MSU response

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Re: MSU response

Post by iaafan » Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:19 am

coochorama42 wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:52 am
Some facts with a couple comments thrown in.

1). Anyone with a high BMI is vulnerable to this disease, especially if they do not have a low blood pressure. Guys on the O-Line and interior D-Line are almost always a going to be in an elevated risk factor because they are asked to put on mass - and not all of that mass is muscle. If they get the disease, the extra mass can is a strain on the lungs and heart.

2. These players are receiving a college education and a modest stipend for their talents if on scholarship. This is not fair compensation, in my opinion, for the additional risks they'd be assuming for playing in this pandemic while underway.

3. 1/3 of all U.S. cases occurred in July and the U.S. death rate is about 1000 per day. This is not slowing down. Because some people will not agree to shelter-in-place for the public good, we are reliant on a safe vaccine and/or a miracle treatment. This takes much longer that a collective shelter-in-place (in Europe and Asia, far fewer people were considered essential workers during shelter-in-place, so the effort was significantly more effective).

4. All signs are pointing to safe (and hopefully effective) vaccines rolling out late this year/early next year. Once our health care providers are vaccinated, a weighted lottery will likely determine who gets the other first doses. These vaccines are likely going to be similar to other existing vaccines with respect to production methods, so mass production (enough to get all those that want a vaccine one) seems possible early next year. This is a miracle of modern science and engineering and should not be diminished. Students I taught are working on these vaccines and there must be hundreds if not thousands of MSU grads that will have contributed to this.

5. Once vaccines are available, we will be able to hopefully not only have football, but also actually go to games.

Now for my thoughts. If you think that COVID is a political tool and not the deadly virus it is, you should count your blessings. You likely have not personally seen its impact on people. My wife and I have family on the east coast and friends all over the world. My wife has had two extended family members (in their 60s with no co-morbidity factors) die from COVID. A very close friend's wife lost her baby while she had COVID. My wife's uncle and best friend's mother-in-law both died after long fights with cancer. Friends and family members (including children...and my wife in the case of her uncle) could not visit because the risk to nurses and hospice workers were too great.

Stop making this about you and how it inconveniences your life. The mental health and economic impacts are real. We need to demand that the people representing us in DC actually represent us on this issue. But not having college football, etc. is an inconvenience. It sucks, but we will get it back soon. In World War II we all joined together for years to fight a common enemy. In 2020, people refuse to do the same even though it would only take six weeks of shelter-in-place to regain normalcy (with localized flare-ups and shutdowns needed until the vaccine arrived). To paraphrase myself from a previous post, your decisions in April and May ensured that we didn't have football this fall. I was sheltering in place, but far too many people did not. Now we all get to live with the consequences.
Excellent, well thought out post. Like how you mix facts with your own comments, rather than just comment with nothing to support what you're saying.



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Re: MSU response

Post by The Butcher » Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:28 am

coochorama42 wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:52 am
Some facts with a couple comments thrown in.

1). Anyone with a high BMI is vulnerable to this disease, especially if they do not have a low blood pressure. Guys on the O-Line and interior D-Line are almost always a going to be in an elevated risk factor because they are asked to put on mass - and not all of that mass is muscle. If they get the disease, the extra mass can is a strain on the lungs and heart.

2. These players are receiving a college education and a modest stipend for their talents if on scholarship. This is not fair compensation, in my opinion, for the additional risks they'd be assuming for playing in this pandemic while underway.

3. 1/3 of all U.S. cases occurred in July and the U.S. death rate is about 1000 per day. This is not slowing down. Because some people will not agree to shelter-in-place for the public good, we are reliant on a safe vaccine and/or a miracle treatment. This takes much longer that a collective shelter-in-place (in Europe and Asia, far fewer people were considered essential workers during shelter-in-place, so the effort was significantly more effective).

4. All signs are pointing to safe (and hopefully effective) vaccines rolling out late this year/early next year. Once our health care providers are vaccinated, a weighted lottery will likely determine who gets the other first doses. These vaccines are likely going to be similar to other existing vaccines with respect to production methods, so mass production (enough to get all those that want a vaccine one) seems possible early next year. This is a miracle of modern science and engineering and should not be diminished. Students I taught are working on these vaccines and there must be hundreds if not thousands of MSU grads that will have contributed to this.

5. Once vaccines are available, we will be able to hopefully not only have football, but also actually go to games.

Now for my thoughts. If you think that COVID is a political tool and not the deadly virus it is, you should count your blessings. You likely have not personally seen its impact on people. My wife and I have family on the east coast and friends all over the world. My wife has had two extended family members (in their 60s with no co-morbidity factors) die from COVID. A very close friend's wife lost her baby while she had COVID. My wife's uncle and best friend's mother-in-law both died after long fights with cancer. Friends and family members (including children...and my wife in the case of her uncle) could not visit because the risk to nurses and hospice workers were too great.

Stop making this about you and how it inconveniences your life. The mental health and economic impacts are real. We need to demand that the people representing us in DC actually represent us on this issue. But not having college football, etc. is an inconvenience. It sucks, but we will get it back soon. In World War II we all joined together for years to fight a common enemy. In 2020, people refuse to do the same even though it would only take six weeks of shelter-in-place to regain normalcy (with localized flare-ups and shutdowns needed until the vaccine arrived). To paraphrase myself from a previous post, your decisions in April and May ensured that we didn't have football this fall. I was sheltering in place, but far too many people did not. Now we all get to live with the consequences.
Well put.

I would add that my in-laws know 3 people in Montana that have passed due to COVID.
One was a supplier to my brother in-law's business (Bozeman).
One was a classmate of my mother in-law and the classmate's mother passed a few days after him (Eastern Montana).



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Re: MSU response

Post by iaafan » Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:50 am

Trevor Lawrence with an interesting take:



Makes sense. I wonder if this will gain traction or if it's flawed.



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Re: MSU response

Post by ilovethecats » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:14 am

iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:50 am
Trevor Lawrence with an interesting take:



Makes sense. I wonder if this will gain traction or if it's flawed.
I've felt all along that athletes, both college and pro are much better off together than not. Obviously the bubble in the NBA helps, but even those sports without a bubble have so many procedures in place that a regular Joe like me doesn't have.

I think it's asinine that these schools (MSU included) plan on in-person education when we deem sports too unsafe tom play. It doesn't make any sense. What do they suspect these kids will be doing in all their free time when not in class?

Sometimes I feel these decisions are made by throwing darts at a wall....



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Re: MSU response

Post by coloradocat » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:23 am

ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:14 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:50 am
Trevor Lawrence with an interesting take:



Makes sense. I wonder if this will gain traction or if it's flawed.
I've felt all along that athletes, both college and pro are much better off together than not. Obviously the bubble in the NBA helps, but even those sports without a bubble have so many procedures in place that a regular Joe like me doesn't have.

I think it's asinine that these schools (MSU included) plan on in-person education when we deem sports too unsafe tom play. It doesn't make any sense. What do they suspect these kids will be doing in all their free time when not in class?

Sometimes I feel these decisions are made by throwing darts at a wall....
I assume moving the schedule to the spring was about economics and not athlete/staff health. It would be too costly to play a season if you aren't allowed to have fans attending the games. The decision on fans is out of the schools' control and in the hands of local/state government officials.

The best thing for the athletes would be to allow them to stay on campus all semester, regardless of whether or not their particular school has on-campus classes.


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Re: MSU response

Post by blueandgoldblitz » Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:05 am

Screw traffic signals. I'm not gonna let the government tell me what to do. Red light? i'm late for work. I'm going right through that ******


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Re: MSU response

Post by Cats15 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:28 am

Man I wish this would have come out prior to the Big Sky's decision:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2 ... b8f4ee53e9

The saliva tests looks to be a lot less expensive and the turn around time to get results is only hours not days! I believe the biggest reason that alot of conferences decided to postpone or cancel season was due to the cost associated with testing athletes. Since what is done is done, I am really hoping this is in place soon and that it allows us to have a better chance to hold the season in the spring. It is just too bad this didn't come out a month ago!



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Re: MSU response

Post by iaafan » Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:51 pm

Cats15 wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:28 am
Man I wish this would have come out prior to the Big Sky's decision:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2 ... b8f4ee53e9

The saliva tests looks to be a lot less expensive and the turn around time to get results is only hours not days! I believe the biggest reason that alot of conferences decided to postpone or cancel season was due to the cost associated with testing athletes. Since what is done is done, I am really hoping this is in place soon and that it allows us to have a better chance to hold the season in the spring. It is just too bad this didn't come out a month ago!
This would be an awesome development. Maybe the colleges can change their minds?



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Re: MSU response

Post by VimSince03 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:03 pm



Buckle up for a long fall/winter everyone. This will likely have a downward spiral effect to the ACC college football season.

I'm also not choosing a "side" here...just passing along a tweet. As many have stated so far, everything just sucks.

Well...MSU's recruiting is still awesome so we have that!


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Re: MSU response

Post by TIrwin24 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:29 am

The thing I don't get, is during 2009 the H1N1 virus circulated the world and was extremely problematic for younger adults. The older population had pre-existing immunities and weren't as susceptible.

I was a senior at MSU in 2009 and nothing changed...Not one iota. Hell, it was barely talked about in the public setting.

Now, we have a virus that has caused similar numbers of deaths worldwide to H1N1, primarily in the older population and everybody is going ****** crazy about being in danger, and everyone could possibly die. The numbers don't back this theory, but the fear mob and the MSM continue to push the narrative. The Big Sky Conference and sadly, the MSU administration has bought in to the fear, hook, line and sinker.

Embarrassing


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Re: MSU response

Post by iaafan » Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:03 am

TIrwin24 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:29 am
The thing I don't get, is during 2009 the H1N1 virus circulated the world and was extremely problematic for younger adults. The older population had pre-existing immunities and weren't as susceptible.

I was a senior at MSU in 2009 and nothing changed...Not one iota. Hell, it was barely talked about in the public setting.

Now, we have a virus that has caused similar numbers of deaths worldwide to H1N1, primarily in the older population and everybody is going ****** crazy about being in danger, and everyone could possibly die. The numbers don't back this theory, but the fear mob and the MSM continue to push the narrative. The Big Sky Conference and sadly, the MSU administration has bought in to the fear, hook, line and sinker.

Embarrassing
Not sure where you got those numbers, but the death count is not similar. Covid is closing in on 180,000 in the US, while H1N1 was 12,469. Worldwide the death toll from Covid stands at 792,000, while H1N1 had a range of 151,700 to 575,400.



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Re: MSU response

Post by CelticCat » Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:39 am

TIrwin24 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:29 am
The thing I don't get, is during 2009 the H1N1 virus circulated the world and was extremely problematic for younger adults. The older population had pre-existing immunities and weren't as susceptible.

I was a senior at MSU in 2009 and nothing changed...Not one iota. Hell, it was barely talked about in the public setting.

Now, we have a virus that has caused similar numbers of deaths worldwide to H1N1, primarily in the older population and everybody is going ****** crazy about being in danger, and everyone could possibly die. The numbers don't back this theory, but the fear mob and the MSM continue to push the narrative. The Big Sky Conference and sadly, the MSU administration has bought in to the fear, hook, line and sinker.

Embarrassing
Do you really think the people in charge for the conference and each school just sat around and watched the news and based all their decisions on that?


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Re: MSU response

Post by ilovethecats » Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:38 pm

CelticCat wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:39 am
TIrwin24 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:29 am
The thing I don't get, is during 2009 the H1N1 virus circulated the world and was extremely problematic for younger adults. The older population had pre-existing immunities and weren't as susceptible.

I was a senior at MSU in 2009 and nothing changed...Not one iota. Hell, it was barely talked about in the public setting.

Now, we have a virus that has caused similar numbers of deaths worldwide to H1N1, primarily in the older population and everybody is going ****** crazy about being in danger, and everyone could possibly die. The numbers don't back this theory, but the fear mob and the MSM continue to push the narrative. The Big Sky Conference and sadly, the MSU administration has bought in to the fear, hook, line and sinker.

Embarrassing
Do you really think the people in charge for the conference and each school just sat around and watched the news and based all their decisions on that?
It wasn’t a consensus. The powers that be were way more concerned about the public perception than they were the risk of the virus. I know with 100% certainty our AD and our head football coach wanted fall football. They even thought they could do it with fans. I’m told UM was in the same boat.

It sucks to see schools have to make these decisions, even if it goes against their own personal feelings. It’s the same reason my confidence level is very low for spring ball.



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Re: MSU response

Post by iaafan » Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:09 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:38 pm
CelticCat wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:39 am
TIrwin24 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:29 am
The thing I don't get, is during 2009 the H1N1 virus circulated the world and was extremely problematic for younger adults. The older population had pre-existing immunities and weren't as susceptible.

I was a senior at MSU in 2009 and nothing changed...Not one iota. Hell, it was barely talked about in the public setting.

Now, we have a virus that has caused similar numbers of deaths worldwide to H1N1, primarily in the older population and everybody is going ****** crazy about being in danger, and everyone could possibly die. The numbers don't back this theory, but the fear mob and the MSM continue to push the narrative. The Big Sky Conference and sadly, the MSU administration has bought in to the fear, hook, line and sinker.

Embarrassing
Do you really think the people in charge for the conference and each school just sat around and watched the news and based all their decisions on that?
It wasn’t a consensus. The powers that be were way more concerned about the public perception than they were the risk of the virus. I know with 100% certainty our AD and our head football coach wanted fall football. They even thought they could do it with fans. I’m told UM was in the same boat.

It sucks to see schools have to make these decisions, even if it goes against their own personal feelings. It’s the same reason my confidence level is very low for spring ball.
That's the first I've heard of that. I didn't get that from any of the interviews I read or saw, but maybe our coach and AD were just giving it lip service. Choate seems to always speak his mind, but maybe that only goes so far. I'm sure if Cruzado was one of the people that weighed in for MSU and she wasn't for playing, then Choate would almost have to stand down. Cat is out of the bag now though. Hopefully there isn't a rift between our two highest paid MSU employees. Both are extremely successful, so it'd be a shame if they're butting heads. Nonetheless, thanks for the information. Very interesting.



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Re: MSU response

Post by TIrwin24 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:14 pm

iaafan wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:03 am
TIrwin24 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:29 am
The thing I don't get, is during 2009 the H1N1 virus circulated the world and was extremely problematic for younger adults. The older population had pre-existing immunities and weren't as susceptible.

I was a senior at MSU in 2009 and nothing changed...Not one iota. Hell, it was barely talked about in the public setting.

Now, we have a virus that has caused similar numbers of deaths worldwide to H1N1, primarily in the older population and everybody is going ****** crazy about being in danger, and everyone could possibly die. The numbers don't back this theory, but the fear mob and the MSM continue to push the narrative. The Big Sky Conference and sadly, the MSU administration has bought in to the fear, hook, line and sinker.

Embarrassing
Not sure where you got those numbers, but the death count is not similar. Covid is closing in on 180,000 in the US, while H1N1 was 12,469. Worldwide the death toll from Covid stands at 792,000, while H1N1 had a range of 151,700 to 575,400.
CDC

I took the higher of the H1N1 death count because, it seems like it'd be a more apples/apples comparison.

If you look at the numbers from the CDC, you'll see that anyone aged 0-24 is basically a flat line just above zero. Everyone should know and acknowledge by now that co-morbidities and vitamin D deficiency are the leading cause of Covid-related death, especially if you're 55+.

Since the media is enamored with the case count, you also should recognize that H1N1 had over 60 million US cases. Covid is just over 5 million.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... #AgeAndSex


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Re: MSU response

Post by catatac » Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:21 pm

TIrwin24 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:14 pm
iaafan wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:03 am
TIrwin24 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:29 am
The thing I don't get, is during 2009 the H1N1 virus circulated the world and was extremely problematic for younger adults. The older population had pre-existing immunities and weren't as susceptible.

I was a senior at MSU in 2009 and nothing changed...Not one iota. Hell, it was barely talked about in the public setting.

Now, we have a virus that has caused similar numbers of deaths worldwide to H1N1, primarily in the older population and everybody is going ****** crazy about being in danger, and everyone could possibly die. The numbers don't back this theory, but the fear mob and the MSM continue to push the narrative. The Big Sky Conference and sadly, the MSU administration has bought in to the fear, hook, line and sinker.

Embarrassing
Not sure where you got those numbers, but the death count is not similar. Covid is closing in on 180,000 in the US, while H1N1 was 12,469. Worldwide the death toll from Covid stands at 792,000, while H1N1 had a range of 151,700 to 575,400.
CDC

I took the higher of the H1N1 death count because, it seems like it'd be a more apples/apples comparison.

If you look at the numbers from the CDC, you'll see that anyone aged 0-24 is basically a flat line just above zero. Everyone should know and acknowledge by now that co-morbidities and vitamin D deficiency are the leading cause of Covid-related death, especially if you're 55+.

Since the media is enamored with the case count, you also should recognize that H1N1 had over 60 million US cases. Covid is just over 5 million.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... #AgeAndSex
Good info. I'll also point out the average age of people who die from Covid is about 78 years old. Anybody care to guess what the average life span is for the average person? Ya, about 78 years.

Old people die.


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Re: MSU response

Post by MSU01 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:06 pm

catatac wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:21 pm
TIrwin24 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:14 pm
iaafan wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:03 am
TIrwin24 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:29 am
The thing I don't get, is during 2009 the H1N1 virus circulated the world and was extremely problematic for younger adults. The older population had pre-existing immunities and weren't as susceptible.

I was a senior at MSU in 2009 and nothing changed...Not one iota. Hell, it was barely talked about in the public setting.

Now, we have a virus that has caused similar numbers of deaths worldwide to H1N1, primarily in the older population and everybody is going ****** crazy about being in danger, and everyone could possibly die. The numbers don't back this theory, but the fear mob and the MSM continue to push the narrative. The Big Sky Conference and sadly, the MSU administration has bought in to the fear, hook, line and sinker.

Embarrassing
Not sure where you got those numbers, but the death count is not similar. Covid is closing in on 180,000 in the US, while H1N1 was 12,469. Worldwide the death toll from Covid stands at 792,000, while H1N1 had a range of 151,700 to 575,400.
CDC

I took the higher of the H1N1 death count because, it seems like it'd be a more apples/apples comparison.

If you look at the numbers from the CDC, you'll see that anyone aged 0-24 is basically a flat line just above zero. Everyone should know and acknowledge by now that co-morbidities and vitamin D deficiency are the leading cause of Covid-related death, especially if you're 55+.

Since the media is enamored with the case count, you also should recognize that H1N1 had over 60 million US cases. Covid is just over 5 million.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... #AgeAndSex
Good info. I'll also point out the average age of people who die from Covid is about 78 years old. Anybody care to guess what the average life span is for the average person? Ya, about 78 years.

Old people die.
The median death age is 78, not the average (mean). Two very different things with very different interpretations. 25% of the COVID deaths so far have been people under 67, so plenty of people are dying from this who aren't elderly.


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Re: MSU response

Post by iaafan » Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:39 pm

TIrwin24 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:14 pm
iaafan wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:03 am
TIrwin24 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:29 am
The thing I don't get, is during 2009 the H1N1 virus circulated the world and was extremely problematic for younger adults. The older population had pre-existing immunities and weren't as susceptible.

I was a senior at MSU in 2009 and nothing changed...Not one iota. Hell, it was barely talked about in the public setting.

Now, we have a virus that has caused similar numbers of deaths worldwide to H1N1, primarily in the older population and everybody is going ****** crazy about being in danger, and everyone could possibly die. The numbers don't back this theory, but the fear mob and the MSM continue to push the narrative. The Big Sky Conference and sadly, the MSU administration has bought in to the fear, hook, line and sinker.

Embarrassing
Not sure where you got those numbers, but the death count is not similar. Covid is closing in on 180,000 in the US, while H1N1 was 12,469. Worldwide the death toll from Covid stands at 792,000, while H1N1 had a range of 151,700 to 575,400.
CDC

I took the higher of the H1N1 death count because, it seems like it'd be a more apples/apples comparison.

If you look at the numbers from the CDC, you'll see that anyone aged 0-24 is basically a flat line just above zero. Everyone should know and acknowledge by now that co-morbidities and vitamin D deficiency are the leading cause of Covid-related death, especially if you're 55+.

Since the media is enamored with the case count, you also should recognize that H1N1 had over 60 million US cases. Covid is just over 5 million.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... #AgeAndSex
It is important to recognize that the case count was 60 million for H1N1 and for Covid it's just over 5 million. This is certainly something to keep an eye on.

Another important statistical thing about these two sets of numbers is that the H1N1 death count range was determined in 2012. Three years after it made its rounds. The range is based on models. The worldwide high number is the far end of the range of models. The actual counted deaths is closer to the 151,700 figure, but deaths over average around the globe make it possible that 575,400 died. The 792,000 is the actual counted deaths for Covid. When all is said and done (three? years from now) and everything's been analyzed you can feel pretty safe in assuming that the high range for Covid is going to be around 2 million worldwide.

In the USA Covid is nearly 180,000 deaths, compared to the H1N1 final number of 12,469. The US number is already significantly higher than H1N1, so you'd have to agree that Covid is significantly more deadly than H1N1. Covid is obviously going to go higher, probably will reach at least 200,000, but the high range (based on deaths over average) is going to be at least 300,000. So there's really no comparison.

You stated that everyone is going crazy about being in danger, and everyone could possibly die. I've been following this closely and have yet to hear anyone saying anything even remotely close to that. The most any model showed dying was 2-3 million, which isn't even 1% of the US population and nothing near everyone dying. What people are going crazy about is the unwillingness of the president, some governors, and other political figures not taking this seriously and prolonging it unnecessarily. We could we be past this by now (see Spain, Italy, England, Germany, Japan, France, S. Korea), but it continues to drag on in the USA unlike hardly any other countries. Only Brazil and India compare to the USA. I'd like to think we're a lot more well developed than Brazil, but I'm not sure we are anymore. India has about fives as many people as the US, so their numbers are much less than ours per capita.



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Re: MSU response

Post by TIrwin24 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:59 pm

iaafan wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:39 pm


It is important to recognize that the case count was 60 million for H1N1 and for Covid it's just over 5 million. This is certainly something to keep an eye on.

Another important statistical thing about these two sets of numbers is that the H1N1 death count range was determined in 2012. Three years after it made its rounds. The range is based on models. The worldwide high number is the far end of the range of models. The actual counted deaths is closer to the 151,700 figure, but deaths over average around the globe make it possible that 575,400 died. The 792,000 is the actual counted deaths for Covid. When all is said and done (three? years from now) and everything's been analyzed you can feel pretty safe in assuming that the high range for Covid is going to be around 2 million worldwide.

In the USA Covid is nearly 180,000 deaths, compared to the H1N1 final number of 12,469. The US number is already significantly higher than H1N1, so you'd have to agree that Covid is significantly more deadly than H1N1. Covid is obviously going to go higher, probably will reach at least 200,000, but the high range (based on deaths over average) is going to be at least 300,000. So there's really no comparison.

You stated that everyone is going crazy about being in danger, and everyone could possibly die. I've been following this closely and have yet to hear anyone saying anything even remotely close to that. The most any model showed dying was 2-3 million, which isn't even 1% of the US population and nothing near everyone dying. What people are going crazy about is the unwillingness of the president, some governors, and other political figures not taking this seriously and prolonging it unnecessarily. We could we be past this by now (see Spain, Italy, England, Germany, Japan, France, S. Korea), but it continues to drag on in the USA unlike hardly any other countries. Only Brazil and India compare to the USA. I'd like to think we're a lot more well developed than Brazil, but I'm not sure we are anymore. India has about fives as many people as the US, so their numbers are much less than ours per capita.
I used the higher of the ranges because I firmly believe that Covid death counts are inflated substantially. The causes of death are rarely due to Covid, yet, they are being listed as a "Covid death" if they test positive. In my mind, that is seriously f'ed up and misleading on a tremendous scale.

People are going crazy about being in danger! If they aren't, why did most major conferences cancel sports?!? Why is the mainstream media from both sides of the isle still droning on about "covid cases?" This thing is a super-sensationalized nothing burger. Now, I do know that some people have been affected, and that is terrible, however, I don't think that college, and all other school levels should be cancelled. It's complete overkill (no pun intended).


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catatac
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Re: MSU response

Post by catatac » Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:43 pm

TIrwin24 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:59 pm
iaafan wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:39 pm


It is important to recognize that the case count was 60 million for H1N1 and for Covid it's just over 5 million. This is certainly something to keep an eye on.

Another important statistical thing about these two sets of numbers is that the H1N1 death count range was determined in 2012. Three years after it made its rounds. The range is based on models. The worldwide high number is the far end of the range of models. The actual counted deaths is closer to the 151,700 figure, but deaths over average around the globe make it possible that 575,400 died. The 792,000 is the actual counted deaths for Covid. When all is said and done (three? years from now) and everything's been analyzed you can feel pretty safe in assuming that the high range for Covid is going to be around 2 million worldwide.

In the USA Covid is nearly 180,000 deaths, compared to the H1N1 final number of 12,469. The US number is already significantly higher than H1N1, so you'd have to agree that Covid is significantly more deadly than H1N1. Covid is obviously going to go higher, probably will reach at least 200,000, but the high range (based on deaths over average) is going to be at least 300,000. So there's really no comparison.

You stated that everyone is going crazy about being in danger, and everyone could possibly die. I've been following this closely and have yet to hear anyone saying anything even remotely close to that. The most any model showed dying was 2-3 million, which isn't even 1% of the US population and nothing near everyone dying. What people are going crazy about is the unwillingness of the president, some governors, and other political figures not taking this seriously and prolonging it unnecessarily. We could we be past this by now (see Spain, Italy, England, Germany, Japan, France, S. Korea), but it continues to drag on in the USA unlike hardly any other countries. Only Brazil and India compare to the USA. I'd like to think we're a lot more well developed than Brazil, but I'm not sure we are anymore. India has about fives as many people as the US, so their numbers are much less than ours per capita.
I used the higher of the ranges because I firmly believe that Covid death counts are inflated substantially. The causes of death are rarely due to Covid, yet, they are being listed as a "Covid death" if they test positive. In my mind, that is seriously f'ed up and misleading on a tremendous scale.

People are going crazy about being in danger! If they aren't, why did most major conferences cancel sports?!? Why is the mainstream media from both sides of the isle still droning on about "covid cases?" This thing is a super-sensationalized nothing burger. Now, I do know that some people have been affected, and that is terrible, however, I don't think that college, and all other school levels should be cancelled. It's complete overkill (no pun intended).
1000%. That's not even in question any more. People that die for any reason and also happen to test positive for Covid are getting Covid listed as the CAUSE of death when it is absolutely not causing the death in a lot of cases. That is messed up. People counter with, well there are also a bunch of deaths of old people that didn't get tested and they likely would have had Covid... which is true. Again though... the vast, vast majority of these are elderly people or people with underlying conditions.


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