The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Weber st gameday thread

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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Weber st gameday thread

Post by catatac » Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:39 pm

Regarding play calling, mid field 4th and 2 with 2 ish minutes left, we go for it and did not make it. Ya, I get it - it's a bit aggressive and if you make that conversion you probably seal the game but don't you gotta punt there the way our D was playing? perfect distance to get them pinned deep.


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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Weber st gameday thread

Post by BelligerentBobcat » Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:56 pm

catatac wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:39 pm
Regarding play calling, mid field 4th and 2 with 2 ish minutes left, we go for it and did not make it. Ya, I get it - it's a bit aggressive and if you make that conversion you probably seal the game but don't you gotta punt there the way our D was playing? perfect distance to get them pinned deep.
I think the way the defense was playing, you’re not worried if they get the ball at midfield. They’d been doing it all second half.

If they get that first down, the game is over. It was an aggressive play call, I’m not going to complain too much about it.



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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Weber st gameday thread

Post by HelenaCat » Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:30 pm

catatac wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:38 pm
I think the UM defense at full strength is probably at the top of the Big Sky. But, they actually are pretty banged up, injured, sick right now and I doubt they get back to full strength this season. MSU has the best D in the conference, followed by Weber.
The griz D has been nicked up a bit, but why does everyone say they are so banged up? We have lost a starting tackle, began the year without a 4 year starter at CB, lost another starting CB, and maybe a 3rd starting CB. Also lost our No. 3 LB. Who have the griz lost on defense for any length of time?



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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Weber st gameday thread

Post by CelticCat » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:01 pm

golden77 wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:14 pm
Don't they teach you in grade 6 that you can't block below the waist
I saw this play when I rewatched the game and got fired up about it because I thought it was a perfectly legal block. Dove into the rule changes about chop blocks and saw nothing that would indicate it would be a penalty. He didn't block back towards the original spot of the snap, or back to his goal line, he did it straight on to the defender, and he wasn't 5 yards outside of the line of scrimmage. I think it was a bad call.
Last edited by CelticCat on Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Weber st gameday thread

Post by Montanabob » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:03 pm

CelticCat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:01 pm
golden77 wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:14 pm
Don't they teach you in grade 6 that you can't block below the waist
I saw this play when I rewatched the game and got fired up about it because I thought it was a perfectly legal block. Dove into the rule changes about chop blocks and saw nothing that would indicate it would be a penalty. He didn't block back towards the original spot of the snack, or back to his goal line, he did it straight on to the defender, and he wasn't 5 yards outside of the line of scrimmage. I think it was a bad call.
How far down field was he. They changed the rule so no down field blocks below the waist, period.


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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Weber st gameday thread

Post by CelticCat » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:06 pm

Montanabob wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:03 pm
CelticCat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:01 pm
golden77 wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:14 pm
Don't they teach you in grade 6 that you can't block below the waist
I saw this play when I rewatched the game and got fired up about it because I thought it was a perfectly legal block. Dove into the rule changes about chop blocks and saw nothing that would indicate it would be a penalty. He didn't block back towards the original spot of the snack, or back to his goal line, he did it straight on to the defender, and he wasn't 5 yards outside of the line of scrimmage. I think it was a bad call.
How far down field was he. They changed the rule so no down field blocks below the waist, period.
He was within 5 yards of the neutral zone which is what the rule book says. I accidentally said line of scrimmage. He was within 5 yards.


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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Weber st gameday thread

Post by CelticCat » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:07 pm

Basing my research on this article:

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... -rule-ncaa

That's from 2018 and as far as I can tell there is nothing else new since then, that would be a fast rule change after a rule change if they had a new one already. But looked legal to me.


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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Weber st gameday thread

Post by BleedingBLue » Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:11 pm

CelticCat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:07 pm
Basing my research on this article:

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... -rule-ncaa

That's from 2018 and as far as I can tell there is nothing else new since then, that would be a fast rule change after a rule change if they had a new one already. But looked legal to me.
You are 100% right. During the game I started yelling as soon as the flag was thrown because I knew why it was thrown and also know its only a penalty in High School at the point the block was made. The officials should have got together on that and picked up the flag.



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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Weber st gameday thread

Post by Montanabob » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:09 pm

BleedingBLue wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:11 pm
CelticCat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:07 pm
Basing my research on this article:

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... -rule-ncaa

That's from 2018 and as far as I can tell there is nothing else new since then, that would be a fast rule change after a rule change if they had a new one already. But looked legal to me.
You are 100% right. During the game I started yelling as soon as the flag was thrown because I knew why it was thrown and also know its only a penalty in High School at the point the block was made. The officials should have got together on that and picked up the flag.
So the actual rule. Was the ball outside the tackle?

Rule 9-1-6
Blocking Below the Waist
ARTICLE 6. a. Team A prior to a change of team possession:
1. Linemen with initial position completely inside the tackle box may legally block below the waist inside the
tackle box until the ball leaves the tackle box. All other Team A players are allowed to block below the waist
only if the force of the initial contact is directed from the front. “Directed from the front” is defined as within
the clock-face region between “10 o’clock and 2 o’clock” forward of the area of concentration of the player
being blocked.
Exceptions are given in paragraphs 2, 3 and 4.
2. Team A players may not block below the waist when the block occurs 5 yards or more beyond the neutral
zone.
3. Players in motion at the snap or lined up outside the tackle box may not block below the waist
toward the original position of the ball at the snap. until the ball carrier is clearly beyond the neutral zone.
4. Once the ball has left the tackle box a player may not block below the waist toward his own end line.
Rationale: This change will eliminate blocks below the waist in the open field much like kickoff and change of
possession plays. Eliminating blocks by Team A (offense) that occur 5 yards or more will also match the area that is
allowed by Team B (defense) for blocking below the waist and balance offense and defense. Additionally, other than
offensive players lined up on the line and in the tackle box, all blocks below the waist must be made from the front.
This change will allow the defender to see the block coming and defend himself. This also cleans up the rules
language and make it much easier for players, coaches and officials to understand, execute and coach blocking
below the waist.


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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Weber st gameday thread

Post by CelticCat » Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:24 am

Montanabob wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:09 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:11 pm
CelticCat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:07 pm
Basing my research on this article:

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... -rule-ncaa

That's from 2018 and as far as I can tell there is nothing else new since then, that would be a fast rule change after a rule change if they had a new one already. But looked legal to me.
You are 100% right. During the game I started yelling as soon as the flag was thrown because I knew why it was thrown and also know its only a penalty in High School at the point the block was made. The officials should have got together on that and picked up the flag.
So the actual rule. Was the ball outside the tackle?

Rule 9-1-6
Blocking Below the Waist
ARTICLE 6. a. Team A prior to a change of team possession:
1. Linemen with initial position completely inside the tackle box may legally block below the waist inside the
tackle box until the ball leaves the tackle box. All other Team A players are allowed to block below the waist
only if the force of the initial contact is directed from the front. “Directed from the front” is defined as within
the clock-face region between “10 o’clock and 2 o’clock” forward of the area of concentration of the player
being blocked.
Exceptions are given in paragraphs 2, 3 and 4.
2. Team A players may not block below the waist when the block occurs 5 yards or more beyond the neutral
zone.
3. Players in motion at the snap or lined up outside the tackle box may not block below the waist
toward the original position of the ball at the snap. until the ball carrier is clearly beyond the neutral zone.
4. Once the ball has left the tackle box a player may not block below the waist toward his own end line.
Rationale: This change will eliminate blocks below the waist in the open field much like kickoff and change of
possession plays. Eliminating blocks by Team A (offense) that occur 5 yards or more will also match the area that is
allowed by Team B (defense) for blocking below the waist and balance offense and defense. Additionally, other than
offensive players lined up on the line and in the tackle box, all blocks below the waist must be made from the front.
This change will allow the defender to see the block coming and defend himself. This also cleans up the rules
language and make it much easier for players, coaches and officials to understand, execute and coach blocking
below the waist.
There is still nothing in there that Willie did. The ball was outside the tackle box but that doesn't matter. It was within 5 yards of the neutral zone, it was directed at the front of the defender, and it was not back towards the original position of the ball or towards his own end line.


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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Weber st gameday thread

Post by 083190 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:03 am

Bad call! The official threw the flag because he watched where the defender came from, not where it happened.



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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Weber st gameday thread

Post by Montanabob » Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:10 am

CelticCat wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:24 am
Montanabob wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:09 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:11 pm
CelticCat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:07 pm
Basing my research on this article:

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... -rule-ncaa

That's from 2018 and as far as I can tell there is nothing else new since then, that would be a fast rule change after a rule change if they had a new one already. But looked legal to me.
You are 100% right. During the game I started yelling as soon as the flag was thrown because I knew why it was thrown and also know its only a penalty in High School at the point the block was made. The officials should have got together on that and picked up the flag.
So the actual rule. Was the ball outside the tackle?

Rule 9-1-6
Blocking Below the Waist
ARTICLE 6. a. Team A prior to a change of team possession:
1. Linemen with initial position completely inside the tackle box may legally block below the waist inside the
tackle box until the ball leaves the tackle box. All other Team A players are allowed to block below the waist
only if the force of the initial contact is directed from the front. “Directed from the front” is defined as within
the clock-face region between “10 o’clock and 2 o’clock” forward of the area of concentration of the player
being blocked.
Exceptions are given in paragraphs 2, 3 and 4.
2. Team A players may not block below the waist when the block occurs 5 yards or more beyond the neutral
zone.
3. Players in motion at the snap or lined up outside the tackle box may not block below the waist
toward the original position of the ball at the snap. until the ball carrier is clearly beyond the neutral zone.
4. Once the ball has left the tackle box a player may not block below the waist toward his own end line.
Rationale: This change will eliminate blocks below the waist in the open field much like kickoff and change of
possession plays. Eliminating blocks by Team A (offense) that occur 5 yards or more will also match the area that is
allowed by Team B (defense) for blocking below the waist and balance offense and defense. Additionally, other than
offensive players lined up on the line and in the tackle box, all blocks below the waist must be made from the front.
This change will allow the defender to see the block coming and defend himself. This also cleans up the rules
language and make it much easier for players, coaches and officials to understand, execute and coach blocking
below the waist.
There is still nothing in there that Willie did. The ball was outside the tackle box but that doesn't matter. It was within 5 yards of the neutral zone, it was directed at the front of the defender, and it was not back towards the original position of the ball or towards his own end line.
So read the rule, 4 specifically. If he was outside the tackle box, the penalty is automatic.


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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Weber st gameday thread

Post by BleedingBLue » Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:14 am

Montanabob wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:10 am
CelticCat wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:24 am
Montanabob wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:09 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:11 pm
CelticCat wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:07 pm
Basing my research on this article:

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... -rule-ncaa

That's from 2018 and as far as I can tell there is nothing else new since then, that would be a fast rule change after a rule change if they had a new one already. But looked legal to me.
You are 100% right. During the game I started yelling as soon as the flag was thrown because I knew why it was thrown and also know its only a penalty in High School at the point the block was made. The officials should have got together on that and picked up the flag.
So the actual rule. Was the ball outside the tackle?

Rule 9-1-6
Blocking Below the Waist
ARTICLE 6. a. Team A prior to a change of team possession:
1. Linemen with initial position completely inside the tackle box may legally block below the waist inside the
tackle box until the ball leaves the tackle box. All other Team A players are allowed to block below the waist
only if the force of the initial contact is directed from the front. “Directed from the front” is defined as within
the clock-face region between “10 o’clock and 2 o’clock” forward of the area of concentration of the player
being blocked.
Exceptions are given in paragraphs 2, 3 and 4.
2. Team A players may not block below the waist when the block occurs 5 yards or more beyond the neutral
zone.
3. Players in motion at the snap or lined up outside the tackle box may not block below the waist
toward the original position of the ball at the snap. until the ball carrier is clearly beyond the neutral zone.
4. Once the ball has left the tackle box a player may not block below the waist toward his own end line.
Rationale: This change will eliminate blocks below the waist in the open field much like kickoff and change of
possession plays. Eliminating blocks by Team A (offense) that occur 5 yards or more will also match the area that is
allowed by Team B (defense) for blocking below the waist and balance offense and defense. Additionally, other than
offensive players lined up on the line and in the tackle box, all blocks below the waist must be made from the front.
This change will allow the defender to see the block coming and defend himself. This also cleans up the rules
language and make it much easier for players, coaches and officials to understand, execute and coach blocking
below the waist.
There is still nothing in there that Willie did. The ball was outside the tackle box but that doesn't matter. It was within 5 yards of the neutral zone, it was directed at the front of the defender, and it was not back towards the original position of the ball or towards his own end line.
So read the rule, 4 specifically. If he was outside the tackle box, the penalty is automatic.
No that's not the rule. He may not block below the waist toward his own end line. He didn't do that. His own end line was behind him, he wasn't blocking back toward it. Perfectly legal block.



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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Weber st gameday thread

Post by TomCat88 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:01 am

catatac wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:39 pm
Regarding play calling, mid field 4th and 2 with 2 ish minutes left, we go for it and did not make it. Ya, I get it - it's a bit aggressive and if you make that conversion you probably seal the game but don't you gotta punt there the way our D was playing? perfect distance to get them pinned deep.
I think you also need to factor in that Rasheed is returning the punt. That the MSU punter is a freshman, a good one, but a frosh nonetheless. Their only TD was a 97-yard drive, which is just weird. I think those first two were probably factored in by the coaches. Even when you do, I still think you punt there.

The play probably would've worked, except the WSU DT blew it up (similar to Benson at UM in 2018) and pushed back an OG into the running lane. Weber has great DTs (another thing the coaches probably factored in), Benson has a lot of competition there.


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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Weber st gameday thread

Post by DriscollCat » Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:24 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:01 am
catatac wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:39 pm
Regarding play calling, mid field 4th and 2 with 2 ish minutes left, we go for it and did not make it. Ya, I get it - it's a bit aggressive and if you make that conversion you probably seal the game but don't you gotta punt there the way our D was playing? perfect distance to get them pinned deep.
I think you also need to factor in that Rasheed is returning the punt. That the MSU punter is a freshman, a good one, but a frosh nonetheless. Their only TD was a 97-yard drive, which is just weird. I think those first two were probably factored in by the coaches. Even when you do, I still think you punt there.

The play probably would've worked, except the WSU DT blew it up (similar to Benson at UM in 2018) and pushed back an OG into the running lane. Weber has great DTs (another thing the coaches probably factored in), Benson has a lot of competition there.
Thank you for pointing this out. I was with Catatac. I couldn’t understand why you would be so careful not to turn the ball over, only to take a risk with the 4th down. Shaheed being the hidden factor I hadn’t accounted for completely changes my mind.



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