Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

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Re: Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

Post by ibleedblue » Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:44 am

Was at a fast pitch tourney in Billings this weekend. You would have never known there was some pandemic happening. I didn’t see one mask and there were no special rules for social distancing (umpires, players, etc). The only thing they did was make fans sit and watch from anywhere but directly behind the back stop. There were very large crowds of people, and it was actually pretty awesome and felt very normal. I am willing to bet we will not see some large spike in cases from it. Judging by the tourney, everyone is “over” this virus stuff.



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Re: Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

Post by wbtfg » Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:02 am

catatac wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:27 am
wbtfg wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 3:46 pm
catatac wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 2:54 pm
Boy, I respect your right to do whatever you want but if they made it a law to always wear a face mask in public that would be a travesty.

For all the maskers, I sure as hell hope this virus doesn't morph into something much deadlier (something that actually kills young healthy people), then comes back and wipes out millions due to people not having built up any defenses.
Masks don’t protect the person wearing, it protects the people around you if you are a carrier.
Yes, that's the theory, but to say "protects" is a bit misleading. It might HELP to protect, but it might be negligible. Eyes are still not covered so should we be talking about full on face masks? Also, my personal believe is that just touching stuff is more likely to pass it on, and when we're out and about we touch a lot of stuff. So are we going to start talking about laws to make full on face masks and gloves when one leaves the house?
As I said, the idea of masks are to protect others incase you are infected. I'm not a medical person, but the last I knew, people don't cough, sneeze, breathe, out of their eyes or fingers.

Also, masks are part of the equation which also includes proper hand hygiene and social distancing.



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Re: Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

Post by iaafan » Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:09 am

catatac wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:27 am
wbtfg wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 3:46 pm
catatac wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 2:54 pm
Boy, I respect your right to do whatever you want but if they made it a law to always wear a face mask in public that would be a travesty.

For all the maskers, I sure as hell hope this virus doesn't morph into something much deadlier (something that actually kills young healthy people), then comes back and wipes out millions due to people not having built up any defenses.
Masks don’t protect the person wearing, it protects the people around you if you are a carrier.
Yes, that's the theory, but to say "protects" is a bit misleading. It might HELP to protect, but it might be negligible. Eyes are still not covered so should we be talking about full on face masks? Also, my personal believe is that just touching stuff is more likely to pass it on, and when we're out and about we touch a lot of stuff. So are we going to start talking about laws to make full on face masks and gloves when one leaves the house?
That's like say they should pass a helmet law for when you're driving your car. You just take a mask with you and keep it handy in case you're going into a crowded area or somewhere like a hospital or around someone who is susceptible, etc. Some people only wear a seatbelt when they're driving on the highway or not at all. Cars have seatbelts and airbags, along with all kinds of new and upcoming innovations that make driving safer for the driver and the other passengers and other motorists.



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Re: Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

Post by bobcat99 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:22 pm

A cloth mask doesn't do a whole lot, if we wanna be honest with ourselves. It's just a feel good thing.



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Re: Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

Post by iaafan » Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:30 pm

bobcat99 wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:22 pm
A cloth mask doesn't do a whole lot, if we wanna be honest with ourselves. It's just a feel good thing.
This is probably true. There's not consensus on how effective they are, but cloth masks are definitely not as effective as N95 masks. Likewise, lap belts aren't anywhere near as effective as a 3-point harness that race drivers where, but innovations to the lap-n-shoulder belt have come along to make up a lot of the difference. It's not inconceivable to think that there will be innovations to making comfortable masks more effective.

Overall lap/shoulder belts are 15% more effective than lap belts only.



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Re: Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

Post by bobcat99 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:15 am

iaafan wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:30 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:22 pm
A cloth mask doesn't do a whole lot, if we wanna be honest with ourselves. It's just a feel good thing.
This is probably true. There's not consensus on how effective they are, but cloth masks are definitely not as effective as N95 masks. Likewise, lap belts aren't anywhere near as effective as a 3-point harness that race drivers where, but innovations to the lap-n-shoulder belt have come along to make up a lot of the difference. It's not inconceivable to think that there will be innovations to making comfortable masks more effective.

Overall lap/shoulder belts are 15% more effective than lap belts only.
It's a poor analogy, and it is only serving to make you look silly.

Cloth does little to restrain or contain particles coming from your mouth/nose. If it was effective, professionals would actually use it due to comfort/cost. If it helps, it's at a very, very, small level.



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Re: Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

Post by iaafan » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:41 am

bobcat99 wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:15 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:30 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:22 pm
A cloth mask doesn't do a whole lot, if we wanna be honest with ourselves. It's just a feel good thing.
This is probably true. There's not consensus on how effective they are, but cloth masks are definitely not as effective as N95 masks. Likewise, lap belts aren't anywhere near as effective as a 3-point harness that race drivers where, but innovations to the lap-n-shoulder belt have come along to make up a lot of the difference. It's not inconceivable to think that there will be innovations to making comfortable masks more effective.

Overall lap/shoulder belts are 15% more effective than lap belts only.
It's a poor analogy, and it is only serving to make you look silly.

Cloth does little to restrain or contain particles coming from your mouth/nose. If it was effective, professionals would actually use it due to comfort/cost. If it helps, it's at a very, very, small level.
Point being: innovations will be made, masks will improve in comfort and effectiveness over time. Americans are at the forefront of safety innovations. The first safety devices in numerous areas weren't all that great, but innovative advances have them where they are today. Cars: seatbelts, airbags, smart technology. Bikes: helmets, elbow and knee pads. Motorcycles: helmets have evolved greatly over the years in both comfort and safety. Skin cancer: advances in mole removal and sunblock over the last 30 years have been prominent. The examples are numerous.

Aside from that, cloth masks do prevent particles from spreading. No one knows just how effective they are exactly, but they aren't as effective as a N95, which is what health professionals wear and what is advised to be worn normally, except right now there's a shortage and what N95s there are are going to health professionals. This is something that can be looked up and read about further. Mayo Clinic, Univ. of Utah and others have some good literature on it.

Your point about them not working as well was taken. A person would have to be pretty narrow-minded and uneducated to think that the current styles of facemasks won't change over time.



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Re: Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

Post by bobcat99 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:10 pm

A cloth mask is about as effective in preventing diseases as a condom with a hole in it at preventing pregnancy.

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

This study shows that cloth masks allow 97% of particles to pass through. To quote, "Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection." Maybe do a little research before you say nobody knows how effect they are. Not hard to find.

Another fun quote! "However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated."

Maybe someday they'll have better masks, but for right now, a cloth mask is nothing more than a feel good measure that does little to nothing for individuals. It could even put them at further risk.



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Re: Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

Post by catatac » Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:31 pm

bobcat99 wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:10 pm
A cloth mask is about as effective in preventing diseases as a condom with a hole in it at preventing pregnancy.

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

This study shows that cloth masks allow 97% of particles to pass through. To quote, "Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection." Maybe do a little research before you say nobody knows how effect they are. Not hard to find.

Another fun quote! "However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated."

Maybe someday they'll have better masks, but for right now, a cloth mask is nothing more than a feel good measure that does little to nothing for individuals. It could even put them at further risk.
Thanks for the sanity 99. So 1AA - are you still of the mind set we should pass a law that people have to wear masks in public? Also, are you still planning on wearing a mask in public from here on out?


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Re: Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

Post by Hawks86 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:47 pm

The authors of this article, published in 2015, have written a response to their work in light of the COVID-19 pandemic. We urge our readers to consider the response when reading the article. https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e00 ... ast-resort
Conflict of Interest:
We were the authors of the 2015 RCT , which was funded by an Australian Research Council Linkage Grant with 3M as the partner on the grant.


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Re: Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

Post by Hawks86 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:50 pm

Mayo Clinic
Cloth masks
While surgical and N95 masks are in short supply and must be reserved for health care providers, cloth masks are easy to find and can be washed and reused.

Asking everyone to wear cloth masks can help reduce the spread of the coronavirus by people who have COVID-19 but don't realize it. And countries that required face masks, testing, isolation and social distancing early in the pandemic seem to have had some success slowing the spread of the virus.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... t-20485449

CDC
CDC continues to study the spread and effects of the novel coronavirus across the United States. We now know from recent studies that a significant portion of individuals with coronavirus lack symptoms (“asymptomatic”) and that even those who eventually develop symptoms (“pre-symptomatic”) can transmit the virus to others before showing symptoms. This means that the virus can spread between people interacting in close proximity—for example, speaking, coughing, or sneezing—even if those people are not exhibiting symptoms. In light of this new evidence, CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies) especially in areas of significant community-based transmission.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... cover.html


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Re: Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

Post by wbtfg » Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:56 pm

catatac wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:31 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:10 pm
A cloth mask is about as effective in preventing diseases as a condom with a hole in it at preventing pregnancy.

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

This study shows that cloth masks allow 97% of particles to pass through. To quote, "Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection." Maybe do a little research before you say nobody knows how effect they are. Not hard to find.

Another fun quote! "However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated."

Maybe someday they'll have better masks, but for right now, a cloth mask is nothing more than a feel good measure that does little to nothing for individuals. It could even put them at further risk.
Thanks for the sanity 99. So 1AA - are you still of the mind set we should pass a law that people have to wear masks in public? Also, are you still planning on wearing a mask in public from here on out?
Unless I'm reading something incorrectly, this study is examining how well the mask protects the wearer of the mask. Right? Am I missing something?

As I've said numerous times on this thread (tap tap tap....is this thing on?), the idea of masks are to protect others incase you, the wearer, are infected. It's certainly not perfect, but as I said previously, it's part of the puzzle...combined with physical distancing, hand hygiene...etc. Masking is recommended only when physical distancing isn't possible.

Am I talking to myself here?



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Re: Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

Post by bobcat99 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:13 pm

Hawks86 wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:50 pm
Mayo Clinic
Cloth masks
While surgical and N95 masks are in short supply and must be reserved for health care providers, cloth masks are easy to find and can be washed and reused.

Asking everyone to wear cloth masks can help reduce the spread of the coronavirus by people who have COVID-19 but don't realize it. And countries that required face masks, testing, isolation and social distancing early in the pandemic seem to have had some success slowing the spread of the virus.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... t-20485449

CDC
CDC continues to study the spread and effects of the novel coronavirus across the United States. We now know from recent studies that a significant portion of individuals with coronavirus lack symptoms (“asymptomatic”) and that even those who eventually develop symptoms (“pre-symptomatic”) can transmit the virus to others before showing symptoms. This means that the virus can spread between people interacting in close proximity—for example, speaking, coughing, or sneezing—even if those people are not exhibiting symptoms. In light of this new evidence, CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies) especially in areas of significant community-based transmission.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... cover.html
Nowhere do those little briefs talk about efficacy.



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Re: Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

Post by bobcat99 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:21 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:56 pm
catatac wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:31 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:10 pm
A cloth mask is about as effective in preventing diseases as a condom with a hole in it at preventing pregnancy.

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

This study shows that cloth masks allow 97% of particles to pass through. To quote, "Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection." Maybe do a little research before you say nobody knows how effect they are. Not hard to find.

Another fun quote! "However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated."

Maybe someday they'll have better masks, but for right now, a cloth mask is nothing more than a feel good measure that does little to nothing for individuals. It could even put them at further risk.
Thanks for the sanity 99. So 1AA - are you still of the mind set we should pass a law that people have to wear masks in public? Also, are you still planning on wearing a mask in public from here on out?
Unless I'm reading something incorrectly, this study is examining how well the mask protects the wearer of the mask. Right? Am I missing something?

As I've said numerous times on this thread (tap tap tap....is this thing on?), the idea of masks are to protect others incase you, the wearer, are infected. It's certainly not perfect, but as I said previously, it's part of the puzzle...combined with physical distancing, hand hygiene...etc. Masking is recommended only when physical distancing isn't possible.

Am I talking to myself here?
If a cloth mask isn't effective at not letting particles through, how safe is it for others?



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Re: Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

Post by Hawks86 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:26 pm

A RAPID SYSTEMATIC REVIEW OF THE EFFICACY OF FACE MASKS AND RESPIRATORS AGAINST CORONAVIRUSES AND OTHER RESPIRATORY TRANSMISSIBLE VIRUSES FOR THE COMMUNITY, HEALTHCARE WORKERS AND SICK PATIENTS
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/


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Re: Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

Post by MSU01 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:29 pm

bobcat99 wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:21 pm
If a cloth mask isn't effective at not letting particles through, how safe is it for others?
From what I understand it isn't so much that the cloth mask doesn't let particles through at all, but that it can catch some of the particles a person normally breathes or coughs or sneezes into the air, and can also prevent the particles that do get through from spreading into the air as diffusely as they would without a mask. Since a person needs to be exposed to a sufficient viral load in order to become infected, reducing peoples' exposure to particles breathed/coughed/sneezed by other people is beneficial and can reduce the risk of contracting the virus even if there's no way to completely eliminate such exposure.


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Re: Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

Post by ilovethecats » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:06 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:56 pm
catatac wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:31 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:10 pm
A cloth mask is about as effective in preventing diseases as a condom with a hole in it at preventing pregnancy.

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

This study shows that cloth masks allow 97% of particles to pass through. To quote, "Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection." Maybe do a little research before you say nobody knows how effect they are. Not hard to find.

Another fun quote! "However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated."

Maybe someday they'll have better masks, but for right now, a cloth mask is nothing more than a feel good measure that does little to nothing for individuals. It could even put them at further risk.
Thanks for the sanity 99. So 1AA - are you still of the mind set we should pass a law that people have to wear masks in public? Also, are you still planning on wearing a mask in public from here on out?
Unless I'm reading something incorrectly, this study is examining how well the mask protects the wearer of the mask. Right? Am I missing something?

As I've said numerous times on this thread (tap tap tap....is this thing on?), the idea of masks are to protect others incase you, the wearer, are infected. It's certainly not perfect, but as I said previously, it's part of the puzzle...combined with physical distancing, hand hygiene...etc. Masking is recommended only when physical distancing isn't possible.

Am I talking to myself here?
And also another reason for so much division on this virus. Because people like me who haven't worn a mask and really don't want to, now gets labeled selfish and even yelled at in stores by other mask-wearing saints.

I think my overall point remains, and I was happy to hear 1aa's response. Anyone who is wearing a mask right now, for the sake of protecting others especially, BETTER be planning on wearing them from here on out for the rest of their lives. Because if they are not, they are huge hypocrites and certainly putting Corona deaths at more importance of other deaths. Which I've been saying all along.

If you're willing to wear a mask the rest of your life at all public gatherings I fully support you. If you're not willing to do that, you shouldn't be one talking up mask usage now.

Not you, wbtfg….just people in general.



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Re: Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

Post by MSU01 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:57 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:06 pm

And also another reason for so much division on this virus. Because people like me who haven't worn a mask and really don't want to, now gets labeled selfish and even yelled at in stores by other mask-wearing saints.

I think my overall point remains, and I was happy to hear 1aa's response. Anyone who is wearing a mask right now, for the sake of protecting others especially, BETTER be planning on wearing them from here on out for the rest of their lives. Because if they are not, they are huge hypocrites and certainly putting Corona deaths at more importance of other deaths. Which I've been saying all along.

If you're willing to wear a mask the rest of your life at all public gatherings I fully support you. If you're not willing to do that, you shouldn't be one talking up mask usage now.

Not you, wbtfg….just people in general.
ilovethecats, I assume you are a MSU graduate. So, I know you're smarter than this nonsense you're posting about how people wearing masks now had "BETTER" wear them for the rest of their lives. You're rejecting the idea of someone telling you how to live your life, while simultaneously telling them how they had "BETTER" permanently live theirs. Not helpful.

People are wearing masks right now because the CDC has recommended that people do so in certain situations. At some point, presumably, the CDC will drop this recommendation when the risk level decreases or is better understood. Once this happens I won't be surprised if a few people continue to wear masks, but the vast majority of mask-wearers will go back to normal and that's ok.

Don't conflate everyone who has chosen to wear masks as labeling you as selfish for not doing so. I have chosen to wear a mask in public places like the grocery store as I agree with the CDC that the potential benefits of doing so to the people around me outweigh the minor inconvenience of temporarily using the mask, but I would never say a word to or judge someone who isn't wearing one as being selfish.


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Re: Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

Post by ilovethecats » Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:30 pm

MSU01 wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:57 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:06 pm

And also another reason for so much division on this virus. Because people like me who haven't worn a mask and really don't want to, now gets labeled selfish and even yelled at in stores by other mask-wearing saints.

I think my overall point remains, and I was happy to hear 1aa's response. Anyone who is wearing a mask right now, for the sake of protecting others especially, BETTER be planning on wearing them from here on out for the rest of their lives. Because if they are not, they are huge hypocrites and certainly putting Corona deaths at more importance of other deaths. Which I've been saying all along.

If you're willing to wear a mask the rest of your life at all public gatherings I fully support you. If you're not willing to do that, you shouldn't be one talking up mask usage now.

Not you, wbtfg….just people in general.
ilovethecats, I assume you are a MSU graduate. So, I know you're smarter than this nonsense you're posting about how people wearing masks now had "BETTER" wear them for the rest of their lives. You're rejecting the idea of someone telling you how to live your life, while simultaneously telling them how they had "BETTER" permanently live theirs. Not helpful.

People are wearing masks right now because the CDC has recommended that people do so in certain situations. At some point, presumably, the CDC will drop this recommendation when the risk level decreases or is better understood. Once this happens I won't be surprised if a few people continue to wear masks, but the vast majority of mask-wearers will go back to normal and that's ok.

Don't conflate everyone who has chosen to wear masks as labeling you as selfish for not doing so. I have chosen to wear a mask in public places like the grocery store as I agree with the CDC that the potential benefits of doing so to the people around me outweigh the minor inconvenience of temporarily using the mask, but I would never say a word to or judge someone who isn't wearing one as being selfish.
I am an MSU grad. Consider myself kind of smart I suppose.

I have been personally talked down to in two different public places for being selfish not wearing a mask.

My point isn’t telling people what to do. Though that’s hilarious as we’ve all been told “what to do” for months now.

My point is very simple. We’re told right now that wearing masks saves lives, correct? We’re not wearing them for our own protection, but to keep from infecting others? Is that still correct? We also know that if we never in our lives heard of this corona virus, that there are other viruses amongst us, is that correct? If I’m correct in all this so far, than we know that wearing masks all the time will always protect people and save lives right? Am I incorrect in any of those statements?

So I believe if you are a person like 1aa, who says he’ll always wear a mask now to save lives, I’ll respect that stance. He’s not just valuing current lives who may be susceptible to this virus, but all lives susceptible of ANY virus. I completely respect that.

What I don’t respect, is people who are suddenly so insistent on masks because they think it’s the right thing to do, but aren’t willing to always take that stance. Only right now when it is the “right thing to do”. However, when they feel the threat of the virus is tiny (where I currently am with it) then they are fine removing the masks, despite the fact that doing so will still put lives at risk.

I don’t see how this view is somehow crazy or puts my intelligence or education in jeopardy. It seems like common sense to me. :-k



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Re: Alright, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

Post by MSU01 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:01 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:30 pm
I am an MSU grad. Consider myself kind of smart I suppose.

I have been personally talked down to in two different public places for being selfish not wearing a mask.

My point isn’t telling people what to do. Though that’s hilarious as we’ve all been told “what to do” for months now.

My point is very simple. We’re told right now that wearing masks saves lives, correct? We’re not wearing them for our own protection, but to keep from infecting others? Is that still correct? We also know that if we never in our lives heard of this corona virus, that there are other viruses amongst us, is that correct? If I’m correct in all this so far, than we know that wearing masks all the time will always protect people and save lives right? Am I incorrect in any of those statements?

So I believe if you are a person like 1aa, who says he’ll always wear a mask now to save lives, I’ll respect that stance. He’s not just valuing current lives who may be susceptible to this virus, but all lives susceptible of ANY virus. I completely respect that.

What I don’t respect, is people who are suddenly so insistent on masks because they think it’s the right thing to do, but aren’t willing to always take that stance. Only right now when it is the “right thing to do”. However, when they feel the threat of the virus is tiny (where I currently am with it) then they are fine removing the masks, despite the fact that doing so will still put lives at risk.

I don’t see how this view is somehow crazy or puts my intelligence or education in jeopardy. It seems like common sense to me. :-k
I think you've proven to be an intelligent person, but your argument in this specific case is over the top and not logically sound. If you've been talked down to in public for not wearing a mask, then I'd say the people who did that were wrong to do so. We've largely been given the option to decide for ourselves whether or not to wear a mask, and we've also been given the option to patronize or not patronize the small number of business that are requiring masks. We should respect the decisions of others even if we've chosen the other option, as long as the person is behaving in a reasonable way (i.e. not coughing intentionally on someone or throwing a temper tantrum in the middle of Costco).

You are arguing against what you think has been an overreaction to the severity of COVID-19 by yourself overreacting just as severely in the other direction by saying that anyone choosing to wear a mask now should wear one permanently. Sure there are other viruses but they're all different, so we don't react to them in exactly the same way. COVID-19 in its current form won't be around forever and one-size-fits-all approaches are generally going to be shortsighted, over simplistic, and unrealistic - it's why many of us wear helmets when motorcycling or skiing or bicycling but not when we're walking or hiking, even though we could fall and hit our heads doing any of these activities, right? It's ok to take a middle ground and listen to the advice of experts who know a hell of a lot more about this topic than anyone on Bobcat Nation, and then also listen to the same experts when they say it's safe to change our behavior and go back to normal again.

Anyway, in going back and reading the last few pages of this thread I think I inadvertently wandered into something that largely involved you and another poster. So I'll just leave my two cents worth here and wander back out again!


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