NDSU should go to the FBS!

[TomCat88]

Wow....I am at a total loss. So if Bama was winning year after year, even though they play in the SEC, your telling me it would up to the teams in the Pac 12 to do their job and beat them. No, it would mean the teams within the SEC would have to step it up, knock them out of the playoffs......oh wait, kind of like what happened this year.

It's not just other SEC teams that have beaten Alabama in the years they didn't win the NC though. In 2 of the last 4 years, it was Clemson that beat them, not one of their fellow SEC members. Your argument makes no sense. You seem to be implying that since no teams from any other conferences have been able to beat them in the playoffs, the only way to prevent them from continuing to win NC, is for more MVFC teams to beat them in the regular season, so they either miss the playoffs completely, or at least lose 2 or 3 conference games so they won't have home field advantage all through the playoffs. If that ever happened, the odds are that it would just be another MVFC team that would win the NC, rather than a team from another conference. And I wouldn't be too quick to bet against them, even if they did have to play a game or 2 on the road. After all, they are 8-0 in championship games on a neutral field. And do you really think that we would have had a legitimate chance of beating NDSU this year, if the game had been in Bozeman rather than Fargo? It may not have been quite as much of a blowout, but it still wouldn't have been close, no matter where the game was played.

If MVFC teams had more balance, then NDSU wouldn’t always be seeded as high and would be forced to go on the road in the playoffs. Unlike the playoffs for the P5, which only has 4 teams, they probably won’t get knocked out of the playoffs so the aim needs to be getting them out of 1-2-3-4 seeds and their conference foes are in the best position do that. Teams from other conferences only get three shots a year to impact NDSU’s overall record and they usually don’t play highly rated non conference teams. So it’s up SDSU, N. Iowa, etc to catch them and put them in a less prominent position. Then non-conference teams will have increased chance of knocking them out. Losing regular season (the MVFC teams get the most cracks at this) games will also decrease NDSU’s confidence, which will also aid their playoff opponents.

[91catAlum]

You guys all need to quit bitching and complaining about NDSU winning and just focus on getting better as a program.

What focusing techniques do you suggest?

Increase fundraising so you can provide FCOA and increase salaries for coaches.

I don't think coaches salaries are paid via fundraising, they are paid by the state just like all other employees of the University, all the way up to the president. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong?

[AFCAT]

You guys all need to quit bitching and complaining about NDSU winning and just focus on getting better as a program.

What focusing techniques do you suggest?

Increase fundraising so you can provide FCOA and increase salaries for coaches.

I don't think coaches salaries are paid via fundraising, they are paid by the state just like all other employees of the University, all the way up to the president. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong?

I’m sure base salaries are. Bonuses can come from a variety of sources, including the quarterback club. I donated to the assistant coach bonus fund this year.

[2011BisonAlumni]

Wow....I am at a total loss. So if Bama was winning year after year, even though they play in the SEC, your telling me it would up to the teams in the Pac 12 to do their job and beat them. No, it would mean the teams within the SEC would have to step it up, knock them out of the playoffs......oh wait, kind of like what happened this year.

It's not just other SEC teams that have beaten Alabama in the years they didn't win the NC though. In 2 of the last 4 years, it was Clemson that beat them, not one of their fellow SEC members. Your argument makes no sense. You seem to be implying that since no teams from any other conferences have been able to beat them in the playoffs, the only way to prevent them from continuing to win NC, is for more MVFC teams to beat them in the regular season, so they either miss the playoffs completely, or at least lose 2 or 3 conference games so they won't have home field advantage all through the playoffs. If that ever happened, the odds are that it would just be another MVFC team that would win the NC, rather than a team from another conference. And I wouldn't be too quick to bet against them, even if they did have to play a game or 2 on the road. After all, they are 8-0 in championship games on a neutral field. And do you really think that we would have had a legitimate chance of beating NDSU this year, if the game had been in Bozeman rather than Fargo? It may not have been quite as much of a blowout, but it still wouldn't have been close, no matter where the game was played.

If MVFC teams had more balance, then NDSU wouldn’t always be seeded as high and would be forced to go on the road in the playoffs. Unlike the playoffs for the P5, which only has 4 teams, they probably won’t get knocked out of the playoffs so the aim needs to be getting them out of 1-2-3-4 seeds and their conference foes are in the best position do that. Teams from other conferences only get three shots a year to impact NDSU’s overall record and they usually don’t play highly rated non conference teams. So it’s up SDSU, N. Iowa, etc to catch them and put them in a less prominent position. Then non-conference teams will have increased chance of knocking them out. Losing regular season (the MVFC teams get the most cracks at this) games will also decrease NDSU’s confidence, which will also aid their playoff opponents.

Lol.....love how this narrative was created this year of the MVFC not having balance.....the conference with more playoff appearances, semi-final appearances, championship appearances and highest Sagarin rating over the past 9 years than any other conference.

You guys have this new narrative that NDSU is getting all these championships by getting a home seed and somehow now, due to the fact the Big Sky had several 9-3 teams this year, that your teams were all just “beat down” and the losses happened because of home field advantage.

The Big Sky has not had teams remotely capable of being a legit contender these past 9 years. How many years did EWU have a top 2 seed and piss it away in the semi-finals? As a conference, they have been a distant third to the MVFC and CAA.

Look, NDSU is just a good program. You guys think the game would have been different if played in Bozeman, but it wouldn’t have been. The outcome would have been the same. One team had better players and coaches than the other team.

8 different teams have played NDSU on a neutral field and 8 times NDSU has come out on top. If their success was due to home field advantage, you’d think they would have been beat one year in the championship game.

If home field advantage is your special sauce, then simply run the table or have 1 loss each year, get a top 2 seed and avoid NDSU. See what happens in Frisco.

[Cat Grad]

How about the teams in the MVFC step up their game. Imagine the difference if NDSU came into the playoffs without home field advantage. How long were the Griz a powerhouse in the Big Sky? Then look at what happened (not talking about the issues with the law) the other schools in the Big Sky started getting better. They hired better coaches and built better facilities. It is only a matter of time.

How about teams in the Big Sky step up their game?

MVFC has had three different programs in the championship game since 2014 and has clearly been the best conference in the FCS this past decade.

ISU has a championship in 2014 if they don’t play NDSU and who the heck knows how many SDSU would have won by now.

You guys all need to quit bitching and complaining about NDSU winning and just focus on getting better as a program. JC is doing it the right way and you will eventually be there IMO.

I believe you have some valid points relative your thoughts concerning certain small college football programs; however, I'd urge you to face reality. You are in a podunk football and basketball conference relegated to little more than scraps off the table crumbs just as the Big Sigh Conference is; in fact, the conference MSU is affiliated with is surrounded with institutions led by individuals with the mindset that did this:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... xperiment/

If that mid-90 BYU 14-1 Cotton Bowl team didn't teach small college wannabes anything, I don't know what will. (I know, BYU won the National Championship in 85--before the BCS). FCS and the podunk wannabe conferences that offer more team sports to their student-athletes ought to merge. This arguing about which podunk conference is better is stupidity personified; e.g., keep changing conferences (and conference member institutions) and think you'll gain a modicum of respect by those who control college football and the billions in revenue it generates, you're delusional. Both our conferences are little more than stepping stones for those on the way up the food chain in their chosen profession be it academics, administration or coaching. That's reality.

[WalkOn79]

You guys all need to quit bitching and complaining about NDSU winning and just focus on getting better as a program.

What focusing techniques do you suggest?

Let's start with getting our facilities built

[John K]

Wow....I am at a total loss. So if Bama was winning year after year, even though they play in the SEC, your telling me it would up to the teams in the Pac 12 to do their job and beat them. No, it would mean the teams within the SEC would have to step it up, knock them out of the playoffs......oh wait, kind of like what happened this year.

It's not just other SEC teams that have beaten Alabama in the years they didn't win the NC though. In 2 of the last 4 years, it was Clemson that beat them, not one of their fellow SEC members. Your argument makes no sense. You seem to be implying that since no teams from any other conferences have been able to beat them in the playoffs, the only way to prevent them from continuing to win NC, is for more MVFC teams to beat them in the regular season, so they either miss the playoffs completely, or at least lose 2 or 3 conference games so they won't have home field advantage all through the playoffs. If that ever happened, the odds are that it would just be another MVFC team that would win the NC, rather than a team from another conference. And I wouldn't be too quick to bet against them, even if they did have to play a game or 2 on the road. After all, they are 8-0 in championship games on a neutral field. And do you really think that we would have had a legitimate chance of beating NDSU this year, if the game had been in Bozeman rather than Fargo? It may not have been quite as much of a blowout, but it still wouldn't have been close, no matter where the game was played.

If MVFC teams had more balance, then NDSU wouldn’t always be seeded as high and would be forced to go on the road in the playoffs. Unlike the playoffs for the P5, which only has 4 teams, they probably won’t get knocked out of the playoffs so the aim needs to be getting them out of 1-2-3-4 seeds and their conference foes are in the best position do that. Teams from other conferences only get three shots a year to impact NDSU’s overall record and they usually don’t play highly rated non conference teams. So it’s up SDSU, N. Iowa, etc to catch them and put them in a less prominent position. Then non-conference teams will have increased chance of knocking them out. Losing regular season (the MVFC teams get the most cracks at this) games will also decrease NDSU’s confidence, which will also aid their playoff opponents.

Sorry Tom, but I still think it's a ridiculous argument. NDSU's MVFC rivals are already holding up their end better than the rest of the country (including 7 FBS teams) in terms of competing against them. If you count non-conference games and playoff games, NDSU has played almost as many games against teams from other
conferences as they've played against MVFC teams, over the last 9 seasons, and 6 of their 8 losses during that time have come in conference play (to 5 different teams, which refutes the lack of depth argument). The MVFC has not only been more competitive against them than the rest of the FCS universe, they've been more competitive against them than the FBS teams they've played. From 2000-2009, UM lost only 7 BSC games in 10 years, which is almost identical to NDSU's 6 conference losses in 9 years from 2011-2019. But UM's dominance of their BSC rivals during that time (which enabled them to have home field advantage throughout the playoffs most of those years) obviously didn't grease the skids down the path to multiple national championships, as they only won a single title during that 10 year run when they thoroughly dominated the BSC. They were clearly far better than the rest of the Big Sky, but not necessarily better than the best teams from other conferences. NDSU has been far better than their conference rivals, just like they've been far better than the best teams in the rest of the country as well. UM's postseason results in the 2000's prove that blowing through your conference schedule relatively unscathed year after year, is no guarantee that you'll win the NC every year. Plus NDSU has still had to seal the deal on a neutral field in the chipper, against theoretically one of the top 2 teams in the nation, and they're a perfect 8-0 in those neutral field games.

[TomCat88]

Wow....I am at a total loss. So if Bama was winning year after year, even though they play in the SEC, your telling me it would up to the teams in the Pac 12 to do their job and beat them. No, it would mean the teams within the SEC would have to step it up, knock them out of the playoffs......oh wait, kind of like what happened this year.

It's not just other SEC teams that have beaten Alabama in the years they didn't win the NC though. In 2 of the last 4 years, it was Clemson that beat them, not one of their fellow SEC members. Your argument makes no sense. You seem to be implying that since no teams from any other conferences have been able to beat them in the playoffs, the only way to prevent them from continuing to win NC, is for more MVFC teams to beat them in the regular season, so they either miss the playoffs completely, or at least lose 2 or 3 conference games so they won't have home field advantage all through the playoffs. If that ever happened, the odds are that it would just be another MVFC team that would win the NC, rather than a team from another conference. And I wouldn't be too quick to bet against them, even if they did have to play a game or 2 on the road. After all, they are 8-0 in championship games on a neutral field. And do you really think that we would have had a legitimate chance of beating NDSU this year, if the game had been in Bozeman rather than Fargo? It may not have been quite as much of a blowout, but it still wouldn't have been close, no matter where the game was played.

If MVFC teams had more balance, then NDSU wouldn’t always be seeded as high and would be forced to go on the road in the playoffs. Unlike the playoffs for the P5, which only has 4 teams, they probably won’t get knocked out of the playoffs so the aim needs to be getting them out of 1-2-3-4 seeds and their conference foes are in the best position do that. Teams from other conferences only get three shots a year to impact NDSU’s overall record and they usually don’t play highly rated non conference teams. So it’s up SDSU, N. Iowa, etc to catch them and put them in a less prominent position. Then non-conference teams will have increased chance of knocking them out. Losing regular season (the MVFC teams get the most cracks at this) games will also decrease NDSU’s confidence, which will also aid their playoff opponents.

Sorry Tom, but I still think it's a ridiculous argument. NDSU's MVFC rivals are already holding up their end better than the rest of the country (including 7 FBS teams) in terms of competing against them. If you count non-conference games and playoff games, NDSU has played almost as many games against teams from other
conferences as they've played against MVFC teams, over the last 9 seasons, and 6 of their 8 losses during that time have come in conference play (to 5 different teams, which refutes the lack of depth argument). The MVFC has not only been more competitive against them than the rest of the FCS universe, they've been more competitive against them than the FBS teams they've played. From 2000-2009, UM lost only 7 BSC games in 10 years, which is almost identical to NDSU's 6 conference losses in 9 years from 2011-2019. But UM's dominance of their BSC rivals during that time (which enabled them to have home field advantage throughout the playoffs most of those years) obviously didn't grease the skids down the path to multiple national championships, as they only won a single title during that 10 year run when they thoroughly dominated the BSC. They were clearly far better than the rest of the Big Sky, but not necessarily better than the best teams from other conferences. NDSU has been far better than their conference rivals, just like they've been far better than the best teams in the rest of the country as well. UM's postseason results in the 2000's prove that blowing through your conference schedule relatively unscathed year after year, is no guarantee that you'll win the NC every year. Plus NDSU has still had to seal the deal on a neutral field in the chipper, against theoretically one of the top 2 teams in the nation, and they're a perfect 8-0 in those neutral field games.

It’s not. When a team from a good conference is way better than those good teams then it’s an imbalanced conference. It’s very simple. As long as NDSU is way better than its conference foes, it will be a top two seed and reach the championship game.

I don’t expect anyone will catch them in the near future. I don’t expect anyone will go to Fargo and beat them. So there you have it.

[TomCat88]

Wow....I am at a total loss. So if Bama was winning year after year, even though they play in the SEC, your telling me it would up to the teams in the Pac 12 to do their job and beat them. No, it would mean the teams within the SEC would have to step it up, knock them out of the playoffs......oh wait, kind of like what happened this year.

It's not just other SEC teams that have beaten Alabama in the years they didn't win the NC though. In 2 of the last 4 years, it was Clemson that beat them, not one of their fellow SEC members. Your argument makes no sense. You seem to be implying that since no teams from any other conferences have been able to beat them in the playoffs, the only way to prevent them from continuing to win NC, is for more MVFC teams to beat them in the regular season, so they either miss the playoffs completely, or at least lose 2 or 3 conference games so they won't have home field advantage all through the playoffs. If that ever happened, the odds are that it would just be another MVFC team that would win the NC, rather than a team from another conference. And I wouldn't be too quick to bet against them, even if they did have to play a game or 2 on the road. After all, they are 8-0 in championship games on a neutral field. And do you really think that we would have had a legitimate chance of beating NDSU this year, if the game had been in Bozeman rather than Fargo? It may not have been quite as much of a blowout, but it still wouldn't have been close, no matter where the game was played.

If MVFC teams had more balance, then NDSU wouldn’t always be seeded as high and would be forced to go on the road in the playoffs. Unlike the playoffs for the P5, which only has 4 teams, they probably won’t get knocked out of the playoffs so the aim needs to be getting them out of 1-2-3-4 seeds and their conference foes are in the best position do that. Teams from other conferences only get three shots a year to impact NDSU’s overall record and they usually don’t play highly rated non conference teams. So it’s up SDSU, N. Iowa, etc to catch them and put them in a less prominent position. Then non-conference teams will have increased chance of knocking them out. Losing regular season (the MVFC teams get the most cracks at this) games will also decrease NDSU’s confidence, which will also aid their playoff opponents.

Lol.....love how this narrative was created this year of the MVFC not having balance.....the conference with more playoff appearances, semi-final appearances, championship appearances and highest Sagarin rating over the past 9 years than any other conference.

You guys have this new narrative that NDSU is getting all these championships by getting a home seed and somehow now, due to the fact the Big Sky had several 9-3 teams this year, that your teams were all just “beat down” and the losses happened because of home field advantage.

The Big Sky has not had teams remotely capable of being a legit contender these past 9 years. How many years did EWU have a top 2 seed and piss it away in the semi-finals? As a conference, they have been a distant third to the MVFC and CAA.

Look, NDSU is just a good program. You guys think the game would have been different if played in Bozeman, but it wouldn’t have been. The outcome would have been the same. One team had better players and coaches than the other team.

8 different teams have played NDSU on a neutral field and 8 times NDSU has come out on top. If their success was due to home field advantage, you’d think they would have been beat one year in the championship game.

If home field advantage is your special sauce, then simply run the table or have 1 loss each year, get a top 2 seed and avoid NDSU. See what happens in Frisco.

You could have the second, third and fourth best team in your conference and that doesn’t mean it’s balanced. NDSU is a top 20 fbs team playing in a conference that has some teams that would be between 60 and 100. That’s just the reality of the situation. It happens (look up George Mikan and Papa G at UCLA) and you just need to deal with it.

[GoCats18]

The one thing I will say, I would rather a team like NDSU come into the FCS and have had the success that they have had instead of watching a team like UM have that kind of success. In the end, I don’t give a crap about NDSU, but I definitely don’t hate them as much as I hate UM.

[BozoneCat]

This narrative that NDSU is a "top 20" program and should move up to FBS is ridiculous. First, they aren't a top 20 program. Not even close. That's not a knock on them, they are leaps and bounds better than any other FCS program. But even if they were middle-of-the-road in all the P5 conferences (which I don't believe they are), that still puts them in the top 35-40 range, and that doesn't take into account the G5 programs that would also be better (Boise, Houston, Memphis, etc.). If they played a full FBS schedule with this team, they would probably go 6-6 or 7-5 and play in a crappy bowl. Again, that's not a knock, that would actually be a great accomplishment considering the disadvantages they would have against their competition!

And I don't see NDSU moving up for the same reasons most of us don't want to see MSU moving up. Sure, give them more money, more scholarships and I'm quite sure their football team would likely be successful. But they'd still never, ever compete for a national championship. They don't have the stadium to compete at the FBS level, and it's not like you can add on to a dome. They would also have to add several other athletics teams to comply with Title IX, with the added facilities, coaches, scholarships, etc. that goes with that. Their fans might support their football team really well, but I'm sure they're not quite as passionate about funding, say, a women's swimming team or something. They are at the right level, they're just doing it better than everyone else. They don't need to move up, everyone else needs to figure out how to do better. UM's success in the 90's and early 2000's spurred MSU to up their game, and I think/hope that NDSU's success will ultimately do the same for the FCS level of football.

[robgriz]

You guys all need to quit bitching and complaining about NDSU winning and just focus on getting better as a program.

What focusing techniques do you suggest?

We Montana schools could follow NDSU’s lead and have virtually no kids from the state the schools represent. Sounds swell

[onceacat]

You guys all need to quit bitching and complaining about NDSU winning and just focus on getting better as a program.

What focusing techniques do you suggest?

We Montana schools could follow NDSU’s lead and have virtually no kids from the state the schools represent. Sounds swell

I count 19 from North Dakota & probably 50 from a Minnesota...considering that Fargos suburbs are in MN, your suggestion sounds patently absurd.

[robgriz]

You guys all need to quit bitching and complaining about NDSU winning and just focus on getting better as a program.

What focusing techniques do you suggest?

We Montana schools could follow NDSU’s lead and have virtually no kids from the state the schools represent. Sounds swell

I count 19 from North Dakota & probably 50 from a Minnesota...considering that Fargos suburbs are in MN, your suggestion sounds patently absurd.

I was, of course, being sarcastic & actually it’s 14 ND, 35 from Minnesota, but if I’m not mistaken Fargo has suburbs in ND as well? Make no mistake, they cherry pick from the area but they also heavily recruit around the tri-cities. The truth is they are not as concerned with having a third to a half of the roster full of kids from ND as UM and MSU are with having kids from Montana. Don’t get me wrong, I want to win with Montana kids, ND just wants to win. Should also point out they also have more kids from Wisconsin than ND.

[Hawks86]

C'mon people. Stay focused.

[John K]

The one thing I will say, I would rather a team like NDSU come into the FCS and have had the success that they have had instead of watching a team like UM have that kind of success. In the end, I don’t give a crap about NDSU, but I definitely don’t hate them as much as I hate UM.

Now that is something we can definitely agree upon 100%.

[John K]

This narrative that NDSU is a "top 20" program and should move up to FBS is ridiculous. First, they aren't a top 20 program. Not even close. That's not a knock on them, they are leaps and bounds better than any other FCS program. But even if they were middle-of-the-road in all the P5 conferences (which I don't believe they are), that still puts them in the top 35-40 range, and that doesn't take into account the G5 programs that would also be better (Boise, Houston, Memphis, etc.). If they played a full FBS schedule with this team, they would probably go 6-6 or 7-5 and play in a crappy bowl. Again, that's not a knock, that would actually be a great accomplishment considering the disadvantages they would have against their competition!

And I don't see NDSU moving up for the same reasons most of us don't want to see MSU moving up. Sure, give them more money, more scholarships and I'm quite sure their football team would likely be successful. But they'd still never, ever compete for a national championship. They don't have the stadium to compete at the FBS level, and it's not like you can add on to a dome. They would also have to add several other athletics teams to comply with Title IX, with the added facilities, coaches, scholarships, etc. that goes with that. Their fans might support their football team really well, but I'm sure they're not quite as passionate about funding, say, a women's swimming team or something. They are at the right level, they're just doing it better than everyone else. They don't need to move up, everyone else needs to figure out how to do better. UM's success in the 90's and early 2000's spurred MSU to up their game, and I think/hope that NDSU's success will ultimately do the same for the FCS level of football.

Thank you. That was very well stated and the best post in this entire thread. You are spot on in everything you said.

[onceacat]

You guys all need to quit bitching and complaining about NDSU winning and just focus on getting better as a program.

What focusing techniques do you suggest?

We Montana schools could follow NDSU’s lead and have virtually no kids from the state the schools represent. Sounds swell

I count 19 from North Dakota & probably 50 from a Minnesota...considering that Fargos suburbs are in MN, your suggestion sounds patently absurd.

I was, of course, being sarcastic & actually it’s 14 ND, 35 from Minnesota, but if I’m not mistaken Fargo has suburbs in ND as well? Make no mistake, they cherry pick from the area but they also heavily recruit around the tri-cities. The truth is they are not as concerned with having a third to a half of the roster full of kids from ND as UM and MSU are with having kids from Montana. Don’t get me wrong, I want to win with Montana kids, ND just wants to win. Should also point out they also have more kids from Wisconsin than ND.

Montana has half again as many people as ND. The Cities are roughly the same distance from Fargo as Dickinson is. NDSU recruits locally, which is really what matters, not Some imaginary line on a map.

[robgriz]

You guys all need to quit bitching and complaining about NDSU winning and just focus on getting better as a program.

What focusing techniques do you suggest?

We Montana schools could follow NDSU’s lead and have virtually no kids from the state the schools represent. Sounds swell

I count 19 from North Dakota & probably 50 from a Minnesota...considering that Fargos suburbs are in MN, your suggestion sounds patently absurd.

I was, of course, being sarcastic & actually it’s 14 ND, 35 from Minnesota, but if I’m not mistaken Fargo has suburbs in ND as well? Make no mistake, they cherry pick from the area but they also heavily recruit around the tri-cities. The truth is they are not as concerned with having a third to a half of the roster full of kids from ND as UM and MSU are with having kids from Montana. Don’t get me wrong, I want to win with Montana kids, ND just wants to win. Should also point out they also have more kids from Wisconsin than ND.

Montana has half again as many people as ND. The Cities are roughly the same distance from Fargo as Dickinson is. NDSU recruits locally, which is really what matters, not Some imaginary line on a map.

Uh...false. ND has a population of 760,000 about 300,000 less or roughly 3/4 the population of Montana. With your logic, UM should have more players from Idaho, which has 600,000 people more than Montana. Or Spokane which is 45 miles closer to Missoula than Minneapolis and it’s suburbs are to Fargo.
Not sure why you want to argue this so much. I thought I made it clear earlier that I don’t blame them, they want to win and they go out and get the best players regardless of where they are from. They just aren’t hung up on recruiting kids from ND.

[TomCat88]

This narrative that NDSU is a "top 20" program and should move up to FBS is ridiculous. First, they aren't a top 20 program. Not even close. That's not a knock on them, they are leaps and bounds better than any other FCS program. But even if they were middle-of-the-road in all the P5 conferences (which I don't believe they are), that still puts them in the top 35-40 range, and that doesn't take into account the G5 programs that would also be better (Boise, Houston, Memphis, etc.). If they played a full FBS schedule with this team, they would probably go 6-6 or 7-5 and play in a crappy bowl. Again, that's not a knock, that would actually be a great accomplishment considering the disadvantages they would have against their competition!

And I don't see NDSU moving up for the same reasons most of us don't want to see MSU moving up. Sure, give them more money, more scholarships and I'm quite sure their football team would likely be successful. But they'd still never, ever compete for a national championship. They don't have the stadium to compete at the FBS level, and it's not like you can add on to a dome. They would also have to add several other athletics teams to comply with Title IX, with the added facilities, coaches, scholarships, etc. that goes with that. Their fans might support their football team really well, but I'm sure they're not quite as passionate about funding, say, a women's swimming team or something. They are at the right level, they're just doing it better than everyone else. They don't need to move up, everyone else needs to figure out how to do better. UM's success in the 90's and early 2000's spurred MSU to up their game, and I think/hope that NDSU's success will ultimately do the same for the FCS level of football.

Thank you. That was very well stated and the best post in this entire thread. You are spot on in everything you said.

Why? Because you agree with it?

Which “middle of the road” P5 teams would have the same record as NDSU over the past nine years? 6-0 vs FBS, 5-0 vs P5, 8 titles, 9 playoff appearances, whatever (36? And 27?) game winning streaks.

Also, which P5 teams (if you take away 22 scholarships) would do that? How many P5 teams would beat NDSU if it had 22 more scholarships?

They’re 5-0 vs P5 teams WITHOUT 22 more scholarships. Let that sink in for awhile. Imagine them with that. Because if they’re FBS, that’s the case.