Transition

[catatac]

So those of you who have been to practice or have seen the new regime in work- what are you seeing? Any concerns or positives?

While I haven't seen a practice in person in decades, and I have nothing to base this on other than conjecture, I believe the single biggest "concern" I have has to be the coaching transition and the energy level/intensity of the past regime (Choate) and the new one (Vigen). How will the calmer, cooler, and more "analytical" head coach translate into on the ground success or lack thereof? This transition is all about leadership!

Man I have the same worry/concern! Does our toughness erode if its not being demanded(not to say it isn't? Choate made us tough, demanded it even. We can look back at certain games and attribute wins to it. You don't beat the griz 4 years in a row without it.

I think it needed to be demanded for most of the time Choate was here because it was something the program needed. Now, thanks to a shift in culture and probably a different type of recruit, that toughness is just ingrained. You can't expect it to stay without some emphasis on it, but I don't think you need Choate's CONSTANT stress on it anymore. It's there. They can do enough to keep it while emphasizing things Choate maybe wasn't as good at or didn't have the chance to address

I agree, but from the limited reports I've heard coming out of Spring - I can't say I'm 100% convinced we aren't going to take a step back in terms of physical and mental toughness, and intensity. I'm pretty sure we'll get there and certainly hope we don't take a step back but anxiously waiting to see how this team plays under Vigen. With Choate, you know 100% without a doubt once he got his players and his culture instilled... NOBODY is taking a play off in games, practice, workouts, ever. Hopefully Vigen understands that is by far the most important component at play here.

Watching the Griz today, yes I know they're beating up on a DII school but those guys are going to play their asses off for Hauck. Vigen better have this team ready.

Really?! Did you miss the North Dakota game? I’m not sure anyone can be accused of taking plays off, but we absolutely looked lethargic in that game.

NDSU has made a lot of teams look lethargic over the last decade......

Bocephus was talking about the UND game, not NDSU.

[BleedingBLue]

I think people worry about Vigan because Ash and his laid back "we have to watch the tape and put a hat on a hat" persona are still fresh in memory. If it wasn't for that,, having a calm coach on the sideline wouldn't give the same trepidation that some have.

We(the players AND fans) got a swagger under Choate that we didn't have under Ash.

Are you talking about the coach Ash that won more football games at MSU than any other coach? THAT Coach ASH? Geez I hate it when fans talk about the Ash era as though it was a miserable failure.

The end of the Ash era was a miserable failure. That's what everyone is always talking about when they refer to Ash and I would think you'd know that by now. Yes he won more games than any other coach in school history but he 100% earned his legacy. He did great things for the program up until the last two years then the wheels fell off (and the doors and the seats and the steering wheel...).

Not to mention home or away in the playoffs his teams looked like they were out for a Sunday stroll, win or lose. The energy on the field and in the stadium for the Beatdown, and the Austin Peay games in 2019 were like nothing I've experienced in any other games I've attended. To be clear I'm talking about a full games worth of energy also, not just moments, or closing minutes of quarters in big wins.

[coloradocat]

I think people worry about Vigan because Ash and his laid back "we have to watch the tape and put a hat on a hat" persona are still fresh in memory. If it wasn't for that,, having a calm coach on the sideline wouldn't give the same trepidation that some have.

We(the players AND fans) got a swagger under Choate that we didn't have under Ash.

Are you talking about the coach Ash that won more football games at MSU than any other coach? THAT Coach ASH? Geez I hate it when fans talk about the Ash era as though it was a miserable failure.

The end of the Ash era was a miserable failure. That's what everyone is always talking about when they refer to Ash and I would think you'd know that by now. Yes he won more games than any other coach in school history but he 100% earned his legacy. He did great things for the program up until the last two years then the wheels fell off (and the doors and the seats and the steering wheel...).

Not to mention home or away in the playoffs his teams looked like they were out for a Sunday stroll, win or lose. The energy on the field and in the stadium for the Beatdown, and the Austin Peay games in 2019 were like nothing I've experienced in any other games I've attended. To be clear I'm talking about a full games worth of energy also, not just moments, or closing minutes of quarters in big wins.

Who here thought back to the last two Ash Cat-griz games at least once while losing their voice during the Beatdown? I know I did.

As far as the transition is concerned I'm not worried about the difference in tone between Choate and Vigen. Choate left the program in a great place. Fully stocked roster and lots of very good coaches retained. Choate got us to the doorstep and I think Coach V is the right guy to take us that last step to Frisco. He knows what it takes to become a champion. It would have been cool for Kane to take over but we may look back in three years and be grateful that he moved on and we got Vigen.

[84CatGrad]

I think people worry about Vigan because Ash and his laid back "we have to watch the tape and put a hat on a hat" persona are still fresh in memory. If it wasn't for that,, having a calm coach on the sideline wouldn't give the same trepidation that some have.

We(the players AND fans) got a swagger under Choate that we didn't have under Ash.

Are you talking about the coach Ash that won more football games at MSU than any other coach? THAT Coach ASH? Geez I hate it when fans talk about the Ash era as though it was a miserable failure.

The end of the Ash era was a miserable failure. That's what everyone is always talking about when they refer to Ash and I would think you'd know that by now. Yes he won more games than any other coach in school history but he 100% earned his legacy. He did great things for the program up until the last two years then the wheels fell off (and the doors and the seats and the steering wheel...).

He was a great coach for our university and deserves a great deal more respect than this site generally gives him. I'll leave it at that.

[utucats]

I think people worry about Vigan because Ash and his laid back "we have to watch the tape and put a hat on a hat" persona are still fresh in memory. If it wasn't for that,, having a calm coach on the sideline wouldn't give the same trepidation that some have.

We(the players AND fans) got a swagger under Choate that we didn't have under Ash.

Are you talking about the coach Ash that won more football games at MSU than any other coach? THAT Coach ASH? Geez I hate it when fans talk about the Ash era as though it was a miserable failure.

The end of the Ash era was a miserable failure. That's what everyone is always talking about when they refer to Ash and I would think you'd know that by now. Yes he won more games than any other coach in school history but he 100% earned his legacy. He did great things for the program up until the last two years then the wheels fell off (and the doors and the seats and the steering wheel...).

He was a great coach for our university and deserves a great deal more respect than this site generally gives him. I'll leave it at that.

He was an ok coach who got a job that was more than he should’ve had and had some of the most talented Cats teams ever and they all under performed.

Upon graduating many players made their frustration with him public in hopes that he’d be replaced. Thankfully he was.

Nice enough guy but this is a business where you should be respected based on merit and had we kept Ash there is no way we are where we are right now.

Maybe I’m being to harsh. Which University made him their Head Coach after he left Bozeman?

[lutecat]

I think people worry about Vigan because Ash and his laid back "we have to watch the tape and put a hat on a hat" persona are still fresh in memory. If it wasn't for that,, having a calm coach on the sideline wouldn't give the same trepidation that some have.

We(the players AND fans) got a swagger under Choate that we didn't have under Ash.

Are you talking about the coach Ash that won more football games at MSU than any other coach? THAT Coach ASH? Geez I hate it when fans talk about the Ash era as though it was a miserable failure.

I think everyone could sense where the program was going.

[catatac]

I think people worry about Vigan because Ash and his laid back "we have to watch the tape and put a hat on a hat" persona are still fresh in memory. If it wasn't for that,, having a calm coach on the sideline wouldn't give the same trepidation that some have.

We(the players AND fans) got a swagger under Choate that we didn't have under Ash.

Are you talking about the coach Ash that won more football games at MSU than any other coach? THAT Coach ASH? Geez I hate it when fans talk about the Ash era as though it was a miserable failure.

The end of the Ash era was a miserable failure. That's what everyone is always talking about when they refer to Ash and I would think you'd know that by now. Yes he won more games than any other coach in school history but he 100% earned his legacy. He did great things for the program up until the last two years then the wheels fell off (and the doors and the seats and the steering wheel...).

He was a great coach for our university and deserves a great deal more respect than this site generally gives him. I'll leave it at that.

He was an ok coach who got a job that was more than he should’ve had and had some of the most talented Cats teams ever and they all under performed.

Upon graduating many players made their frustration with him public in hopes that he’d be replaced. Thankfully he was.

Nice enough guy but this is a business where you should be respected based on merit and had we kept Ash there is no way we are where we are right now.

Maybe I’m being to harsh. Which University made him their Head Coach after he left Bozeman?

If Vigen wins the Big Sky title three years in a row (or maybe it was three times in four years), I'll be ecstatic. I'm in the same camp that Ash did some damn good things here. The collapse at the end was frustrating, and was definitely his fault but I'm not going to let that take away from what he accomplished. Choate did excellent things as well and was borderline rock star while here. Excited to see what Vigen brings to the table. He obviously has huge shoes to fill and is under tons of pressure.

[CelticCat]

Choate is proof that quitting while you're on top is the best way to be remembered. If Ash moved on after the 2013 season he'd be remembered in a whole different light than he is, which produced 3 straight Big Sky titles and saw us go 21-3 in league play in those same 3 years.

[KittieKop]

Choate is proof that quitting while you're on top is the best way to be remembered. If Ash moved on after the 2013 season he'd be remembered in a whole different light than he is, which produced 3 straight Big Sky titles and saw us go 21-3 in league play in those same 3 years.

You've hit the nail on the head. The converse is proof too - Ash was the all-time winningest coach, and will be remembered for his last two seasons. Choate was a .500 coach through 4 years here and will be remembered by a quarterfinal run (and the Cat Griz record). Neither is probably 100% fair to the achievements of either man.

[Cataholic]

Choate is proof that quitting while you're on top is the best way to be remembered. If Ash moved on after the 2013 season he'd be remembered in a whole different light than he is, which produced 3 straight Big Sky titles and saw us go 21-3 in league play in those same 3 years.

You've hit the nail on the head. The converse is proof too - Ash was the all-time winningest coach, and will be remembered for his last two seasons. Choate was a .500 coach through 4 years here and will be remembered by a quarterfinal run (and the Cat Griz record). Neither is probably 100% fair to the achievements of either man.

Semifinals.

[technoCat]

Choate is proof that quitting while you're on top is the best way to be remembered. If Ash moved on after the 2013 season he'd be remembered in a whole different light than he is, which produced 3 straight Big Sky titles and saw us go 21-3 in league play in those same 3 years.

You've hit the nail on the head. The converse is proof too - Ash was the all-time winningest coach, and will be remembered for his last two seasons. Choate was a .500 coach through 4 years here and will be remembered by a quarterfinal run (and the Cat Griz record). Neither is probably 100% fair to the achievements of either man.

I remember Ash for always creating teams that were paper mache tigers. We looked great on paper and whooped up on teams we should but always folded against the better teams. I remember a guy who could recruit 1st teamers with the best of them but always seemed to have trouble developing depth. I just never once had the feeling that Ash would be the one to win it all. Not even going into 2012 and I absolutely loved that team.

Choate was a lot like Kramer in that it always felt like we could beat or lose to anyone. I do think people forget about the inept offenses because of the run at the end though.

So much of it I'm sure is subjective based on their public faces. Ash just didn't get people excited and Choate did.

[bobcat99]

Choate is proof that quitting while you're on top is the best way to be remembered. If Ash moved on after the 2013 season he'd be remembered in a whole different light than he is, which produced 3 straight Big Sky titles and saw us go 21-3 in league play in those same 3 years.

You've hit the nail on the head. The converse is proof too - Ash was the all-time winningest coach, and will be remembered for his last two seasons. Choate was a .500 coach through 4 years here and will be remembered by a quarterfinal run (and the Cat Griz record). Neither is probably 100% fair to the achievements of either man.

The only reason Choate was a .500 coach here is because Ash left it in such a bad place.

Ash did well, and then he fell of the edge at such a rapid pace that it makes you question how he got to the proverbial top in the first place.

[HelenaCat95]

Given that the hottest topic on the Football board right now is about Trans people playing sports....I thought the topic of this thread was the Original Poster making an announcement.

[Common Cat]

Given that the hottest topic on the Football board right now is about Trans people playing sports....I thought the topic of this thread was the Original Poster making an announcement.

Hey now...

[HelenaCat95]

Given that the hottest topic on the Football board right now is about Trans people playing sports....I thought the topic of this thread was the Original Poster making an announcement.

Hey now...

Just messing with you.

[mslacatfan]

Given that the hottest topic on the Football board right now is about Trans people playing sports....I thought the topic of this thread was the Original Poster making an announcement.

[Common Cat]

Given that the hottest topic on the Football board right now is about Trans people playing sports....I thought the topic of this thread was the Original Poster making an announcement.

Hey now...

Just messing with you.

Hahah

[KittieKop]

Choate is proof that quitting while you're on top is the best way to be remembered. If Ash moved on after the 2013 season he'd be remembered in a whole different light than he is, which produced 3 straight Big Sky titles and saw us go 21-3 in league play in those same 3 years.

You've hit the nail on the head. The converse is proof too - Ash was the all-time winningest coach, and will be remembered for his last two seasons. Choate was a .500 coach through 4 years here and will be remembered by a quarterfinal run (and the Cat Griz record). Neither is probably 100% fair to the achievements of either man.

The only reason Choate was a .500 coach here is because Ash left it in such a bad place.

Ash did well, and then he fell of the edge at such a rapid pace that it makes you question how he got to the proverbial top in the first place.

Well, that and Choate couldn't apparently tell a quality Div I QB from a fence post.

[bobcat99]

Choate is proof that quitting while you're on top is the best way to be remembered. If Ash moved on after the 2013 season he'd be remembered in a whole different light than he is, which produced 3 straight Big Sky titles and saw us go 21-3 in league play in those same 3 years.

You've hit the nail on the head. The converse is proof too - Ash was the all-time winningest coach, and will be remembered for his last two seasons. Choate was a .500 coach through 4 years here and will be remembered by a quarterfinal run (and the Cat Griz record). Neither is probably 100% fair to the achievements of either man.

The only reason Choate was a .500 coach here is because Ash left it in such a bad place.

Ash did well, and then he fell of the edge at such a rapid pace that it makes you question how he got to the proverbial top in the first place.

Well, that and Choate couldn't apparently tell a quality Div I QB from a fence post.

And yet, they do exist on the roster currently. Nothing short of a miracle.

[KittieKop]

Choate is proof that quitting while you're on top is the best way to be remembered. If Ash moved on after the 2013 season he'd be remembered in a whole different light than he is, which produced 3 straight Big Sky titles and saw us go 21-3 in league play in those same 3 years.

You've hit the nail on the head. The converse is proof too - Ash was the all-time winningest coach, and will be remembered for his last two seasons. Choate was a .500 coach through 4 years here and will be remembered by a quarterfinal run (and the Cat Griz record). Neither is probably 100% fair to the achievements of either man.

The only reason Choate was a .500 coach here is because Ash left it in such a bad place.

Ash did well, and then he fell of the edge at such a rapid pace that it makes you question how he got to the proverbial top in the first place.

Well, that and Choate couldn't apparently tell a quality Div I QB from a fence post.

And yet, they do exist on the roster currently. Nothing short of a miracle.

There's been no miracle yet. And I believe the BN coaching rules state that Brent Vigen gets credit for any successes going forward from the date he became HC.