NDSU-JMU

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onceacat
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Re: NDSU-JMU

Post by onceacat » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:49 am

91catAlum wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:09 am
onceacat wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:34 pm
Bobcat4Ever wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:31 pm
2011BisonAlumni wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:38 pm
1984champ wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:24 am
Anyone know the reasoning behind The Buffalos not wanting to move to the FBS? Does Trey Lance field FBS offers with the new transfer rules? He has 3 years to play and is and is way too talented for the FCS. Without Lance I think they would have lost games this season. He is significantly better than Jensen Wentz and Stick. Maybe with the Gophers getting better they lose some recruits but this is getting a little ridiculous.
Montana State University is a land-grant university (just like NDSU), located in an awesome town, with a higher enrollment than NDSU, great state-wide support and tremendous facilities.

The other FCS fanbases really need to quit bitching about NDSU needing to move up to the FBS. They need to up their game......what is holding the Bobcats back from doing the same thing NDSU does?
There have been a lot of thoughtful comments in multiple threads about what is holding us back. Here is an enumeration of what I have gleaned the last few weeks. Two of them we are stuck with. Three of them are ultimately solveable.

We are pretty well stuck with:

1. Recruiting competition in our region. It was clearly pointed out that NDSU’s primary recruiting area has fewer D-I schools vying for players than our nearby pond.
2. Legacy of eight National FCS Championships. Well, we have one.

Things that can ultimately be solved:

1. Indoor practice facility. The snow, cold, smoke, rain, lightning — always something going on. $$$
2. FCOA. Certainly would not hurt. $$
3. Quarterback recruitment and development. Recruit QBs whose style matches our offense (figure that out first) and coach ‘em up. Hope we can uncover some more gems. This is not impossible — think Lulay, McGhee, and Prukop.

Have to have a list and keep chipping away at it. We are in a good place.
Just thinking about #3: MSU recruits/develops QBs from “other” places. Texas, Washington, CA...NDSU appears to develop good, not great, talent from close to home. ND, MN, WI, and NE. None of NDSUs phenomenal QBs were highly recruited out of high school...some interest from G5 schools, but it’s not like they turned down P5 teams.

To hit with 4 QBs like that says it’s not luck...
Trey Lance turned down Boise State for Ndsu. But you're right about the others.
The announcers during the game said that Boise offered really late...I think they said the last day before early signing. And Boise still isn't a power 5 school. MSU is recruiting a similar talent pool to NDSU...lots of 2-3 star dudes & guys with offers to lower tier FBS programs. Its not like they are going head to head to recruit the same players as the big boys.

My point really is that NDSU is doing something on a different level when it comes to player development.



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VimSince03
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Re: NDSU-JMU

Post by VimSince03 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:52 am

onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:49 am
91catAlum wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:09 am
onceacat wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:34 pm
Bobcat4Ever wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:31 pm
2011BisonAlumni wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:38 pm
1984champ wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:24 am
Anyone know the reasoning behind The Buffalos not wanting to move to the FBS? Does Trey Lance field FBS offers with the new transfer rules? He has 3 years to play and is and is way too talented for the FCS. Without Lance I think they would have lost games this season. He is significantly better than Jensen Wentz and Stick. Maybe with the Gophers getting better they lose some recruits but this is getting a little ridiculous.
Montana State University is a land-grant university (just like NDSU), located in an awesome town, with a higher enrollment than NDSU, great state-wide support and tremendous facilities.

The other FCS fanbases really need to quit bitching about NDSU needing to move up to the FBS. They need to up their game......what is holding the Bobcats back from doing the same thing NDSU does?
There have been a lot of thoughtful comments in multiple threads about what is holding us back. Here is an enumeration of what I have gleaned the last few weeks. Two of them we are stuck with. Three of them are ultimately solveable.

We are pretty well stuck with:

1. Recruiting competition in our region. It was clearly pointed out that NDSU’s primary recruiting area has fewer D-I schools vying for players than our nearby pond.
2. Legacy of eight National FCS Championships. Well, we have one.

Things that can ultimately be solved:

1. Indoor practice facility. The snow, cold, smoke, rain, lightning — always something going on. $$$
2. FCOA. Certainly would not hurt. $$
3. Quarterback recruitment and development. Recruit QBs whose style matches our offense (figure that out first) and coach ‘em up. Hope we can uncover some more gems. This is not impossible — think Lulay, McGhee, and Prukop.

Have to have a list and keep chipping away at it. We are in a good place.
Just thinking about #3: MSU recruits/develops QBs from “other” places. Texas, Washington, CA...NDSU appears to develop good, not great, talent from close to home. ND, MN, WI, and NE. None of NDSUs phenomenal QBs were highly recruited out of high school...some interest from G5 schools, but it’s not like they turned down P5 teams.

To hit with 4 QBs like that says it’s not luck...
Trey Lance turned down Boise State for Ndsu. But you're right about the others.
The announcers during the game said that Boise offered really late...I think they said the last day before early signing. And Boise still isn't a power 5 school. MSU is recruiting a similar talent pool to NDSU...lots of 2-3 star dudes & guys with offers to lower tier FBS programs. Its not like they are going head to head to recruit the same players as the big boys.

My point really is that NDSU is doing something on a different level when it comes to player development.
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WalkOn79
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Re: NDSU-JMU

Post by WalkOn79 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:56 am

2011BisonAlumni wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:38 pm
1984champ wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:24 am
Anyone know the reasoning behind The Buffalos not wanting to move to the FBS? Does Trey Lance field FBS offers with the new transfer rules? He has 3 years to play and is and is way too talented for the FCS. Without Lance I think they would have lost games this season. He is significantly better than Jensen Wentz and Stick. Maybe with the Gophers getting better they lose some recruits but this is getting a little ridiculous.
Montana State University is a land-grant university (just like NDSU), located in an awesome town, with a higher enrollment than NDSU, great state-wide support and tremendous facilities.

The other FCS fanbases really need to quit bitching about NDSU needing to move up to the FBS. They need to up their game......what is holding the Bobcats back from doing the same thing NDSU does?
Totally agree with this.

- We used to get our offensive linemen from Minnesota ALL THE TIME. We need to go back there.
- We recruit Texas and Cali for speed. The Bison recruit Florida. It's a wash.
- Montana has better high school talent than the Dakota's. We just need to get our share of the best.
- Need to build the indoor and expand the east side and north end
- Bozeman will be as big as Fargo the way we're growing, Will add to the support overall especially as alumni come back to Montana to work their computer jobs from their house :D


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catatac
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Re: NDSU-JMU

Post by catatac » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:12 pm

91catAlum wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:14 am
Cat Grad wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:49 pm
catatac wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:50 pm
Montanabob wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:31 pm
2011BisonAlumni wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:38 pm
1984champ wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:24 am
Anyone know the reasoning behind The Buffalos not wanting to move to the FBS? Does Trey Lance field FBS offers with the new transfer rules? He has 3 years to play and is and is way too talented for the FCS. Without Lance I think they would have lost games this season. He is significantly better than Jensen Wentz and Stick. Maybe with the Gophers getting better they lose some recruits but this is getting a little ridiculous.
Montana State University is a land-grant university (just like NDSU), located in an awesome town, with a higher enrollment than NDSU, great state-wide support and tremendous facilities.

The other FCS fanbases really need to quit bitching about NDSU needing to move up to the FBS. They need to up their game......what is holding the Bobcats back from doing the same thing NDSU does?
Money
Correct. And I don't know if this is what you were referring to, but if the Bobcats were allowed to pay the players as much money as NDSU and JMU can... that would certainly help.
Point of order! We are allowed to provide FCOA. We as a state, one would assume, choose to not provide this to our kids.

Hell, as soon as as I hit the submit button I know there will be several frequent posters start bitching about how their scholarships ought to suffice. Then they'll talk about how tough they had it going through school...
1. There hasn't been a single poster here who has stated they are against playing FCOA. You made a preemptive strike on nobody.

2. Athletic scholarship money doesn't come from "the state". It comes from the Bobcat Club which is funded completely by private donations. If we want to pay FCOA, we need fans and alumni to step up and donate more $$$ to the Bobcat Club.
I thought the decision to pay or not to pay FCOA was a conference thing... i.e. the Big Sky Conference would have to vote to allow it? Maybe I imagined that.


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Re: NDSU-JMU

Post by kwcat » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:31 pm

WalkOn79 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:56 am
2011BisonAlumni wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:38 pm
1984champ wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:24 am
Anyone know the reasoning behind The Buffalos not wanting to move to the FBS? Does Trey Lance field FBS offers with the new transfer rules? He has 3 years to play and is and is way too talented for the FCS. Without Lance I think they would have lost games this season. He is significantly better than Jensen Wentz and Stick. Maybe with the Gophers getting better they lose some recruits but this is getting a little ridiculous.
Montana State University is a land-grant university (just like NDSU), located in an awesome town, with a higher enrollment than NDSU, great state-wide support and tremendous facilities.

The other FCS fanbases really need to quit bitching about NDSU needing to move up to the FBS. They need to up their game......what is holding the Bobcats back from doing the same thing NDSU does?
Totally agree with this.

- We used to get our offensive linemen from Minnesota ALL THE TIME. We need to go back there.
- We recruit Texas and Cali for speed. The Bison recruit Florida. It's a wash.
- Montana has better high school talent than the Dakota's. We just need to get our share of the best.
- Need to build the indoor and expand the east side and north end
- Bozeman will be as big as Fargo the way we're growing, Will add to the support overall especially as alumni come back to Montana to work their computer jobs from their house :D
Lewis Kidd.
Greg Menard did give an early verbal to MSU, Then we lost him.
We have been in the running for a few others.



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Re: NDSU-JMU

Post by 91catAlum » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:20 pm

catatac wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:12 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:14 am
Cat Grad wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:49 pm
catatac wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:50 pm
Montanabob wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:31 pm
2011BisonAlumni wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:38 pm
1984champ wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:24 am
Anyone know the reasoning behind The Buffalos not wanting to move to the FBS? Does Trey Lance field FBS offers with the new transfer rules? He has 3 years to play and is and is way too talented for the FCS. Without Lance I think they would have lost games this season. He is significantly better than Jensen Wentz and Stick. Maybe with the Gophers getting better they lose some recruits but this is getting a little ridiculous.
Montana State University is a land-grant university (just like NDSU), located in an awesome town, with a higher enrollment than NDSU, great state-wide support and tremendous facilities.

The other FCS fanbases really need to quit bitching about NDSU needing to move up to the FBS. They need to up their game......what is holding the Bobcats back from doing the same thing NDSU does?
Money
Correct. And I don't know if this is what you were referring to, but if the Bobcats were allowed to pay the players as much money as NDSU and JMU can... that would certainly help.
Point of order! We are allowed to provide FCOA. We as a state, one would assume, choose to not provide this to our kids.

Hell, as soon as as I hit the submit button I know there will be several frequent posters start bitching about how their scholarships ought to suffice. Then they'll talk about how tough they had it going through school...
1. There hasn't been a single poster here who has stated they are against playing FCOA. You made a preemptive strike on nobody.

2. Athletic scholarship money doesn't come from "the state". It comes from the Bobcat Club which is funded completely by private donations. If we want to pay FCOA, we need fans and alumni to step up and donate more $$$ to the Bobcat Club.
I thought the decision to pay or not to pay FCOA was a conference thing... i.e. the Big Sky Conference would have to vote to allow it? Maybe I imagined that.
You could be right, perhaps it needs approval. But UND is already paying it. Of course they've technically been independent for a couple years now.

But I'd guess the biggest hurdle for MSU is the funding aspect, since the Bobcat Club is already under-funded just to pay the room/board/tuition part of the scholarships.


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NorthernPlains
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Re: NDSU-JMU

Post by NorthernPlains » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:53 pm

onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:49 am
91catAlum wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:09 am
Trey Lance turned down Boise State for Ndsu. But you're right about the others.
The announcers during the game said that Boise offered really late...I think they said the last day before early signing. And Boise still isn't a power 5 school. MSU is recruiting a similar talent pool to NDSU...lots of 2-3 star dudes & guys with offers to lower tier FBS programs. Its not like they are going head to head to recruit the same players as the big boys.

My point really is that NDSU is doing something on a different level when it comes to player development.

Obviously they have a great "program" going. For the most part they have had one for decades. Though with Trey Lance it wasn't some special NDSU player development. The kid is a freshman and has a natural exceptional skill set. No Dakota St simply utilized what he brought to the table.

The player development NDSU does is 1. Recruit kids into the system out of high school rather than chasing any drop downs. 2. Red shirt them and look at starting 22 or 23 year olds who have four or five years learning and running the system. Finally they have had coaching changes (coach #3 in a decade) but the 'new' coach was already in their program and he continues with the same 'system'. It wasn't a jump from Kramer to Ash to Choate. That alone makes a hell of a difference.

I think the difference in the quality of recruits is the "winning factor". They are going to get most of the cream of the crop when they're pointing to 3, 4, 5 or 8 current championships. Fargo is not a great place for a kid comparing colleges. However, NDSU is a great place for a kid looking to play a high level of football and have a chance to get some attention. That is a edge they have over everyone else.



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Bobcat4Ever
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Re: NDSU-JMU

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:14 pm

FCOA is not conference-wide. But the Board of Regents would have to approve it, and it would be both MSU and um, or neither.



onceacat
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Re: NDSU-JMU

Post by onceacat » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:29 pm

NorthernPlains wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:53 pm
onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:49 am
91catAlum wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:09 am
Trey Lance turned down Boise State for Ndsu. But you're right about the others.
The announcers during the game said that Boise offered really late...I think they said the last day before early signing. And Boise still isn't a power 5 school. MSU is recruiting a similar talent pool to NDSU...lots of 2-3 star dudes & guys with offers to lower tier FBS programs. Its not like they are going head to head to recruit the same players as the big boys.

My point really is that NDSU is doing something on a different level when it comes to player development.

Obviously they have a great "program" going. For the most part they have had one for decades. Though with Trey Lance it wasn't some special NDSU player development. The kid is a freshman and has a natural exceptional skill set. No Dakota St simply utilized what he brought to the table.

The player development NDSU does is 1. Recruit kids into the system out of high school rather than chasing any drop downs. 2. Red shirt them and look at starting 22 or 23 year olds who have four or five years learning and running the system. Finally they have had coaching changes (coach #3 in a decade) but the 'new' coach was already in their program and he continues with the same 'system'. It wasn't a jump from Kramer to Ash to Choate. That alone makes a hell of a difference.

I think the difference in the quality of recruits is the "winning factor". They are going to get most of the cream of the crop when they're pointing to 3, 4, 5 or 8 current championships. Fargo is not a great place for a kid comparing colleges. However, NDSU is a great place for a kid looking to play a high level of football and have a chance to get some attention. That is a edge they have over everyone else.
Honestly, I still don't understand how a 6-4 195 QB who is the #1 recruit in Minnesota doesn't have a decent scholarship offer other than a last second one from Boise (unless he had decided on NDSU a long time ago).

Other than that, I 100% agree, except that Fargo-Moorhead is widely considered to be a GREAT college town. Fargo almost always makes the "Top College Towns" list. Not my cup of tea, personally, but I've known a lot of people who've gone to school there.



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Re: NDSU-JMU

Post by Cat Grad » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:52 pm

onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:29 pm
NorthernPlains wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:53 pm
onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:49 am
91catAlum wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:09 am
Trey Lance turned down Boise State for Ndsu. But you're right about the others.
The announcers during the game said that Boise offered really late...I think they said the last day before early signing. And Boise still isn't a power 5 school. MSU is recruiting a similar talent pool to NDSU...lots of 2-3 star dudes & guys with offers to lower tier FBS programs. Its not like they are going head to head to recruit the same players as the big boys.

My point really is that NDSU is doing something on a different level when it comes to player development.

Obviously they have a great "program" going. For the most part they have had one for decades. Though with Trey Lance it wasn't some special NDSU player development. The kid is a freshman and has a natural exceptional skill set. No Dakota St simply utilized what he brought to the table.

The player development NDSU does is 1. Recruit kids into the system out of high school rather than chasing any drop downs. 2. Red shirt them and look at starting 22 or 23 year olds who have four or five years learning and running the system. Finally they have had coaching changes (coach #3 in a decade) but the 'new' coach was already in their program and he continues with the same 'system'. It wasn't a jump from Kramer to Ash to Choate. That alone makes a hell of a difference.

I think the difference in the quality of recruits is the "winning factor". They are going to get most of the cream of the crop when they're pointing to 3, 4, 5 or 8 current championships. Fargo is not a great place for a kid comparing colleges. However, NDSU is a great place for a kid looking to play a high level of football and have a chance to get some attention. That is a edge they have over everyone else.
Honestly, I still don't understand how a 6-4 195 QB who is the #1 recruit in Minnesota doesn't have a decent scholarship offer other than a last second one from Boise (unless he had decided on NDSU a long time ago).

Other than that, I 100% agree, except that Fargo-Moorhead is widely considered to be a GREAT college town. Fargo almost always makes the "Top College Towns" list. Not my cup of tea, personally, but I've known a lot of people who've gone to school there.
And perhaps therein lies the issue. Not only is NDSU located in a great, affordable college town, but I'd venture to say many of those people you know who have gone to school there are actually living the dream with good jobs and a great life due to a relatively low cost of living. How the hell can anyone remain in Montana with their salaries and the cost of living? Most who go to NDSU have a lot more common sense than we like to give them credit for.



onceacat
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Re: NDSU-JMU

Post by onceacat » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:24 pm

Cat Grad wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:52 pm
onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:29 pm
NorthernPlains wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:53 pm
onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:49 am
91catAlum wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:09 am
Trey Lance turned down Boise State for Ndsu. But you're right about the others.
The announcers during the game said that Boise offered really late...I think they said the last day before early signing. And Boise still isn't a power 5 school. MSU is recruiting a similar talent pool to NDSU...lots of 2-3 star dudes & guys with offers to lower tier FBS programs. Its not like they are going head to head to recruit the same players as the big boys.

My point really is that NDSU is doing something on a different level when it comes to player development.

Obviously they have a great "program" going. For the most part they have had one for decades. Though with Trey Lance it wasn't some special NDSU player development. The kid is a freshman and has a natural exceptional skill set. No Dakota St simply utilized what he brought to the table.

The player development NDSU does is 1. Recruit kids into the system out of high school rather than chasing any drop downs. 2. Red shirt them and look at starting 22 or 23 year olds who have four or five years learning and running the system. Finally they have had coaching changes (coach #3 in a decade) but the 'new' coach was already in their program and he continues with the same 'system'. It wasn't a jump from Kramer to Ash to Choate. That alone makes a hell of a difference.

I think the difference in the quality of recruits is the "winning factor". They are going to get most of the cream of the crop when they're pointing to 3, 4, 5 or 8 current championships. Fargo is not a great place for a kid comparing colleges. However, NDSU is a great place for a kid looking to play a high level of football and have a chance to get some attention. That is a edge they have over everyone else.
Honestly, I still don't understand how a 6-4 195 QB who is the #1 recruit in Minnesota doesn't have a decent scholarship offer other than a last second one from Boise (unless he had decided on NDSU a long time ago).

Other than that, I 100% agree, except that Fargo-Moorhead is widely considered to be a GREAT college town. Fargo almost always makes the "Top College Towns" list. Not my cup of tea, personally, but I've known a lot of people who've gone to school there.
And perhaps therein lies the issue. Not only is NDSU located in a great, affordable college town, but I'd venture to say many of those people you know who have gone to school there are actually living the dream with good jobs and a great life due to a relatively low cost of living. How the hell can anyone remain in Montana with their salaries and the cost of living? Most who go to NDSU have a lot more common sense than we like to give them credit for.
Yep. Lots of good jobs in Fargo or the Cities where you can save up your money for 10 or 15 years, then be able to afford a house in Bozeman.



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Re: NDSU-JMU

Post by Cat Grad » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:32 pm

onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:24 pm
Cat Grad wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:52 pm
onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:29 pm
NorthernPlains wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:53 pm
onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:49 am
91catAlum wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:09 am
Trey Lance turned down Boise State for Ndsu. But you're right about the others.
The announcers during the game said that Boise offered really late...I think they said the last day before early signing. And Boise still isn't a power 5 school. MSU is recruiting a similar talent pool to NDSU...lots of 2-3 star dudes & guys with offers to lower tier FBS programs. Its not like they are going head to head to recruit the same players as the big boys.

My point really is that NDSU is doing something on a different level when it comes to player development.

Obviously they have a great "program" going. For the most part they have had one for decades. Though with Trey Lance it wasn't some special NDSU player development. The kid is a freshman and has a natural exceptional skill set. No Dakota St simply utilized what he brought to the table.

The player development NDSU does is 1. Recruit kids into the system out of high school rather than chasing any drop downs. 2. Red shirt them and look at starting 22 or 23 year olds who have four or five years learning and running the system. Finally they have had coaching changes (coach #3 in a decade) but the 'new' coach was already in their program and he continues with the same 'system'. It wasn't a jump from Kramer to Ash to Choate. That alone makes a hell of a difference.

I think the difference in the quality of recruits is the "winning factor". They are going to get most of the cream of the crop when they're pointing to 3, 4, 5 or 8 current championships. Fargo is not a great place for a kid comparing colleges. However, NDSU is a great place for a kid looking to play a high level of football and have a chance to get some attention. That is a edge they have over everyone else.
Honestly, I still don't understand how a 6-4 195 QB who is the #1 recruit in Minnesota doesn't have a decent scholarship offer other than a last second one from Boise (unless he had decided on NDSU a long time ago).

Other than that, I 100% agree, except that Fargo-Moorhead is widely considered to be a GREAT college town. Fargo almost always makes the "Top College Towns" list. Not my cup of tea, personally, but I've known a lot of people who've gone to school there.
And perhaps therein lies the issue. Not only is NDSU located in a great, affordable college town, but I'd venture to say many of those people you know who have gone to school there are actually living the dream with good jobs and a great life due to a relatively low cost of living. How the hell can anyone remain in Montana with their salaries and the cost of living? Most who go to NDSU have a lot more common sense than we like to give them credit for.
Yep. Lots of good jobs in Fargo or the Cities where you can save up your money for 10 or 15 years, then be able to afford a house in Bozeman.
Rather live in Belgrade than Bozeangeles...Heck, I'd rather live in Willow Creek or Cardwell than that hell hole. Ennis or Pony. Even Toston...



onceacat
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Posts: 1757
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Re: NDSU-JMU

Post by onceacat » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:41 pm

Cat Grad wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:32 pm
onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:24 pm
Cat Grad wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:52 pm
onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:29 pm
NorthernPlains wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:53 pm
onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:49 am
91catAlum wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:09 am
Trey Lance turned down Boise State for Ndsu. But you're right about the others.
The announcers during the game said that Boise offered really late...I think they said the last day before early signing. And Boise still isn't a power 5 school. MSU is recruiting a similar talent pool to NDSU...lots of 2-3 star dudes & guys with offers to lower tier FBS programs. Its not like they are going head to head to recruit the same players as the big boys.

My point really is that NDSU is doing something on a different level when it comes to player development.

Obviously they have a great "program" going. For the most part they have had one for decades. Though with Trey Lance it wasn't some special NDSU player development. The kid is a freshman and has a natural exceptional skill set. No Dakota St simply utilized what he brought to the table.

The player development NDSU does is 1. Recruit kids into the system out of high school rather than chasing any drop downs. 2. Red shirt them and look at starting 22 or 23 year olds who have four or five years learning and running the system. Finally they have had coaching changes (coach #3 in a decade) but the 'new' coach was already in their program and he continues with the same 'system'. It wasn't a jump from Kramer to Ash to Choate. That alone makes a hell of a difference.

I think the difference in the quality of recruits is the "winning factor". They are going to get most of the cream of the crop when they're pointing to 3, 4, 5 or 8 current championships. Fargo is not a great place for a kid comparing colleges. However, NDSU is a great place for a kid looking to play a high level of football and have a chance to get some attention. That is a edge they have over everyone else.
Honestly, I still don't understand how a 6-4 195 QB who is the #1 recruit in Minnesota doesn't have a decent scholarship offer other than a last second one from Boise (unless he had decided on NDSU a long time ago).

Other than that, I 100% agree, except that Fargo-Moorhead is widely considered to be a GREAT college town. Fargo almost always makes the "Top College Towns" list. Not my cup of tea, personally, but I've known a lot of people who've gone to school there.
And perhaps therein lies the issue. Not only is NDSU located in a great, affordable college town, but I'd venture to say many of those people you know who have gone to school there are actually living the dream with good jobs and a great life due to a relatively low cost of living. How the hell can anyone remain in Montana with their salaries and the cost of living? Most who go to NDSU have a lot more common sense than we like to give them credit for.
Yep. Lots of good jobs in Fargo or the Cities where you can save up your money for 10 or 15 years, then be able to afford a house in Bozeman.
Rather live in Belgrade than Bozeangeles...Heck, I'd rather live in Willow Creek or Cardwell than that hell hole. Ennis or Pony. Even Toston...
The rapidly increasing prices in Bozeman suggest that you have an unpopular opinion that isn't shared by the market! :wink:



Cat Grad
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Posts: 6606
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Re: NDSU-JMU

Post by Cat Grad » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:10 pm

onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:41 pm
Cat Grad wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:32 pm
onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:24 pm
Cat Grad wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:52 pm
onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:29 pm
NorthernPlains wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:53 pm
onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:49 am
91catAlum wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:09 am
Trey Lance turned down Boise State for Ndsu. But you're right about the others.
The announcers during the game said that Boise offered really late...I think they said the last day before early signing. And Boise still isn't a power 5 school. MSU is recruiting a similar talent pool to NDSU...lots of 2-3 star dudes & guys with offers to lower tier FBS programs. Its not like they are going head to head to recruit the same players as the big boys.

My point really is that NDSU is doing something on a different level when it comes to player development.

Obviously they have a great "program" going. For the most part they have had one for decades. Though with Trey Lance it wasn't some special NDSU player development. The kid is a freshman and has a natural exceptional skill set. No Dakota St simply utilized what he brought to the table.

The player development NDSU does is 1. Recruit kids into the system out of high school rather than chasing any drop downs. 2. Red shirt them and look at starting 22 or 23 year olds who have four or five years learning and running the system. Finally they have had coaching changes (coach #3 in a decade) but the 'new' coach was already in their program and he continues with the same 'system'. It wasn't a jump from Kramer to Ash to Choate. That alone makes a hell of a difference.

I think the difference in the quality of recruits is the "winning factor". They are going to get most of the cream of the crop when they're pointing to 3, 4, 5 or 8 current championships. Fargo is not a great place for a kid comparing colleges. However, NDSU is a great place for a kid looking to play a high level of football and have a chance to get some attention. That is a edge they have over everyone else.
Honestly, I still don't understand how a 6-4 195 QB who is the #1 recruit in Minnesota doesn't have a decent scholarship offer other than a last second one from Boise (unless he had decided on NDSU a long time ago).

Other than that, I 100% agree, except that Fargo-Moorhead is widely considered to be a GREAT college town. Fargo almost always makes the "Top College Towns" list. Not my cup of tea, personally, but I've known a lot of people who've gone to school there.
And perhaps therein lies the issue. Not only is NDSU located in a great, affordable college town, but I'd venture to say many of those people you know who have gone to school there are actually living the dream with good jobs and a great life due to a relatively low cost of living. How the hell can anyone remain in Montana with their salaries and the cost of living? Most who go to NDSU have a lot more common sense than we like to give them credit for.
Yep. Lots of good jobs in Fargo or the Cities where you can save up your money for 10 or 15 years, then be able to afford a house in Bozeman.
Rather live in Belgrade than Bozeangeles...Heck, I'd rather live in Willow Creek or Cardwell than that hell hole. Ennis or Pony. Even Toston...
The rapidly increasing prices in Bozeman suggest that you have an unpopular opinion that isn't shared by the market! :wink:
Last year Denver had 400k people move there. Mike Hayter's place a block from Coors Field is a perfect example of better opportunities. I'd take a SWAG and bet there are more MSU graduates living in the state of Colorado than the entire state of Montana, possibly the greater Denver metropolitan area. The point being, NDSU graduates can and do find reasonable employment IN THEIR FIELD near their college with a reasonable cost of living. Now, outside of the Madison River Brewery's Copper John's Ale or the Kettlehouse Breweries Cold Smoke, I don't think many Montana brewers can match that out of North Dakota and Minnesota. Anyone from Montana willingly concedes to a better beer, right? That's what North Dakota State has over MSU right now. Waded has to up the brewfests!

That is just one state. Think of the other locations expatriated Montanans have moved to but still proudly wear all their gear and flock to viewing games but nobody from MSU ever shows up...



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codecat
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Re: NDSU-JMU

Post by codecat » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:46 pm

2011BisonAlumni wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:14 pm
jgrilley406 wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:07 pm
2011BisonAlumni wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:38 pm
1984champ wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:24 am
Anyone know the reasoning behind The Buffalos not wanting to move to the FBS? Does Trey Lance field FBS offers with the new transfer rules? He has 3 years to play and is and is way too talented for the FCS. Without Lance I think they would have lost games this season. He is significantly better than Jensen Wentz and Stick. Maybe with the Gophers getting better they lose some recruits but this is getting a little ridiculous.
Montana State University is a land-grant university (just like NDSU), located in an awesome town, with a higher enrollment than NDSU, great state-wide support and tremendous facilities.

The other FCS fanbases really need to quit bitching about NDSU needing to move up to the FBS. They need to up their game......what is holding the Bobcats back from doing the same thing NDSU does?
Agree, I would rather be the team that finally knocks them off or see them get knocked off, rather than see them just up and leave for the FBS and have someone claim the thrown that way. As frustrating as it is, all dynasties come to an end, even though they’re still primed for another 2-3 years I think, teams are climbing closer and closer.
Yes, all dynasty's come to an end, but baring an institutional scandal or bad coaching hire in the future, I just don't see them dropping off from being a power team year in and year out. Too many advantages from facilities to tradition.

IMO, what will end the dynasty is when the compounding effects of Bohl, now Klieman and later Entz (in theory) all are head coaches on FBS teams recruiting in NDSU's territory AND the next QB is not as good as Jensen, Wentz, Stick and Lance have been.

The quarterback play has been ridiculous for NDSU and is an overlooked factor for their dominance. In 2006-2007, they had ridiculously good teams (ranked #1 in the FCS for awhile), but were not playoff eligible. They had an excellent QB in Steve Walker, who when he graduated, was largely discussed as a top 3 Bison QB of all time. 2008, they brought back a stacked team, ranked pre-season #2 and were #1 after two weeks into the year. They finished 6-5. 2009, they had their worst team in 50 years, finishing 3-9. They still had great running backs, offensive and defensive line, etc, but the common factor was a QB in Nick Mertens who was not very good.

2010 they finished the season 9-5, but most of those losses came with Jose Mohler, another sub-par QB, leading the charge for the Bison.

Trade QB's in this year's playoff game, and I think the outcome is quite a bit different.
Very much agree with this - even as NDSU has been a dangerous run-first team, I've noticed over the years when their run game is getting stacked against or slowed, they are able to Complete the passes they need to, making defenses pay or keeping them off balance. I also felt that when you guys throttled us again this year, that lance looked like he was only using about 2/3 of his throttle because that is all that he needed to do (i.e. only having to scramble one or two times and made us pay dearly for it once, but never really had to run). Your point is well taken but half of the mind-set on this board this year has been that all we need is "serviceable" QB play.


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iaafan
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Re: NDSU-JMU

Post by iaafan » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:02 am

codecat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:46 pm
2011BisonAlumni wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:14 pm
jgrilley406 wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:07 pm
2011BisonAlumni wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:38 pm
1984champ wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:24 am
Anyone know the reasoning behind The Buffalos not wanting to move to the FBS? Does Trey Lance field FBS offers with the new transfer rules? He has 3 years to play and is and is way too talented for the FCS. Without Lance I think they would have lost games this season. He is significantly better than Jensen Wentz and Stick. Maybe with the Gophers getting better they lose some recruits but this is getting a little ridiculous.
Montana State University is a land-grant university (just like NDSU), located in an awesome town, with a higher enrollment than NDSU, great state-wide support and tremendous facilities.

The other FCS fanbases really need to quit bitching about NDSU needing to move up to the FBS. They need to up their game......what is holding the Bobcats back from doing the same thing NDSU does?
Agree, I would rather be the team that finally knocks them off or see them get knocked off, rather than see them just up and leave for the FBS and have someone claim the thrown that way. As frustrating as it is, all dynasties come to an end, even though they’re still primed for another 2-3 years I think, teams are climbing closer and closer.
Yes, all dynasty's come to an end, but baring an institutional scandal or bad coaching hire in the future, I just don't see them dropping off from being a power team year in and year out. Too many advantages from facilities to tradition.

IMO, what will end the dynasty is when the compounding effects of Bohl, now Klieman and later Entz (in theory) all are head coaches on FBS teams recruiting in NDSU's territory AND the next QB is not as good as Jensen, Wentz, Stick and Lance have been.

The quarterback play has been ridiculous for NDSU and is an overlooked factor for their dominance. In 2006-2007, they had ridiculously good teams (ranked #1 in the FCS for awhile), but were not playoff eligible. They had an excellent QB in Steve Walker, who when he graduated, was largely discussed as a top 3 Bison QB of all time. 2008, they brought back a stacked team, ranked pre-season #2 and were #1 after two weeks into the year. They finished 6-5. 2009, they had their worst team in 50 years, finishing 3-9. They still had great running backs, offensive and defensive line, etc, but the common factor was a QB in Nick Mertens who was not very good.

2010 they finished the season 9-5, but most of those losses came with Jose Mohler, another sub-par QB, leading the charge for the Bison.

Trade QB's in this year's playoff game, and I think the outcome is quite a bit different.
Very much agree with this - even as NDSU has been a dangerous run-first team, I've noticed over the years when their run game is getting stacked against or slowed, they are able to Complete the passes they need to, making defenses pay or keeping them off balance. I also felt that when you guys throttled us again this year, that lance looked like he was only using about 2/3 of his throttle because that is all that he needed to do (i.e. only having to scramble one or two times and made us pay dearly for it once, but never really had to run). Your point is well taken but half of the mind-set on this board this year has been that all we need is "serviceable" QB play.
I’m pretty sure people meant that all MSU needed was a serviceable QB to have a successful season. I don’t think anyone meant it would make MSU as good as NDSU.



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Re: NDSU-JMU

Post by CelticCat » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:57 am

Stay classy NDSU:



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Re: NDSU-JMU

Post by technoCat » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:10 am

After the hissy fit they threw over Choate's comments is anyone really surprised...


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Re: NDSU-JMU

Post by BleedingBLue » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:40 am

Who the hell is Greg Menard?



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WalkOn79
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Re: NDSU-JMU

Post by WalkOn79 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:42 am

onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:41 pm
Cat Grad wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:32 pm
onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:24 pm
Cat Grad wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:52 pm
onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:29 pm
NorthernPlains wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:53 pm
onceacat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:49 am
91catAlum wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:09 am
Trey Lance turned down Boise State for Ndsu. But you're right about the others.
The announcers during the game said that Boise offered really late...I think they said the last day before early signing. And Boise still isn't a power 5 school. MSU is recruiting a similar talent pool to NDSU...lots of 2-3 star dudes & guys with offers to lower tier FBS programs. Its not like they are going head to head to recruit the same players as the big boys.

My point really is that NDSU is doing something on a different level when it comes to player development.

Obviously they have a great "program" going. For the most part they have had one for decades. Though with Trey Lance it wasn't some special NDSU player development. The kid is a freshman and has a natural exceptional skill set. No Dakota St simply utilized what he brought to the table.

The player development NDSU does is 1. Recruit kids into the system out of high school rather than chasing any drop downs. 2. Red shirt them and look at starting 22 or 23 year olds who have four or five years learning and running the system. Finally they have had coaching changes (coach #3 in a decade) but the 'new' coach was already in their program and he continues with the same 'system'. It wasn't a jump from Kramer to Ash to Choate. That alone makes a hell of a difference.

I think the difference in the quality of recruits is the "winning factor". They are going to get most of the cream of the crop when they're pointing to 3, 4, 5 or 8 current championships. Fargo is not a great place for a kid comparing colleges. However, NDSU is a great place for a kid looking to play a high level of football and have a chance to get some attention. That is a edge they have over everyone else.
Honestly, I still don't understand how a 6-4 195 QB who is the #1 recruit in Minnesota doesn't have a decent scholarship offer other than a last second one from Boise (unless he had decided on NDSU a long time ago).

Other than that, I 100% agree, except that Fargo-Moorhead is widely considered to be a GREAT college town. Fargo almost always makes the "Top College Towns" list. Not my cup of tea, personally, but I've known a lot of people who've gone to school there.
And perhaps therein lies the issue. Not only is NDSU located in a great, affordable college town, but I'd venture to say many of those people you know who have gone to school there are actually living the dream with good jobs and a great life due to a relatively low cost of living. How the hell can anyone remain in Montana with their salaries and the cost of living? Most who go to NDSU have a lot more common sense than we like to give them credit for.
Yep. Lots of good jobs in Fargo or the Cities where you can save up your money for 10 or 15 years, then be able to afford a house in Bozeman.
Rather live in Belgrade than Bozeangeles...Heck, I'd rather live in Willow Creek or Cardwell than that hell hole. Ennis or Pony. Even Toston...
The rapidly increasing prices in Bozeman suggest that you have an unpopular opinion that isn't shared by the market! :wink:
:wink: :wink:


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