Joining the Mountain West Conference

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Cat Grad
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Re: Joining the Mountain West Conference

Post by Cat Grad » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:34 am

This is significant. NDSU playing EWU in the Twin Cities.

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Re: Joining the Mountain West Conference

Post by Team10 » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:42 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:06 pm
Montanabob wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:20 am
Cledus wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:23 am
Purrfection Cat wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:09 am
With all the conference realignments I think it is a real possibility that both Montana schools are going to get an invite. MSUs trajectory has been going up for some time in academics athletics enrollment and research and endowment dollars. I would like to invite a discussion on what this would look like.
In the past, I've been violently opposed to moving up. But I'm warming up to it now, as long as MSU could get into a conference that's not considered garbage and if we were able to keep our rivalry with the community college to the west. I think the MWC is a decent conference. You've at least got the potential to crash some Power 5 parties.
Have you looked at the grizzly enrollment lately? They are on their way to D2.
I hadn't, but just did because you mentioned it. Spring 2021: UM 7,700, MSU 15,000. :shock:
Division isn't based on enrollment as I'm sure you're well aware, but certainly doesn't help with funding as their enrollment continues to plummet. For example, back when Miami Hurricanes were a power house with Dennis Erickson their enrollment was less than 9K. Compared to ohio state in 1995, their enrollment was nearly 55k.



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Re: Joining the Mountain West Conference

Post by Cataholic » Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:09 pm

Cledus wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:31 am
Cataholic wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:18 pm
catgrad05 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:56 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:31 pm
Purrfection Cat wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:51 pm
PHAT CAT wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:45 pm
Ms.Cruzado wants MSU to be in the Mountain West. Look around campus. Waded gets what she wants. I'll leave it at that.
You are exactly right. She has positioned the university for exactly this move. I truly believe this is our trajectory. There is so much more money in fbs tier schools. Only question is can UM keep up
There is no question that playing in a legit FBS conference (Sun Belt doesn’t count) with bigger schools will raise the profile of the university. Boise State is a great example. I am concerned about being competitive in FBS. We probably fit in well with the Mountain West both geographically and competitively. And you are right about U of M. They are currently the smallest school in the Big Sky.


Is this true or a dig? Has Missoula community college gotten that small?
True. Next smallest school is Southern Utah at 10,000 students.
I couldn't pass up the chance to make a spreadsheet and chart. :D I see someone posted a different number for MSU. I got my figures here. The difference in figures doesn't really seem to be a big deal, my picture is more about showing the scale.
Image
Thanks Cledus. The chart made me think are there any other schools attractive to the Mountain West besides MSU? From the Big Sky, maybe Davis and Weber. From other conferences, maybe NDSU, SDSU and possibly ND.



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The Butcher
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Re: Joining the Mountain West Conference

Post by The Butcher » Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:17 pm

Cat Grad wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:43 am

Heck look at Brookings, SD. Only 40 to 50 miles from Sioux Falls with a population of about 200k. Things can change dramatically in ten years and those of you raised in the Gallatin Valley as I was can attest to that fact. People are not gping to quit moving to that area anytime soon.
University of Sioux Falls has about 1,600 students compared to SDSU and USD at about 14,000. So this comparison to a lesser degree is more like MSU-Bozeman and MSU-Billings.



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Re: Joining the Mountain West Conference

Post by Cat Grad » Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:39 pm

The Butcher wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:17 pm
Cat Grad wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:43 am

Heck look at Brookings, SD. Only 40 to 50 miles from Sioux Falls with a population of about 200k. Things can change dramatically in ten years and those of you raised in the Gallatin Valley as I was can attest to that fact. People are not gping to quit moving to that area anytime soon.
University of Sioux Falls has about 1,600 students compared to SDSU and USD at about 14,000. So this comparison to a lesser degree is more like MSU-Bozeman and MSU-Billings.
Billings is 140 miles from Bozo. Sioux Falls is only 40 to 50 miles from Brookings. Not certain what the final count in the 2000 census was for Brookings but one can pretty much surmise there's better than a quarter of a million people in and around Brookings to include all the Jackrabbit alumni who live and work in Sioux Falls, about a half hour away from Brookings. SDSU is growing in stature damn near as fast as the College of Charleston. I'll also venture this: it's a community school whereas MSU? Not so much anymore.

Anyway...



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Re: Joining the Mountain West Conference

Post by TomCat88 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:03 am

Team10 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:42 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:06 pm
Montanabob wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:20 am
Cledus wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:23 am
Purrfection Cat wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:09 am
With all the conference realignments I think it is a real possibility that both Montana schools are going to get an invite. MSUs trajectory has been going up for some time in academics athletics enrollment and research and endowment dollars. I would like to invite a discussion on what this would look like.
In the past, I've been violently opposed to moving up. But I'm warming up to it now, as long as MSU could get into a conference that's not considered garbage and if we were able to keep our rivalry with the community college to the west. I think the MWC is a decent conference. You've at least got the potential to crash some Power 5 parties.
Have you looked at the grizzly enrollment lately? They are on their way to D2.
I hadn't, but just did because you mentioned it. Spring 2021: UM 7,700, MSU 15,000. :shock:
Division isn't based on enrollment as I'm sure you're well aware, but certainly doesn't help with funding as their enrollment continues to plummet. For example, back when Miami Hurricanes were a power house with Dennis Erickson their enrollment was less than 9K. Compared to ohio state in 1995, their enrollment was nearly 55k.
True. However, most schools that are small and playing with the big enrollment schools have very rigid academics/entrance and therefore get huge endowments from highly successful alumni that they churn out at a higher ratio thank larger schools. A lot of people think of Miami as a low level school because the football team was so rowdy in the 80s and 90s, but it is pretty high up and is located in ritzy Coral Gables. So, yes, you can succeed with a small enrollment (Notre Dame is also small 12,000), but in UM's case there needs to be a big activation of Dennis Washington to make that happen even on a MWC scale. UM/MSU need to sustain enrollments of 20,000 going forward to expect to get the kinds of support needed to be in a decent FBS conference.


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Re: Joining the Mountain West Conference

Post by Montanabob » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:59 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:03 am
Team10 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:42 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:06 pm
Montanabob wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:20 am
Cledus wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:23 am
Purrfection Cat wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:09 am
With all the conference realignments I think it is a real possibility that both Montana schools are going to get an invite. MSUs trajectory has been going up for some time in academics athletics enrollment and research and endowment dollars. I would like to invite a discussion on what this would look like.
In the past, I've been violently opposed to moving up. But I'm warming up to it now, as long as MSU could get into a conference that's not considered garbage and if we were able to keep our rivalry with the community college to the west. I think the MWC is a decent conference. You've at least got the potential to crash some Power 5 parties.
Have you looked at the grizzly enrollment lately? They are on their way to D2.
I hadn't, but just did because you mentioned it. Spring 2021: UM 7,700, MSU 15,000. :shock:
Division isn't based on enrollment as I'm sure you're well aware, but certainly doesn't help with funding as their enrollment continues to plummet. For example, back when Miami Hurricanes were a power house with Dennis Erickson their enrollment was less than 9K. Compared to ohio state in 1995, their enrollment was nearly 55k.
True. However, most schools that are small and playing with the big enrollment schools have very rigid academics/entrance and therefore get huge endowments from highly successful alumni that they churn out at a higher ratio thank larger schools. A lot of people think of Miami as a low level school because the football team was so rowdy in the 80s and 90s, but it is pretty high up and is located in ritzy Coral Gables. So, yes, you can succeed with a small enrollment (Notre Dame is also small 12,000), but in UM's case there needs to be a big activation of Dennis Washington to make that happen even on a MWC scale. UM/MSU need to sustain enrollments of 20,000 going forward to expect to get the kinds of support needed to be in a decent FBS conference.
What would help would be some whales to step up from the big sky and IT companies.


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Re: Joining the Mountain West Conference

Post by wapiti » Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:18 am

Cataholic wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:09 pm
Cledus wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:31 am


I couldn't pass up the chance to make a spreadsheet and chart. :D I see someone posted a different number for MSU. I got my figures here. The difference in figures doesn't really seem to be a big deal, my picture is more about showing the scale.
Image
Thanks Cledus. The chart made me think are there any other schools attractive to the Mountain West besides MSU? From the Big Sky, maybe Davis and Weber. From other conferences, maybe NDSU, SDSU and possibly ND.
But if several Big Sky schools do get invited to the Mountain West with MSU. I do not see how playing these games would increase revenue for MSU.

There may be 2 to 4 games every year that may increase revenue, but the rest of the schedule would have the same ticket sales and same revenue. Am I missing something with my reasoning. It may increase are chances of playing a truly big team every other year, but not much else. I would rather remain in the FCS and Big Sky where we would have more success on the field and get to play in a playoff. Maybe if FBS expands its playoff field to include the winner of every FBS conference I would consider it.



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Re: Joining the Mountain West Conference

Post by Cataholic » Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:47 am

wapiti wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:18 am
Cataholic wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:09 pm
Cledus wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:31 am


I couldn't pass up the chance to make a spreadsheet and chart. :D I see someone posted a different number for MSU. I got my figures here. The difference in figures doesn't really seem to be a big deal, my picture is more about showing the scale.
Image
Thanks Cledus. The chart made me think are there any other schools attractive to the Mountain West besides MSU? From the Big Sky, maybe Davis and Weber. From other conferences, maybe NDSU, SDSU and possibly ND.
But if several Big Sky schools do get invited to the Mountain West with MSU. I do not see how playing these games would increase revenue for MSU.

There may be 2 to 4 games every year that may increase revenue, but the rest of the schedule would have the same ticket sales and same revenue. Am I missing something with my reasoning. It may increase are chances of playing a truly big team every other year, but not much else. I would rather remain in the FCS and Big Sky where we would have more success on the field and get to play in a playoff. Maybe if FBS expands its playoff field to include the winner of every FBS conference I would consider it.
I am not convinced it will be good for our football program. Increased competition but not necessarily the same potential for prolonged success. However, there would be some new revenue streams to athletics, specifically from television and hopefully NCAA basketball.

I think the biggest benefit though is the increased exposure for the university as a whole by playing in a larger conference. FCS teams get back page coverage in big markets. They are rarely mentioned on newscasts or in the press. But Colorado State in the Denver area as a peer university will increase exposure to potential students. Boise State and Nevada are great examples.



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Re: Joining the Mountain West Conference

Post by MSU01 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:50 am

Cataholic wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:47 am
wapiti wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:18 am
Cataholic wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:09 pm
Cledus wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:31 am


I couldn't pass up the chance to make a spreadsheet and chart. :D I see someone posted a different number for MSU. I got my figures here. The difference in figures doesn't really seem to be a big deal, my picture is more about showing the scale.
Image
Thanks Cledus. The chart made me think are there any other schools attractive to the Mountain West besides MSU? From the Big Sky, maybe Davis and Weber. From other conferences, maybe NDSU, SDSU and possibly ND.
But if several Big Sky schools do get invited to the Mountain West with MSU. I do not see how playing these games would increase revenue for MSU.

There may be 2 to 4 games every year that may increase revenue, but the rest of the schedule would have the same ticket sales and same revenue. Am I missing something with my reasoning. It may increase are chances of playing a truly big team every other year, but not much else. I would rather remain in the FCS and Big Sky where we would have more success on the field and get to play in a playoff. Maybe if FBS expands its playoff field to include the winner of every FBS conference I would consider it.
I am not convinced it will be good for our football program. Increased competition but not necessarily the same potential for prolonged success. However, there would be some new revenue streams to athletics, specifically from television and hopefully NCAA basketball.

I think the biggest benefit though is the increased exposure for the university as a whole by playing in a larger conference. FCS teams get back page coverage in big markets. They are rarely mentioned on newscasts or in the press. But Colorado State in the Denver area as a peer university will increase exposure to potential students. Boise State and Nevada are great examples.
Well said. I think a move to the MWC would be not ideal for football, but great for the other sports and the national profile of the university.



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Re: Joining the Mountain West Conference

Post by FYI » Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:52 pm

TWENTY ONE FBS SCHOOLS WITH SMALLEST ENROLLMENT-2018. Undergrad


Tulsa 3,174
Rice 3,708
Air Force 4,413
Navy 4,576
Army 4,624
Wake Forest 4,775
Duke 6,484
Stanford 6,878
Vanderbilt 6,879
SMU 7,000
LA Monroe 7,519
Tulane 8,338
Notre Dame 8,371
Northwestern 8,425
Boston College 9,088
LA Tech 9,137
TCU 9,518
Marshall 10,020
Miami 10,368
UAB 11,128
Wyoming 13,992



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Re: Joining the Mountain West Conference

Post by Cataholic » Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:44 pm

FYI wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:52 pm
TWENTY ONE FBS SCHOOLS WITH SMALLEST ENROLLMENT-2018. Undergrad


Tulsa 3,174
Rice 3,708
Air Force 4,413
Navy 4,576
Army 4,624
Wake Forest 4,775
Duke 6,484
Stanford 6,878
Vanderbilt 6,879
SMU 7,000
LA Monroe 7,519
Tulane 8,338
Notre Dame 8,371
Northwestern 8,425
Boston College 9,088
LA Tech 9,137
TCU 9,518
Marshall 10,020
Miami 10,368
UAB 11,128
Wyoming 13,992
Wow. If you remove the graduate students at UM, they only have 5,292 students. In this list, they would be the smallest public university by a wide margin. The smallest public university is ULM at 7,519.



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Re: Joining the Mountain West Conference

Post by Hawks86 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:47 pm



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Re: Joining the Mountain West Conference

Post by Montanabob » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:16 pm

Hawks86 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:47 pm
Maybe they'll start to use relegation.


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Re: Joining the Mountain West Conference

Post by 84CatGrad » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:06 pm

FBS? No thank you. ZERO chance of EVER winning a national championship. A big year would be 10-3 and a Cheez-it Bowl invitation. Bleh. The definition of irrelevancy.

In fact, I would like to see a category between D1 and D2 hoops created for the same reason. Our best hope currently is to win the the Big Sky and beat a #3 seed in the NCAA's. That would be the absolute zenith and might happen once every 30 years. It's been 25 since we've even made the tourney.



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Re: Joining the Mountain West Conference

Post by GoCats18 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:08 pm

If the Cats move up, that’s the day I don’t renew my season tickets and probably never attend another game. If we can’t even win the Big Sky Conference or National Championship at this level, why the hell would I want to watch us go play in the Bush’s Baked Beans Bowl……absolutely the worst decision ever!!!


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Re: Joining the Mountain West Conference

Post by 84CatGrad » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:17 pm

Believe yours are undergrad figures
[/quote]

I checked his source. The numbers are all students, graduate and undergraduate, resident and nonresident.



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Re: Joining the Mountain West Conference

Post by Purrfection Cat » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:21 pm

84CatGrad wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:06 pm
FBS? No thank you. ZERO chance of EVER winning a national championship. A big year would be 10-3 and a Cheez-it Bowl invitation. Bleh. The definition of irrelevancy.

In fact, I would like to see a category between D1 and D2 hoops created for the same reason. Our best hope currently is to win the the Big Sky and beat a #3 seed in the NCAA's. That would be the absolute zenith and might happen once every 30 years. It's been 25 since we've even made the tourney.
We are irrelevant in football now. No big sky championships. We are not in the same league as NDSU and James Madison to compete. They are that much better. So what are you still hoping for?



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Re: Joining the Mountain West Conference

Post by ND0479 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:23 pm

GoCats18 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:08 pm
If the Cats move up, that’s the day I don’t renew my season tickets and probably never attend another game. If we can’t even win the Big Sky Conference or National Championship at this level, why the hell would I want to watch us go play in the Bush’s Baked Beans Bowl……absolutely the worst decision ever!!!
Haha! Tap the brakes!



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Re: Joining the Mountain West Conference

Post by 84CatGrad » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:46 pm

Purrfection Cat wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:21 pm
84CatGrad wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:06 pm
FBS? No thank you. ZERO chance of EVER winning a national championship. A big year would be 10-3 and a Cheez-it Bowl invitation. Bleh. The definition of irrelevancy.

In fact, I would like to see a category between D1 and D2 hoops created for the same reason. Our best hope currently is to win the the Big Sky and beat a #3 seed in the NCAA's. That would be the absolute zenith and might happen once every 30 years. It's been 25 since we've even made the tourney.
We are irrelevant in football now. No big sky championships. We are not in the same league as NDSU and James Madison to compete. They are that much better. So what are you still hoping for?
Reaching the national semis in the last full tournament and being two wins away from a national championship is irrelevant?



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