 pm
BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:50 am
I think every championship caliber team has an explosive, dynamic offensive player that can flip the field at some point in the game. I don’t really think we have that player right now.

The defense is absolutely championship caliber.

We’re really close, really close. Just don’t think we’re quite there yet.
Are you of the belief that running backs can't be that type of player? And if so is Ifanse not that type of player? Because I tend to believe he's one of the best backs in the country capable of flipping the field. Curious what your thoughts are on him.
I think Ifanse is a great back, great player. I guess what I meant when I said flip the field is doing it one play. I don’t think Ifanse is a huge threat to do that consistently.
Ifanse is 5th in the FCS in yards rushed. He is 16th in all of Division 1. He also only played portions of 4 games (Drake, San Diego, UNC and Cal Poly). He has runs of 74, 46, 29 and multiple 20’s…. Almost every game he pops a 20 yarder with Cal Poly, Drake and Weber (18 yarder) being the exceptions.

I really don’t understand why some people work so hard to discount the quality of our team. Just sit back, enjoy the ride and brag a little.



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Re: national championship caliber team...? It’s close

Post by BelligerentBobcat » Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:32 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:05 pm
BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:30 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:10 pm
BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:50 am
I think every championship caliber team has an explosive, dynamic offensive player that can flip the field at some point in the game. I don’t really think we have that player right now.

The defense is absolutely championship caliber.

We’re really close, really close. Just don’t think we’re quite there yet.
Are you of the belief that running backs can't be that type of player? And if so is Ifanse not that type of player? Because I tend to believe he's one of the best backs in the country capable of flipping the field. Curious what your thoughts are on him.
I think Ifanse is a great back, great player. I guess what I meant when I said flip the field is doing it one play. I don’t think Ifanse is a huge threat to do that consistently.
Ifanse is 5th in the FCS in yards rushed. He is 16th in all of Division 1. He also only played portions of 4 games (Drake, San Diego, UNC and Cal Poly). He has runs of 74, 46, 29 and multiple 20’s…. Almost every game he pops a 20 yarder with Cal Poly, Drake and Weber (18 yarder) being the exceptions.

I really don’t understand why some people work so hard to discount the quality of our team. Just sit back, enjoy the ride and brag a little.
I never said anything to say Ifanse isn’t great. Multiple times in this thread I’ve said how fantastic he is. But there are certain things he isn’t! And that’s okay!

Literally all I’m saying is that I don’t think the offense has an explosive player who can flip the field against a good team. That’s it. I just don’t see how that’s discounting anybody.



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Re: national championship caliber team...? It’s close

Post by PapaG » Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:49 pm

luckyirishguy25 wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:18 pm
BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:50 am
I think every championship caliber team has an explosive, dynamic offensive player that can flip the field at some point in the game. I don’t really think we have that player right now.

The defense is absolutely championship caliber.

We’re really close, really close. Just don’t think we’re quite there yet.
I agree with this, and I think its about time maybe we let Mellot start. He's a TA mold and with many of the same skills, he's exactly the type of player you want to win Championships.
This post about starting Mellot must be sarcasm. Right? Right! He’s a smaller version of Andersen and hasn’t thrown a pass in a game since Butte, yet you want to replace a very efficient QB who runs an offense that rarely turns the ball over. Wow.


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Re: national championship caliber team...? It’s close

Post by PapaG » Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:54 pm

luckyirishguy25 wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:54 pm
catatac wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:41 pm
luckyirishguy25 wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:18 pm
BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:50 am
I think every championship caliber team has an explosive, dynamic offensive player that can flip the field at some point in the game. I don’t really think we have that player right now.

The defense is absolutely championship caliber.

We’re really close, really close. Just don’t think we’re quite there yet.
I agree with this, and I think its about time maybe we let Mellot start. He's a TA mold and with many of the same skills, he's exactly the type of player you want to win Championships.
Start at what position?
QB of course
Hahaha! Now you’re just trolling. In what world does benching McKay make sense? Mellot at RB on some split sets with Ifanse, I’m game. Or even give him some practice reps in the slot at WR and see how it goes.


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Re: national championship caliber team...? It’s close

Post by Marana CAT » Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:59 pm

luckyirishguy25 wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:23 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:10 pm
BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:50 am
I think every championship caliber team has an explosive, dynamic offensive player that can flip the field at some point in the game. I don’t really think we have that player right now.

The defense is absolutely championship caliber.

We’re really close, really close. Just don’t think we’re quite there yet.
Are you of the belief that running backs can't be that type of player? And if so is Ifanse not that type of player? Because I tend to believe he's one of the best backs in the country capable of flipping the field. Curious what your thoughts are on him.
no offense to Ifanse, but he can't do it alone or he'd have 1200 yards already this season. Wood is showing up as a huge loss to a years past extremely well moving and blocking line. I'm not sure if they've been shuffled around too much and are having troubles with new positions, but the oline has lost a step since 2019. Ifanse is a great hole hitting back, but he lacks the vision of a onecut back that sees the middle is stuffed and can pop it outside in an instant. Elliott/Hosey is much more of a onecut back.
Back to back losses in 2019 to Sac State and UND the Cats averaged 180 yards both in rushing and passing in those 2 games. Sure 150 yards rushing and 80 yards passing against Weber is well below average however we beat Weber. This O-line is solid and will get better each game. I like what I see and #22 is going to have some big games against EWU and the griz.


"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but I will kick you repeatedly in the balls, Gardocki!"

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