What If?

[ilovethecats]

I’m not a trump guy. Didn’t vote for him. Think he does some crazy things. That said, I wouldn’t want to be him right now. He’s about to make the biggest decision I can recall in my life. Guys like me and probably 50% of the people wanna open it up, get back to business as normal. The other 50% would prefer lockdown as long as it takes regardless of the economy. Regardless of what he does he’s gonna get blasted.

Well Trump is going to get blasted because he has handled this entire thing horribly. Luckily state and local government have made serious efforts to flatten the curve of COVID-19.

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/13/83279759 ... nfulfilled

I'm sure there are some things he wishes he would have done differently. As is the case often times with people in positions of power. He'll get some fair blame laid on him for sure. Probably some unfair blame as well. And like everything in life he'll get some praise he deserves as well as some praise he might not deserve.

All I know is people less than a month ago were talking about millions of people dying. Last week was supposed to be a week like Pearl Harbor and 9/11. The death toll was supposed to be devastating. Yet every single week our death toll has been lower than expected. I assume that will remain to be the case. So I guess if we're going to blame him for deaths because of inaction; by default he should get credit for the millions of lives saved!

If I'm being honest I never expected the death toll to be very high so I don't give him much credit, but also don't blame him too much. This whole thing has been a mess, but there have been many other very intelligent people who were very wrong about this whole thing, not just our president.

His daily press conferences are must-watch tv though.

[iaafan]

I’m not a trump guy. Didn’t vote for him. Think he does some crazy things. That said, I wouldn’t want to be him right now. He’s about to make the biggest decision I can recall in my life. Guys like me and probably 50% of the people wanna open it up, get back to business as normal. The other 50% would prefer lockdown as long as it takes regardless of the economy. Regardless of what he does he’s gonna get blasted.

Well Trump is going to get blasted because he has handled this entire thing horribly. Luckily state and local government have made serious efforts to flatten the curve of COVID-19.

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/13/83279759 ... nfulfilled

I'm sure there are some things he wishes he would have done differently. As is the case often times with people in positions of power. He'll get some fair blame laid on him for sure. Probably some unfair blame as well. And like everything in life he'll get some praise he deserves as well as some praise he might not deserve.

All I know is people less than a month ago were talking about millions of people dying. Last week was supposed to be a week like Pearl Harbor and 9/11. The death toll was supposed to be devastating. Yet every single week our death toll has been lower than expected. I assume that will remain to be the case. So I guess if we're going to blame him for deaths because of inaction; by default he should get credit for the millions of lives saved!

If I'm being honest I never expected the death toll to be very high so I don't give him much credit, but also don't blame him too much. This whole thing has been a mess, but there have been many other very intelligent people who were very wrong about this whole thing, not just our president.

His daily press conferences are must-watch tv though.

Trump also said there wouldn't be any cases in the United States after a few days, among numerous misstatements he's made. Based on a guess. Those instances where predictions were made that millions would die, Pearl Harbor, etc. were based on the best available data, which in those early models were based on no one self-distancing. Do you want to know what the worst possible scenario is based on evidence or the best possible scenario based on a guess?

[Cataholic]

I’m not a trump guy. Didn’t vote for him. Think he does some crazy things. That said, I wouldn’t want to be him right now. He’s about to make the biggest decision I can recall in my life. Guys like me and probably 50% of the people wanna open it up, get back to business as normal. The other 50% would prefer lockdown as long as it takes regardless of the economy. Regardless of what he does he’s gonna get blasted.

Well Trump is going to get blasted because he has handled this entire thing horribly. Luckily state and local government have made serious efforts to flatten the curve of COVID-19.

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/13/83279759 ... nfulfilled

Your dislike of Trump is affecting your ability to evaluate his body of work. Shouldn’t he get credit for having companies manufacture more masks, for closing travel from other countries and for pushing to expedite treatments such as hydrochloroquine? I recall Biden, Sanders and Cuomo saying Trump was overreacting by closing travel from countries. Cuomo even said New Yorkers should go about their everyday life, and now they are the epicenter of breakouts.

And to portray NPR as a neutral news outlet is laughable. They just recently had an article about how Biden did such a wonderful job with the economic bailout package in 2009.

It is funny how the article you quote blames Trump, but never holds any of the other entities accountable. Why aren’t we asking Walmart why they don’t have more drive through testing centers established? Why aren’t you asking about the $35 million in the relief package allocated by the Dems to the Kennedy Center and then have the Kennedy Center lay off staff?

Virtually anything you read today, you have to look at the source. Because nobody just reports the news anymore, they report their views of the situation.

[AFCAT]

We had around 2,400 deaths at Pearl Harbor and nearly 3,000 on 9-11. Last Friday, the US lost 2,057 people to Covid-19 in a single day.

[arvcat2]

Ilovethecats, I love your reasoned & rational posts and replies to the fanatical Trump haters . Keep up the good effort however challenging it may be.

[iaafan]

I’m not a trump guy. Didn’t vote for him. Think he does some crazy things. That said, I wouldn’t want to be him right now. He’s about to make the biggest decision I can recall in my life. Guys like me and probably 50% of the people wanna open it up, get back to business as normal. The other 50% would prefer lockdown as long as it takes regardless of the economy. Regardless of what he does he’s gonna get blasted.

Well Trump is going to get blasted because he has handled this entire thing horribly. Luckily state and local government have made serious efforts to flatten the curve of COVID-19.

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/13/83279759 ... nfulfilled

Your dislike of Trump is affecting your ability to evaluate his body of work. Shouldn’t he get credit for having companies manufacture more masks, for closing travel from other countries and for pushing to expedite treatments such as hydrochloroquine? I recall Biden, Sanders and Cuomo saying Trump was overreacting by closing travel from countries. Cuomo even said New Yorkers should go about their everyday life, and now they are the epicenter of breakouts.

And to portray NPR as a neutral news outlet is laughable. They just recently had an article about how Biden did such a wonderful job with the economic bailout package in 2009.

It is funny how the article you quote blames Trump, but never holds any of the other entities accountable. Why aren’t we asking Walmart why they don’t have more drive through testing centers established? Why aren’t you asking about the $35 million in the relief package allocated by the Dems to the Kennedy Center and then have the Kennedy Center lay off staff?

Virtually anything you read today, you have to look at the source. Because nobody just reports the news anymore, they report their views of the situation.

You don't get a lot of credit for simply doing what you're supposed to do. You get credit for taking action right away and being prepared and doing things that no one else, or no one outside your inner circle, thought of. Trump is doing good for having Fauci on board. You get blasted for not doing the basic things that anyone would do, which Trump hasn't done. Fortunately there are some governors that have stepped up as they're required to do. Newsome, Bullock, Inslee to name a few have taken action and gotten good results.

[ilovethecats]

I’m not a trump guy. Didn’t vote for him. Think he does some crazy things. That said, I wouldn’t want to be him right now. He’s about to make the biggest decision I can recall in my life. Guys like me and probably 50% of the people wanna open it up, get back to business as normal. The other 50% would prefer lockdown as long as it takes regardless of the economy. Regardless of what he does he’s gonna get blasted.

Well Trump is going to get blasted because he has handled this entire thing horribly. Luckily state and local government have made serious efforts to flatten the curve of COVID-19.

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/13/83279759 ... nfulfilled

I'm sure there are some things he wishes he would have done differently. As is the case often times with people in positions of power. He'll get some fair blame laid on him for sure. Probably some unfair blame as well. And like everything in life he'll get some praise he deserves as well as some praise he might not deserve.

All I know is people less than a month ago were talking about millions of people dying. Last week was supposed to be a week like Pearl Harbor and 9/11. The death toll was supposed to be devastating. Yet every single week our death toll has been lower than expected. I assume that will remain to be the case. So I guess if we're going to blame him for deaths because of inaction; by default he should get credit for the millions of lives saved!

If I'm being honest I never expected the death toll to be very high so I don't give him much credit, but also don't blame him too much. This whole thing has been a mess, but there have been many other very intelligent people who were very wrong about this whole thing, not just our president.

His daily press conferences are must-watch tv though.

Trump also said there wouldn't be any cases in the United States after a few days, among numerous misstatements he's made. Based on a guess. Those instances where predictions were made that millions would die, Pearl Harbor, etc. were based on the best available data, which in those early models were based on no one self-distancing. Do you want to know what the worst possible scenario is based on evidence or the best possible scenario based on a guess?

Ya looking back on it that was a silly statement to make. Though at the time didn't we have zero cases we were aware of? Seems like for the sake of fairness, couldn't we claim he made that statement based on evidence? Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but that seems to be kind of twisting the facts for an agenda.

Experts have been making predictions based on the best data at that time. I suppose that is fair. But they haven't been remotely close to correct yet. I just feel like these predictions are just getting a free pass because no matter how far off they are, they can always just credit the numbers to social distancing. While social distancing no doubt help prevent viruses spreading, isn't it also possible that it just isn't as dangerous as predicted a month ago?

I guess I just feel that right now, a month or so in this thing, both the best and worse case scenarios are based on the data available and guesses. I just don't find it very fair that people can "guess" that the economy will be ok and their won't be any serious ramifications going forward and "guess" that without social distancing the number of American deaths would be in the millions instead of the 28,000 or wherever we're at today.

Every guess about this virus has to date has been overblown but it seems like there's built in excuses as to why that is. It'd be like me saying that that based on the current data of Americans out of work, files for unemployment, and businesses shut down, that we're for sure going to witness the worst depression in the history of the world. Those are the facts we have right now. And then in the months and years to come when we bounce back and people tell me how wrong I was; I can always just say I definitely would have been right but we opened up the economy just in time! If we didn't open it up on such and such week....I would be right for sure! Of course I couldn't prove this. It's all after the fact.

Based on the data that we have right now, based on the cases positive, hospitalizations and deaths right now, Montana should be business as usual. That's the data that we have. Of course we are being cautionary and proactive and it's helping keep our numbers down. But right now it's the only data we have to use. If we start opening back up and the cases positive sky rocket and deaths mount up that's one thing. But as of right now we can just keep predicting tens of thousands of deaths, keep schools and businesses closed, disrupt every aspect of our lives, despite the data and chalk it up to social distancing alone.

[technoCat]

I’m not a trump guy. Didn’t vote for him. Think he does some crazy things. That said, I wouldn’t want to be him right now. He’s about to make the biggest decision I can recall in my life. Guys like me and probably 50% of the people wanna open it up, get back to business as normal. The other 50% would prefer lockdown as long as it takes regardless of the economy. Regardless of what he does he’s gonna get blasted.

Well Trump is going to get blasted because he has handled this entire thing horribly. Luckily state and local government have made serious efforts to flatten the curve of COVID-19.

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/13/83279759 ... nfulfilled

Your dislike of Trump is affecting your ability to evaluate his body of work. Shouldn’t he get credit for having companies manufacture more masks, for closing travel from other countries and for pushing to expedite treatments such as hydrochloroquine? I recall Biden, Sanders and Cuomo saying Trump was overreacting by closing travel from countries. Cuomo even said New Yorkers should go about their everyday life, and now they are the epicenter of breakouts.

And to portray NPR as a neutral news outlet is laughable. They just recently had an article about how Biden did such a wonderful job with the economic bailout package in 2009.

It is funny how the article you quote blames Trump, but never holds any of the other entities accountable. Why aren’t we asking Walmart why they don’t have more drive through testing centers established? Why aren’t you asking about the $35 million in the relief package allocated by the Dems to the Kennedy Center and then have the Kennedy Center lay off staff?

Virtually anything you read today, you have to look at the source. Because nobody just reports the news anymore, they report their views of the situation.

You don't get a lot of credit for simply doing what you're supposed to do. You get credit for taking action right away and being prepared and doing things that no one else, or no one outside your inner circle, thought of. Trump is doing good for having Fauci on board. You get blasted for not doing the basic things that anyone would do, which Trump hasn't done. Fortunately there are some governors that have stepped up as they're required to do. Newsome, Bullock, Inslee to name a few have taken action and gotten good results.

But how can you praise Newsome for his actions while simultaneously condemning Trump when Newsome has gone on record several times saying that he gives a ton of credit for his state being more prepared because of coordinated steps taken by him and Trump. Newsome HATES Trump and yet he seems to be more willing to give him credit than most. Look at how hard NY has been hit compared to CA and look at how their governors have chosen to work with the administration and tell me there aren't some pretty strong correlations there.

[ilovethecats]

We had around 2,400 deaths at Pearl Harbor and nearly 3,000 on 9-11. Last Friday, the US lost 2,057 people to Covid-19 in a single day.

Ok, that's fine. But in fairness, and I want to be VERY clear I'm not downplaying the Corona. But why are these numbers any more shocking and more important than the numbers we see every day of every year for other things? Why is 2,057 Codid deaths worse or on par with what we saw on 9/11 or Pearl Harbor? But the thousands that die every single day of cancer, heart disease, accidents etc. just ho-hum par for the course? This is what I'm always failing to grasp. What makes the tiny percentage of Covid deaths we see way more important and way less worrisome than the deaths we see every day from something else? Even though the something else kills far more?

[iaafan]

I’m not a trump guy. Didn’t vote for him. Think he does some crazy things. That said, I wouldn’t want to be him right now. He’s about to make the biggest decision I can recall in my life. Guys like me and probably 50% of the people wanna open it up, get back to business as normal. The other 50% would prefer lockdown as long as it takes regardless of the economy. Regardless of what he does he’s gonna get blasted.

Well Trump is going to get blasted because he has handled this entire thing horribly. Luckily state and local government have made serious efforts to flatten the curve of COVID-19.

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/13/83279759 ... nfulfilled

I'm sure there are some things he wishes he would have done differently. As is the case often times with people in positions of power. He'll get some fair blame laid on him for sure. Probably some unfair blame as well. And like everything in life he'll get some praise he deserves as well as some praise he might not deserve.

All I know is people less than a month ago were talking about millions of people dying. Last week was supposed to be a week like Pearl Harbor and 9/11. The death toll was supposed to be devastating. Yet every single week our death toll has been lower than expected. I assume that will remain to be the case. So I guess if we're going to blame him for deaths because of inaction; by default he should get credit for the millions of lives saved!

If I'm being honest I never expected the death toll to be very high so I don't give him much credit, but also don't blame him too much. This whole thing has been a mess, but there have been many other very intelligent people who were very wrong about this whole thing, not just our president.

His daily press conferences are must-watch tv though.

Trump also said there wouldn't be any cases in the United States after a few days, among numerous misstatements he's made. Based on a guess. Those instances where predictions were made that millions would die, Pearl Harbor, etc. were based on the best available data, which in those early models were based on no one self-distancing. Do you want to know what the worst possible scenario is based on evidence or the best possible scenario based on a guess?

Ya looking back on it that was a silly statement to make. Though at the time didn't we have zero cases we were aware of? Seems like for the sake of fairness, couldn't we claim he made that statement based on evidence? Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but that seems to be kind of twisting the facts for an agenda.

Experts have been making predictions based on the best data at that time. I suppose that is fair. But they haven't been remotely close to correct yet. I just feel like these predictions are just getting a free pass because no matter how far off they are, they can always just credit the numbers to social distancing. While social distancing no doubt help prevent viruses spreading, isn't it also possible that it just isn't as dangerous as predicted a month ago?

I guess I just feel that right now, a month or so in this thing, both the best and worse case scenarios are based on the data available and guesses. I just don't find it very fair that people can "guess" that the economy will be ok and their won't be any serious ramifications going forward and "guess" that without social distancing the number of American deaths would be in the millions instead of the 28,000 or wherever we're at today.

Every guess about this virus has to date has been overblown but it seems like there's built in excuses as to why that is. It'd be like me saying that that based on the current data of Americans out of work, files for unemployment, and businesses shut down, that we're for sure going to witness the worst depression in the history of the world. Those are the facts we have right now. And then in the months and years to come when we bounce back and people tell me how wrong I was; I can always just say I definitely would have been right but we opened up the economy just in time! If we didn't open it up on such and such week....I would be right for sure! Of course I couldn't prove this. It's all after the fact.

Based on the data that we have right now, based on the cases positive, hospitalizations and deaths right now, Montana should be business as usual. That's the data that we have. Of course we are being cautionary and proactive and it's helping keep our numbers down. But right now it's the only data we have to use. If we start opening back up and the cases positive sky rocket and deaths mount up that's one thing. But as of right now we can just keep predicting tens of thousands of deaths, keep schools and businesses closed, disrupt every aspect of our lives, despite the data and chalk it up to social distancing alone.

So you're thinking that maybe Trump's aides went out and collected data that said that it's very unlikely that coronavirus comes to the USA?

Trumps own aides were telling him about how serious this was as far back as Jan. 18, prior to that statement. So he didn't base his statement on the evidence he received. He just guessed that it would be OK, because he was hoping it would be okay. This isn't something that he should've thought he knew more about that the people working for him.

South Korea's president was being told the same thing by his aides at roughly the same time. South Korea took immediate action and has had 10,500 cases and 217 deaths. Trump didn't listen to his aides and downplayed it, the US has almost 600,000 cases and nearly 23,000 deaths.

If you were a school bus operator and the forecast was calling for icy/snow-packed roads on the roads your buses traveled on, would you ignore that and guess that they wrong and allow your buses to operate risking the lives of all your passengers and drivers?

[Cat Grad]

We had around 2,400 deaths at Pearl Harbor and nearly 3,000 on 9-11. Last Friday, the US lost 2,057 people to Covid-19 in a single day.

Ok, that's fine. But in fairness, and I want to be VERY clear I'm not downplaying the Corona. But why are these numbers any more shocking and more important than the numbers we see every day of every year for other things? Why is 2,057 Codid deaths worse or on par with what we saw on 9/11 or Pearl Harbor? But the thousands that die every single day of cancer, heart disease, accidents etc. just ho-hum par for the course? This is what I'm always failing to grasp. What makes the tiny percentage of Covid deaths we see way more important and way less worrisome than the deaths we see every day from something else? Even though the something else kills far more?

As an older military officer, I am more inclined to compare the Covid-19 Pandemic to the Spanish Flu Pandemic of 1918. When I was taking Command and General Staff, we viewed NBC training as critical--you know, the three means of inflicting mass casualties to a foe be it nuclear, biological or chemical (recall all the binary artillery rounds our military found in Iraq that Sadam had used on the Kurds?).

History reveals what the world did in spite of the horrific deaths during the Spanish Flu while also mobilizing for WWI. Lessons learned from that pandemic is by and large leading our preventative measures today. Were one to recall the evening news during Viet Nam (if you're old enough to recall) our media gave a daily death count from that war, for what it's worth as they did when we finally figured out for certain who was behind Sept. 11, 2001.

[AFCAT]

We had around 2,400 deaths at Pearl Harbor and nearly 3,000 on 9-11. Last Friday, the US lost 2,057 people to Covid-19 in a single day.

Ok, that's fine. But in fairness, and I want to be VERY clear I'm not downplaying the Corona. But why are these numbers any more shocking and more important than the numbers we see every day of every year for other things? Why is 2,057 Codid deaths worse or on par with what we saw on 9/11 or Pearl Harbor? But the thousands that die every single day of cancer, heart disease, accidents etc. just ho-hum par for the course? This is what I'm always failing to grasp. What makes the tiny percentage of Covid deaths we see way more important and way less worrisome than the deaths we see every day from something else? Even though the something else kills far more?

Someone referred to 9-11 and Pearl Harbor and I'm just giving a historical context to those events as compared to Covid-19. We do have treatments for other diseases and the death rates are still high. However, imagine what the death rates would be without cancer and heart disease treatments. Yes, car deaths are also high, but we have mitigated those death rates over the decades by taking precautions such as better roads, better designed cars, better drivers training, seatbelt laws, etc. Today, driving is safer that it's ever been and we still have a lot of deaths, but the death rate is lower than just about any year since the 1920s.

There are no real treatments for Covid-19. Everyone is just trying to mitigate a possible skyrocketing death rate by doing what we can right now, social distancing, hand washing, etc. We do the same for everything else that has a high death toll.

[91catAlum]

I’m not a trump guy. Didn’t vote for him. Think he does some crazy things. That said, I wouldn’t want to be him right now. He’s about to make the biggest decision I can recall in my life. Guys like me and probably 50% of the people wanna open it up, get back to business as normal. The other 50% would prefer lockdown as long as it takes regardless of the economy. Regardless of what he does he’s gonna get blasted.

Well Trump is going to get blasted because he has handled this entire thing horribly. Luckily state and local government have made serious efforts to flatten the curve of COVID-19.

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/13/83279759 ... nfulfilled

I'm sure there are some things he wishes he would have done differently. As is the case often times with people in positions of power. He'll get some fair blame laid on him for sure. Probably some unfair blame as well. And like everything in life he'll get some praise he deserves as well as some praise he might not deserve.

All I know is people less than a month ago were talking about millions of people dying. Last week was supposed to be a week like Pearl Harbor and 9/11. The death toll was supposed to be devastating. Yet every single week our death toll has been lower than expected. I assume that will remain to be the case. So I guess if we're going to blame him for deaths because of inaction; by default he should get credit for the millions of lives saved!

If I'm being honest I never expected the death toll to be very high so I don't give him much credit, but also don't blame him too much. This whole thing has been a mess, but there have been many other very intelligent people who were very wrong about this whole thing, not just our president.

His daily press conferences are must-watch tv though.

Trump also said there wouldn't be any cases in the United States after a few days, among numerous misstatements he's made. Based on a guess. Those instances where predictions were made that millions would die, Pearl Harbor, etc. were based on the best available data, which in those early models were based on no one self-distancing. Do you want to know what the worst possible scenario is based on evidence or the best possible scenario based on a guess?

Ya looking back on it that was a silly statement to make. Though at the time didn't we have zero cases we were aware of? Seems like for the sake of fairness, couldn't we claim he made that statement based on evidence? Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but that seems to be kind of twisting the facts for an agenda.

Experts have been making predictions based on the best data at that time. I suppose that is fair. But they haven't been remotely close to correct yet. I just feel like these predictions are just getting a free pass because no matter how far off they are, they can always just credit the numbers to social distancing. While social distancing no doubt help prevent viruses spreading, isn't it also possible that it just isn't as dangerous as predicted a month ago?

I guess I just feel that right now, a month or so in this thing, both the best and worse case scenarios are based on the data available and guesses. I just don't find it very fair that people can "guess" that the economy will be ok and their won't be any serious ramifications going forward and "guess" that without social distancing the number of American deaths would be in the millions instead of the 28,000 or wherever we're at today.

Every guess about this virus has to date has been overblown but it seems like there's built in excuses as to why that is. It'd be like me saying that that based on the current data of Americans out of work, files for unemployment, and businesses shut down, that we're for sure going to witness the worst depression in the history of the world. Those are the facts we have right now. And then in the months and years to come when we bounce back and people tell me how wrong I was; I can always just say I definitely would have been right but we opened up the economy just in time! If we didn't open it up on such and such week....I would be right for sure! Of course I couldn't prove this. It's all after the fact.

Based on the data that we have right now, based on the cases positive, hospitalizations and deaths right now, Montana should be business as usual. That's the data that we have. Of course we are being cautionary and proactive and it's helping keep our numbers down. But right now it's the only data we have to use. If we start opening back up and the cases positive sky rocket and deaths mount up that's one thing. But as of right now we can just keep predicting tens of thousands of deaths, keep schools and businesses closed, disrupt every aspect of our lives, despite the data and chalk it up to social distancing alone.

So you're thinking that maybe Trump's aides went out and collected data that said that it's very unlikely that coronavirus comes to the USA?

Trumps own aides were telling him about how serious this was as far back as Jan. 18, prior to that statement. So he didn't base his statement on the evidence he received. He just guessed that it would be OK, because he was hoping it would be okay. This isn't something that he should've thought he knew more about that the people working for him.

South Korea's president was being told the same thing by his aides at roughly the same time. South Korea took immediate action and has had 10,500 cases and 217 deaths. Trump didn't listen to his aides and downplayed it, the US has almost 600,000 cases and nearly 23,000 deaths.

If you were a school bus operator and the forecast was calling for icy/snow-packed roads on the roads your buses traveled on, would you ignore that and guess that they wrong and allow your buses to operate risking the lives of all your passengers and drivers?

Just FYI, NYC mayor told people that there was no reason to stop using public transportation, in early February. And the gal whose name escapes me now, the NYC public health official, told people to continue riding the subways and using public transportation, in February.

Who is more responsible for the massive outbreak in NYC - Trump, or these local officials? Even Pelosi was in San Fran in February encouraging people to "come down to chinatown, have dinner, its what we're doing"
Not to defend Trump, but it would make alot more sense for people to spread the blame around where its due, rather than just dump it all on Trump.

[ilovethecats]

If you were a school bus operator and the forecast was calling for icy/snow-packed roads on the roads your buses traveled on, would you ignore that and guess that they wrong and allow your buses to operate risking the lives of all your passengers and drivers?

Well first, I already agreed that Trump making a statement early on like that was silly, and he'll be blasted for it for a long time.

Second, while I assume your numbers in regards to South Korea and the US are accurate, I'd maintain that South Korea does a lot of things that I wouldn't want the US to do. There is an American way of life that'd I'd prefer we maintain as much as possible. They were also welding doors shut like China was that I don't think would fly here. That has kind of been my point the whole time.

Let's say that it wasn't this virus. Let's say it was a flower. If the government told us months ago; hey there's a new flower out there that nearly none of you are ever going to see. Some of you might see it but not even notice in passing. In the end, this flower may have the ability to kill about .065% of you, but we just can't take that risk. We'll want everyone to quit working, we want schools to close, we basically want to shut down for a year because of this new flower. Sure, there are countless other flowers out there much more dangerous but relax about those. We're just worried about this new one. I'm not sure the American people would go for that. Some countries would be given no choice.

In regards to the school bus I guess it would depend. In this scenario I assume the well-being of my riders would be top priority right? If I was told that these particular icy snow packed roads resulted in death less than 1% of the time I would be cautious I suppose, but not so cautious as to not take those roads. Especially because I know that the other roads in the area proved far deadlier than these scary snow packed ones.

[iaafan]

If you were a school bus operator and the forecast was calling for icy/snow-packed roads on the roads your buses traveled on, would you ignore that and guess that they wrong and allow your buses to operate risking the lives of all your passengers and drivers?

Well first, I already agreed that Trump making a statement early on like that was silly, and he'll be blasted for it for a long time.

Second, while I assume your numbers in regards to South Korea and the US are accurate, I'd maintain that South Korea does a lot of things that I wouldn't want the US to do. There is an American way of life that'd I'd prefer we maintain as much as possible. They were also welding doors shut like China was that I don't think would fly here. That has kind of been my point the whole time.

Let's say that it wasn't this virus. Let's say it was a flower. If the government told us months ago; hey there's a new flower out there that nearly none of you are ever going to see. Some of you might see it but not even notice in passing. In the end, this flower may have the ability to kill about .065% of you, but we just can't take that risk. We'll want everyone to quit working, we want schools to close, we basically want to shut down for a year because of this new flower. Sure, there are countless other flowers out there much more dangerous but relax about those. We're just worried about this new one. I'm not sure the American people would go for that. Some countries would be given no choice.

In regards to the school bus I guess it would depend. In this scenario I assume the well-being of my riders would be top priority right? If I was told that these particular icy snow packed roads resulted in death less than 1% of the time I would be cautious I suppose, but not so cautious as to not take those roads. Especially because I know that the other roads in the area proved far deadlier than these scary snow packed ones.

Not planning on staying in business very long i take it.

[iaafan]

I’m not a trump guy. Didn’t vote for him. Think he does some crazy things. That said, I wouldn’t want to be him right now. He’s about to make the biggest decision I can recall in my life. Guys like me and probably 50% of the people wanna open it up, get back to business as normal. The other 50% would prefer lockdown as long as it takes regardless of the economy. Regardless of what he does he’s gonna get blasted.

Well Trump is going to get blasted because he has handled this entire thing horribly. Luckily state and local government have made serious efforts to flatten the curve of COVID-19.

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/13/83279759 ... nfulfilled

I'm sure there are some things he wishes he would have done differently. As is the case often times with people in positions of power. He'll get some fair blame laid on him for sure. Probably some unfair blame as well. And like everything in life he'll get some praise he deserves as well as some praise he might not deserve.

All I know is people less than a month ago were talking about millions of people dying. Last week was supposed to be a week like Pearl Harbor and 9/11. The death toll was supposed to be devastating. Yet every single week our death toll has been lower than expected. I assume that will remain to be the case. So I guess if we're going to blame him for deaths because of inaction; by default he should get credit for the millions of lives saved!

If I'm being honest I never expected the death toll to be very high so I don't give him much credit, but also don't blame him too much. This whole thing has been a mess, but there have been many other very intelligent people who were very wrong about this whole thing, not just our president.

His daily press conferences are must-watch tv though.

Trump also said there wouldn't be any cases in the United States after a few days, among numerous misstatements he's made. Based on a guess. Those instances where predictions were made that millions would die, Pearl Harbor, etc. were based on the best available data, which in those early models were based on no one self-distancing. Do you want to know what the worst possible scenario is based on evidence or the best possible scenario based on a guess?

Ya looking back on it that was a silly statement to make. Though at the time didn't we have zero cases we were aware of? Seems like for the sake of fairness, couldn't we claim he made that statement based on evidence? Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but that seems to be kind of twisting the facts for an agenda.

Experts have been making predictions based on the best data at that time. I suppose that is fair. But they haven't been remotely close to correct yet. I just feel like these predictions are just getting a free pass because no matter how far off they are, they can always just credit the numbers to social distancing. While social distancing no doubt help prevent viruses spreading, isn't it also possible that it just isn't as dangerous as predicted a month ago?

I guess I just feel that right now, a month or so in this thing, both the best and worse case scenarios are based on the data available and guesses. I just don't find it very fair that people can "guess" that the economy will be ok and their won't be any serious ramifications going forward and "guess" that without social distancing the number of American deaths would be in the millions instead of the 28,000 or wherever we're at today.

Every guess about this virus has to date has been overblown but it seems like there's built in excuses as to why that is. It'd be like me saying that that based on the current data of Americans out of work, files for unemployment, and businesses shut down, that we're for sure going to witness the worst depression in the history of the world. Those are the facts we have right now. And then in the months and years to come when we bounce back and people tell me how wrong I was; I can always just say I definitely would have been right but we opened up the economy just in time! If we didn't open it up on such and such week....I would be right for sure! Of course I couldn't prove this. It's all after the fact.

Based on the data that we have right now, based on the cases positive, hospitalizations and deaths right now, Montana should be business as usual. That's the data that we have. Of course we are being cautionary and proactive and it's helping keep our numbers down. But right now it's the only data we have to use. If we start opening back up and the cases positive sky rocket and deaths mount up that's one thing. But as of right now we can just keep predicting tens of thousands of deaths, keep schools and businesses closed, disrupt every aspect of our lives, despite the data and chalk it up to social distancing alone.

So you're thinking that maybe Trump's aides went out and collected data that said that it's very unlikely that coronavirus comes to the USA?

Trumps own aides were telling him about how serious this was as far back as Jan. 18, prior to that statement. So he didn't base his statement on the evidence he received. He just guessed that it would be OK, because he was hoping it would be okay. This isn't something that he should've thought he knew more about that the people working for him.

South Korea's president was being told the same thing by his aides at roughly the same time. South Korea took immediate action and has had 10,500 cases and 217 deaths. Trump didn't listen to his aides and downplayed it, the US has almost 600,000 cases and nearly 23,000 deaths.

If you were a school bus operator and the forecast was calling for icy/snow-packed roads on the roads your buses traveled on, would you ignore that and guess that they wrong and allow your buses to operate risking the lives of all your passengers and drivers?

Just FYI, NYC mayor told people that there was no reason to stop using public transportation, in early February. And the gal whose name escapes me now, the NYC public health official, told people to continue riding the subways and using public transportation, in February.

Who is more responsible for the massive outbreak in NYC - Trump, or these local officials? Even Pelosi was in San Fran in February encouraging people to "come down to chinatown, have dinner, its what we're doing"
Not to defend Trump, but it would make alot more sense for people to spread the blame around where its due, rather than just dump it all on Trump.

Yes, absolutely the NYC mayor should be blamed for what's happening in NYC if what he said caused people to get infected and die as should Pelosi and I'd love to have term limits to get rid of people that are in office too long like Pelosi. However, it looks like the SF mayor over road her bad advice as SF is one of the shining examples of how to handle the virus.

[ilovethecats]

If you were a school bus operator and the forecast was calling for icy/snow-packed roads on the roads your buses traveled on, would you ignore that and guess that they wrong and allow your buses to operate risking the lives of all your passengers and drivers?

Well first, I already agreed that Trump making a statement early on like that was silly, and he'll be blasted for it for a long time.

Second, while I assume your numbers in regards to South Korea and the US are accurate, I'd maintain that South Korea does a lot of things that I wouldn't want the US to do. There is an American way of life that'd I'd prefer we maintain as much as possible. They were also welding doors shut like China was that I don't think would fly here. That has kind of been my point the whole time.

Let's say that it wasn't this virus. Let's say it was a flower. If the government told us months ago; hey there's a new flower out there that nearly none of you are ever going to see. Some of you might see it but not even notice in passing. In the end, this flower may have the ability to kill about .065% of you, but we just can't take that risk. We'll want everyone to quit working, we want schools to close, we basically want to shut down for a year because of this new flower. Sure, there are countless other flowers out there much more dangerous but relax about those. We're just worried about this new one. I'm not sure the American people would go for that. Some countries would be given no choice.

In regards to the school bus I guess it would depend. In this scenario I assume the well-being of my riders would be top priority right? If I was told that these particular icy snow packed roads resulted in death less than 1% of the time I would be cautious I suppose, but not so cautious as to not take those roads. Especially because I know that the other roads in the area proved far deadlier than these scary snow packed ones.

Not planning on staying in business very long i take it.

Funny you mention that. I was thinking about your bus scenario again.

I assume I'd be taking all my passengers to work and school. So one choice would be to avoid the snowy roads all together. Despite a very low risk of injuring my passengers, I'd force them to no longer make money or get an education. And they'd have no choice as I was the only bus in town! I'd tell them at first I would only avoid driving these roads for a month or so. I think they'd go with that. But I wonder how long they'd be fine not going to work for 3 months? 6 months? How would they do if I told them they couldn't work until 2021?

But I would give them all $100 in the next month or two to get by!

I imagine after a bit, even the most fearful of passengers would be willing to take that almost 1% risk of death to get to work, get to school and get back to living.

[91catAlum]

Just FYI, NYC mayor told people that there was no reason to stop using public transportation, in early February. And the gal whose name escapes me now, the NYC public health official, told people to continue riding the subways and using public transportation, in February.

Who is more responsible for the massive outbreak in NYC - Trump, or these local officials? Even Pelosi was in San Fran in February encouraging people to "come down to chinatown, have dinner, its what we're doing"
Not to defend Trump, but it would make alot more sense for people to spread the blame around where its due, rather than just dump it all on Trump.

Yes, absolutely the NYC mayor should be blamed for what's happening in NYC if what he said caused people to get infected and die as should Pelosi and I'd love to have term limits to get rid of people that are in office too long like Pelosi. However, it looks like the SF mayor over road her bad advice as SF is one of the shining examples of how to handle the virus.

There's no "IF" about it. This is NYC Mayor DeBlasio on March 10:
“We want to encourage” New Yorkers going out, the mayor said during a Feb. 10 MSNBC broadcast.
“If you’re under 50 & you’re healthy, which is most NYers, there’s very little threat here. This disease, even if you were to get it, basically acts like a common cold or flu. And transmission is not that easy,” de Blasio said at the time.

Agreed on term limits.

[ilovethecats]

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/poll-ame ... 09569.html

Interesting article on how people will go back to their lives whenever we try to resume back to some normalcy. I'd be interested what kind of impact these people would have on staying below the curve by staying home even when restaurants and stores start opening back up. Would there be enough people fearful of going out, that those unafraid would be able to do so without having a severe rising number of positive cases?

[iaafan]

If you were a school bus operator and the forecast was calling for icy/snow-packed roads on the roads your buses traveled on, would you ignore that and guess that they wrong and allow your buses to operate risking the lives of all your passengers and drivers?

Well first, I already agreed that Trump making a statement early on like that was silly, and he'll be blasted for it for a long time.

Second, while I assume your numbers in regards to South Korea and the US are accurate, I'd maintain that South Korea does a lot of things that I wouldn't want the US to do. There is an American way of life that'd I'd prefer we maintain as much as possible. They were also welding doors shut like China was that I don't think would fly here. That has kind of been my point the whole time.

Let's say that it wasn't this virus. Let's say it was a flower. If the government told us months ago; hey there's a new flower out there that nearly none of you are ever going to see. Some of you might see it but not even notice in passing. In the end, this flower may have the ability to kill about .065% of you, but we just can't take that risk. We'll want everyone to quit working, we want schools to close, we basically want to shut down for a year because of this new flower. Sure, there are countless other flowers out there much more dangerous but relax about those. We're just worried about this new one. I'm not sure the American people would go for that. Some countries would be given no choice.

In regards to the school bus I guess it would depend. In this scenario I assume the well-being of my riders would be top priority right? If I was told that these particular icy snow packed roads resulted in death less than 1% of the time I would be cautious I suppose, but not so cautious as to not take those roads. Especially because I know that the other roads in the area proved far deadlier than these scary snow packed ones.

Not planning on staying in business very long i take it.

Funny you mention that. I was thinking about your bus scenario again.

I assume I'd be taking all my passengers to work and school. So one choice would be to avoid the snowy roads all together. Despite a very low risk of injuring my passengers, I'd force them to no longer make money or get an education. And they'd have no choice as I was the only bus in town! I'd tell them at first I would only avoid driving these roads for a month or so. I think they'd go with that. But I wonder how long they'd be fine not going to work for 3 months? 6 months? How would they do if I told them they couldn't work until 2021?

But I would give them all $100 in the next month or two to get by!

I imagine after a bit, even the most fearful of passengers would be willing to take that almost 1% risk of death to get to work, get to school and get back to living.

That was the kind of response I was expecting the first time.

And you've played all this out before coming to your decision:

you'd run your school buses on days when the roads were deemed unsafe to drive because you feel that the students reward of education on those days outweighs the risk of driving them to school and your primary obligation to them is there schooling. You must then think school bus operators are wrong to shut down on these days. And if they did have accidents and students were killed and injured in those accidents, that you'd continue to support your decision to have the school buses running despite the conditions. It's then safe to assume that you'd be okay, since you own the bus company, with delivering the news to the parents of the deceased that it was your decision to run the buses and that you'll continue to do so since the death of that child is worth the additional education that the student received on those days that they would've missed.