Quarterback

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iaafan
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Re: Quarterback

Post by iaafan » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:51 am

VimSince03 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:21 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:17 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:39 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:30 pm
bobcatbob wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:05 pm
I was very happy with this season. I thought Rovig improved tremendously. He did a solid job. Now it is on to next year. I hope his improvement continues into Spring ball. However, his lack of quickness and speed is a negative. Also, he throws a lot off his back foot which is not good. He can work on that but the quickness and speed is not going to change. I think having a dual threat that can pass and run is much more effective. Hopefully McKay is the guy. Anxious to see how Tommy Mellot does. He appears to be a Lulay type. The kid is a leader. Will be good to see more competition at that position next year.
Mellott’s best comparison is Johnny Manziel style and skills-wise. I believe that’s why he wears #2.
This x 1,000,000!
There’s almost no way McKay is going to beat out Rovig. And Rovig won’t hold off Mellott for long.

McKay is not a good passer, unless he’s vastly improved since high school. His career high school numbers: 442-881-44, 5,932 yards, 58 TDs 50.2%; 424-1,909-24 4.5 rushing over 3 seasons as a starter. If you drop his sophomore numbers: 284-522-21, 3,672, 37 TDs, 54%, 128.8 passer rating; 339-1,786-20 5.3 ypc.

Compare this to Mellott:
Career: 558-967-23, 69, 7,089, 57.7%; 424-2,499-31, 5.9 ypc. Drop sophomore year: 385-663-11, 5,096, 49, 58%, 143.7; 320-2,098-27, 6.6 ypc.
I can't directly comment on the validity of this comparison as I don't know either kid. Seen Mellott play once and never seen McKay. That said, I know that this staff is VERY high on McKay, and they feel like he can be a complete game changer for this offense. Obviously there will be a competition, but you don't have these feelings about an ACC transfer if there is almost no way he can beat out our current guy.

By no means do I mean to take anything away from Mellott here. Montana kids and small town guys have done just fine here. But I don't think you can make an apples to apples comparison of stats from a 2A school in Montana to those of a 4A school in North Carolina. This isn't to suggest that anyone from 4A is automatically better than someone from 2A. But I don't think there is any question the competition McKay faced was greater than that of which Mellott faced. And yet he still accounted for almost 100 touchdowns in his career before moving on to the ACC conference.

I guess my main point is it seems WAY too early to claim there is no way this kid will beat out Rovig and if he does will lose his job to Mellott soon after. I'm excited about both of these kids and our entire class. But we brought McKay in for one reason; because Choate and this staff think he's a guy to take us to the next level.
And again...the staff is high on Blake Thelen as well. Thelen vs. Mellott is a good early competition to watch next fall.
This is just my opinion:
McKay has all the measureables, as do Rovig and Bauman, but he simply wasn’t very productive, especially passing the ball. Travis Jonsen was a more productive runner and passer in high school. Mellott was more productive than both and he’s shown steady growth, something neither McKay nor Jonsen did, which is a big difference.

I see people debating the McKay vs Rovig battle and I don’t think either will be starting halfway through the season. I think Thelen might pass up both. He’s a big, strong, athletic player, who was very productive on a mediocre team in high school. He was also a very good punter (1st team all state) and basketball player (1st team all state). Not saying he’s as good as the incoming punter, but just shows her versatility and athleticism.



bobcat99
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Re: Quarterback

Post by bobcat99 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:08 pm

Bobcatsinmso wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:49 am
:deadhorse: I agree, good post Bruce.
Fair enough guys. My bad.



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Bobcat4Ever
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Re: Quarterback

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:18 pm

RobertoGato wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:33 pm
onceacat wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:04 pm
People seem to forget that Watson and Lance weren’t exactly under the radar type recruits. NDSU consistently takes good, not great recruits and turns them into NFL draft picks.

Lance was the top Prospect out of Minnesota and I think only had one FBS offer (and not to a pier 5 school). Watson played in Tampa and as far as I can find, didn’t have any FCS offers. Was only a 2 star recruit.

Same deal with Easton Stick and Carson Wentz.
According to 247, Lance had offers from Boise State, Western Michigan, and Northern Illinois (all FBS) and chose NDSU over them. He had interest from Minnesota. Also according to that site, he only had four FCS offers (NDSU, SDSU, Cornell, and Brown)-- which illustrates the point that NDSU's recruiting territory is dramatically under-recruited at the FCS level.

I can't find anything on Watson.

But landing a guy who had three offers at the FBS level is hard to do in the FCS. Grady Robison only got one, to my knowledge, and we lost him. Lance turned down Boise State, which is obviously a much higher profile than Western Kentucky.

No doubt NDSU can develop talent. I am not disputing that. But they also bring in a better level of talent to begin with.
Most guys like to challenge themselves to compete at the highest level — Boise State would be the logical choice for that. Boise may not have offered a scholarship. So, let’s play out a hypothetical here. What if MSU had also offered a full, as NDSU most likely did? So let’s assume the choice (Boise is still out) comes down to MSU and NDSU. (Forget FCOA, it’s not that big of a deal to a top athlete with choices and pro aspirations.) I think MSU loses him to NDSU because of the one recruiting advantage they have that no one else can offer — 7 of the last 8 national championships. That’s the trump card, and it’s a tough one to beat. Because of that the NFL probably watches the Bison more carefully than any other FCS team. The Bison get who the Bison want. Taking the hypothetical one step further, let’s assume NDSU did not offer. Then we probably lose him to Boise State. And that’s the reality of being an FCS team not named NDSU.



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Re: Quarterback

Post by Cataholic » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:55 pm

bobcat99 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:08 pm
Bobcatsinmso wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:49 am
:deadhorse: I agree, good post Bruce.
Fair enough guys. My bad.
My bad as well. I did not want to derail a thread.



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BigBruceBaker
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Re: Quarterback

Post by BigBruceBaker » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:12 pm

BigBruceBaker wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:36 am
Hawks86 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:25 am
I think it all boils down to which one has the best off-season QB coach.
I was going to say the same thing. All of these kids should be trying to get into the QB coach camps down south, it really does help.

Edit to add:

Is there any money available for these kids to better themselves? QBC money or anything else? Or is it just on their own dime?
This got buried. Anyone know the answer? My gut says that would be considered extra compensation for the player thus not permissible but man do I want these QB's we have to go down to those QB schools this summer.


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Hawks86
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Re: Quarterback

Post by Hawks86 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:20 pm

BigBruceBaker wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:12 pm
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:36 am
Hawks86 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:25 am
I think it all boils down to which one has the best off-season QB coach.
I was going to say the same thing. All of these kids should be trying to get into the QB coach camps down south, it really does help.

Edit to add:

Is there any money available for these kids to better themselves? QBC money or anything else? Or is it just on their own dime?
This got buried. Anyone know the answer? My gut says that would be considered extra compensation for the player thus not permissible but man do I want these QB's we have to go down to those QB schools this summer.
The answer is smartassery. I was poking at a certain poster who wanted a certain former QB to start last year. One thing mentioned over and over was that this former QB had trained with a touted QB coach for quite awhile.

Also. These kids can train with whoever they want and can afford in the off-season.


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Re: Quarterback

Post by HiLineCat » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:17 pm

HiLineCat wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:39 am
I'm just curious about how many pages this thread gets to be in the next week!
Only 7 pages after a week, I thought it would be more!



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Re: Quarterback

Post by 91catAlum » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:35 pm

Bobcat4Ever wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:18 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:33 pm
onceacat wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:04 pm
People seem to forget that Watson and Lance weren’t exactly under the radar type recruits. NDSU consistently takes good, not great recruits and turns them into NFL draft picks.

Lance was the top Prospect out of Minnesota and I think only had one FBS offer (and not to a pier 5 school). Watson played in Tampa and as far as I can find, didn’t have any FCS offers. Was only a 2 star recruit.

Same deal with Easton Stick and Carson Wentz.
According to 247, Lance had offers from Boise State, Western Michigan, and Northern Illinois (all FBS) and chose NDSU over them. He had interest from Minnesota. Also according to that site, he only had four FCS offers (NDSU, SDSU, Cornell, and Brown)-- which illustrates the point that NDSU's recruiting territory is dramatically under-recruited at the FCS level.

I can't find anything on Watson.

But landing a guy who had three offers at the FBS level is hard to do in the FCS. Grady Robison only got one, to my knowledge, and we lost him. Lance turned down Boise State, which is obviously a much higher profile than Western Kentucky.

No doubt NDSU can develop talent. I am not disputing that. But they also bring in a better level of talent to begin with.
Most guys like to challenge themselves to compete at the highest level — Boise State would be the logical choice for that. Boise may not have offered a scholarship. So, let’s play out a hypothetical here. What if MSU had also offered a full, as NDSU most likely did? So let’s assume the choice (Boise is still out) comes down to MSU and NDSU. (Forget FCOA, it’s not that big of a deal to a top athlete with choices and pro aspirations.) I think MSU loses him to NDSU because of the one recruiting advantage they have that no one else can offer — 7 of the last 8 national championships. That’s the trump card, and it’s a tough one to beat. Because of that the NFL probably watches the Bison more carefully than any other FCS team. The Bison get who the Bison want. Taking the hypothetical one step further, let’s assume NDSU did not offer. Then we probably lose him to Boise State. And that’s the reality of being an FCS team not named NDSU.
I agree that NDSU's constant reign at the top of FCS is a big recruiting advantage now. But if you think $3400 per year, cash money, isn't that big of a deal to a 17-18 year old high school kid getting college offers, I think you're dead wrong.


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Re: Quarterback

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:15 pm

Oh, I totally agree about FCOA for most of the kids. That’s why I qualified it as “top athlete with choices and pro aspirations.” These rare guys are going to go where they can play and put up wins and be seen.



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Re: Quarterback

Post by HelenaCat95 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:44 pm

Don't forget that FCOA can also help the parents. For a parent from out of state, travelling to games to watch their kid play can get very expensive. FCOA can help offset some of that.
This aspect probably would not have mattered to Lance, since his family lives about 90 minutes away from Fargo (I think I got that right).

NDSU is doing everything it can to stay ahead of the curve.....and it's working.
Imagine what things will be like in Fargo now that kids can sell their likeness for personal gain. With the kind of support that they get locally, I'm guessing that there will be a lot of new cars in the Football parking lot soon.



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Re: Quarterback

Post by 91catAlum » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:19 pm

HelenaCat95 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:44 pm
Don't forget that FCOA can also help the parents. For a parent from out of state, travelling to games to watch their kid play can get very expensive. FCOA can help offset some of that.
This aspect probably would not have mattered to Lance, since his family lives about 90 minutes away from Fargo (I think I got that right).

NDSU is doing everything it can to stay ahead of the curve.....and it's working.
Imagine what things will be like in Fargo now that kids can sell their likeness for personal gain. With the kind of support that they get locally, I'm guessing that there will be a lot of new cars in the Football parking lot soon.
Visions of Eric Dickerson's Trans Am come to mind... :lol:

I just hate that rule. What's to stop a booster, like me, from paying Troy Andersen $10,000 for an autographed picture? Unless I'm misunderstanding the rule, it's just a huge can of worms opened up. Then you combine that with the Transfer Portal, and you have the potential for college football free agency.

Sorry for the tangent.


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Re: Quarterback

Post by kcatz » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:16 pm

HiLineCat wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:17 pm
HiLineCat wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:39 am
I'm just curious about how many pages this thread gets to be in the next week!
Only 7 pages after a week, I thought it would be more!
It would be a LOT less if we didn't have to copy each novella for every response



bobcat99
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Re: Quarterback

Post by bobcat99 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:16 pm

91catAlum wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:19 pm
HelenaCat95 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:44 pm
Don't forget that FCOA can also help the parents. For a parent from out of state, travelling to games to watch their kid play can get very expensive. FCOA can help offset some of that.
This aspect probably would not have mattered to Lance, since his family lives about 90 minutes away from Fargo (I think I got that right).

NDSU is doing everything it can to stay ahead of the curve.....and it's working.
Imagine what things will be like in Fargo now that kids can sell their likeness for personal gain. With the kind of support that they get locally, I'm guessing that there will be a lot of new cars in the Football parking lot soon.
Visions of Eric Dickerson's Trans Am come to mind... :lol:

I just hate that rule. What's to stop a booster, like me, from paying Troy Andersen $10,000 for an autographed picture? Unless I'm misunderstanding the rule, it's just a huge can of worms opened up. Then you combine that with the Transfer Portal, and you have the potential for college football free agency.

Sorry for the tangent.
I guess...to me, who cares if you do? Good for the player!

Look at Troy. He took an absolute beating this year, got injured, what's wrong with him getting paid?

Look at Tua Tuag(Hawaiian dude whose name I can't spell). Who knows how he comes back from his injury? Before that, he's a lock top 10 pick (and probably higher!). Even if he goes at the end of the first round, he's lost out on MILLIONS of dollars. So I hope the kids get as much money as they can out of this. They've earned it.



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Re: Quarterback

Post by 91catAlum » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:50 pm

bobcat99 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:16 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:19 pm
HelenaCat95 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:44 pm
Don't forget that FCOA can also help the parents. For a parent from out of state, travelling to games to watch their kid play can get very expensive. FCOA can help offset some of that.
This aspect probably would not have mattered to Lance, since his family lives about 90 minutes away from Fargo (I think I got that right).

NDSU is doing everything it can to stay ahead of the curve.....and it's working.
Imagine what things will be like in Fargo now that kids can sell their likeness for personal gain. With the kind of support that they get locally, I'm guessing that there will be a lot of new cars in the Football parking lot soon.
Visions of Eric Dickerson's Trans Am come to mind... :lol:

I just hate that rule. What's to stop a booster, like me, from paying Troy Andersen $10,000 for an autographed picture? Unless I'm misunderstanding the rule, it's just a huge can of worms opened up. Then you combine that with the Transfer Portal, and you have the potential for college football free agency.

Sorry for the tangent.
I guess...to me, who cares if you do? Good for the player!

Look at Troy. He took an absolute beating this year, got injured, what's wrong with him getting paid?

Look at Tua Tuag(Hawaiian dude whose name I can't spell). Who knows how he comes back from his injury? Before that, he's a lock top 10 pick (and probably higher!). Even if he goes at the end of the first round, he's lost out on MILLIONS of dollars. So I hope the kids get as much money as they can out of this. They've earned it.
I guess it's good for the kid, but bad for the sport. Are you really ok with college football becoming even more about who has the richest boosters? Recruits going to the highest bidder? He who has the gold makes the rules? And the transfer portal has the potential to make it worse. Let's say Denny Washington wants Troy Andersen on the griz so he offers him $200K for his picture, and for him to transfer to the griz. You still ok with that?
It's just hypothetical but if that's what it becomes, I'm out.


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bobcat99
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Re: Quarterback

Post by bobcat99 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:26 pm

91catAlum wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:50 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:16 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:19 pm
HelenaCat95 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:44 pm
Don't forget that FCOA can also help the parents. For a parent from out of state, travelling to games to watch their kid play can get very expensive. FCOA can help offset some of that.
This aspect probably would not have mattered to Lance, since his family lives about 90 minutes away from Fargo (I think I got that right).

NDSU is doing everything it can to stay ahead of the curve.....and it's working.
Imagine what things will be like in Fargo now that kids can sell their likeness for personal gain. With the kind of support that they get locally, I'm guessing that there will be a lot of new cars in the Football parking lot soon.
Visions of Eric Dickerson's Trans Am come to mind... :lol:

I just hate that rule. What's to stop a booster, like me, from paying Troy Andersen $10,000 for an autographed picture? Unless I'm misunderstanding the rule, it's just a huge can of worms opened up. Then you combine that with the Transfer Portal, and you have the potential for college football free agency.

Sorry for the tangent.
I guess...to me, who cares if you do? Good for the player!

Look at Troy. He took an absolute beating this year, got injured, what's wrong with him getting paid?

Look at Tua Tuag(Hawaiian dude whose name I can't spell). Who knows how he comes back from his injury? Before that, he's a lock top 10 pick (and probably higher!). Even if he goes at the end of the first round, he's lost out on MILLIONS of dollars. So I hope the kids get as much money as they can out of this. They've earned it.
I guess it's good for the kid, but bad for the sport. Are you really ok with college football becoming even more about who has the richest boosters? Recruits going to the highest bidder? He who has the gold makes the rules? And the transfer portal has the potential to make it worse. Let's say Denny Washington wants Troy Andersen on the griz so he offers him $200K for his picture, and for him to transfer to the griz. You still ok with that?
It's just hypothetical but if that's what it becomes, I'm out.
They could transfer before the portal too.

I'm not naive enough to think that college players and their families aren't already getting paid. I just don't care if they are. They're providing a service, they should get paid for it.



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Re: Quarterback

Post by codecat » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:18 pm

91catAlum wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:50 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:16 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:19 pm
HelenaCat95 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:44 pm
Don't forget that FCOA can also help the parents. For a parent from out of state, travelling to games to watch their kid play can get very expensive. FCOA can help offset some of that.
This aspect probably would not have mattered to Lance, since his family lives about 90 minutes away from Fargo (I think I got that right).

NDSU is doing everything it can to stay ahead of the curve.....and it's working.
Imagine what things will be like in Fargo now that kids can sell their likeness for personal gain. With the kind of support that they get locally, I'm guessing that there will be a lot of new cars in the Football parking lot soon.
Visions of Eric Dickerson's Trans Am come to mind... :lol:

I just hate that rule. What's to stop a booster, like me, from paying Troy Andersen $10,000 for an autographed picture? Unless I'm misunderstanding the rule, it's just a huge can of worms opened up. Then you combine that with the Transfer Portal, and you have the potential for college football free agency.

Sorry for the tangent.
I guess...to me, who cares if you do? Good for the player!

Look at Troy. He took an absolute beating this year, got injured, what's wrong with him getting paid?

Look at Tua Tuag(Hawaiian dude whose name I can't spell). Who knows how he comes back from his injury? Before that, he's a lock top 10 pick (and probably higher!). Even if he goes at the end of the first round, he's lost out on MILLIONS of dollars. So I hope the kids get as much money as they can out of this. They've earned it.
I guess it's good for the kid, but bad for the sport. Are you really ok with college football becoming even more about who has the richest boosters? Recruits going to the highest bidder? He who has the gold makes the rules? And the transfer portal has the potential to make it worse. Let's say Denny Washington wants Troy Andersen on the griz so he offers him $200K for his picture, and for him to transfer to the griz. You still ok with that?
It's just hypothetical but if that's what it becomes, I'm out.
Agree with you 91 - This is really much bigger than college football as peoples own greed and now the idea of "fairness" (i.e. a seemingly benign form of social control) has been employed and used effectively since 1965 to break up elements of our society that are strong cohesive groups and thus make the playing field "fair" for all citizens. (Reference-Herbert Marcuse and Repressive Tolerance)


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Re: Quarterback

Post by BLACKnBLUEnGOLD » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:47 am

The problem with arguments about college quarterbacks using high school stats is that you're using high school stats.

You might as well be basing the argument on blood types.


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Re: Quarterback

Post by VimSince03 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:01 am

BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:47 am
The problem with arguments about college quarterbacks using high school stats is that you're using high school stats.

You might as well be basing the argument on blood types.
Can be futile. Different levels of competition, different climates, different offensive systems, and different athletes.


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Re: Quarterback

Post by HelenaCat95 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:27 am

VimSince03 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:01 am
BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:47 am
The problem with arguments about college quarterbacks using high school stats is that you're using high school stats.

You might as well be basing the argument on blood types.
Can be futile. Different levels of competition, different climates, different offensive systems, and different athletes.
Exactly. That's why the tape is critical.
Watching tape, and knowing what to look for is the key. I just wish that I had a better eye for positions other than Oline.



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Re: Quarterback

Post by iaafan » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:23 am

HelenaCat95 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:27 am
VimSince03 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:01 am
BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:47 am
The problem with arguments about college quarterbacks using high school stats is that you're using high school stats.

You might as well be basing the argument on blood types.
Can be futile. Different levels of competition, different climates, different offensive systems, and different athletes.
Exactly. That's why the tape is critical.
Watching tape, and knowing what to look for is the key. I just wish that I had a better eye for positions other than Oline.
Conversely, a player can look great on film, but not produce in games. Remember Bruggman? You can’t just look at one thing when rating a player. Work ethic, productivity, game tape, attitude, commitment, perseverance, character...



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