Cost Of Attendance proposal

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ilovethecats
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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by ilovethecats » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:22 am

oedipuss wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:58 am
A few things:

1). The COA stipends have to be paid proportionate to total scholarships - you can't just hand out the same amount of money to all student-athletes. MSU offers around 220 Full Athletic scholarships for the NCAA varsity sports

2). In 2017, MSU paid 72% of the Full Cost of Attendance in its scholarship package (according to the formula for determining what is Full Cost). Meaning the total stipend it could pay at that time was about $4000 per scholarship - putting total stipend cost ~$900,000.

3). One of the reasons this next year is probably a great year to role this out is probably due to the lack of expenses for football travel in the athletic department. The football team doesn't leave the Northwest - the longest trip of the year is to Portland. That GREATLY reduces overall athletic expenditures and will provide a significant amount of revenue that could potentially play into the ever shifting balance sheet of a D-1 athletic dept.

4). You want to make this thing happen the least "painful" way possible? James Madison grossed $250,000 on beer sales just at football games last year (their first year of selling beer at games). Come up with a reasonable policy that brings beer sales to Bobcat stadium, Shroyer, and the Brick and you probably make a significant dent in FCOA.
Awesome post. Thank you.



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coloradocat
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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by coloradocat » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:24 am

AFCAT wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:38 pm
kennethnoisewater wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:27 pm
AFCAT wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:11 pm
I don’t know why UM wouldn’t be able to match.
Why do you say that? Because the BOR would require it for both schools? If not, seems like a stretch for a cash-strapped university, especially when you have to offer it for all sports.
Because the MSU athletic department would have to fund raise for it. The UM athletic department does a good job of fund raising, in fact they are better at raising scholarship money than MSU is. They also have a billionaire benefactor that likes to put his name on stuff.
Missoula is screwed when that billionaire benefactor dies unless his kids like the school as much as he does.



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wbtfg
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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by wbtfg » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:27 am

coloradocat wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:24 am
AFCAT wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:38 pm
kennethnoisewater wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:27 pm
AFCAT wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:11 pm
I don’t know why UM wouldn’t be able to match.
Why do you say that? Because the BOR would require it for both schools? If not, seems like a stretch for a cash-strapped university, especially when you have to offer it for all sports.
Because the MSU athletic department would have to fund raise for it. The UM athletic department does a good job of fund raising, in fact they are better at raising scholarship money than MSU is. They also have a billionaire benefactor that likes to put his name on stuff.
Missoula is screwed when that billionaire benefactor dies unless his kids like the school as much as he does.
It would seem they do.

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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by PHAT CAT » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:57 am

MSU doesn't have a liquor license and never will. They contract with people who do and get a percentage of the sales. Right now that is Plonk. Opening a beer garden at football and basketball games isn't going to be some magical money source. They'll make some, but the vendor "Plonk" will make by far the most. Welcome to the F'd up world of alcohol sales in Montana.



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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by Catfacts » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:12 am

I have no idea how COA works or how it would be funded. Both schools do not generate sufficient revenue to cover athletic department costs. According to financial reports filed with the NCAA, in 2018 MSU received $9,347,000 in school support and um received $6,390,000 on similar sized budgets. In other words, MSU relies more on school support to fund athletics than um does.

Major revenue sources include ticket sales - $3,010,000 at MSU and $5,345,000 at um; licensing - $2,414,000 at MSU and $3,500,000; and contributions - $4,224,000 at MSU and $3,385,000 at um. The contributions number is significant as um has historically had larger annual contributions than MSU.

As a taxpayer I would object to either university using more school support to cover COA. It will be interesting following COA and how the universities will fund it. It is not if COA is adopted, but when and how it is to be funded.



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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by thefrank1 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:24 am

Easy there Catfacts, the discussion is centered on no state funding so you don't need to worry.


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Hawks86
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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by Hawks86 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:35 am

Catfacts wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:12 am

As a taxpayer I would object to either university using more school support to cover COA. It will be interesting following COA and how the universities will fund it. It is not if COA is adopted, but when and how it is to be funded.
Do those "school funds" come from state funds or tuition? Only 30% of MSU's budget is from state funds. UM is 40%.


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oedipuss
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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by oedipuss » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:49 am

PHAT CAT wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:57 am
MSU doesn't have a liquor license and never will. They contract with people who do and get a percentage of the sales. Right now that is Plonk. Opening a beer garden at football and basketball games isn't going to be some magical money source. They'll make some, but the vendor "Plonk" will make by far the most. Welcome to the F'd up world of alcohol sales in Montana.
Oh I'm well versed in the ways of the Blue Codes. I assume whoever became the caterer of choice would actually get the rights to cater for free - with a substantial donation and corporate membership into the Bobcat Club. I'm not delusional enough to believe that alcohol sales would pay the way for FCOA but if it allows 25% of the stipends to be paid annually then it's a pretty good place to start and if it doesn't, then it's probably not worth dealing with it.



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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by topshelfthepuck » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:01 pm

oedipuss wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:49 am
PHAT CAT wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:57 am
MSU doesn't have a liquor license and never will. They contract with people who do and get a percentage of the sales. Right now that is Plonk. Opening a beer garden at football and basketball games isn't going to be some magical money source. They'll make some, but the vendor "Plonk" will make by far the most. Welcome to the F'd up world of alcohol sales in Montana.
Oh I'm well versed in the ways of the Blue Codes. I assume whoever became the caterer of choice would actually get the rights to cater for free - with a substantial donation and corporate membership into the Bobcat Club. I'm not delusional enough to believe that alcohol sales would pay the way for FCOA but if it allows 25% of the stipends to be paid annually then it's a pretty good place to start and if it doesn't, then it's probably not worth dealing with it.
MSU would also have the option to apply for a "Special Permit Application to Sell Beer and Table Wine" through the Montana Department of Revenue because they fall under an Organization: "$10 per day – 501(c) (3) Intercollegiate athletic fund-raising organization (limit 12 per year)"

This would remove the need of a liquor license from a 3rd party as well as costs associated with it. Yes, they could only serve beer, wine and seltzers for the games but there isn't as much overhead cost. Just have to get your insurance to cover the extra risk.



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kennethnoisewater
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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by kennethnoisewater » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:13 pm

topshelfthepuck wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:01 pm
oedipuss wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:49 am
PHAT CAT wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:57 am
MSU doesn't have a liquor license and never will. They contract with people who do and get a percentage of the sales. Right now that is Plonk. Opening a beer garden at football and basketball games isn't going to be some magical money source. They'll make some, but the vendor "Plonk" will make by far the most. Welcome to the F'd up world of alcohol sales in Montana.
Oh I'm well versed in the ways of the Blue Codes. I assume whoever became the caterer of choice would actually get the rights to cater for free - with a substantial donation and corporate membership into the Bobcat Club. I'm not delusional enough to believe that alcohol sales would pay the way for FCOA but if it allows 25% of the stipends to be paid annually then it's a pretty good place to start and if it doesn't, then it's probably not worth dealing with it.
MSU would also have the option to apply for a "Special Permit Application to Sell Beer and Table Wine" through the Montana Department of Revenue because they fall under an Organization: "$10 per day – 501(c) (3) Intercollegiate athletic fund-raising organization (limit 12 per year)"

This would remove the need of a liquor license from a 3rd party as well as costs associated with it. Yes, they could only serve beer, wine and seltzers for the games but there isn't as much overhead cost. Just have to get your insurance to cover the extra risk.
That's what I was going to say. You don't have to have a liquor license to sell beer and wine. As I'm sure the above poster knew, judging by their name, the Valley Ice Garden did not have a traditional liquor license. Plonk could still sell booze in the stadium club. Add liquor liability to the insurance policies and you've got it. I think there are other reasons this might not happen, but the liquor license shouldn't be the hangup.


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wapiti
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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by wapiti » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:09 pm

I assume this would also apply to the basketball teams.
The men's team could really use another tool for recruiting.



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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by msuhunter » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:13 pm

This is huge news! Where do I sign up to donate? =D^ =D^



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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by BobcatDel » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:42 pm

kennethnoisewater wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:13 pm
topshelfthepuck wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:01 pm
oedipuss wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:49 am
PHAT CAT wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:57 am
MSU doesn't have a liquor license and never will. They contract with people who do and get a percentage of the sales. Right now that is Plonk. Opening a beer garden at football and basketball games isn't going to be some magical money source. They'll make some, but the vendor "Plonk" will make by far the most. Welcome to the F'd up world of alcohol sales in Montana.
Oh I'm well versed in the ways of the Blue Codes. I assume whoever became the caterer of choice would actually get the rights to cater for free - with a substantial donation and corporate membership into the Bobcat Club. I'm not delusional enough to believe that alcohol sales would pay the way for FCOA but if it allows 25% of the stipends to be paid annually then it's a pretty good place to start and if it doesn't, then it's probably not worth dealing with it.
MSU would also have the option to apply for a "Special Permit Application to Sell Beer and Table Wine" through the Montana Department of Revenue because they fall under an Organization: "$10 per day – 501(c) (3) Intercollegiate athletic fund-raising organization (limit 12 per year)"

This would remove the need of a liquor license from a 3rd party as well as costs associated with it. Yes, they could only serve beer, wine and seltzers for the games but there isn't as much overhead cost. Just have to get your insurance to cover the extra risk.
That's what I was going to say. You don't have to have a liquor license to sell beer and wine. As I'm sure the above poster knew, judging by their name, the Valley Ice Garden did not have a traditional liquor license. Plonk could still sell booze in the stadium club. Add liquor liability to the insurance policies and you've got it. I think there are other reasons this might not happen, but the liquor license shouldn't be the hangup.
I believe they sell beer at the MSU spring rodeo in the field house. In the north concession area. At least that is what I “thought” I was drinking! How does that work?



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kennethnoisewater
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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by kennethnoisewater » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:52 pm

BobcatDel wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:42 pm
kennethnoisewater wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:13 pm
topshelfthepuck wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:01 pm
oedipuss wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:49 am
PHAT CAT wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:57 am
MSU doesn't have a liquor license and never will. They contract with people who do and get a percentage of the sales. Right now that is Plonk. Opening a beer garden at football and basketball games isn't going to be some magical money source. They'll make some, but the vendor "Plonk" will make by far the most. Welcome to the F'd up world of alcohol sales in Montana.
Oh I'm well versed in the ways of the Blue Codes. I assume whoever became the caterer of choice would actually get the rights to cater for free - with a substantial donation and corporate membership into the Bobcat Club. I'm not delusional enough to believe that alcohol sales would pay the way for FCOA but if it allows 25% of the stipends to be paid annually then it's a pretty good place to start and if it doesn't, then it's probably not worth dealing with it.
MSU would also have the option to apply for a "Special Permit Application to Sell Beer and Table Wine" through the Montana Department of Revenue because they fall under an Organization: "$10 per day – 501(c) (3) Intercollegiate athletic fund-raising organization (limit 12 per year)"

This would remove the need of a liquor license from a 3rd party as well as costs associated with it. Yes, they could only serve beer, wine and seltzers for the games but there isn't as much overhead cost. Just have to get your insurance to cover the extra risk.
That's what I was going to say. You don't have to have a liquor license to sell beer and wine. As I'm sure the above poster knew, judging by their name, the Valley Ice Garden did not have a traditional liquor license. Plonk could still sell booze in the stadium club. Add liquor liability to the insurance policies and you've got it. I think there are other reasons this might not happen, but the liquor license shouldn't be the hangup.
I believe they sell beer at the MSU spring rodeo in the field house. In the north concession area. At least that is what I “thought” I was drinking! How does that work?
I'd imagine they're just getting the permit the previous poster was talking about, then getting liquor liability coverage on a per-event basis through their insurance carrier.


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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by NorthernPlains » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:37 pm

Hawks86 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:35 am
Catfacts wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:12 am

As a taxpayer I would object to either university using more school support to cover COA. It will be interesting following COA and how the universities will fund it. It is not if COA is adopted, but when and how it is to be funded.
Do those "school funds" come from state funds or tuition? Only 30% of MSU's budget is from state funds. UM is 40%.

I believe you're confusing state funds given to each school in total versus the State's money allocated to the schools for athletics.
UM covers more of its athletic budget in house than MSU does. Someone recounted some of those numbers above.

I'm not sure this potential COA is a blessing. This is NEW MONEY which must be found EVERY YEAR, for EVERY ATHLETIC SPORT, coming from the SAME DONOR'S POCKETS which are currently being tapped to fund the stadium and field house improvements and all other athletic needs. There is truth to the old maxim "Robbing Peter to pay Paul".



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Hawks86
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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by Hawks86 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:03 pm

NorthernPlains wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:37 pm
Hawks86 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:35 am
Catfacts wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:12 am

As a taxpayer I would object to either university using more school support to cover COA. It will be interesting following COA and how the universities will fund it. It is not if COA is adopted, but when and how it is to be funded.
Do those "school funds" come from state funds or tuition? Only 30% of MSU's budget is from state funds. UM is 40%.

I believe you're confusing state funds given to each school in total versus the State's money allocated to the schools for athletics.
UM covers more of its athletic budget in house than MSU does. Someone recounted some of those numbers above.

I don't think I'm confused at all.


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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by WalkOn79 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:42 pm

BozoneCat wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:02 am
Choate is just awesomeness personified. This is great!!!
And Leon and Waded!!


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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by Cat4LifeHouseDivided » Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:09 pm

wapiti wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:09 pm
I assume this would also apply to the basketball teams.
The men's team could really use another tool for recruiting.
It would apply to all teams based on Title IX requirements



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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by RobertoGato » Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:53 pm

oedipuss wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:58 am
A few things:

1). The COA stipends have to be paid proportionate to total scholarships - you can't just hand out the same amount of money to all student-athletes. MSU offers around 220 Full Athletic scholarships for the NCAA varsity sports

2). In 2017, MSU paid 72% of the Full Cost of Attendance in its scholarship package (according to the formula for determining what is Full Cost). Meaning the total stipend it could pay at that time was about $4000 per scholarship - putting total stipend cost ~$900,000.

3). One of the reasons this next year is probably a great year to role this out is probably due to the lack of expenses for football travel in the athletic department. The football team doesn't leave the Northwest - the longest trip of the year is to Portland. That GREATLY reduces overall athletic expenditures and will provide a significant amount of revenue that could potentially play into the ever shifting balance sheet of a D-1 athletic dept.

4). You want to make this thing happen the least "painful" way possible? James Madison grossed $250,000 on beer sales just at football games last year (their first year of selling beer at games). Come up with a reasonable policy that brings beer sales to Bobcat stadium, Shroyer, and the Brick and you probably make a significant dent in FCOA.
The beer sales idea has some legs, I think.



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Re: Cost Of Attendance proposal

Post by wapiti » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:40 pm

oedipuss wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:58 am
A few things:

1). The COA stipends have to be paid proportionate to total scholarships - you can't just hand out the same amount of money to all student-athletes. MSU offers around 220 Full Athletic scholarships for the NCAA varsity sports

2). In 2017, MSU paid 72% of the Full Cost of Attendance in its scholarship package (according to the formula for determining what is Full Cost). Meaning the total stipend it could pay at that time was about $4000 per scholarship - putting total stipend cost ~$900,000.

3). One of the reasons this next year is probably a great year to role this out is probably due to the lack of expenses for football travel in the athletic department. The football team doesn't leave the Northwest - the longest trip of the year is to Portland. That GREATLY reduces overall athletic expenditures and will provide a significant amount of revenue that could potentially play into the ever shifting balance sheet of a D-1 athletic dept.

4). You want to make this thing happen the least "painful" way possible? James Madison grossed $250,000 on beer sales just at football games last year (their first year of selling beer at games). Come up with a reasonable policy that brings beer sales to Bobcat stadium, Shroyer, and the Brick and you probably make a significant dent in FCOA.
How did JMU earn after the gross sales? In reality they may have made $100,000 after the costs of selling beer.
Would MSU sell beer at basketball games and other sporting events? Would MSU have alcohol free zones for familys?
Would MSU put a reasonable price on it?



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