Cost Of Attendance proposal

[PapaG]

This thread sets a new record for men trying desperately to cover up their own insecurities by diminishing the accomplishments of female athletes.

Where is anyone diminishing the accomplishments of female athletes. Being so “woke” that you ignore basic human science doesn’t mean that the science doesn’t exist, and I’d say it ignores reality. Pretending women are the same athletically than men seems stupid to me and is based on feelings, not facts, and to me diminishes their accomplishments. It’s not diminishing their accomplishments to state that biological and physiological differences between the two sexes exist. Because, you know, they do exist. I’m all for Title X, it provides equal opportunity, but it’s also true it is a financial loser in pretty much every collegiate sport, women’s and men’s.

It’s odd to be tsk-tsked by the Woke for pointing out reality, so keep living in your dream world where you expect women to somehow evolve biologically to be able to compete with men in all sports. Talk about diminishing their athletic accomplishments with completely delusional expectations for women.

[PapaG]

No worries! To clarify, the two posts earlier on this page that mainly prompted me to post that were Uncle Rico letting us know that women can't beat his track times from back in high school, followed by the comment that women's soccer is only worth watching for "aesthetic" reasons.

So you also don’t know what “aesthetics” means in terms of game play and the art of the game. I’d say you’re a bit misogynistic for assuming what I think you assumed I meant. Your brain went there, mine did not.

Spoiler alert: I have two HS daughters, one plays lacrosse and the other soccer, and I prefer to watch women’s soccer over men’s soccer due to game flow and style of play. You know, the enjoyment of style of play, aka its AESTHETICS. Expand your vocabulary before you go smearing posters for using words you don’t understand. I also prefer to watch men’s lacrosse over women’s lacrosse because of the style of play.

[PapaG]

Also, what’s wrong about “Uncle Rico” talking about HS track times? Troy Andersen time in the 100 meters in HS would be the the second-best women’s 100 ever behind what Florence Griffith-Joyner ran decades ago while she was (allegedly ) on male steroids and HGH.

I’m not understanding how any of it “diminishes” the accomplishments of female athletes. Are we so deep in Clown World where we have to pretend differences don’t exist? To me, biological males who couldn’t make the boys’ 100 winning titles as girls “diminishes” the accomplishments of biological female athletes. Some parents are starting to wake up and realize these boys will soon be getting the Title IX scholarships and are doing something about it. They are being harassed by the Left for doing so, but in the Real World
it makes sense from a competitive and opportunity standpoint.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html

(CNN) Three Connecticut high school girls, represented by their mothers, have filed a lawsuit over a policy which allows transgender athletes to participate in sports based on their gender identity.

Selina Soule, Chelsea Mitchell, Alanna Smith and their mothers claim in their lawsuit the Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference's (CIAC) policy is a violation of the Title IX act -- which bars discrimination on the basis of sex.

The policy, they say in the suit, results in "boys displacing girls in competitive track events in Connecticut."

...

As examples, the lawsuit mentions two transgender athletes by name, Terry Miller and Andraya Yearwood, who it says began competing in the 2017 track season and brought home "15 women's state championship titles."

"The more we are told that we don't belong and should be ashamed of who we are, the fewer opportunities we have to participate in sports at all," Miller said in a statement posted on the ACLU website.

[utucats]

Also, what’s wrong about “Uncle Rico” talking about HS track times? Troy Andersen time in the 100 meters in HS would be the the second-best women’s 100 ever behind what Florence Griffith-Joyner ran decades ago while she was (allegedly ) on male steroids and HGH.

I’m not understanding how any of it “diminishes” the accomplishments of female athletes. Are we so deep in Clown World where we have to pretend differences don’t exist? To me, biological males who couldn’t make the boys’ 100 winning titles as girls “diminishes” the accomplishments of biological female athletes. Some parents are starting to wake up and realize these boys will soon be getting the Title IX scholarships and are doing something about it. They are being harassed by the Left for doing so, but in the Real World
it makes sense from a competitive and opportunity standpoint.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html

(CNN) Three Connecticut high school girls, represented by their mothers, have filed a lawsuit over a policy which allows transgender athletes to participate in sports based on their gender identity.

Selina Soule, Chelsea Mitchell, Alanna Smith and their mothers claim in their lawsuit the Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference's (CIAC) policy is a violation of the Title IX act -- which bars discrimination on the basis of sex.

The policy, they say in the suit, results in "boys displacing girls in competitive track events in Connecticut."

...

As examples, the lawsuit mentions two transgender athletes by name, Terry Miller and Andraya Yearwood, who it says began competing in the 2017 track season and brought home "15 women's state championship titles."

"The more we are told that we don't belong and should be ashamed of who we are, the fewer opportunities we have to participate in sports at all," Miller said in a statement posted on the ACLU website.

100% This type of delusion is why we live in a world where someone who has the benefit of a testosterone filled childhood can grow some piggy tails and then compete against women. It’s funny that those who are concerned about diminishing female athletics are also inadvertently perpetuating a society where if Mike Tyson had felt pretty in his late teens he could have spent his career beating up women. Mankind is so weak minded that in the name of equality we’d trade fairness and safety for thousands of women so a few dozen troubled individuals can feel like it’s ok to wear a dress despite being born with testicles.

Acknowledging the fact that sports are dominated by men does not diminish women. It just accepts the fact that while women can play sports, even at the college and professional level, they will never be able to compete equally against men who have thousands of years of evolution that have made the physical attributes to advantageous for there to be a level playing field.

Accepting facts allows us to acknowledge that women’s sports need to be part of the college experience and that it will take us operating at a loss for some of these programs to exist. How much of a loss is the real question here. Accepting the fact that men are superior athletically also helps us protect women from being forced to compete against those that are now, or have ever been, males. If you have the mindset that everyone is equal then I guess it doesn’t matter to you if your daughter has to compete against a man but since I’m so pro woman I’d like to ensure that they compete in a manner that is fair.

Whether or not an individual prefers women’s soccer or b-ball to men’s is missing the point. As a society we prefer men’s sports which is why they are more marketable and profitable. This once again begs the question- Why do we need to offer FCOA to a program that is not profitable in order to offer it to athletes in a program that is? I understand due to title IX but simple logic shows us how flawed the system is.

If everything is truly equal then show me one time that any other program received the fan support that our football team did against our easiest home opponent on any given Saturday during college football season. We love our MEN’S college football program. It’s where our effort, attention and cash go. If the market ruled these programs it might be the only athletic program we’d have.

Those are the facts and no amount of BS equality talk is going to change that.

[utucats]

This thread sets a new record for men trying desperately to cover up their own insecurities by diminishing the accomplishments of female athletes.

I don’t think so. Reads to me as an interesting discussion about whether a system aimed at achieving fairness and providing opportunities to college athletes is succeeding.

Most interesting thread on here during the long and brutal offseason. Of course that’s just my opinion but I thought this place existed for sharing those?

[CelticCat]

I'll take "Threads that need to be Split" for $500 Alex.

[Bobcatsinmso]

I'll take "Threads that need to be Split" for $500 Alex.

Split many ways apparently, I vote we bring it back to the beer vs seltzer part of the thread.....

[PapaG]

I'll take "Threads that need to be Split" for $500 Alex.

Why? FCOA is an additional multi-million dollar budget effort annually spread across all MSU scholarship sports, and while it may help the football program along with the women’s and men’s basketball programs in terms of recruiting, I don’t even know if that’s the case other than people thinking it may be so.

Missoula U struggles to attract new top-notch students and if MSU has FCOA, UM will get it, too. Shouldn’t the priority be on academics? Thanks to President Cruzado and many, many alumni, MSU already has an academic advantage in recruiting student-athletes.

I’m anti-FCOA at this point if it means it can’t be subjectively applied to the football program and the two basketball programs. Any other scholarship program that loses money should not get FCOA.

[MSU01]

This thread sets a new record for men trying desperately to cover up their own insecurities by diminishing the accomplishments of female athletes.

Where is anyone diminishing the accomplishments of female athletes. Being so “woke” that you ignore basic human science doesn’t mean that the science doesn’t exist, and I’d say it ignores reality. Pretending women are the same athletically than men seems stupid to me and is based on feelings, not facts, and to me diminishes their accomplishments. It’s not diminishing their accomplishments to state that biological and physiological differences between the two sexes exist. Because, you know, they do exist. I’m all for Title X, it provides equal opportunity, but it’s also true it is a financial loser in pretty much every collegiate sport, women’s and men’s.

It’s odd to be tsk-tsked by the Woke for pointing out reality, so keep living in your dream world where you expect women to somehow evolve biologically to be able to compete with men in all sports. Talk about diminishing their athletic accomplishments with completely delusional expectations for women.

Constantly feeling the need to point out "but men are better!!" is what is diminishing the accomplishments of female athletes. From a purely physical standpoint of course it's true, but why can't people just celebrate elite female athletes like the US women's soccer team (and their 3 World Cup championships and 4 Olympic Gold Medals) without falling over each other to be the first to post the link to a years old article about the team losing a meaningless scrimmage against a U-15 boys team?

[ilovethecats]

Constantly feeling the need to point out "but men are better!!" is what is diminishing the accomplishments of female athletes.

Of course if people “constantly feel the need to point out men are better than women” would diminish their accomplishments. But I’m not sure that’s what’s being done.

I think if what you say is true, then you need to start at the top. Why do we have men’s hoops and women’s hoops? Why not just one team and who made this rule because they are diminishing women.

Why do we have softball for women and baseball for men? They should play together because otherwise it’s diminishing the accomplishments of women.

Gymnastics has been mentioned. I’d go a step farther and take any Olympic sport, summer and winter, and men and women should be competing together. Whoever decided, and whenever it was decided to split them up was diminishing the accomplishments of women!

And don’t even get me started on golf. Who the hell said that women should be able to tee their ball up 50 yards in front of me. That is a slap in the face to women. And to me as many women are way better at golf than me....

Point is, one can make very obvious distinctions between men and women’s sports and understand that just because men and women shouldn’t compete against one another in many sports, this in no way takes anything from the accomplishments of women. There are millions of amazingly athletic and talented girls and women; and men’s athleticism and talents doesn’t change that fact.

[MSU01]

In itself, men and women competing separately does not diminish the womens' accomplishments any more than it diminishes the accomplishments of high school athletes by having them complete separately from pro and college leagues. Here's what does diminish their accomplishments. Whenever someone brings up how great Serena Williams is, some men for whatever reason feel the need to say "But she'd lose badly to Roger Federer!". Whenever someone brings up the dominance of the U.S. women's soccer team, some dudes who must have it bookmarked immediately post the link about them losing a scrimmage to a U-15 boys team. Tell me why is that necessary when we could just celebrate their successes, or alternatively just ignore them if we're not interested in the sport?

[coloradocat]

In itself, men and women competing separately does not diminish the womens' accomplishments any more than it diminishes the accomplishments of high school athletes by having them complete separately from pro and college leagues. Here's what does diminish their accomplishments. Whenever someone brings up how great Serena Williams is, some men for whatever reason feel the need to say "But she'd lose badly to Roger Federer!". Whenever someone brings up the dominance of the U.S. women's soccer team, some dudes who must have it bookmarked immediately post the link about them losing a scrimmage to a U-15 boys team. Tell me why is that necessary when we could just celebrate their successes, or alternatively just ignore them if we're not interested in the sport?

The two examples you gave aren't helping you as much as you think. Serena and the USWNT get those responses because they tend to be arrogant (Lindsey Vonn falls into this category as well). They think just because they are dominant in their sport (especially relative to US men in tennis/soccer) that they would beat the top men in head to head competition. They are so full of themselves that they forget biology/physiology. When people bring up men in relation to them it's often to knock them down a peg because their heads have gotten too big.

Mikaela Shiffrin is my favorite skier but I would never say she's the greatest skier of all time. She's the greatest female skier of all time. She seems humble enough to understand this as well and I don't anticipate her pushing to race with the men.

[grizzh8r]

Also, what’s wrong about “Uncle Rico” talking about HS track times? Troy Andersen time in the 100 meters in HS would be the the second-best women’s 100 ever behind what Florence Griffith-Joyner ran decades ago while she was (allegedly ) on male steroids and HGH.

I’m not understanding how any of it “diminishes” the accomplishments of female athletes. Are we so deep in Clown World where we have to pretend differences don’t exist? To me, biological males who couldn’t make the boys’ 100 winning titles as girls “diminishes” the accomplishments of biological female athletes. Some parents are starting to wake up and realize these boys will soon be getting the Title IX scholarships and are doing something about it. They are being harassed by the Left for doing so, but in the Real World
it makes sense from a competitive and opportunity standpoint.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html

(CNN) Three Connecticut high school girls, represented by their mothers, have filed a lawsuit over a policy which allows transgender athletes to participate in sports based on their gender identity.

Selina Soule, Chelsea Mitchell, Alanna Smith and their mothers claim in their lawsuit the Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference's (CIAC) policy is a violation of the Title IX act -- which bars discrimination on the basis of sex.

The policy, they say in the suit, results in "boys displacing girls in competitive track events in Connecticut."

...

As examples, the lawsuit mentions two transgender athletes by name, Terry Miller and Andraya Yearwood, who it says began competing in the 2017 track season and brought home "15 women's state championship titles."

"The more we are told that we don't belong and should be ashamed of who we are, the fewer opportunities we have to participate in sports at all," Miller said in a statement posted on the ACLU website.

100% This type of delusion is why we live in a world where someone who has the benefit of a testosterone filled childhood can grow some piggy tails and then compete against women. It’s funny that those who are concerned about diminishing female athletics are also inadvertently perpetuating a society where if Mike Tyson had felt pretty in his late teens he could have spent his career beating up women. Mankind is so weak minded that in the name of equality we’d trade fairness and safety for thousands of women so a few dozen troubled individuals can feel like it’s ok to wear a dress despite being born with testicles.

Acknowledging the fact that sports are dominated by men does not diminish women. It just accepts the fact that while women can play sports, even at the college and professional level, they will never be able to compete equally against men who have thousands of years of evolution that have made the physical attributes to advantageous for there to be a level playing field.

Accepting facts allows us to acknowledge that women’s sports need to be part of the college experience and that it will take us operating at a loss for some of these programs to exist. How much of a loss is the real question here. Accepting the fact that men are superior athletically also helps us protect women from being forced to compete against those that are now, or have ever been, males. If you have the mindset that everyone is equal then I guess it doesn’t matter to you if your daughter has to compete against a man but since I’m so pro woman I’d like to ensure that they compete in a manner that is fair.

Whether or not an individual prefers women’s soccer or b-ball to men’s is missing the point. As a society we prefer men’s sports which is why they are more marketable and profitable. This once again begs the question- Why do we need to offer FCOA to a program that is not profitable in order to offer it to athletes in a program that is? I understand due to title IX but simple logic shows us how flawed the system is.

If everything is truly equal then show me one time that any other program received the fan support that our football team did against our easiest home opponent on any given Saturday during college football season. We love our MEN’S college football program. It’s where our effort, attention and cash go. If the market ruled these programs it might be the only athletic program we’d have.

Those are the facts and no amount of BS equality talk is going to change that.

I know it was bordering on off topic, but holy crap Batman, I nominate this one for POTY!

Also, just one little reminder for everyone... Women are from Venus, men are from Mars. We are physically, genetically, physiologically, and psychologically different. And that's perfectly fine!

[grizzh8r]

Also, what’s wrong about “Uncle Rico” talking about HS track times? Troy Andersen time in the 100 meters in HS would be the the second-best women’s 100 ever behind what Florence Griffith-Joyner ran decades ago while she was (allegedly ) on male steroids and HGH.

I’m not understanding how any of it “diminishes” the accomplishments of female athletes. Are we so deep in Clown World where we have to pretend differences don’t exist? To me, biological males who couldn’t make the boys’ 100 winning titles as girls “diminishes” the accomplishments of biological female athletes. Some parents are starting to wake up and realize these boys will soon be getting the Title IX scholarships and are doing something about it. They are being harassed by the Left for doing so, but in the Real World
it makes sense from a competitive and opportunity standpoint.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html

(CNN) Three Connecticut high school girls, represented by their mothers, have filed a lawsuit over a policy which allows transgender athletes to participate in sports based on their gender identity.

Selina Soule, Chelsea Mitchell, Alanna Smith and their mothers claim in their lawsuit the Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference's (CIAC) policy is a violation of the Title IX act -- which bars discrimination on the basis of sex.

The policy, they say in the suit, results in "boys displacing girls in competitive track events in Connecticut."

...

As examples, the lawsuit mentions two transgender athletes by name, Terry Miller and Andraya Yearwood, who it says began competing in the 2017 track season and brought home "15 women's state championship titles."

"The more we are told that we don't belong and should be ashamed of who we are, the fewer opportunities we have to participate in sports at all," Miller said in a statement posted on the ACLU website.

100% This type of delusion is why we live in a world where someone who has the benefit of a testosterone filled childhood can grow some piggy tails and then compete against women. It’s funny that those who are concerned about diminishing female athletics are also inadvertently perpetuating a society where if Mike Tyson had felt pretty in his late teens he could have spent his career beating up women. Mankind is so weak minded that in the name of equality we’d trade fairness and safety for thousands of women so a few dozen troubled individuals can feel like it’s ok to wear a dress despite being born with testicles.

Acknowledging the fact that sports are dominated by men does not diminish women. It just accepts the fact that while women can play sports, even at the college and professional level, they will never be able to compete equally against men who have thousands of years of evolution that have made the physical attributes to advantageous for there to be a level playing field.

Accepting facts allows us to acknowledge that women’s sports need to be part of the college experience and that it will take us operating at a loss for some of these programs to exist. How much of a loss is the real question here. Accepting the fact that men are superior athletically also helps us protect women from being forced to compete against those that are now, or have ever been, males. If you have the mindset that everyone is equal then I guess it doesn’t matter to you if your daughter has to compete against a man but since I’m so pro woman I’d like to ensure that they compete in a manner that is fair.

Whether or not an individual prefers women’s soccer or b-ball to men’s is missing the point. As a society we prefer men’s sports which is why they are more marketable and profitable. This once again begs the question- Why do we need to offer FCOA to a program that is not profitable in order to offer it to athletes in a program that is? I understand due to title IX but simple logic shows us how flawed the system is.

If everything is truly equal then show me one time that any other program received the fan support that our football team did against our easiest home opponent on any given Saturday during college football season. We love our MEN’S college football program. It’s where our effort, attention and cash go. If the market ruled these programs it might be the only athletic program we’d have.

Those are the facts and no amount of BS equality talk is going to change that.

I know it was bordering on off topic, but holy crap Batman, I nominate this one for POTY!

Also, just one little reminder for everyone... Women are from Venus, men are from Mars. We are physically, genetically, physiologically, and psychologically different. And that's perfectly fine!

[ilovethecats]

In itself, men and women competing separately does not diminish the womens' accomplishments any more than it diminishes the accomplishments of high school athletes by having them complete separately from pro and college leagues. Here's what does diminish their accomplishments. Whenever someone brings up how great Serena Williams is, some men for whatever reason feel the need to say "But she'd lose badly to Roger Federer!". Whenever someone brings up the dominance of the U.S. women's soccer team, some dudes who must have it bookmarked immediately post the link about them losing a scrimmage to a U-15 boys team. Tell me why is that necessary when we could just celebrate their successes, or alternatively just ignore them if we're not interested in the sport?

Well I agree with that. Some people are just asshats. There will ALWAYS be a few select men that have nothing else to do but diminish the accomplishments of women. I don't think that was happening on this thread.

I will point out that this goes both ways as well though. When we have a woman who is just dominant in her sport, I've seen fans compare her to men in the same sport and proclaim they would beat the men. As a matter of fact, I remember a lot of talk about Ronda Roussy getting in the ring with Mayweather when she was dominating. Without trying to diminish her accomplishments, that would have been an absolute blood bath but there's no way it ever would have happened anyway.

The point is people make these comparisons because there IS a difference between men and women. And the comparisons often go both ways.

[PapaG]

In itself, men and women competing separately does not diminish the womens' accomplishments any more than it diminishes the accomplishments of high school athletes by having them complete separately from pro and college leagues. Here's what does diminish their accomplishments. Whenever someone brings up how great Serena Williams is, some men for whatever reason feel the need to say "But she'd lose badly to Roger Federer!". Whenever someone brings up the dominance of the U.S. women's soccer team, some dudes who must have it bookmarked immediately post the link about them losing a scrimmage to a U-15 boys team. Tell me why is that necessary when we could just celebrate their successes, or alternatively just ignore them if we're not interested in the sport?

Are you going to have the courage to directly address me, or are you going to keep smearing me based on your own biases against women athletes. I already posted I enjoy women’s soccer more than men’s. Tell me how pointing out the fact that the USWNT “diminishes” their success, please.

Your mind went somewhere else when another poster and I mention aesthetics, I knew what you meant about it, and now you’re flailing about being passive-aggressive without having a real discussion. It’s cowardly. Are you a coward? Address me directly with your complaints about my posts.

[PapaG]

I’m curious how many posters here would pitch in for FCOA for all scholarship athletes in every MSU sport.

Football and both basketball programs, sure. Also, outside of the two D-1 basketball programs, no other MSU team has mandatory full-ride scholarships. How is FCOA distributed to all other sports?

[PapaG]

In itself, men and women competing separately does not diminish the womens' accomplishments any more than it diminishes the accomplishments of high school athletes by having them complete separately from pro and college leagues. Here's what does diminish their accomplishments. Whenever someone brings up how great Serena Williams is, some men for whatever reason feel the need to say "But she'd lose badly to Roger Federer!". Whenever someone brings up the dominance of the U.S. women's soccer team, some dudes who must have it bookmarked immediately post the link about them losing a scrimmage to a U-15 boys team. Tell me why is that necessary when we could just celebrate their successes, or alternatively just ignore them if we're not interested in the sport?

Well I agree with that. Some people are just asshats. There will ALWAYS be a few select men that have nothing else to do but diminish the accomplishments of women. I don't think that was happening on this thread.

I will point out that this goes both ways as well though. When we have a woman who is just dominant in her sport, I've seen fans compare her to men in the same sport and proclaim they would beat the men. As a matter of fact, I remember a lot of talk about Ronda Roussy getting in the ring with Mayweather when she was dominating. Without trying to diminish her accomplishments, that would have been an absolute blood bath but there's no way it ever would have happened anyway.

The point is people make these comparisons because there IS a difference between men and women. And the comparisons often go both ways.

Are you also accusing me of “diminishing” the accomplishments of female athletes? MSU01 is making a lot of unfounded accusations yet seems hesitant to back up his smears toward me and a few others.

[kmax]

I'll take "Threads that need to be Split" for $500 Alex.

Split many ways apparently, I vote we bring it back to the beer vs seltzer part of the thread.....

Yep I thought about splitting it and then looked at 8 pages and 160 posts and I just don’t have the desire in the offseason to sort through which posts should go where.

[AFCAT]

I’m curious how many posters here would pitch in for FCOA for all scholarship athletes in every MSU sport.

Football and both basketball programs, sure. Also, outside of the two D-1 basketball programs, no other MSU team has mandatory full-ride scholarships. How is FCOA distributed to all other sports?

I donate to just about everything at MSU; cheer squad, track and field, football, scholarship fund, facilities plan, free playoff tickets, QB Club, etc. I’ll donate to FCOA regardless of who it goes to.

Here is a good link to use if anyone would like to donate.

https://www.msuaf.org/s/1584/form1.aspx ... &pgid=1356