Off season random *^%$

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iaafan
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Re: Off season random *^%$

Post by iaafan » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:40 am

ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:28 am
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:11 am
Other than having the NCAA take responsibility up front an make decisions for everyone I'm not sure what else Choate wants them to do. He complains about the different levels of money involved in FBS vs FCS and also brings up the PAC-12 player revolt that's growing. Does he want revenue sharing between levels and then for schools to put more money into health care and pay the athletes? Besides the parts about the NCAA not being proactive earlier this summer it seems like his rant kind of got away from him. He's not necessarily wrong in anything he's saying I'm just not sure where he's going with most of it.
I think you nailed it in your first sentence. I think that's really what Choate was saying. The kids got strung along, even though once the protocols were listed anyone paying attention knew they would be impossible to achieve. Like many people, he's probably tired of the NCAA pretending to not just be about the money, and instead have the best interest of the kids.

It's crazy that these players are now forming groups to do what they think is best, and taking a more leadership role than the adults in the NCAA.

And like me, he's probably pissed that we're still pretending we're going to play football this spring like the virus will be gone and people won't still be shouting about how dangerous it is. So the kids are going to get screwed again.

I feel for these guys.
I'm not sure what you're saying in your penultimate paragraph. I don't think that Choate thinks that at all. I think he's a realist and follows the best evidence, which is that a vaccine will be in place before spring. Given that, a large portion of the "shouting" people will be put at ease about how dangerous it is. I think this will work out well for the "kids." C'mon.



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coloradocat
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Re: Off season random *^%$

Post by coloradocat » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:47 am

ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:28 am
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:11 am
Other than having the NCAA take responsibility up front an make decisions for everyone I'm not sure what else Choate wants them to do. He complains about the different levels of money involved in FBS vs FCS and also brings up the PAC-12 player revolt that's growing. Does he want revenue sharing between levels and then for schools to put more money into health care and pay the athletes? Besides the parts about the NCAA not being proactive earlier this summer it seems like his rant kind of got away from him. He's not necessarily wrong in anything he's saying I'm just not sure where he's going with most of it.
I think you nailed it in your first sentence. I think that's really what Choate was saying. The kids got strung along, even though once the protocols were listed anyone paying attention knew they would be impossible to achieve. Like many people, he's probably tired of the NCAA pretending to not just be about the money, and instead have the best interest of the kids.

It's crazy that these players are now forming groups to do what they think is best, and taking a more leadership role than the adults in the NCAA.

And like me, he's probably pissed that we're still pretending we're going to play football this spring like the virus will be gone and people won't still be shouting about how dangerous it is. So the kids are going to get screwed again.

I feel for these guys.
Hopefully if/when spring football is cancelled it's done prior to the start of the spring semester. By mid-January everyone should know if the situation has improved to the point that at least 2/3 (not just half) of teams can play with fans in the stands and without incurring exorbitant costs to do so.

I'm glad he went on the record for an article that will reach a primarily non-FCS audience. You can definitely sense the frustration in his comments.


Eastwood, did not make it. Ball out! Recovered, by Montana State!! The Bobcats hold!!! The Bobcats hold!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfcr-MPCJKc

ilovethecats
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Re: Off season random *^%$

Post by ilovethecats » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:48 am

iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:40 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:28 am
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:11 am
Other than having the NCAA take responsibility up front an make decisions for everyone I'm not sure what else Choate wants them to do. He complains about the different levels of money involved in FBS vs FCS and also brings up the PAC-12 player revolt that's growing. Does he want revenue sharing between levels and then for schools to put more money into health care and pay the athletes? Besides the parts about the NCAA not being proactive earlier this summer it seems like his rant kind of got away from him. He's not necessarily wrong in anything he's saying I'm just not sure where he's going with most of it.
I think you nailed it in your first sentence. I think that's really what Choate was saying. The kids got strung along, even though once the protocols were listed anyone paying attention knew they would be impossible to achieve. Like many people, he's probably tired of the NCAA pretending to not just be about the money, and instead have the best interest of the kids.

It's crazy that these players are now forming groups to do what they think is best, and taking a more leadership role than the adults in the NCAA.

And like me, he's probably pissed that we're still pretending we're going to play football this spring like the virus will be gone and people won't still be shouting about how dangerous it is. So the kids are going to get screwed again.

I feel for these guys.
I'm not sure what you're saying in your penultimate paragraph. I don't think that Choate thinks that at all. I think he's a realist and follows the best evidence, which is that a vaccine will be in place before spring. Given that, a large portion of the "shouting" people will be put at ease about how dangerous it is. I think this will work out well for the "kids." C'mon.
I don't know what a penultimate paragraph is.

Other than insisting on arguing with anything I say, I really don't see how you could have an objection to this particular post?

I know for a fact, 100% percent, that the people making these decisions at MSU are frustrated in how the NCAA is handling this and isn't confident in a spring season. I'm not sure if Colter is hearing the same things but maybe he could chime in on this. You can disagree with this stance, but this came straight from those that would know. There is not confidence we'll be in a much better place than we are now when it comes time to gear up for a season.

Not sure why you quoted "kids". Is that some kind of dig that I call them kids? Another head scratcher. But I definitely hope you're correct in regards to how they'll fare. In light of what I've seen the last few months, I'm not NEAR as confident as you are. Which is quite the turnaround!



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coloradocat
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Re: Off season random *^%$

Post by coloradocat » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:52 am

iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:40 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:28 am
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:11 am
Other than having the NCAA take responsibility up front an make decisions for everyone I'm not sure what else Choate wants them to do. He complains about the different levels of money involved in FBS vs FCS and also brings up the PAC-12 player revolt that's growing. Does he want revenue sharing between levels and then for schools to put more money into health care and pay the athletes? Besides the parts about the NCAA not being proactive earlier this summer it seems like his rant kind of got away from him. He's not necessarily wrong in anything he's saying I'm just not sure where he's going with most of it.
I think you nailed it in your first sentence. I think that's really what Choate was saying. The kids got strung along, even though once the protocols were listed anyone paying attention knew they would be impossible to achieve. Like many people, he's probably tired of the NCAA pretending to not just be about the money, and instead have the best interest of the kids.

It's crazy that these players are now forming groups to do what they think is best, and taking a more leadership role than the adults in the NCAA.

And like me, he's probably pissed that we're still pretending we're going to play football this spring like the virus will be gone and people won't still be shouting about how dangerous it is. So the kids are going to get screwed again.

I feel for these guys.
I'm not sure what you're saying in your penultimate paragraph. I don't think that Choate thinks that at all. I think he's a realist and follows the best evidence, which is that a vaccine will be in place before spring. Given that, a large portion of the "shouting" people will be put at ease about how dangerous it is. I think this will work out well for the "kids." C'mon.
Will you be put at ease if there's a vaccine that's 50-60% effective but not produced in large enough quantities for low risk people (college students) to receive before next summer? That's the reality I anticipate.


Eastwood, did not make it. Ball out! Recovered, by Montana State!! The Bobcats hold!!! The Bobcats hold!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfcr-MPCJKc

ilovethecats
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Re: Off season random *^%$

Post by ilovethecats » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:54 am

coloradocat wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:47 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:28 am
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:11 am
Other than having the NCAA take responsibility up front an make decisions for everyone I'm not sure what else Choate wants them to do. He complains about the different levels of money involved in FBS vs FCS and also brings up the PAC-12 player revolt that's growing. Does he want revenue sharing between levels and then for schools to put more money into health care and pay the athletes? Besides the parts about the NCAA not being proactive earlier this summer it seems like his rant kind of got away from him. He's not necessarily wrong in anything he's saying I'm just not sure where he's going with most of it.
I think you nailed it in your first sentence. I think that's really what Choate was saying. The kids got strung along, even though once the protocols were listed anyone paying attention knew they would be impossible to achieve. Like many people, he's probably tired of the NCAA pretending to not just be about the money, and instead have the best interest of the kids.

It's crazy that these players are now forming groups to do what they think is best, and taking a more leadership role than the adults in the NCAA.

And like me, he's probably pissed that we're still pretending we're going to play football this spring like the virus will be gone and people won't still be shouting about how dangerous it is. So the kids are going to get screwed again.

I feel for these guys.
Hopefully if/when spring football is cancelled it's done prior to the start of the spring semester. By mid-January everyone should know if the situation has improved to the point that at least 2/3 (not just half) of teams can play with fans in the stands and without incurring exorbitant costs to do so.

I'm glad he went on the record for an article that will reach a primarily non-FCS audience. You can definitely sense the frustration in his comments.
Totally I agree. I'm hearing they want to have a plan in place even before then. Choate and I'm sure most in this conference feel the kids deserve to have some form of normalcy and a plan as soon as possible. I'd think we should know by November or December if a spring season is at all realistic. If it's not, they need to make that call and not keep dragging the players along.



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coloradocat
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Re: Off season random *^%$

Post by coloradocat » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:58 am

ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:54 am
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:47 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:28 am
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:11 am
Other than having the NCAA take responsibility up front an make decisions for everyone I'm not sure what else Choate wants them to do. He complains about the different levels of money involved in FBS vs FCS and also brings up the PAC-12 player revolt that's growing. Does he want revenue sharing between levels and then for schools to put more money into health care and pay the athletes? Besides the parts about the NCAA not being proactive earlier this summer it seems like his rant kind of got away from him. He's not necessarily wrong in anything he's saying I'm just not sure where he's going with most of it.
I think you nailed it in your first sentence. I think that's really what Choate was saying. The kids got strung along, even though once the protocols were listed anyone paying attention knew they would be impossible to achieve. Like many people, he's probably tired of the NCAA pretending to not just be about the money, and instead have the best interest of the kids.

It's crazy that these players are now forming groups to do what they think is best, and taking a more leadership role than the adults in the NCAA.

And like me, he's probably pissed that we're still pretending we're going to play football this spring like the virus will be gone and people won't still be shouting about how dangerous it is. So the kids are going to get screwed again.

I feel for these guys.
Hopefully if/when spring football is cancelled it's done prior to the start of the spring semester. By mid-January everyone should know if the situation has improved to the point that at least 2/3 (not just half) of teams can play with fans in the stands and without incurring exorbitant costs to do so.

I'm glad he went on the record for an article that will reach a primarily non-FCS audience. You can definitely sense the frustration in his comments.
Totally I agree. I'm hearing they want to have a plan in place even before then. Choate and I'm sure most in this conference feel the kids deserve to have some form of normalcy and a plan as soon as possible. I'd think we should know by November or December if a spring season is at all realistic. If it's not, they need to make that call and not keep dragging the players along.
Yeah, ideally they would make the decision around 12/1 (let everyone enjoy Thanksgiving before you crush their spirit again).


Eastwood, did not make it. Ball out! Recovered, by Montana State!! The Bobcats hold!!! The Bobcats hold!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfcr-MPCJKc

iaafan
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Re: Off season random *^%$

Post by iaafan » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:05 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:48 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:40 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:28 am
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:11 am
Other than having the NCAA take responsibility up front an make decisions for everyone I'm not sure what else Choate wants them to do. He complains about the different levels of money involved in FBS vs FCS and also brings up the PAC-12 player revolt that's growing. Does he want revenue sharing between levels and then for schools to put more money into health care and pay the athletes? Besides the parts about the NCAA not being proactive earlier this summer it seems like his rant kind of got away from him. He's not necessarily wrong in anything he's saying I'm just not sure where he's going with most of it.
I think you nailed it in your first sentence. I think that's really what Choate was saying. The kids got strung along, even though once the protocols were listed anyone paying attention knew they would be impossible to achieve. Like many people, he's probably tired of the NCAA pretending to not just be about the money, and instead have the best interest of the kids.

It's crazy that these players are now forming groups to do what they think is best, and taking a more leadership role than the adults in the NCAA.

And like me, he's probably pissed that we're still pretending we're going to play football this spring like the virus will be gone and people won't still be shouting about how dangerous it is. So the kids are going to get screwed again.

I feel for these guys.
I'm not sure what you're saying in your penultimate paragraph. I don't think that Choate thinks that at all. I think he's a realist and follows the best evidence, which is that a vaccine will be in place before spring. Given that, a large portion of the "shouting" people will be put at ease about how dangerous it is. I think this will work out well for the "kids." C'mon.
I don't know what a penultimate paragraph is.

Other than insisting on arguing with anything I say, I really don't see how you could have an objection to this particular post?

I know for a fact, 100% percent, that the people making these decisions at MSU are frustrated in how the NCAA is handling this and isn't confident in a spring season. I'm not sure if Colter is hearing the same things but maybe he could chime in on this. You can disagree with this stance, but this came straight from those that would know. There is not confidence we'll be in a much better place than we are now when it comes time to gear up for a season.

Not sure why you quoted "kids". Is that some kind of dig that I call them kids? Another head scratcher. But I definitely hope you're correct in regards to how they'll fare. In light of what I've seen the last few months, I'm not NEAR as confident as you are. Which is quite the turnaround!
I admire your honesty. Penultimate is second to last. Stop with the dramatics, I don't argue anything you say. Frankly, I'd think you'd take in what I said with open arms instead of being put off by it. The best evidence is that a vaccine will be in place and that bodes well for spring football. CC makes a good point regarding having enough doses to reach college students, but I don't think that's a death sentence for its effectiveness. The major concern everyone has is infecting the elderly and immune-deficient. The number of doses available will reach those folks and then some. The "then some" is likely to include athletes. Enough to fill a stadium with fans, maybe not, but we'll see.



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VimSince03
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Re: Off season random *^%$

Post by VimSince03 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:09 pm

The NCAA had 5 months to plan a fall season in pandemic conditions and they essentially did nothing but wait for others (conferences, divisions, schools, etc.) to make contingency plans. Then when it was their time to make a decision...they passed the buck to each division and their respective conferences. Its a master class in how not to lead. Choate is only relaying what every other coach and AD have already said in private discussions.
Last edited by VimSince03 on Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.


"There's two times of year for me: Football season, and waiting for football season."

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Re: Off season random *^%$

Post by bobcat99 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:14 pm

VimSince03 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:09 pm
The NCAA had 5 months to plan a fall season in pandemic conditions and they essentially did nothing but wait for others (conferences, divisions, schools, etc.) to make contingency plans. Then when it was there time to make a decision...they passed the buck to each division and their respective conferences. Its a master class in how not to lead. Choate is only relaying what every other coach and AD have already said in private discussions.
I for one am SHOCKED that the NCAA, and Mark Emmert, would once again prove to be inept. Can't wait until the NCAA finally dissolves.



ilovethecats
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Re: Off season random *^%$

Post by ilovethecats » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:23 pm

iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:05 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:48 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:40 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:28 am
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:11 am
Other than having the NCAA take responsibility up front an make decisions for everyone I'm not sure what else Choate wants them to do. He complains about the different levels of money involved in FBS vs FCS and also brings up the PAC-12 player revolt that's growing. Does he want revenue sharing between levels and then for schools to put more money into health care and pay the athletes? Besides the parts about the NCAA not being proactive earlier this summer it seems like his rant kind of got away from him. He's not necessarily wrong in anything he's saying I'm just not sure where he's going with most of it.
I think you nailed it in your first sentence. I think that's really what Choate was saying. The kids got strung along, even though once the protocols were listed anyone paying attention knew they would be impossible to achieve. Like many people, he's probably tired of the NCAA pretending to not just be about the money, and instead have the best interest of the kids.

It's crazy that these players are now forming groups to do what they think is best, and taking a more leadership role than the adults in the NCAA.

And like me, he's probably pissed that we're still pretending we're going to play football this spring like the virus will be gone and people won't still be shouting about how dangerous it is. So the kids are going to get screwed again.

I feel for these guys.
I'm not sure what you're saying in your penultimate paragraph. I don't think that Choate thinks that at all. I think he's a realist and follows the best evidence, which is that a vaccine will be in place before spring. Given that, a large portion of the "shouting" people will be put at ease about how dangerous it is. I think this will work out well for the "kids." C'mon.
I don't know what a penultimate paragraph is.

Other than insisting on arguing with anything I say, I really don't see how you could have an objection to this particular post?

I know for a fact, 100% percent, that the people making these decisions at MSU are frustrated in how the NCAA is handling this and isn't confident in a spring season. I'm not sure if Colter is hearing the same things but maybe he could chime in on this. You can disagree with this stance, but this came straight from those that would know. There is not confidence we'll be in a much better place than we are now when it comes time to gear up for a season.

Not sure why you quoted "kids". Is that some kind of dig that I call them kids? Another head scratcher. But I definitely hope you're correct in regards to how they'll fare. In light of what I've seen the last few months, I'm not NEAR as confident as you are. Which is quite the turnaround!
I admire your honesty. Penultimate is second to last. Stop with the dramatics, I don't argue anything you say. Frankly, I'd think you'd take in what I said with open arms instead of being put off by it. The best evidence is that a vaccine will be in place and that bodes well for spring football. CC makes a good point regarding having enough doses to reach college students, but I don't think that's a death sentence for its effectiveness. The major concern everyone has is infecting the elderly and immune-deficient. The number of doses available will reach those folks and then some. The "then some" is likely to include athletes. Enough to fill a stadium with fans, maybe not, but we'll see.
I don't think what I said is dramatic at all and I know for certain my view is shared to a point with the people making these decisions. Honestly I just re-read my post and can't see where anything could be taken as dramatic?

Don't get me wrong. If you're right I'll be ecstatic. I just know that as of two weeks ago our decision makers thought we were having football this fall. So vaccine or not, I'm not convinced that the overall feeling is that we'll be in a much better place in a few months where this decision needs to be made for certain.

I also know that a shortened season in the spring, without fans, makes zero sense for us. So that will be a big factor come this winter too. If it's expected we can find a way to play with fans, I think they'll do everything in their power to play. If we're doing a little bit better, maybe there is a vaccine, but it's still deemed to dangerous to play without fans, I think we'll see a full cancellation of the season. You may take this as being dramatic, but it's my opinion based on what I've heard. And one of the reasons I've heard coaches like Choate and Hauck are not terribly happy.

Guess time will tell. [-o<



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Re: Off season random *^%$

Post by ilovethecats » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:25 pm

VimSince03 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:09 pm
The NCAA had 5 months to plan a fall season in pandemic conditions and they essentially did nothing but wait for others (conferences, divisions, schools, etc.) to make contingency plans. Then when it was there time to make a decision...they passed the buck to each division and their respective conferences. Its a master class in how not to lead. Choate is only relaying what every other coach and AD have already said in private discussions.
EXACTLY!



iaafan
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Re: Off season random *^%$

Post by iaafan » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:48 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:23 pm
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:05 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:48 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:40 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:28 am
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:11 am
Other than having the NCAA take responsibility up front an make decisions for everyone I'm not sure what else Choate wants them to do. He complains about the different levels of money involved in FBS vs FCS and also brings up the PAC-12 player revolt that's growing. Does he want revenue sharing between levels and then for schools to put more money into health care and pay the athletes? Besides the parts about the NCAA not being proactive earlier this summer it seems like his rant kind of got away from him. He's not necessarily wrong in anything he's saying I'm just not sure where he's going with most of it.
I think you nailed it in your first sentence. I think that's really what Choate was saying. The kids got strung along, even though once the protocols were listed anyone paying attention knew they would be impossible to achieve. Like many people, he's probably tired of the NCAA pretending to not just be about the money, and instead have the best interest of the kids.

It's crazy that these players are now forming groups to do what they think is best, and taking a more leadership role than the adults in the NCAA.

And like me, he's probably pissed that we're still pretending we're going to play football this spring like the virus will be gone and people won't still be shouting about how dangerous it is. So the kids are going to get screwed again.

I feel for these guys.
I'm not sure what you're saying in your penultimate paragraph. I don't think that Choate thinks that at all. I think he's a realist and follows the best evidence, which is that a vaccine will be in place before spring. Given that, a large portion of the "shouting" people will be put at ease about how dangerous it is. I think this will work out well for the "kids." C'mon.
I don't know what a penultimate paragraph is.

Other than insisting on arguing with anything I say, I really don't see how you could have an objection to this particular post?

I know for a fact, 100% percent, that the people making these decisions at MSU are frustrated in how the NCAA is handling this and isn't confident in a spring season. I'm not sure if Colter is hearing the same things but maybe he could chime in on this. You can disagree with this stance, but this came straight from those that would know. There is not confidence we'll be in a much better place than we are now when it comes time to gear up for a season.

Not sure why you quoted "kids". Is that some kind of dig that I call them kids? Another head scratcher. But I definitely hope you're correct in regards to how they'll fare. In light of what I've seen the last few months, I'm not NEAR as confident as you are. Which is quite the turnaround!
I admire your honesty. Penultimate is second to last. Stop with the dramatics, I don't argue anything you say. Frankly, I'd think you'd take in what I said with open arms instead of being put off by it. The best evidence is that a vaccine will be in place and that bodes well for spring football. CC makes a good point regarding having enough doses to reach college students, but I don't think that's a death sentence for its effectiveness. The major concern everyone has is infecting the elderly and immune-deficient. The number of doses available will reach those folks and then some. The "then some" is likely to include athletes. Enough to fill a stadium with fans, maybe not, but we'll see.
I don't think what I said is dramatic at all and I know for certain my view is shared to a point with the people making these decisions. Honestly I just re-read my post and can't see where anything could be taken as dramatic?

Don't get me wrong. If you're right I'll be ecstatic. I just know that as of two weeks ago our decision makers thought we were having football this fall. So vaccine or not, I'm not convinced that the overall feeling is that we'll be in a much better place in a few months where this decision needs to be made for certain.

I also know that a shortened season in the spring, without fans, makes zero sense for us. So that will be a big factor come this winter too. If it's expected we can find a way to play with fans, I think they'll do everything in their power to play. If we're doing a little bit better, maybe there is a vaccine, but it's still deemed to dangerous to play without fans, I think we'll see a full cancellation of the season. You may take this as being dramatic, but it's my opinion based on what I've heard. And one of the reasons I've heard coaches like Choate and Hauck are not terribly happy.

Guess time will tell. [-o<
Saying I argue with anything you say is being dramatic.

I think the spring season is more likely than not to have fans. We had a good handle on the virus nationally, but dropped the ball. I think, if everyone learned their lesson, that we'll drive it down again and keep it there this time. So not only will the vaccine be a big help, but people working toward eliminating the virus will, too. We'll see.



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Re: Off season random *^%$

Post by BleedingBLue » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:05 pm

coloradocat wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:52 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:40 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:28 am
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:11 am
Other than having the NCAA take responsibility up front an make decisions for everyone I'm not sure what else Choate wants them to do. He complains about the different levels of money involved in FBS vs FCS and also brings up the PAC-12 player revolt that's growing. Does he want revenue sharing between levels and then for schools to put more money into health care and pay the athletes? Besides the parts about the NCAA not being proactive earlier this summer it seems like his rant kind of got away from him. He's not necessarily wrong in anything he's saying I'm just not sure where he's going with most of it.
I think you nailed it in your first sentence. I think that's really what Choate was saying. The kids got strung along, even though once the protocols were listed anyone paying attention knew they would be impossible to achieve. Like many people, he's probably tired of the NCAA pretending to not just be about the money, and instead have the best interest of the kids.

It's crazy that these players are now forming groups to do what they think is best, and taking a more leadership role than the adults in the NCAA.

And like me, he's probably pissed that we're still pretending we're going to play football this spring like the virus will be gone and people won't still be shouting about how dangerous it is. So the kids are going to get screwed again.

I feel for these guys.
I'm not sure what you're saying in your penultimate paragraph. I don't think that Choate thinks that at all. I think he's a realist and follows the best evidence, which is that a vaccine will be in place before spring. Given that, a large portion of the "shouting" people will be put at ease about how dangerous it is. I think this will work out well for the "kids." C'mon.
Will you be put at ease if there's a vaccine that's 50-60% effective but not produced in large enough quantities for low risk people (college students) to receive before next summer? That's the reality I anticipate.
Not to mention fewer and fewer people have said they will get the vaccine considering it's going to be just like the flu vaccine and not a total stopper. This thing isn't going away. Coronavirus is here to stay and we will have to live with it moving forward. Can't stop living because of it forever. The vaccine isn't going to make it go away and nobody is going to be forced to be vaccinated.



ilovethecats
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 4705
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: Off season random *^%$

Post by ilovethecats » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:47 pm

iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:48 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:23 pm
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:05 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:48 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:40 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:28 am
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:11 am
Other than having the NCAA take responsibility up front an make decisions for everyone I'm not sure what else Choate wants them to do. He complains about the different levels of money involved in FBS vs FCS and also brings up the PAC-12 player revolt that's growing. Does he want revenue sharing between levels and then for schools to put more money into health care and pay the athletes? Besides the parts about the NCAA not being proactive earlier this summer it seems like his rant kind of got away from him. He's not necessarily wrong in anything he's saying I'm just not sure where he's going with most of it.
I think you nailed it in your first sentence. I think that's really what Choate was saying. The kids got strung along, even though once the protocols were listed anyone paying attention knew they would be impossible to achieve. Like many people, he's probably tired of the NCAA pretending to not just be about the money, and instead have the best interest of the kids.

It's crazy that these players are now forming groups to do what they think is best, and taking a more leadership role than the adults in the NCAA.

And like me, he's probably pissed that we're still pretending we're going to play football this spring like the virus will be gone and people won't still be shouting about how dangerous it is. So the kids are going to get screwed again.

I feel for these guys.
I'm not sure what you're saying in your penultimate paragraph. I don't think that Choate thinks that at all. I think he's a realist and follows the best evidence, which is that a vaccine will be in place before spring. Given that, a large portion of the "shouting" people will be put at ease about how dangerous it is. I think this will work out well for the "kids." C'mon.
I don't know what a penultimate paragraph is.

Other than insisting on arguing with anything I say, I really don't see how you could have an objection to this particular post?

I know for a fact, 100% percent, that the people making these decisions at MSU are frustrated in how the NCAA is handling this and isn't confident in a spring season. I'm not sure if Colter is hearing the same things but maybe he could chime in on this. You can disagree with this stance, but this came straight from those that would know. There is not confidence we'll be in a much better place than we are now when it comes time to gear up for a season.

Not sure why you quoted "kids". Is that some kind of dig that I call them kids? Another head scratcher. But I definitely hope you're correct in regards to how they'll fare. In light of what I've seen the last few months, I'm not NEAR as confident as you are. Which is quite the turnaround!
I admire your honesty. Penultimate is second to last. Stop with the dramatics, I don't argue anything you say. Frankly, I'd think you'd take in what I said with open arms instead of being put off by it. The best evidence is that a vaccine will be in place and that bodes well for spring football. CC makes a good point regarding having enough doses to reach college students, but I don't think that's a death sentence for its effectiveness. The major concern everyone has is infecting the elderly and immune-deficient. The number of doses available will reach those folks and then some. The "then some" is likely to include athletes. Enough to fill a stadium with fans, maybe not, but we'll see.
I don't think what I said is dramatic at all and I know for certain my view is shared to a point with the people making these decisions. Honestly I just re-read my post and can't see where anything could be taken as dramatic?

Don't get me wrong. If you're right I'll be ecstatic. I just know that as of two weeks ago our decision makers thought we were having football this fall. So vaccine or not, I'm not convinced that the overall feeling is that we'll be in a much better place in a few months where this decision needs to be made for certain.

I also know that a shortened season in the spring, without fans, makes zero sense for us. So that will be a big factor come this winter too. If it's expected we can find a way to play with fans, I think they'll do everything in their power to play. If we're doing a little bit better, maybe there is a vaccine, but it's still deemed to dangerous to play without fans, I think we'll see a full cancellation of the season. You may take this as being dramatic, but it's my opinion based on what I've heard. And one of the reasons I've heard coaches like Choate and Hauck are not terribly happy.

Guess time will tell. [-o<
Saying I argue with anything you say is being dramatic.

I think the spring season is more likely than not to have fans. We had a good handle on the virus nationally, but dropped the ball. I think, if everyone learned their lesson, that we'll drive it down again and keep it there this time. So not only will the vaccine be a big help, but people working toward eliminating the virus will, too. We'll see.
Well I guess that all depends on a few things. If in fact we had a good handle on it nationally, I guess I would have to hear when exactly that was, and what it was that made us drop the ball.

If the best we were doing is when we locked down, I don't want to go back!

But let's say we were doing great for a period. What was it that caused us to drop the ball in your opinion? Because there seems to be a couple schools of thought from what I'm reading. If it's people not wearing masks and maybe not distancing as much as they should be then I agree we should be able to work on that and be better.

But if we started doing so bad because we opened businesses I don't think that will change. If we did bad because we never shut down international or state to state travel that won't change either. Many schools are going to open back up. People seem to be moving around more and more. I just don't see what we could do so much better this time to put us in a spot where people would consider football safer than it is right now. I could be way wrong on this I suppose.



iaafan
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 5544
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 12:44 pm

Re: Off season random *^%$

Post by iaafan » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:58 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:47 pm
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:48 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:23 pm
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:05 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:48 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:40 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:28 am
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:11 am
Other than having the NCAA take responsibility up front an make decisions for everyone I'm not sure what else Choate wants them to do. He complains about the different levels of money involved in FBS vs FCS and also brings up the PAC-12 player revolt that's growing. Does he want revenue sharing between levels and then for schools to put more money into health care and pay the athletes? Besides the parts about the NCAA not being proactive earlier this summer it seems like his rant kind of got away from him. He's not necessarily wrong in anything he's saying I'm just not sure where he's going with most of it.
I think you nailed it in your first sentence. I think that's really what Choate was saying. The kids got strung along, even though once the protocols were listed anyone paying attention knew they would be impossible to achieve. Like many people, he's probably tired of the NCAA pretending to not just be about the money, and instead have the best interest of the kids.

It's crazy that these players are now forming groups to do what they think is best, and taking a more leadership role than the adults in the NCAA.

And like me, he's probably pissed that we're still pretending we're going to play football this spring like the virus will be gone and people won't still be shouting about how dangerous it is. So the kids are going to get screwed again.

I feel for these guys.
I'm not sure what you're saying in your penultimate paragraph. I don't think that Choate thinks that at all. I think he's a realist and follows the best evidence, which is that a vaccine will be in place before spring. Given that, a large portion of the "shouting" people will be put at ease about how dangerous it is. I think this will work out well for the "kids." C'mon.
I don't know what a penultimate paragraph is.

Other than insisting on arguing with anything I say, I really don't see how you could have an objection to this particular post?

I know for a fact, 100% percent, that the people making these decisions at MSU are frustrated in how the NCAA is handling this and isn't confident in a spring season. I'm not sure if Colter is hearing the same things but maybe he could chime in on this. You can disagree with this stance, but this came straight from those that would know. There is not confidence we'll be in a much better place than we are now when it comes time to gear up for a season.

Not sure why you quoted "kids". Is that some kind of dig that I call them kids? Another head scratcher. But I definitely hope you're correct in regards to how they'll fare. In light of what I've seen the last few months, I'm not NEAR as confident as you are. Which is quite the turnaround!
I admire your honesty. Penultimate is second to last. Stop with the dramatics, I don't argue anything you say. Frankly, I'd think you'd take in what I said with open arms instead of being put off by it. The best evidence is that a vaccine will be in place and that bodes well for spring football. CC makes a good point regarding having enough doses to reach college students, but I don't think that's a death sentence for its effectiveness. The major concern everyone has is infecting the elderly and immune-deficient. The number of doses available will reach those folks and then some. The "then some" is likely to include athletes. Enough to fill a stadium with fans, maybe not, but we'll see.
I don't think what I said is dramatic at all and I know for certain my view is shared to a point with the people making these decisions. Honestly I just re-read my post and can't see where anything could be taken as dramatic?

Don't get me wrong. If you're right I'll be ecstatic. I just know that as of two weeks ago our decision makers thought we were having football this fall. So vaccine or not, I'm not convinced that the overall feeling is that we'll be in a much better place in a few months where this decision needs to be made for certain.

I also know that a shortened season in the spring, without fans, makes zero sense for us. So that will be a big factor come this winter too. If it's expected we can find a way to play with fans, I think they'll do everything in their power to play. If we're doing a little bit better, maybe there is a vaccine, but it's still deemed to dangerous to play without fans, I think we'll see a full cancellation of the season. You may take this as being dramatic, but it's my opinion based on what I've heard. And one of the reasons I've heard coaches like Choate and Hauck are not terribly happy.

Guess time will tell. [-o<
Saying I argue with anything you say is being dramatic.

I think the spring season is more likely than not to have fans. We had a good handle on the virus nationally, but dropped the ball. I think, if everyone learned their lesson, that we'll drive it down again and keep it there this time. So not only will the vaccine be a big help, but people working toward eliminating the virus will, too. We'll see.
Well I guess that all depends on a few things. If in fact we had a good handle on it nationally, I guess I would have to hear when exactly that was, and what it was that made us drop the ball.

If the best we were doing is when we locked down, I don't want to go back!

But let's say we were doing great for a period. What was it that caused us to drop the ball in your opinion? Because there seems to be a couple schools of thought from what I'm reading. If it's people not wearing masks and maybe not distancing as much as they should be then I agree we should be able to work on that and be better.

But if we started doing so bad because we opened businesses I don't think that will change. If we did bad because we never shut down international or state to state travel that won't change either. Many schools are going to open back up. People seem to be moving around more and more. I just don't see what we could do so much better this time to put us in a spot where people would consider football safer than it is right now. I could be way wrong on this I suppose.
I don't ever recall being locked down. That was just an exaggeration to scare people. It worked.

The best we were doing was in mid to late June. Total cases per day were under 20,000 and deaths were averaging around 550/day. They shot up to 70,000 and nearly 1,500, but are receding now.

Several states were too carefree. Arizona, Calif., Texas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana. Their numbers were very good, but too much gathering in large groups led to outbreaks and cases went through the roof. Fortunately progress in other areas helped keep the death count from rising proportionately. Cases are now coming down as are deaths.

Opening businesses isn't necessarily the problem. Not distancing (mainly), washing hands and wearing masks is where people have been lax. IMO keeping a safe distance is the easiest and most effective way to combat this thing.



iaafan
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 5544
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 12:44 pm

Re: Off season random *^%$

Post by iaafan » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:25 pm




User avatar
RickRund
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Re: Off season random *^%$

Post by RickRund » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:49 pm

iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:25 pm
That is great hindsight NOW..



catgradtimes2
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Posts: 48
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Re: Off season random *^%$

Post by catgradtimes2 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:54 pm

RickRund wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:49 pm
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:25 pm
That is great hindsight NOW..
Hindsight?!?!? Here's just one study that came out in May (https://science.sciencemag.org/content/ ... 1/eabb6936). I can go get you more if you'd like. This was a known strategy months ago, and one of the reasons we shutdown was to flatten the curve and put the infrastructure in place to increase testing and enable contact testing (or at least that's what we were told). Our leaders chose to go a different direction and here we are.

Hindsight what a joke.



ilovethecats
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 4705
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: Off season random *^%$

Post by ilovethecats » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:46 pm

iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:58 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:47 pm
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:48 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:23 pm
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:05 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:48 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:40 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:28 am
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:11 am
Other than having the NCAA take responsibility up front an make decisions for everyone I'm not sure what else Choate wants them to do. He complains about the different levels of money involved in FBS vs FCS and also brings up the PAC-12 player revolt that's growing. Does he want revenue sharing between levels and then for schools to put more money into health care and pay the athletes? Besides the parts about the NCAA not being proactive earlier this summer it seems like his rant kind of got away from him. He's not necessarily wrong in anything he's saying I'm just not sure where he's going with most of it.
I think you nailed it in your first sentence. I think that's really what Choate was saying. The kids got strung along, even though once the protocols were listed anyone paying attention knew they would be impossible to achieve. Like many people, he's probably tired of the NCAA pretending to not just be about the money, and instead have the best interest of the kids.

It's crazy that these players are now forming groups to do what they think is best, and taking a more leadership role than the adults in the NCAA.

And like me, he's probably pissed that we're still pretending we're going to play football this spring like the virus will be gone and people won't still be shouting about how dangerous it is. So the kids are going to get screwed again.

I feel for these guys.
I'm not sure what you're saying in your penultimate paragraph. I don't think that Choate thinks that at all. I think he's a realist and follows the best evidence, which is that a vaccine will be in place before spring. Given that, a large portion of the "shouting" people will be put at ease about how dangerous it is. I think this will work out well for the "kids." C'mon.
I don't know what a penultimate paragraph is.

Other than insisting on arguing with anything I say, I really don't see how you could have an objection to this particular post?

I know for a fact, 100% percent, that the people making these decisions at MSU are frustrated in how the NCAA is handling this and isn't confident in a spring season. I'm not sure if Colter is hearing the same things but maybe he could chime in on this. You can disagree with this stance, but this came straight from those that would know. There is not confidence we'll be in a much better place than we are now when it comes time to gear up for a season.

Not sure why you quoted "kids". Is that some kind of dig that I call them kids? Another head scratcher. But I definitely hope you're correct in regards to how they'll fare. In light of what I've seen the last few months, I'm not NEAR as confident as you are. Which is quite the turnaround!
I admire your honesty. Penultimate is second to last. Stop with the dramatics, I don't argue anything you say. Frankly, I'd think you'd take in what I said with open arms instead of being put off by it. The best evidence is that a vaccine will be in place and that bodes well for spring football. CC makes a good point regarding having enough doses to reach college students, but I don't think that's a death sentence for its effectiveness. The major concern everyone has is infecting the elderly and immune-deficient. The number of doses available will reach those folks and then some. The "then some" is likely to include athletes. Enough to fill a stadium with fans, maybe not, but we'll see.
I don't think what I said is dramatic at all and I know for certain my view is shared to a point with the people making these decisions. Honestly I just re-read my post and can't see where anything could be taken as dramatic?

Don't get me wrong. If you're right I'll be ecstatic. I just know that as of two weeks ago our decision makers thought we were having football this fall. So vaccine or not, I'm not convinced that the overall feeling is that we'll be in a much better place in a few months where this decision needs to be made for certain.

I also know that a shortened season in the spring, without fans, makes zero sense for us. So that will be a big factor come this winter too. If it's expected we can find a way to play with fans, I think they'll do everything in their power to play. If we're doing a little bit better, maybe there is a vaccine, but it's still deemed to dangerous to play without fans, I think we'll see a full cancellation of the season. You may take this as being dramatic, but it's my opinion based on what I've heard. And one of the reasons I've heard coaches like Choate and Hauck are not terribly happy.

Guess time will tell. [-o<
Saying I argue with anything you say is being dramatic.

I think the spring season is more likely than not to have fans. We had a good handle on the virus nationally, but dropped the ball. I think, if everyone learned their lesson, that we'll drive it down again and keep it there this time. So not only will the vaccine be a big help, but people working toward eliminating the virus will, too. We'll see.
Well I guess that all depends on a few things. If in fact we had a good handle on it nationally, I guess I would have to hear when exactly that was, and what it was that made us drop the ball.

If the best we were doing is when we locked down, I don't want to go back!

But let's say we were doing great for a period. What was it that caused us to drop the ball in your opinion? Because there seems to be a couple schools of thought from what I'm reading. If it's people not wearing masks and maybe not distancing as much as they should be then I agree we should be able to work on that and be better.

But if we started doing so bad because we opened businesses I don't think that will change. If we did bad because we never shut down international or state to state travel that won't change either. Many schools are going to open back up. People seem to be moving around more and more. I just don't see what we could do so much better this time to put us in a spot where people would consider football safer than it is right now. I could be way wrong on this I suppose.
I don't ever recall being locked down. That was just an exaggeration to scare people. It worked.

The best we were doing was in mid to late June. Total cases per day were under 20,000 and deaths were averaging around 550/day. They shot up to 70,000 and nearly 1,500, but are receding now.

Several states were too carefree. Arizona, Calif., Texas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana. Their numbers were very good, but too much gathering in large groups led to outbreaks and cases went through the roof. Fortunately progress in other areas helped keep the death count from rising proportionately. Cases are now coming down as are deaths.

Opening businesses isn't necessarily the problem. Not distancing (mainly), washing hands and wearing masks is where people have been lax. IMO keeping a safe distance is the easiest and most effective way to combat this thing.
Well I don't know what you want to call it if not a lockdown. All businesses were forced to close their doors except the ones they deemed essential. And we were told we were not supposed to go out unless it was to one of these essential businesses. Kids couldn't go to parks. Grieving families couldn't go to funerals. Weddings weren't allowed to take place. And kids were forced to stop going to school. So call it whatever you'd like, I know my family was basically locked down unless my wife and I went to Costco or Walmart which of course was allowed. What part of that was exaggerated and who was it supposed to scare?

I can't disagree with the rest of what you said, but I'd be really curious how it could be proven? Seems to me things started getting worse when we started opening back up again. Some was definitely big groups. But I have to assume that some was just do to people getting out and living.



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Hawks86
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Re: Off season random *^%$

Post by Hawks86 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:08 pm



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