The dominoes start to fall for spring season

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GoldstoneCat
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Re: The dominoes start to fall for spring season

Post by GoldstoneCat » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:27 am

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Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:55 am
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Re: The dominoes start to fall for spring season

Post by bobcat99 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:01 am

It’s become increasingly clear that the majority of people who use the terms “straw man” and/or “red herring” don’t really know what it means.



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coloradocat
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Re: The dominoes start to fall for spring season

Post by coloradocat » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:01 am

Did everyone just take a break from arguing about politics and decide to come to this thread to argue about football in the spring?

The only relevant factor in whether or not there will be a spring season is the same as it was for the fall season: $$$. If the states/counties/cities continue to ban fans from attending games there won't be games. It wasn't about player safety related to Covid in the fall and it isn't for the spring. It won't be about player physical health in the spring either. If it was more costly to not play than to play without fans then schools would have played. The magical vaccine that is supposed to fix everything on the first try won't be available 100% nationwide in time for a spring season either so we can stop bringing that up. Until everyone can get it the ban won't be lifted for enough schools to play with fans.

Let's all just settle in and go through the same charade as a couple months ago where the schools talk optimistically about the season while individual schools then individual conferences then the entire FCS shuts down.


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onceacat
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Re: The dominoes start to fall for spring season

Post by onceacat » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:21 am

ilovethecats wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:17 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:58 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:49 am
Oh man. This post is DRIPPING with irony. For months I have heard people claim Corona the scariest thing in history. Fearing millions would die. Being totally fine with lockdowns and business closures. Having no problems with many of those businesses never opening again. Supporting no college sports because there isn't a vaccine, despite the fact these kids have a better chance of being struck by lightning than becoming severely ill from the Corona. Turning a blind eye to our kids getting absolutely screwed in their education. After all...it's about SAFETY! Doing what you can to protect others. Making "tiny" sacrifices to save mankind.

But when people say they don't think playing a spring "season" a few months before a full fall season is in the best interest of the players....NOW all of a sudden they are young, super fit kids able to bounce back with no possible consequences! NOW they are comparable to full blown adult professional athletes! It was FAR too dangerous for these guys to play amidst a pandemic of the likes we've never seen, but in a couple months, despite cases being higher than they have ever been, and the fact we still don't have a vaccine, these kids will be fine playing spring ball. No issues. This is honestly fantastic stuff.

All I know is some members of the coaching staff are VERY against a spring season for the very fact they don't think it's in the best interest of the kids. These are the guys that are with these kids more than the kids are with their parents. They know these young men. They care about these young men. And they hate the idea of a spring "season".

I don't know if they will play or not. A six game season would be great for me as a fan, but very difficult for the staff and players. You lose 1 game you're probably out of the playoffs. Once a team loses they'll likely not even play starters. It wouldn't make sense. But if they decide to play I'll trust them and support them. But I can't get over the fact that some are acting like there is no risk whatsoever playing spring ball right before fall ball, and at the same time supporting every possible corona precaution because it "protects others". :lol: =D^
Straw man, meet Red Herring.
Why? Because I think there is more risk involved with a spring season right before a fall season? Because I think this risk to college students is far greater than Covids risk to college students? Or that I find it funny that some people who are so fearful of the damage Covid could do don't seem all that concerned about the damage that a spring season before a fall season could do to a college athlete? :-k
Because nobody ever said most of the things in the first paragraph. If you make a deliberate choice to ignore what people are saying, then pretend like they said something else, it’s really easy to accuse them of a whole raft of things.

Nobody said any of that, so calling someone a hypocrite for saying stuff the y didn’t ever say is the height of bad faith argumentation.



ilovethecats
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Re: The dominoes start to fall for spring season

Post by ilovethecats » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:20 pm

onceacat wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:21 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:17 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:58 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:49 am
Oh man. This post is DRIPPING with irony. For months I have heard people claim Corona the scariest thing in history. Fearing millions would die. Being totally fine with lockdowns and business closures. Having no problems with many of those businesses never opening again. Supporting no college sports because there isn't a vaccine, despite the fact these kids have a better chance of being struck by lightning than becoming severely ill from the Corona. Turning a blind eye to our kids getting absolutely screwed in their education. After all...it's about SAFETY! Doing what you can to protect others. Making "tiny" sacrifices to save mankind.

But when people say they don't think playing a spring "season" a few months before a full fall season is in the best interest of the players....NOW all of a sudden they are young, super fit kids able to bounce back with no possible consequences! NOW they are comparable to full blown adult professional athletes! It was FAR too dangerous for these guys to play amidst a pandemic of the likes we've never seen, but in a couple months, despite cases being higher than they have ever been, and the fact we still don't have a vaccine, these kids will be fine playing spring ball. No issues. This is honestly fantastic stuff.

All I know is some members of the coaching staff are VERY against a spring season for the very fact they don't think it's in the best interest of the kids. These are the guys that are with these kids more than the kids are with their parents. They know these young men. They care about these young men. And they hate the idea of a spring "season".

I don't know if they will play or not. A six game season would be great for me as a fan, but very difficult for the staff and players. You lose 1 game you're probably out of the playoffs. Once a team loses they'll likely not even play starters. It wouldn't make sense. But if they decide to play I'll trust them and support them. But I can't get over the fact that some are acting like there is no risk whatsoever playing spring ball right before fall ball, and at the same time supporting every possible corona precaution because it "protects others". :lol: =D^
Straw man, meet Red Herring.
Why? Because I think there is more risk involved with a spring season right before a fall season? Because I think this risk to college students is far greater than Covids risk to college students? Or that I find it funny that some people who are so fearful of the damage Covid could do don't seem all that concerned about the damage that a spring season before a fall season could do to a college athlete? :-k
Because nobody ever said most of the things in the first paragraph. If you make a deliberate choice to ignore what people are saying, then pretend like they said something else, it’s really easy to accuse them of a whole raft of things.

Nobody said any of that, so calling someone a hypocrite for saying stuff the y didn’t ever say is the height of bad faith argumentation.
Wait. People never said it was ok for schools to be shut down? Then why did they shut down? Why are some still shut down?

People never said it’s too dangerous to play football until there is a vaccine? Why are most still not playing then? Why are some playing?

People never said that the corona is a virus we’ve never seen before and without doing anything millions of people could die?

People never said lockdowns and business closures were necessary to contain the virus? Then why the heck did we do those things if no one ever suggested or said we should?

We must run in different circles, watch different programs, and read different articles. Because I most definitely DID hear people say those things. And all of it was in the interest of “safety” and “protecting others”.

So yes. I find it hilarious that when people, including coaches, suggesting a spring season before a fall season would not be in the best interest of players safety, that people would counter that it’s really not that big of a deal and the kids will be fine.



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seataccat
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Re: The dominoes start to fall for spring season

Post by seataccat » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:56 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:40 pm
seataccat wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:24 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:58 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:49 am
Oh man. This post is DRIPPING with irony. For months I have heard people claim Corona the scariest thing in history. Fearing millions would die. Being totally fine with lockdowns and business closures. Having no problems with many of those businesses never opening again. Supporting no college sports because there isn't a vaccine, despite the fact these kids have a better chance of being struck by lightning than becoming severely ill from the Corona. Turning a blind eye to our kids getting absolutely screwed in their education. After all...it's about SAFETY! Doing what you can to protect others. Making "tiny" sacrifices to save mankind.

But when people say they don't think playing a spring "season" a few months before a full fall season is in the best interest of the players....NOW all of a sudden they are young, super fit kids able to bounce back with no possible consequences! NOW they are comparable to full blown adult professional athletes! It was FAR too dangerous for these guys to play amidst a pandemic of the likes we've never seen, but in a couple months, despite cases being higher than they have ever been, and the fact we still don't have a vaccine, these kids will be fine playing spring ball. No issues. This is honestly fantastic stuff.

All I know is some members of the coaching staff are VERY against a spring season for the very fact they don't think it's in the best interest of the kids. These are the guys that are with these kids more than the kids are with their parents. They know these young men. They care about these young men. And they hate the idea of a spring "season".

I don't know if they will play or not. A six game season would be great for me as a fan, but very difficult for the staff and players. You lose 1 game you're probably out of the playoffs. Once a team loses they'll likely not even play starters. It wouldn't make sense. But if they decide to play I'll trust them and support them. But I can't get over the fact that some are acting like there is no risk whatsoever playing spring ball right before fall ball, and at the same time supporting every possible corona precaution because it "protects others". :lol: =D^
Straw man, meet Red Herring.
Haha, yep.
Again......

Why? Because I think there is more risk involved with a spring season right before a fall season? Because I think this risk to college students is far greater than Covids risk to college students? Or that I find it funny that some people who are so fearful of the damage Covid could do don't seem all that concerned about the damage that a spring season before a fall season could do to a college athlete? :-k
Why not the same libertarian argument for the spring? If the players don't want to participate then don't, but don't subject everyone else to your notion that it's dangerous. Much the same argument you've been peddling about the fans in the fall. Not saying there is not risk to the players in a spring season. Why the double standard?


"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Voltaire

onceacat
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Re: The dominoes start to fall for spring season

Post by onceacat » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:04 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:20 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:21 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:17 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:58 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:49 am
Oh man. This post is DRIPPING with irony. For months I have heard people claim Corona the scariest thing in history. Fearing millions would die. Being totally fine with lockdowns and business closures. Having no problems with many of those businesses never opening again. Supporting no college sports because there isn't a vaccine, despite the fact these kids have a better chance of being struck by lightning than becoming severely ill from the Corona. Turning a blind eye to our kids getting absolutely screwed in their education. After all...it's about SAFETY! Doing what you can to protect others. Making "tiny" sacrifices to save mankind.

But when people say they don't think playing a spring "season" a few months before a full fall season is in the best interest of the players....NOW all of a sudden they are young, super fit kids able to bounce back with no possible consequences! NOW they are comparable to full blown adult professional athletes! It was FAR too dangerous for these guys to play amidst a pandemic of the likes we've never seen, but in a couple months, despite cases being higher than they have ever been, and the fact we still don't have a vaccine, these kids will be fine playing spring ball. No issues. This is honestly fantastic stuff.

All I know is some members of the coaching staff are VERY against a spring season for the very fact they don't think it's in the best interest of the kids. These are the guys that are with these kids more than the kids are with their parents. They know these young men. They care about these young men. And they hate the idea of a spring "season".

I don't know if they will play or not. A six game season would be great for me as a fan, but very difficult for the staff and players. You lose 1 game you're probably out of the playoffs. Once a team loses they'll likely not even play starters. It wouldn't make sense. But if they decide to play I'll trust them and support them. But I can't get over the fact that some are acting like there is no risk whatsoever playing spring ball right before fall ball, and at the same time supporting every possible corona precaution because it "protects others". :lol: =D^
Straw man, meet Red Herring.
Why? Because I think there is more risk involved with a spring season right before a fall season? Because I think this risk to college students is far greater than Covids risk to college students? Or that I find it funny that some people who are so fearful of the damage Covid could do don't seem all that concerned about the damage that a spring season before a fall season could do to a college athlete? :-k
Because nobody ever said most of the things in the first paragraph. If you make a deliberate choice to ignore what people are saying, then pretend like they said something else, it’s really easy to accuse them of a whole raft of things.

Nobody said any of that, so calling someone a hypocrite for saying stuff the y didn’t ever say is the height of bad faith argumentation.
Wait. People never said it was ok for schools to be shut down? Then why did they shut down? Why are some still shut down?

People never said it’s too dangerous to play football until there is a vaccine? Why are most still not playing then? Why are some playing?

People never said that the corona is a virus we’ve never seen before and without doing anything millions of people could die?

People never said lockdowns and business closures were necessary to contain the virus? Then why the heck did we do those things if no one ever suggested or said we should?

We must run in different circles, watch different programs, and read different articles. Because I most definitely DID hear people say those things. And all of it was in the interest of “safety” and “protecting others”.

So yes. I find it hilarious that when people, including coaches, suggesting a spring season before a fall season would not be in the best interest of players safety, that people would counter that it’s really not that big of a deal and the kids will be fine.
And today’s lesson is the logical fallacy of “Moving the Goalposts”.

This is fun...we should try ad hominem, non sequiters, and slippery slopes next.



onceacat
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Posts: 1848
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Re: The dominoes start to fall for spring season

Post by onceacat » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:54 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:20 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:21 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:17 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:58 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:49 am
Oh man. This post is DRIPPING with irony. For months I have heard people claim Corona the scariest thing in history. Fearing millions would die. Being totally fine with lockdowns and business closures. Having no problems with many of those businesses never opening again. Supporting no college sports because there isn't a vaccine, despite the fact these kids have a better chance of being struck by lightning than becoming severely ill from the Corona. Turning a blind eye to our kids getting absolutely screwed in their education. After all...it's about SAFETY! Doing what you can to protect others. Making "tiny" sacrifices to save mankind.

But when people say they don't think playing a spring "season" a few months before a full fall season is in the best interest of the players....NOW all of a sudden they are young, super fit kids able to bounce back with no possible consequences! NOW they are comparable to full blown adult professional athletes! It was FAR too dangerous for these guys to play amidst a pandemic of the likes we've never seen, but in a couple months, despite cases being higher than they have ever been, and the fact we still don't have a vaccine, these kids will be fine playing spring ball. No issues. This is honestly fantastic stuff.

All I know is some members of the coaching staff are VERY against a spring season for the very fact they don't think it's in the best interest of the kids. These are the guys that are with these kids more than the kids are with their parents. They know these young men. They care about these young men. And they hate the idea of a spring "season".

I don't know if they will play or not. A six game season would be great for me as a fan, but very difficult for the staff and players. You lose 1 game you're probably out of the playoffs. Once a team loses they'll likely not even play starters. It wouldn't make sense. But if they decide to play I'll trust them and support them. But I can't get over the fact that some are acting like there is no risk whatsoever playing spring ball right before fall ball, and at the same time supporting every possible corona precaution because it "protects others". :lol: =D^
Straw man, meet Red Herring.
Why? Because I think there is more risk involved with a spring season right before a fall season? Because I think this risk to college students is far greater than Covids risk to college students? Or that I find it funny that some people who are so fearful of the damage Covid could do don't seem all that concerned about the damage that a spring season before a fall season could do to a college athlete? :-k
Because nobody ever said most of the things in the first paragraph. If you make a deliberate choice to ignore what people are saying, then pretend like they said something else, it’s really easy to accuse them of a whole raft of things.

Nobody said any of that, so calling someone a hypocrite for saying stuff the y didn’t ever say is the height of bad faith argumentation.
Wait. People never said it was ok for schools to be shut down? Then why did they shut down? Why are some still shut down?

People never said it’s too dangerous to play football until there is a vaccine? Why are most still not playing then? Why are some playing?

People never said that the corona is a virus we’ve never seen before and without doing anything millions of people could die?

People never said lockdowns and business closures were necessary to contain the virus? Then why the heck did we do those things if no one ever suggested or said we should?

We must run in different circles, watch different programs, and read different articles. Because I most definitely DID hear people say those things. And all of it was in the interest of “safety” and “protecting others”.

So yes. I find it hilarious that when people, including coaches, suggesting a spring season before a fall season would not be in the best interest of players safety, that people would counter that it’s really not that big of a deal and the kids will be fine.
Nobody said schools should shut down, and, in fact, they didn't shut down. Back in the spring, they went to remote learning. Some places are back to school this fall, some places are still 100% remote, and some places are hybrid. Classic straw man.

I didn't hear a single person say "its too dangerous to play football until spring". I did hear a lot of "How do we keep contact sports like football and basketball until there is enough testing." Classic red herring. Plenty of schools chose to play football and suffer the inevitable outbreaks. Some schools chose to postpone football until there was adequate testing capacity to contain outbreaks. Some have cancelled fall football altogether.

At least 1.2 million people have died from Covid in 12 months, 225,000+ in the US with almost 1,000 more added every day. This isn't a fallacy, its just deliberately disregarding reality.

Of course people said lockdowns and closures were necessary to contain the virus. We did those things, and they did in fact, contain the virus. Then we stopped doing those things and the virus surged.

Not one single person anywhere said "businesses should close permanently". Thats why the US government spent upwards of $3Trillion in business bailout money to try to contain the damage.

Yes, I think you and I get our "news" from different sources. You have deliberately created a caricature of what other people have said, then argued against those straw men and thrown out a bunch of red herrings...When called out on it, you shifted the goalposts.

Its really tough to have a reasonable discussion with people who deliberately twist words & blatantly gaslight the world by denying basic facts, then using those bad faith arguments to call other people hypocrites.

Until we all learn to listen to other peoples arguments and agree on basic tenets of "What is real" we are going to have a really difficult time moving forward. (i.e. "Why are schools still closed?")



ilovethecats
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 4907
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: The dominoes start to fall for spring season

Post by ilovethecats » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:10 pm

onceacat wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:04 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:20 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:21 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:17 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:58 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:49 am
Oh man. This post is DRIPPING with irony. For months I have heard people claim Corona the scariest thing in history. Fearing millions would die. Being totally fine with lockdowns and business closures. Having no problems with many of those businesses never opening again. Supporting no college sports because there isn't a vaccine, despite the fact these kids have a better chance of being struck by lightning than becoming severely ill from the Corona. Turning a blind eye to our kids getting absolutely screwed in their education. After all...it's about SAFETY! Doing what you can to protect others. Making "tiny" sacrifices to save mankind.

But when people say they don't think playing a spring "season" a few months before a full fall season is in the best interest of the players....NOW all of a sudden they are young, super fit kids able to bounce back with no possible consequences! NOW they are comparable to full blown adult professional athletes! It was FAR too dangerous for these guys to play amidst a pandemic of the likes we've never seen, but in a couple months, despite cases being higher than they have ever been, and the fact we still don't have a vaccine, these kids will be fine playing spring ball. No issues. This is honestly fantastic stuff.

All I know is some members of the coaching staff are VERY against a spring season for the very fact they don't think it's in the best interest of the kids. These are the guys that are with these kids more than the kids are with their parents. They know these young men. They care about these young men. And they hate the idea of a spring "season".

I don't know if they will play or not. A six game season would be great for me as a fan, but very difficult for the staff and players. You lose 1 game you're probably out of the playoffs. Once a team loses they'll likely not even play starters. It wouldn't make sense. But if they decide to play I'll trust them and support them. But I can't get over the fact that some are acting like there is no risk whatsoever playing spring ball right before fall ball, and at the same time supporting every possible corona precaution because it "protects others". :lol: =D^
Straw man, meet Red Herring.
Why? Because I think there is more risk involved with a spring season right before a fall season? Because I think this risk to college students is far greater than Covids risk to college students? Or that I find it funny that some people who are so fearful of the damage Covid could do don't seem all that concerned about the damage that a spring season before a fall season could do to a college athlete? :-k
Because nobody ever said most of the things in the first paragraph. If you make a deliberate choice to ignore what people are saying, then pretend like they said something else, it’s really easy to accuse them of a whole raft of things.

Nobody said any of that, so calling someone a hypocrite for saying stuff the y didn’t ever say is the height of bad faith argumentation.
Wait. People never said it was ok for schools to be shut down? Then why did they shut down? Why are some still shut down?

People never said it’s too dangerous to play football until there is a vaccine? Why are most still not playing then? Why are some playing?

People never said that the corona is a virus we’ve never seen before and without doing anything millions of people could die?

People never said lockdowns and business closures were necessary to contain the virus? Then why the heck did we do those things if no one ever suggested or said we should?

We must run in different circles, watch different programs, and read different articles. Because I most definitely DID hear people say those things. And all of it was in the interest of “safety” and “protecting others”.

So yes. I find it hilarious that when people, including coaches, suggesting a spring season before a fall season would not be in the best interest of players safety, that people would counter that it’s really not that big of a deal and the kids will be fine.
And today’s lesson is the logical fallacy of “Moving the Goalposts”.

This is fun...we should try ad hominem, non sequiters, and slippery slopes next.
Ya. You accused me of “moving goalposts” before too, in which I drug up old posts showing it wasn’t even me that said what you claimed I said. But you didn’t respond. Wonder why as you respond to nearly everything I post. :lol:



ilovethecats
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 4907
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: The dominoes start to fall for spring season

Post by ilovethecats » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:14 pm

seataccat wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:56 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:40 pm
seataccat wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:24 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:58 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:49 am
Oh man. This post is DRIPPING with irony. For months I have heard people claim Corona the scariest thing in history. Fearing millions would die. Being totally fine with lockdowns and business closures. Having no problems with many of those businesses never opening again. Supporting no college sports because there isn't a vaccine, despite the fact these kids have a better chance of being struck by lightning than becoming severely ill from the Corona. Turning a blind eye to our kids getting absolutely screwed in their education. After all...it's about SAFETY! Doing what you can to protect others. Making "tiny" sacrifices to save mankind.

But when people say they don't think playing a spring "season" a few months before a full fall season is in the best interest of the players....NOW all of a sudden they are young, super fit kids able to bounce back with no possible consequences! NOW they are comparable to full blown adult professional athletes! It was FAR too dangerous for these guys to play amidst a pandemic of the likes we've never seen, but in a couple months, despite cases being higher than they have ever been, and the fact we still don't have a vaccine, these kids will be fine playing spring ball. No issues. This is honestly fantastic stuff.

All I know is some members of the coaching staff are VERY against a spring season for the very fact they don't think it's in the best interest of the kids. These are the guys that are with these kids more than the kids are with their parents. They know these young men. They care about these young men. And they hate the idea of a spring "season".

I don't know if they will play or not. A six game season would be great for me as a fan, but very difficult for the staff and players. You lose 1 game you're probably out of the playoffs. Once a team loses they'll likely not even play starters. It wouldn't make sense. But if they decide to play I'll trust them and support them. But I can't get over the fact that some are acting like there is no risk whatsoever playing spring ball right before fall ball, and at the same time supporting every possible corona precaution because it "protects others". :lol: =D^
Straw man, meet Red Herring.
Haha, yep.
Again......

Why? Because I think there is more risk involved with a spring season right before a fall season? Because I think this risk to college students is far greater than Covids risk to college students? Or that I find it funny that some people who are so fearful of the damage Covid could do don't seem all that concerned about the damage that a spring season before a fall season could do to a college athlete? :-k
Why not the same libertarian argument for the spring? If the players don't want to participate then don't, but don't subject everyone else to your notion that it's dangerous. Much the same argument you've been peddling about the fans in the fall. Not saying there is not risk to the players in a spring season. Why the double standard?
Where did I ever say players were forced to play? Seems like you’re the one putting words in mouths here. Players should most definitely be allowed to not play in the spring and I have a feeling many of them will choose to do just that. And I don’t blame them at all.

I’m not so sure why this is so difficult to grasp? Many fans and even coaches and players are not convinced the spring season will happen. One of the reasons for this, said by actual coaches, is they don’t think it’s safe for the athletes. If you believe this is wrong that’s ok!



ilovethecats
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Posts: 4907
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: The dominoes start to fall for spring season

Post by ilovethecats » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:26 pm

onceacat wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:54 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:20 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:21 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:17 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:58 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:49 am
Oh man. This post is DRIPPING with irony. For months I have heard people claim Corona the scariest thing in history. Fearing millions would die. Being totally fine with lockdowns and business closures. Having no problems with many of those businesses never opening again. Supporting no college sports because there isn't a vaccine, despite the fact these kids have a better chance of being struck by lightning than becoming severely ill from the Corona. Turning a blind eye to our kids getting absolutely screwed in their education. After all...it's about SAFETY! Doing what you can to protect others. Making "tiny" sacrifices to save mankind.

But when people say they don't think playing a spring "season" a few months before a full fall season is in the best interest of the players....NOW all of a sudden they are young, super fit kids able to bounce back with no possible consequences! NOW they are comparable to full blown adult professional athletes! It was FAR too dangerous for these guys to play amidst a pandemic of the likes we've never seen, but in a couple months, despite cases being higher than they have ever been, and the fact we still don't have a vaccine, these kids will be fine playing spring ball. No issues. This is honestly fantastic stuff.

All I know is some members of the coaching staff are VERY against a spring season for the very fact they don't think it's in the best interest of the kids. These are the guys that are with these kids more than the kids are with their parents. They know these young men. They care about these young men. And they hate the idea of a spring "season".

I don't know if they will play or not. A six game season would be great for me as a fan, but very difficult for the staff and players. You lose 1 game you're probably out of the playoffs. Once a team loses they'll likely not even play starters. It wouldn't make sense. But if they decide to play I'll trust them and support them. But I can't get over the fact that some are acting like there is no risk whatsoever playing spring ball right before fall ball, and at the same time supporting every possible corona precaution because it "protects others". :lol: =D^
Straw man, meet Red Herring.
Why? Because I think there is more risk involved with a spring season right before a fall season? Because I think this risk to college students is far greater than Covids risk to college students? Or that I find it funny that some people who are so fearful of the damage Covid could do don't seem all that concerned about the damage that a spring season before a fall season could do to a college athlete? :-k
Because nobody ever said most of the things in the first paragraph. If you make a deliberate choice to ignore what people are saying, then pretend like they said something else, it’s really easy to accuse them of a whole raft of things.

Nobody said any of that, so calling someone a hypocrite for saying stuff the y didn’t ever say is the height of bad faith argumentation.
Wait. People never said it was ok for schools to be shut down? Then why did they shut down? Why are some still shut down?

People never said it’s too dangerous to play football until there is a vaccine? Why are most still not playing then? Why are some playing?

People never said that the corona is a virus we’ve never seen before and without doing anything millions of people could die?

People never said lockdowns and business closures were necessary to contain the virus? Then why the heck did we do those things if no one ever suggested or said we should?

We must run in different circles, watch different programs, and read different articles. Because I most definitely DID hear people say those things. And all of it was in the interest of “safety” and “protecting others”.

So yes. I find it hilarious that when people, including coaches, suggesting a spring season before a fall season would not be in the best interest of players safety, that people would counter that it’s really not that big of a deal and the kids will be fine.
Nobody said schools should shut down, and, in fact, they didn't shut down. Back in the spring, they went to remote learning. Some places are back to school this fall, some places are still 100% remote, and some places are hybrid. Classic straw man.

I didn't hear a single person say "its too dangerous to play football until spring". I did hear a lot of "How do we keep contact sports like football and basketball until there is enough testing." Classic red herring. Plenty of schools chose to play football and suffer the inevitable outbreaks. Some schools chose to postpone football until there was adequate testing capacity to contain outbreaks. Some have cancelled fall football altogether.

At least 1.2 million people have died from Covid in 12 months, 225,000+ in the US with almost 1,000 more added every day. This isn't a fallacy, its just deliberately disregarding reality.

Of course people said lockdowns and closures were necessary to contain the virus. We did those things, and they did in fact, contain the virus. Then we stopped doing those things and the virus surged.

Not one single person anywhere said "businesses should close permanently". Thats why the US government spent upwards of $3Trillion in business bailout money to try to contain the damage.

Yes, I think you and I get our "news" from different sources. You have deliberately created a caricature of what other people have said, then argued against those straw men and thrown out a bunch of red herrings...When called out on it, you shifted the goalposts.

Its really tough to have a reasonable discussion with people who deliberately twist words & blatantly gaslight the world by denying basic facts, then using those bad faith arguments to call other people hypocrites.

Until we all learn to listen to other peoples arguments and agree on basic tenets of "What is real" we are going to have a really difficult time moving forward. (i.e. "Why are schools still closed?")
Wow. Twisting what I said again. Go back and show me where I said people said “businesses should close permanently”. For someone who talks about straw mans and goal posts so often, you sure do like to twist words.

I did say that businesses were forced to close, because that was deemed necessary, and many will never reopen. Please, please post where I claimed that people were saying businesses should close permanently. I’ll wait patiently.

And though I know you know what I meant about schools shutting down, I’ll play along. After all I have 3 kids in schools now so I feel good about it. Yes, kids got to do school at home on laptops. I should have been clearer. That actual brick and mortar buildings in which they used to congregate and learn were forced to lock their doors. Wait, that might not be true as the doors may have been unlocked at certain times for non students to enter for non-school related things. But kids were not allowed to enter those buildings. They were closed. Or shut down. This was because people deemed it necessary and safe to protect others. For some reason, with more cases than ever now, kids are allowed to enter these buildings a couple times a week.

It’s really not as difficult as you’re making it seem. Many people were forced to do many things the last 8 months in the name of “safety” and “protecting others”. All myself and others are suggesting is this same line of thinking can and should be applied in all aspects of life, not just Covid fears. So if coaches suggest a spring season may not be the safest, why does that not get the same considerations as all the other Covid stuff that may put us in grave danger?



onceacat
1st Team All-BobcatNation
Posts: 1848
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:35 pm

Re: The dominoes start to fall for spring season

Post by onceacat » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:43 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:26 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:54 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:20 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:21 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:17 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:58 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:49 am
Oh man. This post is DRIPPING with irony. For months I have heard people claim Corona the scariest thing in history. Fearing millions would die. Being totally fine with lockdowns and business closures. Having no problems with many of those businesses never opening again. Supporting no college sports because there isn't a vaccine, despite the fact these kids have a better chance of being struck by lightning than becoming severely ill from the Corona. Turning a blind eye to our kids getting absolutely screwed in their education. After all...it's about SAFETY! Doing what you can to protect others. Making "tiny" sacrifices to save mankind.

But when people say they don't think playing a spring "season" a few months before a full fall season is in the best interest of the players....NOW all of a sudden they are young, super fit kids able to bounce back with no possible consequences! NOW they are comparable to full blown adult professional athletes! It was FAR too dangerous for these guys to play amidst a pandemic of the likes we've never seen, but in a couple months, despite cases being higher than they have ever been, and the fact we still don't have a vaccine, these kids will be fine playing spring ball. No issues. This is honestly fantastic stuff.

All I know is some members of the coaching staff are VERY against a spring season for the very fact they don't think it's in the best interest of the kids. These are the guys that are with these kids more than the kids are with their parents. They know these young men. They care about these young men. And they hate the idea of a spring "season".

I don't know if they will play or not. A six game season would be great for me as a fan, but very difficult for the staff and players. You lose 1 game you're probably out of the playoffs. Once a team loses they'll likely not even play starters. It wouldn't make sense. But if they decide to play I'll trust them and support them. But I can't get over the fact that some are acting like there is no risk whatsoever playing spring ball right before fall ball, and at the same time supporting every possible corona precaution because it "protects others". :lol: =D^
Straw man, meet Red Herring.
Why? Because I think there is more risk involved with a spring season right before a fall season? Because I think this risk to college students is far greater than Covids risk to college students? Or that I find it funny that some people who are so fearful of the damage Covid could do don't seem all that concerned about the damage that a spring season before a fall season could do to a college athlete? :-k
Because nobody ever said most of the things in the first paragraph. If you make a deliberate choice to ignore what people are saying, then pretend like they said something else, it’s really easy to accuse them of a whole raft of things.

Nobody said any of that, so calling someone a hypocrite for saying stuff the y didn’t ever say is the height of bad faith argumentation.
Wait. People never said it was ok for schools to be shut down? Then why did they shut down? Why are some still shut down?

People never said it’s too dangerous to play football until there is a vaccine? Why are most still not playing then? Why are some playing?

People never said that the corona is a virus we’ve never seen before and without doing anything millions of people could die?

People never said lockdowns and business closures were necessary to contain the virus? Then why the heck did we do those things if no one ever suggested or said we should?

We must run in different circles, watch different programs, and read different articles. Because I most definitely DID hear people say those things. And all of it was in the interest of “safety” and “protecting others”.

So yes. I find it hilarious that when people, including coaches, suggesting a spring season before a fall season would not be in the best interest of players safety, that people would counter that it’s really not that big of a deal and the kids will be fine.
Nobody said schools should shut down, and, in fact, they didn't shut down. Back in the spring, they went to remote learning. Some places are back to school this fall, some places are still 100% remote, and some places are hybrid. Classic straw man.

I didn't hear a single person say "its too dangerous to play football until spring". I did hear a lot of "How do we keep contact sports like football and basketball until there is enough testing." Classic red herring. Plenty of schools chose to play football and suffer the inevitable outbreaks. Some schools chose to postpone football until there was adequate testing capacity to contain outbreaks. Some have cancelled fall football altogether.

At least 1.2 million people have died from Covid in 12 months, 225,000+ in the US with almost 1,000 more added every day. This isn't a fallacy, its just deliberately disregarding reality.

Of course people said lockdowns and closures were necessary to contain the virus. We did those things, and they did in fact, contain the virus. Then we stopped doing those things and the virus surged.

Not one single person anywhere said "businesses should close permanently". Thats why the US government spent upwards of $3Trillion in business bailout money to try to contain the damage.

Yes, I think you and I get our "news" from different sources. You have deliberately created a caricature of what other people have said, then argued against those straw men and thrown out a bunch of red herrings...When called out on it, you shifted the goalposts.

Its really tough to have a reasonable discussion with people who deliberately twist words & blatantly gaslight the world by denying basic facts, then using those bad faith arguments to call other people hypocrites.

Until we all learn to listen to other peoples arguments and agree on basic tenets of "What is real" we are going to have a really difficult time moving forward. (i.e. "Why are schools still closed?")
Wow. Twisting what I said again. Go back and show me where I said people said “businesses should close permanently”. For someone who talks about straw mans and goal posts so often, you sure do like to twist words. "Having no problems with many of those businesses never opening again."
I did say that businesses were forced to close, because that was deemed necessary, and many will never reopen. Please, please post where I claimed that people were saying businesses should close permanently. I’ll wait patiently. See the cut & paste I posted above

And though I know you know what I meant about schools shutting down, I’ll play along. After all I have 3 kids in schools now so I feel good about it. Yes, kids got to do school at home on laptops. I should have been clearer. That actual brick and mortar buildings in which they used to congregate and learn were forced to lock their doors. Wait, that might not be true as the doors may have been unlocked at certain times for non students to enter for non-school related things. But kids were not allowed to enter those buildings. They were closed. Or shut down. This was because people deemed it necessary and safe to protect others. For some reason, with more cases than ever now, kids are allowed to enter these buildings a couple times a week. Every school in Montana to the best of my knowledge is open to students 5 days/week.

It’s really not as difficult as you’re making it seem. Many people were forced to do many things the last 8 months in the name of “safety” and “protecting others”. All myself and others are suggesting is this same line of thinking can and should be applied in all aspects of life, not just Covid fears. So if coaches suggest a spring season may not be the safest, why does that not get the same considerations as all the other Covid stuff that may put us in grave danger?
Yes, many people were forced to do things they didn't want to do. That wasn't the point of your OP, though. Hence, the "shifting the goalposts" fallacy.

Per your OP "I have heard people claim Corona the scariest thing in history. Fearing millions would die. Being totally fine with lockdowns and business closures. Having no problems with many of those businesses never opening again. Supporting no college sports because there isn't a vaccine"

Find me a single person who said any of those things (other than that millions will die, which in fact, is very clearly going to be the case).

NOW all of a sudden they are young, super fit kids able to bounce back with no possible consequences! NOW they are comparable to full blown adult professional athletes! It was FAR too dangerous for these guys to play amidst a pandemic of the likes we've never seen, but in a couple months, despite cases being higher than they have ever been, and the fact we still don't have a vaccine, these kids will be fine playing spring ball. Almost nobody ever said that it was too dangerous for the ball players to play this fall, thought there certainly is some risk. EVERYONE said "you can't have contact sports because the risk of community transmission is too high when those football players go to class, to dorms, to their families, etc.

And nobody ever said "Its OK for kids to get screwed in their educations". Literally every single person I've read/heard/talked to has said "We need to figure out how to get students back into school without driving transmission rates sky high for staff & families." or some close approximation.

Hope that helps clear things up.



User avatar
Darth Yoda
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Re: The dominoes start to fall for spring season

Post by Darth Yoda » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:29 pm

I appear to be in the minority on a spring season. Based on one of Choate's pressers where he spent some time describing how he would just let the young kids run all the way through and protect veterans, I've warmed up to the idea of spring season. Choate talked about several true freshman from an exceptional recruiting class getting a fantastic opportunity to develop without losing a year of eligibility, and specifically mentioned Mellott, Elliott and Valdez. He also said the team is now in a the full weight training program in preparation for the season.

I hope we play. I fully expect to beat the crap out of the granola bears regardless on who's on the field.



BobcatDel
BobcatNation Team Captain
Posts: 443
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:54 pm

Re: The dominoes start to fall for spring season

Post by BobcatDel » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:31 pm

Darth Yoda wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:29 pm
I appear to be in the minority on a spring season. Based on one of Choate's pressers where he spent some time describing how he would just let the young kids run all the way through and protect veterans, I've warmed up to the idea of spring season. Choate talked about several true freshman from an exceptional recruiting class getting a fantastic opportunity to develop without losing a year of eligibility, and specifically mentioned Mellott, Elliott and Valdez. He also said the team is now in a the full weight training program in preparation for the season.

I hope we play. I fully expect to beat the crap out of the granola bears regardless on who's on the field.
Don't give up. There are others that aren't giving up on spring ball yet. I want to wait to see what the final season looks like and hear more about what the "experts" like Choate has to say before saying "never". If coach Choate said "no I don't want to have a season" it is hard to believe that we would move forward. But I want to hear it from him. Even a couple non-conference games would be nice. A regular season over by mid-April...possible playoff over by mid-May? A lot of great development time for RS-Freshmen and sophomores. A lot of great time developing offense under new offensive coordinator. I'll wait to see.



ilovethecats
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 4907
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: The dominoes start to fall for spring season

Post by ilovethecats » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:00 pm

onceacat wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:43 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:26 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:54 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:20 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:21 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:17 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:58 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:49 am
Oh man. This post is DRIPPING with irony. For months I have heard people claim Corona the scariest thing in history. Fearing millions would die. Being totally fine with lockdowns and business closures. Having no problems with many of those businesses never opening again. Supporting no college sports because there isn't a vaccine, despite the fact these kids have a better chance of being struck by lightning than becoming severely ill from the Corona. Turning a blind eye to our kids getting absolutely screwed in their education. After all...it's about SAFETY! Doing what you can to protect others. Making "tiny" sacrifices to save mankind.

But when people say they don't think playing a spring "season" a few months before a full fall season is in the best interest of the players....NOW all of a sudden they are young, super fit kids able to bounce back with no possible consequences! NOW they are comparable to full blown adult professional athletes! It was FAR too dangerous for these guys to play amidst a pandemic of the likes we've never seen, but in a couple months, despite cases being higher than they have ever been, and the fact we still don't have a vaccine, these kids will be fine playing spring ball. No issues. This is honestly fantastic stuff.

All I know is some members of the coaching staff are VERY against a spring season for the very fact they don't think it's in the best interest of the kids. These are the guys that are with these kids more than the kids are with their parents. They know these young men. They care about these young men. And they hate the idea of a spring "season".

I don't know if they will play or not. A six game season would be great for me as a fan, but very difficult for the staff and players. You lose 1 game you're probably out of the playoffs. Once a team loses they'll likely not even play starters. It wouldn't make sense. But if they decide to play I'll trust them and support them. But I can't get over the fact that some are acting like there is no risk whatsoever playing spring ball right before fall ball, and at the same time supporting every possible corona precaution because it "protects others". :lol: =D^
Straw man, meet Red Herring.
Why? Because I think there is more risk involved with a spring season right before a fall season? Because I think this risk to college students is far greater than Covids risk to college students? Or that I find it funny that some people who are so fearful of the damage Covid could do don't seem all that concerned about the damage that a spring season before a fall season could do to a college athlete? :-k
Because nobody ever said most of the things in the first paragraph. If you make a deliberate choice to ignore what people are saying, then pretend like they said something else, it’s really easy to accuse them of a whole raft of things.

Nobody said any of that, so calling someone a hypocrite for saying stuff the y didn’t ever say is the height of bad faith argumentation.
Wait. People never said it was ok for schools to be shut down? Then why did they shut down? Why are some still shut down?

People never said it’s too dangerous to play football until there is a vaccine? Why are most still not playing then? Why are some playing?

People never said that the corona is a virus we’ve never seen before and without doing anything millions of people could die?

People never said lockdowns and business closures were necessary to contain the virus? Then why the heck did we do those things if no one ever suggested or said we should?

We must run in different circles, watch different programs, and read different articles. Because I most definitely DID hear people say those things. And all of it was in the interest of “safety” and “protecting others”.

So yes. I find it hilarious that when people, including coaches, suggesting a spring season before a fall season would not be in the best interest of players safety, that people would counter that it’s really not that big of a deal and the kids will be fine.
Nobody said schools should shut down, and, in fact, they didn't shut down. Back in the spring, they went to remote learning. Some places are back to school this fall, some places are still 100% remote, and some places are hybrid. Classic straw man.

I didn't hear a single person say "its too dangerous to play football until spring". I did hear a lot of "How do we keep contact sports like football and basketball until there is enough testing." Classic red herring. Plenty of schools chose to play football and suffer the inevitable outbreaks. Some schools chose to postpone football until there was adequate testing capacity to contain outbreaks. Some have cancelled fall football altogether.

At least 1.2 million people have died from Covid in 12 months, 225,000+ in the US with almost 1,000 more added every day. This isn't a fallacy, its just deliberately disregarding reality.

Of course people said lockdowns and closures were necessary to contain the virus. We did those things, and they did in fact, contain the virus. Then we stopped doing those things and the virus surged.

Not one single person anywhere said "businesses should close permanently". Thats why the US government spent upwards of $3Trillion in business bailout money to try to contain the damage.

Yes, I think you and I get our "news" from different sources. You have deliberately created a caricature of what other people have said, then argued against those straw men and thrown out a bunch of red herrings...When called out on it, you shifted the goalposts.

Its really tough to have a reasonable discussion with people who deliberately twist words & blatantly gaslight the world by denying basic facts, then using those bad faith arguments to call other people hypocrites.

Until we all learn to listen to other peoples arguments and agree on basic tenets of "What is real" we are going to have a really difficult time moving forward. (i.e. "Why are schools still closed?")
Wow. Twisting what I said again. Go back and show me where I said people said “businesses should close permanently”. For someone who talks about straw mans and goal posts so often, you sure do like to twist words. "Having no problems with many of those businesses never opening again."
I did say that businesses were forced to close, because that was deemed necessary, and many will never reopen. Please, please post where I claimed that people were saying businesses should close permanently. I’ll wait patiently. See the cut & paste I posted above

And though I know you know what I meant about schools shutting down, I’ll play along. After all I have 3 kids in schools now so I feel good about it. Yes, kids got to do school at home on laptops. I should have been clearer. That actual brick and mortar buildings in which they used to congregate and learn were forced to lock their doors. Wait, that might not be true as the doors may have been unlocked at certain times for non students to enter for non-school related things. But kids were not allowed to enter those buildings. They were closed. Or shut down. This was because people deemed it necessary and safe to protect others. For some reason, with more cases than ever now, kids are allowed to enter these buildings a couple times a week. Every school in Montana to the best of my knowledge is open to students 5 days/week.

It’s really not as difficult as you’re making it seem. Many people were forced to do many things the last 8 months in the name of “safety” and “protecting others”. All myself and others are suggesting is this same line of thinking can and should be applied in all aspects of life, not just Covid fears. So if coaches suggest a spring season may not be the safest, why does that not get the same considerations as all the other Covid stuff that may put us in grave danger?
Yes, many people were forced to do things they didn't want to do. That wasn't the point of your OP, though. Hence, the "shifting the goalposts" fallacy.

Per your OP "I have heard people claim Corona the scariest thing in history. Fearing millions would die. Being totally fine with lockdowns and business closures. Having no problems with many of those businesses never opening again. Supporting no college sports because there isn't a vaccine"

Find me a single person who said any of those things (other than that millions will die, which in fact, is very clearly going to be the case).

NOW all of a sudden they are young, super fit kids able to bounce back with no possible consequences! NOW they are comparable to full blown adult professional athletes! It was FAR too dangerous for these guys to play amidst a pandemic of the likes we've never seen, but in a couple months, despite cases being higher than they have ever been, and the fact we still don't have a vaccine, these kids will be fine playing spring ball. Almost nobody ever said that it was too dangerous for the ball players to play this fall, thought there certainly is some risk. EVERYONE said "you can't have contact sports because the risk of community transmission is too high when those football players go to class, to dorms, to their families, etc.

And nobody ever said "Its OK for kids to get screwed in their educations". Literally every single person I've read/heard/talked to has said "We need to figure out how to get students back into school without driving transmission rates sky high for staff & families." or some close approximation.

Hope that helps clear things up.
It does. Thank you.

I feel many people made major sacrifices in the name of safety and protecting others.

In regards to the MSU Bobcat football team, I feel the kids made the same sacrifices as everyone else, and THEN some as college athletes.

I feel that a spring season before a fall season would put these kids at risk.

While not identical, I feel a risk of injury playing football is the same as a risk of a virus. Ignoring the fact that a risk playing football is about a million times more likely than a risk of corona for these kids. A risk is a risk.

I find it ironic people will ignore the risks of spring football before fall football and in another breath talk about the dangers of Covid.

I hope this too clears things up and if I’m lucky.....will align the goalposts. :lol:



iaafan
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 6110
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 12:44 pm

Re: The dominoes start to fall for spring season

Post by iaafan » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:55 am

ilovethecats wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:00 pm

It does. Thank you.

I feel many people made major sacrifices in the name of safety and protecting others.

In regards to the MSU Bobcat football team, I feel the kids made the same sacrifices as everyone else, and THEN some as college athletes.

I feel that a spring season before a fall season would put these kids at risk.

While not identical, I feel a risk of injury playing football is the same as a risk of a virus. Ignoring the fact that a risk playing football is about a million times more likely than a risk of corona for these kids. A risk is a risk.

I find it ironic people will ignore the risks of spring football before fall football and in another breath talk about the dangers of Covid.

I hope this too clears things up and if I’m lucky.....will align the goalposts. :lol:
The biggest virus risk of playing football isn't the risk to the players, it's the risk to the general population due to the risk of spreading the virus to others. The more people interact, the more the virus is spread. True, it may not make very many football players very sick, but that's not the entire point of not playing a sport due to a virus.

Football is king in the USA and we've done all we can to make it happen. Hopefully the ramifications aren't severe.

Football is risky due to injuries for sure and that's becoming more and more apparent as we continue to study football. One area that isn't studied much is the psychological toll playing sports has been taking the past 30-40 years as more and more people dedicate more and more time to playing a sport. Many players have a difficult time coping with the workload while playing, then adjusting to life after sports. I think it has a lot to do with the amount of training they do and the pressure they put on themselves. Lots of depression and lots of players turn to religion and drugs to cope. Fans, too, doing bizarre stuff and being blitzed by the media. All sports have this, but I think football is by far the worst in the USA.

At this point I agree that there should be no football this spring. I know the players will miss it, but I can see a lot of benefit from not playing. I almost feel like players should get their optional redshirt season, but then also have a mandatory season out of football once they've red-shirted. A year to just kick back and be a student. I also think the NCAA should cut back the amount of practice and training time, so that players become better rounded citizens.

People take sports, among other things, way too seriously. It's like a material item (house, car, clothes, etc.) that someone is too serious about.



ilovethecats
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 4907
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: The dominoes start to fall for spring season

Post by ilovethecats » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:55 am

iaafan wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:55 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:00 pm

It does. Thank you.

I feel many people made major sacrifices in the name of safety and protecting others.

In regards to the MSU Bobcat football team, I feel the kids made the same sacrifices as everyone else, and THEN some as college athletes.

I feel that a spring season before a fall season would put these kids at risk.

While not identical, I feel a risk of injury playing football is the same as a risk of a virus. Ignoring the fact that a risk playing football is about a million times more likely than a risk of corona for these kids. A risk is a risk.

I find it ironic people will ignore the risks of spring football before fall football and in another breath talk about the dangers of Covid.

I hope this too clears things up and if I’m lucky.....will align the goalposts. :lol:
The biggest virus risk of playing football isn't the risk to the players, it's the risk to the general population due to the risk of spreading the virus to others. The more people interact, the more the virus is spread. True, it may not make very many football players very sick, but that's not the entire point of not playing a sport due to a virus.

Football is king in the USA and we've done all we can to make it happen. Hopefully the ramifications aren't severe.

Football is risky due to injuries for sure and that's becoming more and more apparent as we continue to study football. One area that isn't studied much is the psychological toll playing sports has been taking the past 30-40 years as more and more people dedicate more and more time to playing a sport. Many players have a difficult time coping with the workload while playing, then adjusting to life after sports. I think it has a lot to do with the amount of training they do and the pressure they put on themselves. Lots of depression and lots of players turn to religion and drugs to cope. Fans, too, doing bizarre stuff and being blitzed by the media. All sports have this, but I think football is by far the worst in the USA.

At this point I agree that there should be no football this spring. I know the players will miss it, but I can see a lot of benefit from not playing. I almost feel like players should get their optional redshirt season, but then also have a mandatory season out of football once they've red-shirted. A year to just kick back and be a student. I also think the NCAA should cut back the amount of practice and training time, so that players become better rounded citizens.

People take sports, among other things, way too seriously. It's like a material item (house, car, clothes, etc.) that someone is too serious about.
Completely agree with all of this 1aa. Which is why my opinion has been the entire time there won't be a spring season. In terms of the virus we might actually be WORSE off than we are right now, regardless of a vaccine. Especially FCS, spring football just doesn't make sense.

As a fan, I'd love to see an intense 6 game season where even one loss likely eliminates your from the playoffs. I think it'd be cool to watch, but don't think it's worth the risk to the athletes. Just my opinion of course.

I understand what you're saying about the non-risk to the players but the risk of them infecting others. But these are kids who are already spending time with hundreds of other people every day just being a student. They are coming and going with no restrictions on travel. With so many teams opting to play football this fall, has there been any preliminary studies showing that these teams playing are increasing infections in their areas? You'd think we'd be able to associate spikes in these areas by now as they've been playing for over a month.

I guess my point is that in this time, when travel is wide open, no restrictions on who can come and go, bars and restaurants open, colleges and dorms open, elementary middle and high schools opening or partially opening, that we could look at a football game played for a couple hours on a Saturday and deem that too risky? But I understand why schools have to make the decisions they do.

When we were just getting into this thing and everyone was focused on the vaccine, I also thought testing would be a gamebreaker. I guess I'm disappointed in where we are with testing 8 months in. You'd think by now there should be a very cheap, lightning fast test available to EVERYONE every day. Not just big time college and pro athletes who have been tested once or twice a day every day for 5 months. I think that remains my biggest gripe in all of this.



bobcat99
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Re: The dominoes start to fall for spring season

Post by bobcat99 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:11 am

If they’re going to have spring games, I agree with what others have said to use it as a developmental time for the younger players.


Get McKay some solid reps, and get the younger guys that you might redshirt or something some good action. Maybe rotate a lot to try to prevent injuries. Tricky situation for sure.



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PapaG
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Re: The dominoes start to fall for spring season

Post by PapaG » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:27 pm

Is asking people already struggling financially to support what would be a sham Spring season worth it? Biden is already swing he’ll have mandatory masks at a federal level. It’s as Fascist as it gets but I do believe him when he says he’ll do it, and use the police to enforce it.


Greg K.

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Re: The dominoes start to fall for spring season

Post by BleedingBLue » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:55 pm

Towson opted out today.



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