Really?! Did you miss the North Dakota game? I’m not sure anyone can be accused of taking plays off, but we absolutely looked lethargic in that game.catatac wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:14 pmI agree, but from the limited reports I've heard coming out of Spring - I can't say I'm 100% convinced we aren't going to take a step back in terms of physical and mental toughness, and intensity. I'm pretty sure we'll get there and certainly hope we don't take a step back but anxiously waiting to see how this team plays under Vigen. With Choate, you know 100% without a doubt once he got his players and his culture instilled... NOBODY is taking a play off in games, practice, workouts, ever. Hopefully Vigen understands that is by far the most important component at play here.kennethnoisewater wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:22 amI think it needed to be demanded for most of the time Choate was here because it was something the program needed. Now, thanks to a shift in culture and probably a different type of recruit, that toughness is just ingrained. You can't expect it to stay without some emphasis on it, but I don't think you need Choate's CONSTANT stress on it anymore. It's there. They can do enough to keep it while emphasizing things Choate maybe wasn't as good at or didn't have the chance to addressCommon Cat wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:14 amMan I have the same worry/concern! Does our toughness erode if its not being demanded(not to say it isn't? Choate made us tough, demanded it even. We can look back at certain games and attribute wins to it. You don't beat the griz 4 years in a row without it.catsrback76 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:02 pmWhile I haven't seen a practice in person in decades, and I have nothing to base this on other than conjecture, I believe the single biggest "concern" I have has to be the coaching transition and the energy level/intensity of the past regime (Choate) and the new one (Vigen). How will the calmer, cooler, and more "analytical" head coach translate into on the ground success or lack thereof? This transition is all about leadership!Common Cat wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:44 pmSo those of you who have been to practice or have seen the new regime in work- what are you seeing? Any concerns or positives?
Watching the Griz today, yes I know they're beating up on a DII school but those guys are going to play their asses off for Hauck. Vigen better have this team ready.
Transition
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Re: Transition
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Re: Transition
Regarding Vigen, I’m not the least bit worried that he’s going to try to emulate Choate.kennethnoisewater wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:33 pmI've always been one of Choate's biggest fans, but I'm with you 100%. I don't want to take away from the fact that his teams did play hard and earned wins they had no business getting because of that. But THAT level of intensity isn't a prerequisite for playing hard and tough. It will remain to be seen whether MSU has players that need that external stimulus to play hard or if they're actually capable of doing so without Jeff Choate being a master motivator. Choate could be the greatest motivator of all time, but we're crazy if we think the only teams who played hard were teams coached by guys like that.bobcat99 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:59 pmFor some reason people think Choate is the only coach at MSU to get players to play hard and tough.BleedingBLue wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:20 pmI don't understand the trepidation about Coach Vigen and his coaching style. It's not like he's come from programs that were soft and didn't play hard. Do people not think he understands that physicality and toughness are a big key to winning national championships? I don't get it.
Choate was a good coach, but he might have been an even better self promoter lol.
Having said that, I think Vigen is in trouble if he tries to BE Jeff Choate. If he tries to motivate using the same means, he'll get laughed out of the locker room. I just believe there are other ways to carry on a culture of toughness than to replicate Choate.
He has seen and been around better, if we’re being honest.
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Re: Transition
I think people worry about Vigan because Ash and his laid back "we have to watch the tape and put a hat on a hat" persona are still fresh in memory. If it wasn't for that,, having a calm coach on the sideline wouldn't give the same trepidation that some have.
We(the players AND fans) got a swagger under Choate that we didn't have under Ash.
We(the players AND fans) got a swagger under Choate that we didn't have under Ash.
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Re: Transition
Good point, yes I agree we looked terrible in that game. Not sure what that was all about but yes we looked lethargic. As you say, I don't know that it was a case of players slacking and not giving effort but whatever it was it was not good.Bocephus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:08 amReally?! Did you miss the North Dakota game? I’m not sure anyone can be accused of taking plays off, but we absolutely looked lethargic in that game.catatac wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:14 pmI agree, but from the limited reports I've heard coming out of Spring - I can't say I'm 100% convinced we aren't going to take a step back in terms of physical and mental toughness, and intensity. I'm pretty sure we'll get there and certainly hope we don't take a step back but anxiously waiting to see how this team plays under Vigen. With Choate, you know 100% without a doubt once he got his players and his culture instilled... NOBODY is taking a play off in games, practice, workouts, ever. Hopefully Vigen understands that is by far the most important component at play here.kennethnoisewater wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:22 amI think it needed to be demanded for most of the time Choate was here because it was something the program needed. Now, thanks to a shift in culture and probably a different type of recruit, that toughness is just ingrained. You can't expect it to stay without some emphasis on it, but I don't think you need Choate's CONSTANT stress on it anymore. It's there. They can do enough to keep it while emphasizing things Choate maybe wasn't as good at or didn't have the chance to addressCommon Cat wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:14 amMan I have the same worry/concern! Does our toughness erode if its not being demanded(not to say it isn't? Choate made us tough, demanded it even. We can look back at certain games and attribute wins to it. You don't beat the griz 4 years in a row without it.catsrback76 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:02 pmWhile I haven't seen a practice in person in decades, and I have nothing to base this on other than conjecture, I believe the single biggest "concern" I have has to be the coaching transition and the energy level/intensity of the past regime (Choate) and the new one (Vigen). How will the calmer, cooler, and more "analytical" head coach translate into on the ground success or lack thereof? This transition is all about leadership!Common Cat wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:44 pmSo those of you who have been to practice or have seen the new regime in work- what are you seeing? Any concerns or positives?
Watching the Griz today, yes I know they're beating up on a DII school but those guys are going to play their asses off for Hauck. Vigen better have this team ready.
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Re: Transition
Boy is this thread full of a bunch of unnecessary worrying and wringing of hands before MSU has even taken a single meaningful snap under Coach Vigen and his staff, which by the way largely consists of carryovers from Coach Choate's staff. If he's the coach to take MSU to the next level, he'll do it in his own way - not by emulating someone who decided to leave.
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Re: Transition
The fans having “swagger” is laughable and meaningless towards whether the team is good or not. If it mattered at all, the Griz would never lose a game.lutecat wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:01 amI think people worry about Vigan because Ash and his laid back "we have to watch the tape and put a hat on a hat" persona are still fresh in memory. If it wasn't for that,, having a calm coach on the sideline wouldn't give the same trepidation that some have.
We(the players AND fans) got a swagger under Choate that we didn't have under Ash.
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Re: Transition
I am in this boat- thanks for articulating it for me.lutecat wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:01 amI think people worry about Vigan because Ash and his laid back "we have to watch the tape and put a hat on a hat" persona are still fresh in memory. If it wasn't for that,, having a calm coach on the sideline wouldn't give the same trepidation that some have.
We(the players AND fans) got a swagger under Choate that we didn't have under Ash.
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Re: Transition
I didn't say it did. I just mean it feels good as a fan to have some swagger. Better way to put it is i think any little brother feel has left the building.bobcat99 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:30 pmThe fans having “swagger” is laughable and meaningless towards whether the team is good or not. If it mattered at all, the Griz would never lose a game.lutecat wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:01 amI think people worry about Vigan because Ash and his laid back "we have to watch the tape and put a hat on a hat" persona are still fresh in memory. If it wasn't for that,, having a calm coach on the sideline wouldn't give the same trepidation that some have.
We(the players AND fans) got a swagger under Choate that we didn't have under Ash.
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Re: Transition
The fans having swagger...lol. Vigen spent time with bohl, with klieman, the latter of whom always seemed the more quiet type of leader. Those teams didn't strike me as unmotivated when they rolled over everyone. We'll be as good as our talent allows, and if we don't win the national championship it won't be because coach vigen doesn't yell enough. Choate is a good coach because he got kids to buy in to his vision, and he recruited good kids for that vision. Vigen will do the same, excited to see how it goes.
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Re: Transition
While Vigen definitely seems very calm and reserved, I get the impression Coach Banks & Coach House will be/are quite the opposite.
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Re: Transition
Me swaggering into Bobcat stadium the Fall.
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Re: Transition
Whenever you replace the coach it’s tough. Probably will take a step back this year. Hard to say. Just depends on the players. Impossible to know what’s in their hearts.
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Re: Transition
I doubt it. These players have seen nothing but constant improvement in their time at MSU. That was as much their doing as the coaches.
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Re: Transition
If he maintains the player led concept, I don't see a problem with intensity.
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Re: Transition
I know Jeff Fisher's name was brought up as a HC candidate, but I had never heard he interviewed for the job? He's going to coach (advise), along with his son, at Tennessee State, where Eddie George will be HC.
http://www.si.com/nfl/titans/news/tenne ... ue-jackson
"Fisher also coached the St. Louis/Los Angeles Rams from 2012 through the first 13 games 2016 but failed to produce a winning record with that team. He has not worked as a coach since and never has been a college football coach. Earlier this year, he interviewed to be head coach at Montana State University."
http://www.si.com/nfl/titans/news/tenne ... ue-jackson
"Fisher also coached the St. Louis/Los Angeles Rams from 2012 through the first 13 games 2016 but failed to produce a winning record with that team. He has not worked as a coach since and never has been a college football coach. Earlier this year, he interviewed to be head coach at Montana State University."
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Re: Transition
That may be a fairly generous way to put it in his favor.JDoub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:09 pmI know Jeff Fisher's name was brought up as a HC candidate, but I had never heard he interviewed for the job? He's going to coach (advise), along with his son, at Tennessee State, where Eddie George will be HC.
http://www.si.com/nfl/titans/news/tenne ... ue-jackson
"Fisher also coached the St. Louis/Los Angeles Rams from 2012 through the first 13 games 2016 but failed to produce a winning record with that team. He has not worked as a coach since and never has been a college football coach. Earlier this year, he interviewed to be head coach at Montana State University."
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Re: Transition
Costello: What are you doing here?bobcat99 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:28 pmThat may be a fairly generous way to put it in his favor.JDoub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:09 pmI know Jeff Fisher's name was brought up as a HC candidate, but I had never heard he interviewed for the job? He's going to coach (advise), along with his son, at Tennessee State, where Eddie George will be HC.
http://www.si.com/nfl/titans/news/tenne ... ue-jackson
"Fisher also coached the St. Louis/Los Angeles Rams from 2012 through the first 13 games 2016 but failed to produce a winning record with that team. He has not worked as a coach since and never has been a college football coach. Earlier this year, he interviewed to be head coach at Montana State University."
Fisher: I came to interview for the HC position.
Costello: You weren't invited. Get out of here.
Fisher:
Eastwood, did not make it. Ball out! Recovered, by Montana State!! The Bobcats hold!!! The Bobcats hold!!!
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Re: Transition
NDSU has made a lot of teams look lethargic over the last decade......Bocephus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:08 amReally?! Did you miss the North Dakota game? I’m not sure anyone can be accused of taking plays off, but we absolutely looked lethargic in that game.catatac wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:14 pmI agree, but from the limited reports I've heard coming out of Spring - I can't say I'm 100% convinced we aren't going to take a step back in terms of physical and mental toughness, and intensity. I'm pretty sure we'll get there and certainly hope we don't take a step back but anxiously waiting to see how this team plays under Vigen. With Choate, you know 100% without a doubt once he got his players and his culture instilled... NOBODY is taking a play off in games, practice, workouts, ever. Hopefully Vigen understands that is by far the most important component at play here.kennethnoisewater wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:22 amI think it needed to be demanded for most of the time Choate was here because it was something the program needed. Now, thanks to a shift in culture and probably a different type of recruit, that toughness is just ingrained. You can't expect it to stay without some emphasis on it, but I don't think you need Choate's CONSTANT stress on it anymore. It's there. They can do enough to keep it while emphasizing things Choate maybe wasn't as good at or didn't have the chance to addressCommon Cat wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:14 amMan I have the same worry/concern! Does our toughness erode if its not being demanded(not to say it isn't? Choate made us tough, demanded it even. We can look back at certain games and attribute wins to it. You don't beat the griz 4 years in a row without it.catsrback76 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:02 pmWhile I haven't seen a practice in person in decades, and I have nothing to base this on other than conjecture, I believe the single biggest "concern" I have has to be the coaching transition and the energy level/intensity of the past regime (Choate) and the new one (Vigen). How will the calmer, cooler, and more "analytical" head coach translate into on the ground success or lack thereof? This transition is all about leadership!Common Cat wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:44 pmSo those of you who have been to practice or have seen the new regime in work- what are you seeing? Any concerns or positives?
Watching the Griz today, yes I know they're beating up on a DII school but those guys are going to play their asses off for Hauck. Vigen better have this team ready.
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Re: Transition
Are you talking about the coach Ash that won more football games at MSU than any other coach? THAT Coach ASH? Geez I hate it when fans talk about the Ash era as though it was a miserable failure.lutecat wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:01 amI think people worry about Vigan because Ash and his laid back "we have to watch the tape and put a hat on a hat" persona are still fresh in memory. If it wasn't for that,, having a calm coach on the sideline wouldn't give the same trepidation that some have.
We(the players AND fans) got a swagger under Choate that we didn't have under Ash.
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Re: Transition
The end of the Ash era was a miserable failure. That's what everyone is always talking about when they refer to Ash and I would think you'd know that by now. Yes he won more games than any other coach in school history but he 100% earned his legacy. He did great things for the program up until the last two years then the wheels fell off (and the doors and the seats and the steering wheel...).84CatGrad wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:50 pmAre you talking about the coach Ash that won more football games at MSU than any other coach? THAT Coach ASH? Geez I hate it when fans talk about the Ash era as though it was a miserable failure.lutecat wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:01 amI think people worry about Vigan because Ash and his laid back "we have to watch the tape and put a hat on a hat" persona are still fresh in memory. If it wasn't for that,, having a calm coach on the sideline wouldn't give the same trepidation that some have.
We(the players AND fans) got a swagger under Choate that we didn't have under Ash.
Eastwood, did not make it. Ball out! Recovered, by Montana State!! The Bobcats hold!!! The Bobcats hold!!!