Quarterback

Discuss anything and everything relating to Bobcat Football here.

Moderators: kmax, SonomaCat, rtb

Post Reply
bobcat99
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
Posts: 3695
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:11 am

Re: Quarterback

Post by bobcat99 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:40 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:30 pm
bobcatbob wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:05 pm
I was very happy with this season. I thought Rovig improved tremendously. He did a solid job. Now it is on to next year. I hope his improvement continues into Spring ball. However, his lack of quickness and speed is a negative. Also, he throws a lot off his back foot which is not good. He can work on that but the quickness and speed is not going to change. I think having a dual threat that can pass and run is much more effective. Hopefully McKay is the guy. Anxious to see how Tommy Mellot does. He appears to be a Lulay type. The kid is a leader. Will be good to see more competition at that position next year.
Mellott’s best comparison is Johnny Manziel style and skills-wise. I believe that’s why he wears #2.
I thought it was because he's "the ******", as the kids say.






Apparently that got filtered, but you can figure it out lol.



Cataholic
Member # Retired
Posts: 2315
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:09 pm

Re: Quarterback

Post by Cataholic » Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:37 pm

VimSince03 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:19 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:57 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:47 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:36 am
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:48 am
technoCat wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:42 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:47 am
technoCat wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:52 pm
utucats wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:04 pm
McKay didn’t choose Montana State on a promise that he can back up Rovig. It’s his job to lose.

We need a more dynamic QB. That’s just the truth.
But he may have chosen MSU because he knows that Choate isn't afraid to run packages for multiple QBs so his chances of playing are probably near 100%. I mistakenly said he would run the "wildcat" package but what I really meant was he would be that qb that comes in and threatens the +1 game but have legitimate throwing ability too. Something we lacked with Andersen and Jonsen this year. We still need a qb that can distribute the ball to other playmakers and run our offense which Rovig has a leg up on since he's played in the system longer. Granted if McKay is about even with him at the end of spring ball, he will probably get the start full-time since he is not going to be playing receiver at all so they wouldn't really be able to have both in the huddle at the same time.
I mean, can we look at this logically?

You're saying we should take out the starter, who can only pass, so that we can put in the backup, who can run and pass. This is a very simple explanation, but that's what you're saying here.

I just hate it. If the backup can do both adequately, then freaking roll with him! It stresses the defense more to have to constantly defend the pass/run.

I say this as somebody who has always liked/preferred the classic pocket QB. The stand tall in the pocket and deliver a rocket pass, kind of QB. I'm changing, evolving. Those kinds of QB's are still great, but rare! Unless you have an elite one, in today's football, you're much better off with a mobile option. It just puts more stress on a defense. Imagine running all of our packages without having to substitute personnel! That's a defensive coaches nightmare.
I am looking at it logically. Outside of the unicorns like Lance and Murray, almost every mobile qb I've seen gets hurt over the course of a year. IF Rovig is the better passer with the better grasp of the offense, it makes sense to limit the number of touches/hits McKay would take and given the fact that our offense has worked quite well with multiple qbs this last year and Miller has experience calling plays for both it might work.
Oh?

Jalen Hurts got hurt? Lulay got hurt? Trevor Lawrence got hurt? Lamar Jackson? Don't make me list all of the friggin mobile QB's in college football, man. Justin Fields. Even Joe Burrows is pretty mobile.

Look, football is a contact sport. Guys are going to get hurt, whether they're a mobile QB or a pocket QB. One of the worst injuries I've seen from a QB was in the pocket (Joe Theisman).

There is a reason basically nobody runs multiple QB's. It's inefficient. It's easier to scout and prepare for. The team doesn't know who "the guy" is. We ran multiple QB's out of necessity, not because they wanted to.

The thing with Rovig, is that to be a good pocket passer, you have to hit certain throws. Rovig threw about 4 passes the entire year. WR screen/bubble, hitch by the sideline, mesh (slant/crosser), and a go route. Basically nothing in the middle of the field. Nothing up the seam. And it's not just the offense, the guys are there, but the ball never goes there. You can mitigate these issues if you're a running threat, but he isn't. The offense is just much more dangerous with one guy, who can be a passing and running threat. Even if McKay is a little bit less of a passing threat, overall, he's still more dangerous if he can run. Running a 2-3 QB system is dumb.
It would seem that multiple QB’s would be harder for an opponent to prepare for. I recall media and others saying how hard it was to prepare for MSU this year because of the different looks with each option at QB: Rovig, Jonsen, Kassis, Ifanse and Andersen.

For the past four years, many have screamed for a true passing QB. Now you want to insert a different QB because he is a better runner than Rovig? Your dislike of Rovig has you making any argument to justify unseating him at QB. Here is a novel idea: Why don’t we celebrate the great season for now and wait until at least spring practice before anointing a new starter.
Was it harder to prepare for? Maybe substitution/package wise. Maybe just in terms of a lot to look for. Tendency wise? No, I don't think it was that difficult in comparison to how difficult it could be.

When Jonsen lined up, I would bet 90% of the time he kept it. So that's an easy tendency. You have to read the dive back, but again, 9/10 times Jonsen kept it. That's why it wasn't as effective later in the season. Same with the others, except that Kassis was occasionally a threat to pass. Rovig, would either hand off or pass. He wasn't a threat to run. And even when he did run, it didn't scare anybody. Now imagine that you have a QB who can do a little of it all. Threat to pass, threat to run. Not as good at running as say, Jonsen, or Andersen, obviously. Probably as good at passing as Rovig, but I'll hedge it and say he's a little worse. What do you think is more difficult to prepare for? The guy who stays in all the time, and can perform all of those duties? Or the multiple substitutions, where they might be better, but the defense knows what they're doing. The beauty of the first option is the illusion of difficulty. It's all different options, out of the same package.

And fwiw, yes, I argued we needed to be better at passing than when we had Andersen at QB. It was too one sided of an attack. And Rovig was a better passer! And we got further! But there is still a lot of room for improvement. I want a true dual threat QB because it is damn hard to defend. Having a QB who is only a threat in one facet of the offense is a liability, unless they're Peyton Manning.

Fwiw, I don't have a dislike of Rovig. I just don't think he's the starting QB that gets us to a championship. Sorry for wanting the best. It doesn't mean I'm not thrilled with this season, I am. But I can still be happy with the season, and want more. I can still be happy with this season, and discuss the next. If you'd like to write a guideline on how to be a proper fan, be my guest. I'd love to read it.

Ta, ta, for now, love.
So you want a quarterback that can run better than Rovig, but maybe not quite throw it as well... not a true drop back passer unless he is all pro caliber. That sounds like Chris Murray.. Did you complain about Murray? I don’t have the will to look back, but I am guessing that you even complained about Prukop... Of course we all want Lamar Jackson, but my guess is that you would still find something to complain about.

I am not sure about being a proper fan, but given that this was the most successful season in about 35 years, how many of your posts in the past two weeks have been positive? Maybe a better question (and probably why I don’t care for you), how many of your posts have been abrasive or condescending?
99's posts are relatively honest and bring up good discussion points which most want to participate in. I disagree with him as much as I agree on other points. Instead of being this way back to him, ask him some questions like "what type of offense best suits our personnel if we stick with Tucker" or "if we get a dual threat QB, what do we need to add/change" and give your opinions. Its a discussion board. 99 wants more out of the QB position and listed his reasons why. You disagree with those reasons. That's all it has to be Cataholic. YOU are the one who makes it more. The guy has no ill will towards anyone. Call him out if you must if you believe he is throwing too much criticism at college football players but at least he gives reasons why instead of nonsense narrative BS we hear from other posters on this board.
Vim, I have a tremendous amount of respect for your opinion and how you carry yourself on the board. With all due respect, I think there are a lot of posters that get shouted down by a select few like 99. His approach is condescending and quite frankly, he is a dick half the time. If he acted half as professionally as you do, you would probably see more participation from a larger number of people. Just my two cents... to quote 99, “ta, ta, for now my love”. Such a classy guy.



TomCat88
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 13710
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:16 am
Location: An endless run of moguls

Re: Quarterback

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:59 pm

bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:40 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:30 pm
bobcatbob wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:05 pm
I was very happy with this season. I thought Rovig improved tremendously. He did a solid job. Now it is on to next year. I hope his improvement continues into Spring ball. However, his lack of quickness and speed is a negative. Also, he throws a lot off his back foot which is not good. He can work on that but the quickness and speed is not going to change. I think having a dual threat that can pass and run is much more effective. Hopefully McKay is the guy. Anxious to see how Tommy Mellot does. He appears to be a Lulay type. The kid is a leader. Will be good to see more competition at that position next year.
Mellott’s best comparison is Johnny Manziel style and skills-wise. I believe that’s why he wears #2.
I thought it was because he's "the ******", as the kids say.






Apparently that got filtered, but you can figure it out lol.
Nah, that doesn’t fit his style.


MSU - 14 team National Champions (most recent 2011); 52 individual National Champions (most recent 2017).
toM StUber

User avatar
grizzh8r
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 5928
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:23 pm
Location: Billings via Livingston
Contact:

Re: Quarterback

Post by grizzh8r » Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:29 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:37 pm
VimSince03 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:19 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:57 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:47 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:36 am
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:48 am
technoCat wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:42 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:47 am
technoCat wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:52 pm
utucats wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:04 pm
McKay didn’t choose Montana State on a promise that he can back up Rovig. It’s his job to lose.

We need a more dynamic QB. That’s just the truth.
But he may have chosen MSU because he knows that Choate isn't afraid to run packages for multiple QBs so his chances of playing are probably near 100%. I mistakenly said he would run the "wildcat" package but what I really meant was he would be that qb that comes in and threatens the +1 game but have legitimate throwing ability too. Something we lacked with Andersen and Jonsen this year. We still need a qb that can distribute the ball to other playmakers and run our offense which Rovig has a leg up on since he's played in the system longer. Granted if McKay is about even with him at the end of spring ball, he will probably get the start full-time since he is not going to be playing receiver at all so they wouldn't really be able to have both in the huddle at the same time.
I mean, can we look at this logically?

You're saying we should take out the starter, who can only pass, so that we can put in the backup, who can run and pass. This is a very simple explanation, but that's what you're saying here.

I just hate it. If the backup can do both adequately, then freaking roll with him! It stresses the defense more to have to constantly defend the pass/run.

I say this as somebody who has always liked/preferred the classic pocket QB. The stand tall in the pocket and deliver a rocket pass, kind of QB. I'm changing, evolving. Those kinds of QB's are still great, but rare! Unless you have an elite one, in today's football, you're much better off with a mobile option. It just puts more stress on a defense. Imagine running all of our packages without having to substitute personnel! That's a defensive coaches nightmare.
I am looking at it logically. Outside of the unicorns like Lance and Murray, almost every mobile qb I've seen gets hurt over the course of a year. IF Rovig is the better passer with the better grasp of the offense, it makes sense to limit the number of touches/hits McKay would take and given the fact that our offense has worked quite well with multiple qbs this last year and Miller has experience calling plays for both it might work.
Oh?

Jalen Hurts got hurt? Lulay got hurt? Trevor Lawrence got hurt? Lamar Jackson? Don't make me list all of the friggin mobile QB's in college football, man. Justin Fields. Even Joe Burrows is pretty mobile.

Look, football is a contact sport. Guys are going to get hurt, whether they're a mobile QB or a pocket QB. One of the worst injuries I've seen from a QB was in the pocket (Joe Theisman).

There is a reason basically nobody runs multiple QB's. It's inefficient. It's easier to scout and prepare for. The team doesn't know who "the guy" is. We ran multiple QB's out of necessity, not because they wanted to.

The thing with Rovig, is that to be a good pocket passer, you have to hit certain throws. Rovig threw about 4 passes the entire year. WR screen/bubble, hitch by the sideline, mesh (slant/crosser), and a go route. Basically nothing in the middle of the field. Nothing up the seam. And it's not just the offense, the guys are there, but the ball never goes there. You can mitigate these issues if you're a running threat, but he isn't. The offense is just much more dangerous with one guy, who can be a passing and running threat. Even if McKay is a little bit less of a passing threat, overall, he's still more dangerous if he can run. Running a 2-3 QB system is dumb.
It would seem that multiple QB’s would be harder for an opponent to prepare for. I recall media and others saying how hard it was to prepare for MSU this year because of the different looks with each option at QB: Rovig, Jonsen, Kassis, Ifanse and Andersen.

For the past four years, many have screamed for a true passing QB. Now you want to insert a different QB because he is a better runner than Rovig? Your dislike of Rovig has you making any argument to justify unseating him at QB. Here is a novel idea: Why don’t we celebrate the great season for now and wait until at least spring practice before anointing a new starter.
Was it harder to prepare for? Maybe substitution/package wise. Maybe just in terms of a lot to look for. Tendency wise? No, I don't think it was that difficult in comparison to how difficult it could be.

When Jonsen lined up, I would bet 90% of the time he kept it. So that's an easy tendency. You have to read the dive back, but again, 9/10 times Jonsen kept it. That's why it wasn't as effective later in the season. Same with the others, except that Kassis was occasionally a threat to pass. Rovig, would either hand off or pass. He wasn't a threat to run. And even when he did run, it didn't scare anybody. Now imagine that you have a QB who can do a little of it all. Threat to pass, threat to run. Not as good at running as say, Jonsen, or Andersen, obviously. Probably as good at passing as Rovig, but I'll hedge it and say he's a little worse. What do you think is more difficult to prepare for? The guy who stays in all the time, and can perform all of those duties? Or the multiple substitutions, where they might be better, but the defense knows what they're doing. The beauty of the first option is the illusion of difficulty. It's all different options, out of the same package.

And fwiw, yes, I argued we needed to be better at passing than when we had Andersen at QB. It was too one sided of an attack. And Rovig was a better passer! And we got further! But there is still a lot of room for improvement. I want a true dual threat QB because it is damn hard to defend. Having a QB who is only a threat in one facet of the offense is a liability, unless they're Peyton Manning.

Fwiw, I don't have a dislike of Rovig. I just don't think he's the starting QB that gets us to a championship. Sorry for wanting the best. It doesn't mean I'm not thrilled with this season, I am. But I can still be happy with the season, and want more. I can still be happy with this season, and discuss the next. If you'd like to write a guideline on how to be a proper fan, be my guest. I'd love to read it.

Ta, ta, for now, love.
So you want a quarterback that can run better than Rovig, but maybe not quite throw it as well... not a true drop back passer unless he is all pro caliber. That sounds like Chris Murray.. Did you complain about Murray? I don’t have the will to look back, but I am guessing that you even complained about Prukop... Of course we all want Lamar Jackson, but my guess is that you would still find something to complain about.

I am not sure about being a proper fan, but given that this was the most successful season in about 35 years, how many of your posts in the past two weeks have been positive? Maybe a better question (and probably why I don’t care for you), how many of your posts have been abrasive or condescending?
99's posts are relatively honest and bring up good discussion points which most want to participate in. I disagree with him as much as I agree on other points. Instead of being this way back to him, ask him some questions like "what type of offense best suits our personnel if we stick with Tucker" or "if we get a dual threat QB, what do we need to add/change" and give your opinions. Its a discussion board. 99 wants more out of the QB position and listed his reasons why. You disagree with those reasons. That's all it has to be Cataholic. YOU are the one who makes it more. The guy has no ill will towards anyone. Call him out if you must if you believe he is throwing too much criticism at college football players but at least he gives reasons why instead of nonsense narrative BS we hear from other posters on this board.
Vim, I have a tremendous amount of respect for your opinion and how you carry yourself on the board. With all due respect, I think there are a lot of posters that get shouted down by a select few like 99. His approach is condescending and quite frankly, he is a dick half the time. If he acted half as professionally as you do, you would probably see more participation from a larger number of people. Just my two cents... to quote 99, “ta, ta, for now my love”. Such a classy guy.
Has nothing to do with being "classy". That's a straw man. It's all about the difference in personality. He's blunt, a realist, as subtle as a 10 lb Sledge hammer, isn't afraid to hurt anyone's feelings with the truth, knows that just because a player is a starter for the Bobcats doesn't immediately make him the best player at that position in the big sky, and is extremely sarcastic. His personality is a direct clash with yours.

Oh and for the record, I don't know him from Adam, I just happen to share personality traits with him. So yes, I do find myself agreeing with what he has to say much of the time, and often shake my head at some of what you have to say. And that's okay, this world would be a very boring place if we all had the exact same viewpoint.

As far as the QB discussion goes, we all know - by his own admission! - that Choate hasn't recruited and/or developed "that guy" as yet at QB. Someone that is an all conference type performer (so 1st thru 3rd teamer or even HM). Can Rovig be this guy? Maybe, maybe not. I'd be happy for him if he did, as would almost all Bobcat fans.

But you know Choates job is to recruit over every player on his roster and if he brings in a more talented kid than Rovig, that's how the cookie crumbles. Gonna be an interesting spring and fall camp. Can't wait!


Eric Curry STILL makes me sad.
94VegasCat wrote:Are you for real? That is just a plain ol dumb paragraph! You just nailed every note in the Full Retard sing-a-long choir!!!
:rofl:

Cataholic
Member # Retired
Posts: 2315
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:09 pm

Re: Quarterback

Post by Cataholic » Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:37 am

grizzh8r wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:29 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:37 pm
VimSince03 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:19 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:57 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:47 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:36 am
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:48 am
technoCat wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:42 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:47 am
technoCat wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:52 pm


But he may have chosen MSU because he knows that Choate isn't afraid to run packages for multiple QBs so his chances of playing are probably near 100%. I mistakenly said he would run the "wildcat" package but what I really meant was he would be that qb that comes in and threatens the +1 game but have legitimate throwing ability too. Something we lacked with Andersen and Jonsen this year. We still need a qb that can distribute the ball to other playmakers and run our offense which Rovig has a leg up on since he's played in the system longer. Granted if McKay is about even with him at the end of spring ball, he will probably get the start full-time since he is not going to be playing receiver at all so they wouldn't really be able to have both in the huddle at the same time.
I mean, can we look at this logically?

You're saying we should take out the starter, who can only pass, so that we can put in the backup, who can run and pass. This is a very simple explanation, but that's what you're saying here.

I just hate it. If the backup can do both adequately, then freaking roll with him! It stresses the defense more to have to constantly defend the pass/run.

I say this as somebody who has always liked/preferred the classic pocket QB. The stand tall in the pocket and deliver a rocket pass, kind of QB. I'm changing, evolving. Those kinds of QB's are still great, but rare! Unless you have an elite one, in today's football, you're much better off with a mobile option. It just puts more stress on a defense. Imagine running all of our packages without having to substitute personnel! That's a defensive coaches nightmare.
I am looking at it logically. Outside of the unicorns like Lance and Murray, almost every mobile qb I've seen gets hurt over the course of a year. IF Rovig is the better passer with the better grasp of the offense, it makes sense to limit the number of touches/hits McKay would take and given the fact that our offense has worked quite well with multiple qbs this last year and Miller has experience calling plays for both it might work.
Oh?

Jalen Hurts got hurt? Lulay got hurt? Trevor Lawrence got hurt? Lamar Jackson? Don't make me list all of the friggin mobile QB's in college football, man. Justin Fields. Even Joe Burrows is pretty mobile.

Look, football is a contact sport. Guys are going to get hurt, whether they're a mobile QB or a pocket QB. One of the worst injuries I've seen from a QB was in the pocket (Joe Theisman).

There is a reason basically nobody runs multiple QB's. It's inefficient. It's easier to scout and prepare for. The team doesn't know who "the guy" is. We ran multiple QB's out of necessity, not because they wanted to.

The thing with Rovig, is that to be a good pocket passer, you have to hit certain throws. Rovig threw about 4 passes the entire year. WR screen/bubble, hitch by the sideline, mesh (slant/crosser), and a go route. Basically nothing in the middle of the field. Nothing up the seam. And it's not just the offense, the guys are there, but the ball never goes there. You can mitigate these issues if you're a running threat, but he isn't. The offense is just much more dangerous with one guy, who can be a passing and running threat. Even if McKay is a little bit less of a passing threat, overall, he's still more dangerous if he can run. Running a 2-3 QB system is dumb.
It would seem that multiple QB’s would be harder for an opponent to prepare for. I recall media and others saying how hard it was to prepare for MSU this year because of the different looks with each option at QB: Rovig, Jonsen, Kassis, Ifanse and Andersen.

For the past four years, many have screamed for a true passing QB. Now you want to insert a different QB because he is a better runner than Rovig? Your dislike of Rovig has you making any argument to justify unseating him at QB. Here is a novel idea: Why don’t we celebrate the great season for now and wait until at least spring practice before anointing a new starter.
Was it harder to prepare for? Maybe substitution/package wise. Maybe just in terms of a lot to look for. Tendency wise? No, I don't think it was that difficult in comparison to how difficult it could be.

When Jonsen lined up, I would bet 90% of the time he kept it. So that's an easy tendency. You have to read the dive back, but again, 9/10 times Jonsen kept it. That's why it wasn't as effective later in the season. Same with the others, except that Kassis was occasionally a threat to pass. Rovig, would either hand off or pass. He wasn't a threat to run. And even when he did run, it didn't scare anybody. Now imagine that you have a QB who can do a little of it all. Threat to pass, threat to run. Not as good at running as say, Jonsen, or Andersen, obviously. Probably as good at passing as Rovig, but I'll hedge it and say he's a little worse. What do you think is more difficult to prepare for? The guy who stays in all the time, and can perform all of those duties? Or the multiple substitutions, where they might be better, but the defense knows what they're doing. The beauty of the first option is the illusion of difficulty. It's all different options, out of the same package.

And fwiw, yes, I argued we needed to be better at passing than when we had Andersen at QB. It was too one sided of an attack. And Rovig was a better passer! And we got further! But there is still a lot of room for improvement. I want a true dual threat QB because it is damn hard to defend. Having a QB who is only a threat in one facet of the offense is a liability, unless they're Peyton Manning.

Fwiw, I don't have a dislike of Rovig. I just don't think he's the starting QB that gets us to a championship. Sorry for wanting the best. It doesn't mean I'm not thrilled with this season, I am. But I can still be happy with the season, and want more. I can still be happy with this season, and discuss the next. If you'd like to write a guideline on how to be a proper fan, be my guest. I'd love to read it.

Ta, ta, for now, love.
So you want a quarterback that can run better than Rovig, but maybe not quite throw it as well... not a true drop back passer unless he is all pro caliber. That sounds like Chris Murray.. Did you complain about Murray? I don’t have the will to look back, but I am guessing that you even complained about Prukop... Of course we all want Lamar Jackson, but my guess is that you would still find something to complain about.

I am not sure about being a proper fan, but given that this was the most successful season in about 35 years, how many of your posts in the past two weeks have been positive? Maybe a better question (and probably why I don’t care for you), how many of your posts have been abrasive or condescending?
99's posts are relatively honest and bring up good discussion points which most want to participate in. I disagree with him as much as I agree on other points. Instead of being this way back to him, ask him some questions like "what type of offense best suits our personnel if we stick with Tucker" or "if we get a dual threat QB, what do we need to add/change" and give your opinions. Its a discussion board. 99 wants more out of the QB position and listed his reasons why. You disagree with those reasons. That's all it has to be Cataholic. YOU are the one who makes it more. The guy has no ill will towards anyone. Call him out if you must if you believe he is throwing too much criticism at college football players but at least he gives reasons why instead of nonsense narrative BS we hear from other posters on this board.
Vim, I have a tremendous amount of respect for your opinion and how you carry yourself on the board. With all due respect, I think there are a lot of posters that get shouted down by a select few like 99. His approach is condescending and quite frankly, he is a dick half the time. If he acted half as professionally as you do, you would probably see more participation from a larger number of people. Just my two cents... to quote 99, “ta, ta, for now my love”. Such a classy guy.
Has nothing to do with being "classy". That's a straw man. It's all about the difference in personality. He's blunt, a realist, as subtle as a 10 lb Sledge hammer, isn't afraid to hurt anyone's feelings with the truth, knows that just because a player is a starter for the Bobcats doesn't immediately make him the best player at that position in the big sky, and is extremely sarcastic. His personality is a direct clash with yours.

Oh and for the record, I don't know him from Adam, I just happen to share personality traits with him. So yes, I do find myself agreeing with what he has to say much of the time, and often shake my head at some of what you have to say. And that's okay, this world would be a very boring place if we all had the exact same viewpoint.

As far as the QB discussion goes, we all know - by his own admission! - that Choate hasn't recruited and/or developed "that guy" as yet at QB. Someone that is an all conference type performer (so 1st thru 3rd teamer or even HM). Can Rovig be this guy? Maybe, maybe not. I'd be happy for him if he did, as would almost all Bobcat fans.

But you know Choates job is to recruit over every player on his roster and if he brings in a more talented kid than Rovig, that's how the cookie crumbles. Gonna be an interesting spring and fall camp. Can't wait!
I appreciate the candid post. And I agree with a lot of it. I don’t agree with your perception on being “classy” as a straw man argument. It would seem that some level of civility would make the board a better place. I find is strange that when a guy is being an ass and is called out for it, that other posters would say “oh it is just the way he is”? Does that make it okay? It boggles my mind, but maybe that is the way anonymous Internet forums are meant to be.

In regard to the QB discussion, I have zero problem with Choate looking for a better QB. I also expect him to be doing the same for every other position. None of my posts above say that Rovig should be the starter moving forward. That is in direct contrast to 99 saying some pretty nasty stuff about Rovig over the season. That is not cool. Don’t call me the PC police. Anybody who is okay with trashing a 19-20 year old kid who is part of the team (and has been intregal to the team) should re-examine their priorities.



iaafan
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 4854
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 12:44 pm

Re: Quarterback

Post by iaafan » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:39 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:30 pm
bobcatbob wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:05 pm
I was very happy with this season. I thought Rovig improved tremendously. He did a solid job. Now it is on to next year. I hope his improvement continues into Spring ball. However, his lack of quickness and speed is a negative. Also, he throws a lot off his back foot which is not good. He can work on that but the quickness and speed is not going to change. I think having a dual threat that can pass and run is much more effective. Hopefully McKay is the guy. Anxious to see how Tommy Mellot does. He appears to be a Lulay type. The kid is a leader. Will be good to see more competition at that position next year.
Mellott’s best comparison is Johnny Manziel style and skills-wise. I believe that’s why he wears #2.
This x 1,000,000!
There’s almost no way McKay is going to beat out Rovig. And Rovig won’t hold off Mellott for long.

McKay is not a good passer, unless he’s vastly improved since high school. His career high school numbers: 442-881-44, 5,932 yards, 58 TDs 50.2%; 424-1,909-24 4.5 rushing over 3 seasons as a starter. If you drop his sophomore numbers: 284-522-21, 3,672, 37 TDs, 54%, 128.8 passer rating; 339-1,786-20 5.3 ypc.

Compare this to Mellott:
Career: 558-967-23, 69, 7,089, 57.7%; 424-2,499-31, 5.9 ypc. Drop sophomore year: 385-663-11, 5,096, 49, 58%, 143.7; 320-2,098-27, 6.6 ypc.



bobcat99
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
Posts: 3695
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:11 am

Re: Quarterback

Post by bobcat99 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:20 am

grizzh8r wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:29 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:37 pm
VimSince03 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:19 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:57 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:47 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:36 am
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:48 am
technoCat wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:42 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:47 am
technoCat wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:52 pm


But he may have chosen MSU because he knows that Choate isn't afraid to run packages for multiple QBs so his chances of playing are probably near 100%. I mistakenly said he would run the "wildcat" package but what I really meant was he would be that qb that comes in and threatens the +1 game but have legitimate throwing ability too. Something we lacked with Andersen and Jonsen this year. We still need a qb that can distribute the ball to other playmakers and run our offense which Rovig has a leg up on since he's played in the system longer. Granted if McKay is about even with him at the end of spring ball, he will probably get the start full-time since he is not going to be playing receiver at all so they wouldn't really be able to have both in the huddle at the same time.
I mean, can we look at this logically?

You're saying we should take out the starter, who can only pass, so that we can put in the backup, who can run and pass. This is a very simple explanation, but that's what you're saying here.

I just hate it. If the backup can do both adequately, then freaking roll with him! It stresses the defense more to have to constantly defend the pass/run.

I say this as somebody who has always liked/preferred the classic pocket QB. The stand tall in the pocket and deliver a rocket pass, kind of QB. I'm changing, evolving. Those kinds of QB's are still great, but rare! Unless you have an elite one, in today's football, you're much better off with a mobile option. It just puts more stress on a defense. Imagine running all of our packages without having to substitute personnel! That's a defensive coaches nightmare.
I am looking at it logically. Outside of the unicorns like Lance and Murray, almost every mobile qb I've seen gets hurt over the course of a year. IF Rovig is the better passer with the better grasp of the offense, it makes sense to limit the number of touches/hits McKay would take and given the fact that our offense has worked quite well with multiple qbs this last year and Miller has experience calling plays for both it might work.
Oh?

Jalen Hurts got hurt? Lulay got hurt? Trevor Lawrence got hurt? Lamar Jackson? Don't make me list all of the friggin mobile QB's in college football, man. Justin Fields. Even Joe Burrows is pretty mobile.

Look, football is a contact sport. Guys are going to get hurt, whether they're a mobile QB or a pocket QB. One of the worst injuries I've seen from a QB was in the pocket (Joe Theisman).

There is a reason basically nobody runs multiple QB's. It's inefficient. It's easier to scout and prepare for. The team doesn't know who "the guy" is. We ran multiple QB's out of necessity, not because they wanted to.

The thing with Rovig, is that to be a good pocket passer, you have to hit certain throws. Rovig threw about 4 passes the entire year. WR screen/bubble, hitch by the sideline, mesh (slant/crosser), and a go route. Basically nothing in the middle of the field. Nothing up the seam. And it's not just the offense, the guys are there, but the ball never goes there. You can mitigate these issues if you're a running threat, but he isn't. The offense is just much more dangerous with one guy, who can be a passing and running threat. Even if McKay is a little bit less of a passing threat, overall, he's still more dangerous if he can run. Running a 2-3 QB system is dumb.
It would seem that multiple QB’s would be harder for an opponent to prepare for. I recall media and others saying how hard it was to prepare for MSU this year because of the different looks with each option at QB: Rovig, Jonsen, Kassis, Ifanse and Andersen.

For the past four years, many have screamed for a true passing QB. Now you want to insert a different QB because he is a better runner than Rovig? Your dislike of Rovig has you making any argument to justify unseating him at QB. Here is a novel idea: Why don’t we celebrate the great season for now and wait until at least spring practice before anointing a new starter.
Was it harder to prepare for? Maybe substitution/package wise. Maybe just in terms of a lot to look for. Tendency wise? No, I don't think it was that difficult in comparison to how difficult it could be.

When Jonsen lined up, I would bet 90% of the time he kept it. So that's an easy tendency. You have to read the dive back, but again, 9/10 times Jonsen kept it. That's why it wasn't as effective later in the season. Same with the others, except that Kassis was occasionally a threat to pass. Rovig, would either hand off or pass. He wasn't a threat to run. And even when he did run, it didn't scare anybody. Now imagine that you have a QB who can do a little of it all. Threat to pass, threat to run. Not as good at running as say, Jonsen, or Andersen, obviously. Probably as good at passing as Rovig, but I'll hedge it and say he's a little worse. What do you think is more difficult to prepare for? The guy who stays in all the time, and can perform all of those duties? Or the multiple substitutions, where they might be better, but the defense knows what they're doing. The beauty of the first option is the illusion of difficulty. It's all different options, out of the same package.

And fwiw, yes, I argued we needed to be better at passing than when we had Andersen at QB. It was too one sided of an attack. And Rovig was a better passer! And we got further! But there is still a lot of room for improvement. I want a true dual threat QB because it is damn hard to defend. Having a QB who is only a threat in one facet of the offense is a liability, unless they're Peyton Manning.

Fwiw, I don't have a dislike of Rovig. I just don't think he's the starting QB that gets us to a championship. Sorry for wanting the best. It doesn't mean I'm not thrilled with this season, I am. But I can still be happy with the season, and want more. I can still be happy with this season, and discuss the next. If you'd like to write a guideline on how to be a proper fan, be my guest. I'd love to read it.

Ta, ta, for now, love.
So you want a quarterback that can run better than Rovig, but maybe not quite throw it as well... not a true drop back passer unless he is all pro caliber. That sounds like Chris Murray.. Did you complain about Murray? I don’t have the will to look back, but I am guessing that you even complained about Prukop... Of course we all want Lamar Jackson, but my guess is that you would still find something to complain about.

I am not sure about being a proper fan, but given that this was the most successful season in about 35 years, how many of your posts in the past two weeks have been positive? Maybe a better question (and probably why I don’t care for you), how many of your posts have been abrasive or condescending?
99's posts are relatively honest and bring up good discussion points which most want to participate in. I disagree with him as much as I agree on other points. Instead of being this way back to him, ask him some questions like "what type of offense best suits our personnel if we stick with Tucker" or "if we get a dual threat QB, what do we need to add/change" and give your opinions. Its a discussion board. 99 wants more out of the QB position and listed his reasons why. You disagree with those reasons. That's all it has to be Cataholic. YOU are the one who makes it more. The guy has no ill will towards anyone. Call him out if you must if you believe he is throwing too much criticism at college football players but at least he gives reasons why instead of nonsense narrative BS we hear from other posters on this board.
Vim, I have a tremendous amount of respect for your opinion and how you carry yourself on the board. With all due respect, I think there are a lot of posters that get shouted down by a select few like 99. His approach is condescending and quite frankly, he is a dick half the time. If he acted half as professionally as you do, you would probably see more participation from a larger number of people. Just my two cents... to quote 99, “ta, ta, for now my love”. Such a classy guy.
Has nothing to do with being "classy". That's a straw man. It's all about the difference in personality. He's blunt, a realist, as subtle as a 10 lb Sledge hammer, isn't afraid to hurt anyone's feelings with the truth, knows that just because a player is a starter for the Bobcats doesn't immediately make him the best player at that position in the big sky, and is extremely sarcastic. His personality is a direct clash with yours.

Oh and for the record, I don't know him from Adam, I just happen to share personality traits with him. So yes, I do find myself agreeing with what he has to say much of the time, and often shake my head at some of what you have to say. And that's okay, this world would be a very boring place if we all had the exact same viewpoint.

As far as the QB discussion goes, we all know - by his own admission! - that Choate hasn't recruited and/or developed "that guy" as yet at QB. Someone that is an all conference type performer (so 1st thru 3rd teamer or even HM). Can Rovig be this guy? Maybe, maybe not. I'd be happy for him if he did, as would almost all Bobcat fans.

But you know Choates job is to recruit over every player on his roster and if he brings in a more talented kid than Rovig, that's how the cookie crumbles. Gonna be an interesting spring and fall camp. Can't wait!
Please.

I'm at least a 20lb sledge hammer.


*Flexes*



bobcat99
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
Posts: 3695
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:11 am

Re: Quarterback

Post by bobcat99 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:36 am

Cataholic wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:37 am
grizzh8r wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:29 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:37 pm
VimSince03 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:19 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:57 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:47 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:36 am
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:48 am
technoCat wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:42 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:47 am


I mean, can we look at this logically?

You're saying we should take out the starter, who can only pass, so that we can put in the backup, who can run and pass. This is a very simple explanation, but that's what you're saying here.

I just hate it. If the backup can do both adequately, then freaking roll with him! It stresses the defense more to have to constantly defend the pass/run.

I say this as somebody who has always liked/preferred the classic pocket QB. The stand tall in the pocket and deliver a rocket pass, kind of QB. I'm changing, evolving. Those kinds of QB's are still great, but rare! Unless you have an elite one, in today's football, you're much better off with a mobile option. It just puts more stress on a defense. Imagine running all of our packages without having to substitute personnel! That's a defensive coaches nightmare.
I am looking at it logically. Outside of the unicorns like Lance and Murray, almost every mobile qb I've seen gets hurt over the course of a year. IF Rovig is the better passer with the better grasp of the offense, it makes sense to limit the number of touches/hits McKay would take and given the fact that our offense has worked quite well with multiple qbs this last year and Miller has experience calling plays for both it might work.
Oh?

Jalen Hurts got hurt? Lulay got hurt? Trevor Lawrence got hurt? Lamar Jackson? Don't make me list all of the friggin mobile QB's in college football, man. Justin Fields. Even Joe Burrows is pretty mobile.

Look, football is a contact sport. Guys are going to get hurt, whether they're a mobile QB or a pocket QB. One of the worst injuries I've seen from a QB was in the pocket (Joe Theisman).

There is a reason basically nobody runs multiple QB's. It's inefficient. It's easier to scout and prepare for. The team doesn't know who "the guy" is. We ran multiple QB's out of necessity, not because they wanted to.

The thing with Rovig, is that to be a good pocket passer, you have to hit certain throws. Rovig threw about 4 passes the entire year. WR screen/bubble, hitch by the sideline, mesh (slant/crosser), and a go route. Basically nothing in the middle of the field. Nothing up the seam. And it's not just the offense, the guys are there, but the ball never goes there. You can mitigate these issues if you're a running threat, but he isn't. The offense is just much more dangerous with one guy, who can be a passing and running threat. Even if McKay is a little bit less of a passing threat, overall, he's still more dangerous if he can run. Running a 2-3 QB system is dumb.
It would seem that multiple QB’s would be harder for an opponent to prepare for. I recall media and others saying how hard it was to prepare for MSU this year because of the different looks with each option at QB: Rovig, Jonsen, Kassis, Ifanse and Andersen.

For the past four years, many have screamed for a true passing QB. Now you want to insert a different QB because he is a better runner than Rovig? Your dislike of Rovig has you making any argument to justify unseating him at QB. Here is a novel idea: Why don’t we celebrate the great season for now and wait until at least spring practice before anointing a new starter.
Was it harder to prepare for? Maybe substitution/package wise. Maybe just in terms of a lot to look for. Tendency wise? No, I don't think it was that difficult in comparison to how difficult it could be.

When Jonsen lined up, I would bet 90% of the time he kept it. So that's an easy tendency. You have to read the dive back, but again, 9/10 times Jonsen kept it. That's why it wasn't as effective later in the season. Same with the others, except that Kassis was occasionally a threat to pass. Rovig, would either hand off or pass. He wasn't a threat to run. And even when he did run, it didn't scare anybody. Now imagine that you have a QB who can do a little of it all. Threat to pass, threat to run. Not as good at running as say, Jonsen, or Andersen, obviously. Probably as good at passing as Rovig, but I'll hedge it and say he's a little worse. What do you think is more difficult to prepare for? The guy who stays in all the time, and can perform all of those duties? Or the multiple substitutions, where they might be better, but the defense knows what they're doing. The beauty of the first option is the illusion of difficulty. It's all different options, out of the same package.

And fwiw, yes, I argued we needed to be better at passing than when we had Andersen at QB. It was too one sided of an attack. And Rovig was a better passer! And we got further! But there is still a lot of room for improvement. I want a true dual threat QB because it is damn hard to defend. Having a QB who is only a threat in one facet of the offense is a liability, unless they're Peyton Manning.

Fwiw, I don't have a dislike of Rovig. I just don't think he's the starting QB that gets us to a championship. Sorry for wanting the best. It doesn't mean I'm not thrilled with this season, I am. But I can still be happy with the season, and want more. I can still be happy with this season, and discuss the next. If you'd like to write a guideline on how to be a proper fan, be my guest. I'd love to read it.

Ta, ta, for now, love.
So you want a quarterback that can run better than Rovig, but maybe not quite throw it as well... not a true drop back passer unless he is all pro caliber. That sounds like Chris Murray.. Did you complain about Murray? I don’t have the will to look back, but I am guessing that you even complained about Prukop... Of course we all want Lamar Jackson, but my guess is that you would still find something to complain about.

I am not sure about being a proper fan, but given that this was the most successful season in about 35 years, how many of your posts in the past two weeks have been positive? Maybe a better question (and probably why I don’t care for you), how many of your posts have been abrasive or condescending?
99's posts are relatively honest and bring up good discussion points which most want to participate in. I disagree with him as much as I agree on other points. Instead of being this way back to him, ask him some questions like "what type of offense best suits our personnel if we stick with Tucker" or "if we get a dual threat QB, what do we need to add/change" and give your opinions. Its a discussion board. 99 wants more out of the QB position and listed his reasons why. You disagree with those reasons. That's all it has to be Cataholic. YOU are the one who makes it more. The guy has no ill will towards anyone. Call him out if you must if you believe he is throwing too much criticism at college football players but at least he gives reasons why instead of nonsense narrative BS we hear from other posters on this board.
Vim, I have a tremendous amount of respect for your opinion and how you carry yourself on the board. With all due respect, I think there are a lot of posters that get shouted down by a select few like 99. His approach is condescending and quite frankly, he is a dick half the time. If he acted half as professionally as you do, you would probably see more participation from a larger number of people. Just my two cents... to quote 99, “ta, ta, for now my love”. Such a classy guy.
Has nothing to do with being "classy". That's a straw man. It's all about the difference in personality. He's blunt, a realist, as subtle as a 10 lb Sledge hammer, isn't afraid to hurt anyone's feelings with the truth, knows that just because a player is a starter for the Bobcats doesn't immediately make him the best player at that position in the big sky, and is extremely sarcastic. His personality is a direct clash with yours.

Oh and for the record, I don't know him from Adam, I just happen to share personality traits with him. So yes, I do find myself agreeing with what he has to say much of the time, and often shake my head at some of what you have to say. And that's okay, this world would be a very boring place if we all had the exact same viewpoint.

As far as the QB discussion goes, we all know - by his own admission! - that Choate hasn't recruited and/or developed "that guy" as yet at QB. Someone that is an all conference type performer (so 1st thru 3rd teamer or even HM). Can Rovig be this guy? Maybe, maybe not. I'd be happy for him if he did, as would almost all Bobcat fans.

But you know Choates job is to recruit over every player on his roster and if he brings in a more talented kid than Rovig, that's how the cookie crumbles. Gonna be an interesting spring and fall camp. Can't wait!
I appreciate the candid post. And I agree with a lot of it. I don’t agree with your perception on being “classy” as a straw man argument. It would seem that some level of civility would make the board a better place. I find is strange that when a guy is being an ass and is called out for it, that other posters would say “oh it is just the way he is”? Does that make it okay? It boggles my mind, but maybe that is the way anonymous Internet forums are meant to be.

In regard to the QB discussion, I have zero problem with Choate looking for a better QB. I also expect him to be doing the same for every other position. None of my posts above say that Rovig should be the starter moving forward. That is in direct contrast to 99 saying some pretty nasty stuff about Rovig over the season. That is not cool. Don’t call me the PC police. Anybody who is okay with trashing a 19-20 year old kid who is part of the team (and has been intregal to the team) should re-examine their priorities.
I'm not going to try to debate you about whether I'm classy or not, no point.

I am curious about the "pretty nasty stuff" I've said about Rovig. I'd like you to back that claim up, please.



bobcat99
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
Posts: 3695
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:11 am

Re: Quarterback

Post by bobcat99 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:37 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:59 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:40 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:30 pm
bobcatbob wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:05 pm
I was very happy with this season. I thought Rovig improved tremendously. He did a solid job. Now it is on to next year. I hope his improvement continues into Spring ball. However, his lack of quickness and speed is a negative. Also, he throws a lot off his back foot which is not good. He can work on that but the quickness and speed is not going to change. I think having a dual threat that can pass and run is much more effective. Hopefully McKay is the guy. Anxious to see how Tommy Mellot does. He appears to be a Lulay type. The kid is a leader. Will be good to see more competition at that position next year.
Mellott’s best comparison is Johnny Manziel style and skills-wise. I believe that’s why he wears #2.
I thought it was because he's "the ******", as the kids say.






Apparently that got filtered, but you can figure it out lol.
Nah, that doesn’t fit his style.
Just a joke, Thomas.



Cataholic
Member # Retired
Posts: 2315
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:09 pm

Re: Quarterback

Post by Cataholic » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:47 am

bobcat99 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:36 am
Cataholic wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:37 am
grizzh8r wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:29 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:37 pm
VimSince03 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:19 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:57 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:47 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:36 am
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:48 am
technoCat wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:42 pm


I am looking at it logically. Outside of the unicorns like Lance and Murray, almost every mobile qb I've seen gets hurt over the course of a year. IF Rovig is the better passer with the better grasp of the offense, it makes sense to limit the number of touches/hits McKay would take and given the fact that our offense has worked quite well with multiple qbs this last year and Miller has experience calling plays for both it might work.
Oh?

Jalen Hurts got hurt? Lulay got hurt? Trevor Lawrence got hurt? Lamar Jackson? Don't make me list all of the friggin mobile QB's in college football, man. Justin Fields. Even Joe Burrows is pretty mobile.

Look, football is a contact sport. Guys are going to get hurt, whether they're a mobile QB or a pocket QB. One of the worst injuries I've seen from a QB was in the pocket (Joe Theisman).

There is a reason basically nobody runs multiple QB's. It's inefficient. It's easier to scout and prepare for. The team doesn't know who "the guy" is. We ran multiple QB's out of necessity, not because they wanted to.

The thing with Rovig, is that to be a good pocket passer, you have to hit certain throws. Rovig threw about 4 passes the entire year. WR screen/bubble, hitch by the sideline, mesh (slant/crosser), and a go route. Basically nothing in the middle of the field. Nothing up the seam. And it's not just the offense, the guys are there, but the ball never goes there. You can mitigate these issues if you're a running threat, but he isn't. The offense is just much more dangerous with one guy, who can be a passing and running threat. Even if McKay is a little bit less of a passing threat, overall, he's still more dangerous if he can run. Running a 2-3 QB system is dumb.
It would seem that multiple QB’s would be harder for an opponent to prepare for. I recall media and others saying how hard it was to prepare for MSU this year because of the different looks with each option at QB: Rovig, Jonsen, Kassis, Ifanse and Andersen.

For the past four years, many have screamed for a true passing QB. Now you want to insert a different QB because he is a better runner than Rovig? Your dislike of Rovig has you making any argument to justify unseating him at QB. Here is a novel idea: Why don’t we celebrate the great season for now and wait until at least spring practice before anointing a new starter.
Was it harder to prepare for? Maybe substitution/package wise. Maybe just in terms of a lot to look for. Tendency wise? No, I don't think it was that difficult in comparison to how difficult it could be.

When Jonsen lined up, I would bet 90% of the time he kept it. So that's an easy tendency. You have to read the dive back, but again, 9/10 times Jonsen kept it. That's why it wasn't as effective later in the season. Same with the others, except that Kassis was occasionally a threat to pass. Rovig, would either hand off or pass. He wasn't a threat to run. And even when he did run, it didn't scare anybody. Now imagine that you have a QB who can do a little of it all. Threat to pass, threat to run. Not as good at running as say, Jonsen, or Andersen, obviously. Probably as good at passing as Rovig, but I'll hedge it and say he's a little worse. What do you think is more difficult to prepare for? The guy who stays in all the time, and can perform all of those duties? Or the multiple substitutions, where they might be better, but the defense knows what they're doing. The beauty of the first option is the illusion of difficulty. It's all different options, out of the same package.

And fwiw, yes, I argued we needed to be better at passing than when we had Andersen at QB. It was too one sided of an attack. And Rovig was a better passer! And we got further! But there is still a lot of room for improvement. I want a true dual threat QB because it is damn hard to defend. Having a QB who is only a threat in one facet of the offense is a liability, unless they're Peyton Manning.

Fwiw, I don't have a dislike of Rovig. I just don't think he's the starting QB that gets us to a championship. Sorry for wanting the best. It doesn't mean I'm not thrilled with this season, I am. But I can still be happy with the season, and want more. I can still be happy with this season, and discuss the next. If you'd like to write a guideline on how to be a proper fan, be my guest. I'd love to read it.

Ta, ta, for now, love.
So you want a quarterback that can run better than Rovig, but maybe not quite throw it as well... not a true drop back passer unless he is all pro caliber. That sounds like Chris Murray.. Did you complain about Murray? I don’t have the will to look back, but I am guessing that you even complained about Prukop... Of course we all want Lamar Jackson, but my guess is that you would still find something to complain about.

I am not sure about being a proper fan, but given that this was the most successful season in about 35 years, how many of your posts in the past two weeks have been positive? Maybe a better question (and probably why I don’t care for you), how many of your posts have been abrasive or condescending?
99's posts are relatively honest and bring up good discussion points which most want to participate in. I disagree with him as much as I agree on other points. Instead of being this way back to him, ask him some questions like "what type of offense best suits our personnel if we stick with Tucker" or "if we get a dual threat QB, what do we need to add/change" and give your opinions. Its a discussion board. 99 wants more out of the QB position and listed his reasons why. You disagree with those reasons. That's all it has to be Cataholic. YOU are the one who makes it more. The guy has no ill will towards anyone. Call him out if you must if you believe he is throwing too much criticism at college football players but at least he gives reasons why instead of nonsense narrative BS we hear from other posters on this board.
Vim, I have a tremendous amount of respect for your opinion and how you carry yourself on the board. With all due respect, I think there are a lot of posters that get shouted down by a select few like 99. His approach is condescending and quite frankly, he is a dick half the time. If he acted half as professionally as you do, you would probably see more participation from a larger number of people. Just my two cents... to quote 99, “ta, ta, for now my love”. Such a classy guy.
Has nothing to do with being "classy". That's a straw man. It's all about the difference in personality. He's blunt, a realist, as subtle as a 10 lb Sledge hammer, isn't afraid to hurt anyone's feelings with the truth, knows that just because a player is a starter for the Bobcats doesn't immediately make him the best player at that position in the big sky, and is extremely sarcastic. His personality is a direct clash with yours.

Oh and for the record, I don't know him from Adam, I just happen to share personality traits with him. So yes, I do find myself agreeing with what he has to say much of the time, and often shake my head at some of what you have to say. And that's okay, this world would be a very boring place if we all had the exact same viewpoint.

As far as the QB discussion goes, we all know - by his own admission! - that Choate hasn't recruited and/or developed "that guy" as yet at QB. Someone that is an all conference type performer (so 1st thru 3rd teamer or even HM). Can Rovig be this guy? Maybe, maybe not. I'd be happy for him if he did, as would almost all Bobcat fans.

But you know Choates job is to recruit over every player on his roster and if he brings in a more talented kid than Rovig, that's how the cookie crumbles. Gonna be an interesting spring and fall camp. Can't wait!
I appreciate the candid post. And I agree with a lot of it. I don’t agree with your perception on being “classy” as a straw man argument. It would seem that some level of civility would make the board a better place. I find is strange that when a guy is being an ass and is called out for it, that other posters would say “oh it is just the way he is”? Does that make it okay? It boggles my mind, but maybe that is the way anonymous Internet forums are meant to be.

In regard to the QB discussion, I have zero problem with Choate looking for a better QB. I also expect him to be doing the same for every other position. None of my posts above say that Rovig should be the starter moving forward. That is in direct contrast to 99 saying some pretty nasty stuff about Rovig over the season. That is not cool. Don’t call me the PC police. Anybody who is okay with trashing a 19-20 year old kid who is part of the team (and has been intregal to the team) should re-examine their priorities.
I'm not going to try to debate you about whether I'm classy or not, no point.

I am curious about the "pretty nasty stuff" I've said about Rovig. I'd like you to back that claim up, please.
Here is one of your posts from October 26:

I don't want to overreact, but I have never seen a QB make as many stupid decisions as Rovig does.

I've seen enough. He isn't good. He isn't mentally strong enough. Play Andersen, play Bauman, play anybody else but Rovig.

We're wasting a good team here because we don't have a QB.



User avatar
VimSince03
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 7382
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:43 pm

Re: Quarterback

Post by VimSince03 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:02 am

iaafan wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:39 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:30 pm
bobcatbob wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:05 pm
I was very happy with this season. I thought Rovig improved tremendously. He did a solid job. Now it is on to next year. I hope his improvement continues into Spring ball. However, his lack of quickness and speed is a negative. Also, he throws a lot off his back foot which is not good. He can work on that but the quickness and speed is not going to change. I think having a dual threat that can pass and run is much more effective. Hopefully McKay is the guy. Anxious to see how Tommy Mellot does. He appears to be a Lulay type. The kid is a leader. Will be good to see more competition at that position next year.
Mellott’s best comparison is Johnny Manziel style and skills-wise. I believe that’s why he wears #2.
This x 1,000,000!
There’s almost no way McKay is going to beat out Rovig. And Rovig won’t hold off Mellott for long.

McKay is not a good passer, unless he’s vastly improved since high school. His career high school numbers: 442-881-44, 5,932 yards, 58 TDs 50.2%; 424-1,909-24 4.5 rushing over 3 seasons as a starter. If you drop his sophomore numbers: 284-522-21, 3,672, 37 TDs, 54%, 128.8 passer rating; 339-1,786-20 5.3 ypc.

Compare this to Mellott:
Career: 558-967-23, 69, 7,089, 57.7%; 424-2,499-31, 5.9 ypc. Drop sophomore year: 385-663-11, 5,096, 49, 58%, 143.7; 320-2,098-27, 6.6 ypc.
I love his leadership and innate ability to make plays. Tommy improved a bunch his senior season but he still has a ways to go in several areas of playing QB at a FCS program based off the tape I've seen. Let the kid develop and grow before we throw him to the wolves. You have two junior QBs who can lead a FCS offense and possibly a 3rd in Bauman (still thinking its inevitable he will transfer). How about we see if Tommy can beat out Blake Thelen and read a #1 defense before we start talking about Rovig or McKay.


"There's two times of year for me: Football season, and waiting for football season."

ilovethecats
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 4245
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: Quarterback

Post by ilovethecats » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:17 am

iaafan wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:39 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:30 pm
bobcatbob wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:05 pm
I was very happy with this season. I thought Rovig improved tremendously. He did a solid job. Now it is on to next year. I hope his improvement continues into Spring ball. However, his lack of quickness and speed is a negative. Also, he throws a lot off his back foot which is not good. He can work on that but the quickness and speed is not going to change. I think having a dual threat that can pass and run is much more effective. Hopefully McKay is the guy. Anxious to see how Tommy Mellot does. He appears to be a Lulay type. The kid is a leader. Will be good to see more competition at that position next year.
Mellott’s best comparison is Johnny Manziel style and skills-wise. I believe that’s why he wears #2.
This x 1,000,000!
There’s almost no way McKay is going to beat out Rovig. And Rovig won’t hold off Mellott for long.

McKay is not a good passer, unless he’s vastly improved since high school. His career high school numbers: 442-881-44, 5,932 yards, 58 TDs 50.2%; 424-1,909-24 4.5 rushing over 3 seasons as a starter. If you drop his sophomore numbers: 284-522-21, 3,672, 37 TDs, 54%, 128.8 passer rating; 339-1,786-20 5.3 ypc.

Compare this to Mellott:
Career: 558-967-23, 69, 7,089, 57.7%; 424-2,499-31, 5.9 ypc. Drop sophomore year: 385-663-11, 5,096, 49, 58%, 143.7; 320-2,098-27, 6.6 ypc.
I can't directly comment on the validity of this comparison as I don't know either kid. Seen Mellott play once and never seen McKay. That said, I know that this staff is VERY high on McKay, and they feel like he can be a complete game changer for this offense. Obviously there will be a competition, but you don't have these feelings about an ACC transfer if there is almost no way he can beat out our current guy.

By no means do I mean to take anything away from Mellott here. Montana kids and small town guys have done just fine here. But I don't think you can make an apples to apples comparison of stats from a 2A school in Montana to those of a 4A school in North Carolina. This isn't to suggest that anyone from 4A is automatically better than someone from 2A. But I don't think there is any question the competition McKay faced was greater than that of which Mellott faced. And yet he still accounted for almost 100 touchdowns in his career before moving on to the ACC conference.

I guess my main point is it seems WAY too early to claim there is no way this kid will beat out Rovig and if he does will lose his job to Mellott soon after. I'm excited about both of these kids and our entire class. But we brought McKay in for one reason; because Choate and this staff think he's a guy to take us to the next level.



User avatar
VimSince03
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 7382
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:43 pm

Re: Quarterback

Post by VimSince03 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:21 am

ilovethecats wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:17 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:39 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:30 pm
bobcatbob wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:05 pm
I was very happy with this season. I thought Rovig improved tremendously. He did a solid job. Now it is on to next year. I hope his improvement continues into Spring ball. However, his lack of quickness and speed is a negative. Also, he throws a lot off his back foot which is not good. He can work on that but the quickness and speed is not going to change. I think having a dual threat that can pass and run is much more effective. Hopefully McKay is the guy. Anxious to see how Tommy Mellot does. He appears to be a Lulay type. The kid is a leader. Will be good to see more competition at that position next year.
Mellott’s best comparison is Johnny Manziel style and skills-wise. I believe that’s why he wears #2.
This x 1,000,000!
There’s almost no way McKay is going to beat out Rovig. And Rovig won’t hold off Mellott for long.

McKay is not a good passer, unless he’s vastly improved since high school. His career high school numbers: 442-881-44, 5,932 yards, 58 TDs 50.2%; 424-1,909-24 4.5 rushing over 3 seasons as a starter. If you drop his sophomore numbers: 284-522-21, 3,672, 37 TDs, 54%, 128.8 passer rating; 339-1,786-20 5.3 ypc.

Compare this to Mellott:
Career: 558-967-23, 69, 7,089, 57.7%; 424-2,499-31, 5.9 ypc. Drop sophomore year: 385-663-11, 5,096, 49, 58%, 143.7; 320-2,098-27, 6.6 ypc.
I can't directly comment on the validity of this comparison as I don't know either kid. Seen Mellott play once and never seen McKay. That said, I know that this staff is VERY high on McKay, and they feel like he can be a complete game changer for this offense. Obviously there will be a competition, but you don't have these feelings about an ACC transfer if there is almost no way he can beat out our current guy.

By no means do I mean to take anything away from Mellott here. Montana kids and small town guys have done just fine here. But I don't think you can make an apples to apples comparison of stats from a 2A school in Montana to those of a 4A school in North Carolina. This isn't to suggest that anyone from 4A is automatically better than someone from 2A. But I don't think there is any question the competition McKay faced was greater than that of which Mellott faced. And yet he still accounted for almost 100 touchdowns in his career before moving on to the ACC conference.

I guess my main point is it seems WAY too early to claim there is no way this kid will beat out Rovig and if he does will lose his job to Mellott soon after. I'm excited about both of these kids and our entire class. But we brought McKay in for one reason; because Choate and this staff think he's a guy to take us to the next level.
And again...the staff is high on Blake Thelen as well. Thelen vs. Mellott is a good early competition to watch next fall.


"There's two times of year for me: Football season, and waiting for football season."

User avatar
Hawks86
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 9187
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:27 pm
Location: MT

Re: Quarterback

Post by Hawks86 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:25 am

I think it all boils down to which one has the best off-season QB coach.


"I'm a Bobcat forever its in my soul..."

Image

User avatar
BigBruceBaker
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
Posts: 3379
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Sidney

Re: Quarterback

Post by BigBruceBaker » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:36 am

Hawks86 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:25 am
I think it all boils down to which one has the best off-season QB coach.
I was going to say the same thing. All of these kids should be trying to get into the QB coach camps down south, it really does help.

Edit to add:

Is there any money available for these kids to better themselves? QBC money or anything else? Or is it just on their own dime?
Last edited by BigBruceBaker on Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.


I love the Bobcats and the Miami Hurricanes an unhealthy level

bobcat99
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
Posts: 3695
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:11 am

Re: Quarterback

Post by bobcat99 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:39 am

Cataholic wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:47 am
bobcat99 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:36 am
Cataholic wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:37 am
grizzh8r wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:29 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:37 pm
VimSince03 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:19 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:57 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:47 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:36 am
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:48 am

Oh?

Jalen Hurts got hurt? Lulay got hurt? Trevor Lawrence got hurt? Lamar Jackson? Don't make me list all of the friggin mobile QB's in college football, man. Justin Fields. Even Joe Burrows is pretty mobile.

Look, football is a contact sport. Guys are going to get hurt, whether they're a mobile QB or a pocket QB. One of the worst injuries I've seen from a QB was in the pocket (Joe Theisman).

There is a reason basically nobody runs multiple QB's. It's inefficient. It's easier to scout and prepare for. The team doesn't know who "the guy" is. We ran multiple QB's out of necessity, not because they wanted to.

The thing with Rovig, is that to be a good pocket passer, you have to hit certain throws. Rovig threw about 4 passes the entire year. WR screen/bubble, hitch by the sideline, mesh (slant/crosser), and a go route. Basically nothing in the middle of the field. Nothing up the seam. And it's not just the offense, the guys are there, but the ball never goes there. You can mitigate these issues if you're a running threat, but he isn't. The offense is just much more dangerous with one guy, who can be a passing and running threat. Even if McKay is a little bit less of a passing threat, overall, he's still more dangerous if he can run. Running a 2-3 QB system is dumb.
It would seem that multiple QB’s would be harder for an opponent to prepare for. I recall media and others saying how hard it was to prepare for MSU this year because of the different looks with each option at QB: Rovig, Jonsen, Kassis, Ifanse and Andersen.

For the past four years, many have screamed for a true passing QB. Now you want to insert a different QB because he is a better runner than Rovig? Your dislike of Rovig has you making any argument to justify unseating him at QB. Here is a novel idea: Why don’t we celebrate the great season for now and wait until at least spring practice before anointing a new starter.
Was it harder to prepare for? Maybe substitution/package wise. Maybe just in terms of a lot to look for. Tendency wise? No, I don't think it was that difficult in comparison to how difficult it could be.

When Jonsen lined up, I would bet 90% of the time he kept it. So that's an easy tendency. You have to read the dive back, but again, 9/10 times Jonsen kept it. That's why it wasn't as effective later in the season. Same with the others, except that Kassis was occasionally a threat to pass. Rovig, would either hand off or pass. He wasn't a threat to run. And even when he did run, it didn't scare anybody. Now imagine that you have a QB who can do a little of it all. Threat to pass, threat to run. Not as good at running as say, Jonsen, or Andersen, obviously. Probably as good at passing as Rovig, but I'll hedge it and say he's a little worse. What do you think is more difficult to prepare for? The guy who stays in all the time, and can perform all of those duties? Or the multiple substitutions, where they might be better, but the defense knows what they're doing. The beauty of the first option is the illusion of difficulty. It's all different options, out of the same package.

And fwiw, yes, I argued we needed to be better at passing than when we had Andersen at QB. It was too one sided of an attack. And Rovig was a better passer! And we got further! But there is still a lot of room for improvement. I want a true dual threat QB because it is damn hard to defend. Having a QB who is only a threat in one facet of the offense is a liability, unless they're Peyton Manning.

Fwiw, I don't have a dislike of Rovig. I just don't think he's the starting QB that gets us to a championship. Sorry for wanting the best. It doesn't mean I'm not thrilled with this season, I am. But I can still be happy with the season, and want more. I can still be happy with this season, and discuss the next. If you'd like to write a guideline on how to be a proper fan, be my guest. I'd love to read it.

Ta, ta, for now, love.
So you want a quarterback that can run better than Rovig, but maybe not quite throw it as well... not a true drop back passer unless he is all pro caliber. That sounds like Chris Murray.. Did you complain about Murray? I don’t have the will to look back, but I am guessing that you even complained about Prukop... Of course we all want Lamar Jackson, but my guess is that you would still find something to complain about.

I am not sure about being a proper fan, but given that this was the most successful season in about 35 years, how many of your posts in the past two weeks have been positive? Maybe a better question (and probably why I don’t care for you), how many of your posts have been abrasive or condescending?
99's posts are relatively honest and bring up good discussion points which most want to participate in. I disagree with him as much as I agree on other points. Instead of being this way back to him, ask him some questions like "what type of offense best suits our personnel if we stick with Tucker" or "if we get a dual threat QB, what do we need to add/change" and give your opinions. Its a discussion board. 99 wants more out of the QB position and listed his reasons why. You disagree with those reasons. That's all it has to be Cataholic. YOU are the one who makes it more. The guy has no ill will towards anyone. Call him out if you must if you believe he is throwing too much criticism at college football players but at least he gives reasons why instead of nonsense narrative BS we hear from other posters on this board.
Vim, I have a tremendous amount of respect for your opinion and how you carry yourself on the board. With all due respect, I think there are a lot of posters that get shouted down by a select few like 99. His approach is condescending and quite frankly, he is a dick half the time. If he acted half as professionally as you do, you would probably see more participation from a larger number of people. Just my two cents... to quote 99, “ta, ta, for now my love”. Such a classy guy.
Has nothing to do with being "classy". That's a straw man. It's all about the difference in personality. He's blunt, a realist, as subtle as a 10 lb Sledge hammer, isn't afraid to hurt anyone's feelings with the truth, knows that just because a player is a starter for the Bobcats doesn't immediately make him the best player at that position in the big sky, and is extremely sarcastic. His personality is a direct clash with yours.

Oh and for the record, I don't know him from Adam, I just happen to share personality traits with him. So yes, I do find myself agreeing with what he has to say much of the time, and often shake my head at some of what you have to say. And that's okay, this world would be a very boring place if we all had the exact same viewpoint.

As far as the QB discussion goes, we all know - by his own admission! - that Choate hasn't recruited and/or developed "that guy" as yet at QB. Someone that is an all conference type performer (so 1st thru 3rd teamer or even HM). Can Rovig be this guy? Maybe, maybe not. I'd be happy for him if he did, as would almost all Bobcat fans.

But you know Choates job is to recruit over every player on his roster and if he brings in a more talented kid than Rovig, that's how the cookie crumbles. Gonna be an interesting spring and fall camp. Can't wait!
I appreciate the candid post. And I agree with a lot of it. I don’t agree with your perception on being “classy” as a straw man argument. It would seem that some level of civility would make the board a better place. I find is strange that when a guy is being an ass and is called out for it, that other posters would say “oh it is just the way he is”? Does that make it okay? It boggles my mind, but maybe that is the way anonymous Internet forums are meant to be.

In regard to the QB discussion, I have zero problem with Choate looking for a better QB. I also expect him to be doing the same for every other position. None of my posts above say that Rovig should be the starter moving forward. That is in direct contrast to 99 saying some pretty nasty stuff about Rovig over the season. That is not cool. Don’t call me the PC police. Anybody who is okay with trashing a 19-20 year old kid who is part of the team (and has been intregal to the team) should re-examine their priorities.
I'm not going to try to debate you about whether I'm classy or not, no point.

I am curious about the "pretty nasty stuff" I've said about Rovig. I'd like you to back that claim up, please.
Here is one of your posts from October 26:

I don't want to overreact, but I have never seen a QB make as many stupid decisions as Rovig does.

I've seen enough. He isn't good. He isn't mentally strong enough. Play Andersen, play Bauman, play anybody else but Rovig.

We're wasting a good team here because we don't have a QB.
Ahhhh. Hahaha okay that's fair. This is why I always say to never post in the game thread.

I'll say this. At the time, nothing I said was wrong. Harsh, but not wrong. That was the North Dakota game, and he played awful. Dumb plays compounded by dumb plays. He obviously did start to play better following this game, but man...awful game.



bobcat99
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
Posts: 3695
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:11 am

Re: Quarterback

Post by bobcat99 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:39 am

Still don't think any of that is "pretty nasty". Harsh, but not nasty.



User avatar
BigBruceBaker
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
Posts: 3379
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Sidney

Re: Quarterback

Post by BigBruceBaker » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:40 am

Cataholic wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:47 am
bobcat99 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:36 am
Cataholic wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:37 am
grizzh8r wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:29 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:37 pm
VimSince03 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:19 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:57 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:47 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:36 am
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:48 am

Oh?

Jalen Hurts got hurt? Lulay got hurt? Trevor Lawrence got hurt? Lamar Jackson? Don't make me list all of the friggin mobile QB's in college football, man. Justin Fields. Even Joe Burrows is pretty mobile.

Look, football is a contact sport. Guys are going to get hurt, whether they're a mobile QB or a pocket QB. One of the worst injuries I've seen from a QB was in the pocket (Joe Theisman).

There is a reason basically nobody runs multiple QB's. It's inefficient. It's easier to scout and prepare for. The team doesn't know who "the guy" is. We ran multiple QB's out of necessity, not because they wanted to.

The thing with Rovig, is that to be a good pocket passer, you have to hit certain throws. Rovig threw about 4 passes the entire year. WR screen/bubble, hitch by the sideline, mesh (slant/crosser), and a go route. Basically nothing in the middle of the field. Nothing up the seam. And it's not just the offense, the guys are there, but the ball never goes there. You can mitigate these issues if you're a running threat, but he isn't. The offense is just much more dangerous with one guy, who can be a passing and running threat. Even if McKay is a little bit less of a passing threat, overall, he's still more dangerous if he can run. Running a 2-3 QB system is dumb.
It would seem that multiple QB’s would be harder for an opponent to prepare for. I recall media and others saying how hard it was to prepare for MSU this year because of the different looks with each option at QB: Rovig, Jonsen, Kassis, Ifanse and Andersen.

For the past four years, many have screamed for a true passing QB. Now you want to insert a different QB because he is a better runner than Rovig? Your dislike of Rovig has you making any argument to justify unseating him at QB. Here is a novel idea: Why don’t we celebrate the great season for now and wait until at least spring practice before anointing a new starter.
Was it harder to prepare for? Maybe substitution/package wise. Maybe just in terms of a lot to look for. Tendency wise? No, I don't think it was that difficult in comparison to how difficult it could be.

When Jonsen lined up, I would bet 90% of the time he kept it. So that's an easy tendency. You have to read the dive back, but again, 9/10 times Jonsen kept it. That's why it wasn't as effective later in the season. Same with the others, except that Kassis was occasionally a threat to pass. Rovig, would either hand off or pass. He wasn't a threat to run. And even when he did run, it didn't scare anybody. Now imagine that you have a QB who can do a little of it all. Threat to pass, threat to run. Not as good at running as say, Jonsen, or Andersen, obviously. Probably as good at passing as Rovig, but I'll hedge it and say he's a little worse. What do you think is more difficult to prepare for? The guy who stays in all the time, and can perform all of those duties? Or the multiple substitutions, where they might be better, but the defense knows what they're doing. The beauty of the first option is the illusion of difficulty. It's all different options, out of the same package.

And fwiw, yes, I argued we needed to be better at passing than when we had Andersen at QB. It was too one sided of an attack. And Rovig was a better passer! And we got further! But there is still a lot of room for improvement. I want a true dual threat QB because it is damn hard to defend. Having a QB who is only a threat in one facet of the offense is a liability, unless they're Peyton Manning.

Fwiw, I don't have a dislike of Rovig. I just don't think he's the starting QB that gets us to a championship. Sorry for wanting the best. It doesn't mean I'm not thrilled with this season, I am. But I can still be happy with the season, and want more. I can still be happy with this season, and discuss the next. If you'd like to write a guideline on how to be a proper fan, be my guest. I'd love to read it.

Ta, ta, for now, love.
So you want a quarterback that can run better than Rovig, but maybe not quite throw it as well... not a true drop back passer unless he is all pro caliber. That sounds like Chris Murray.. Did you complain about Murray? I don’t have the will to look back, but I am guessing that you even complained about Prukop... Of course we all want Lamar Jackson, but my guess is that you would still find something to complain about.

I am not sure about being a proper fan, but given that this was the most successful season in about 35 years, how many of your posts in the past two weeks have been positive? Maybe a better question (and probably why I don’t care for you), how many of your posts have been abrasive or condescending?
99's posts are relatively honest and bring up good discussion points which most want to participate in. I disagree with him as much as I agree on other points. Instead of being this way back to him, ask him some questions like "what type of offense best suits our personnel if we stick with Tucker" or "if we get a dual threat QB, what do we need to add/change" and give your opinions. Its a discussion board. 99 wants more out of the QB position and listed his reasons why. You disagree with those reasons. That's all it has to be Cataholic. YOU are the one who makes it more. The guy has no ill will towards anyone. Call him out if you must if you believe he is throwing too much criticism at college football players but at least he gives reasons why instead of nonsense narrative BS we hear from other posters on this board.
Vim, I have a tremendous amount of respect for your opinion and how you carry yourself on the board. With all due respect, I think there are a lot of posters that get shouted down by a select few like 99. His approach is condescending and quite frankly, he is a dick half the time. If he acted half as professionally as you do, you would probably see more participation from a larger number of people. Just my two cents... to quote 99, “ta, ta, for now my love”. Such a classy guy.
Has nothing to do with being "classy". That's a straw man. It's all about the difference in personality. He's blunt, a realist, as subtle as a 10 lb Sledge hammer, isn't afraid to hurt anyone's feelings with the truth, knows that just because a player is a starter for the Bobcats doesn't immediately make him the best player at that position in the big sky, and is extremely sarcastic. His personality is a direct clash with yours.

Oh and for the record, I don't know him from Adam, I just happen to share personality traits with him. So yes, I do find myself agreeing with what he has to say much of the time, and often shake my head at some of what you have to say. And that's okay, this world would be a very boring place if we all had the exact same viewpoint.

As far as the QB discussion goes, we all know - by his own admission! - that Choate hasn't recruited and/or developed "that guy" as yet at QB. Someone that is an all conference type performer (so 1st thru 3rd teamer or even HM). Can Rovig be this guy? Maybe, maybe not. I'd be happy for him if he did, as would almost all Bobcat fans.

But you know Choates job is to recruit over every player on his roster and if he brings in a more talented kid than Rovig, that's how the cookie crumbles. Gonna be an interesting spring and fall camp. Can't wait!
I appreciate the candid post. And I agree with a lot of it. I don’t agree with your perception on being “classy” as a straw man argument. It would seem that some level of civility would make the board a better place. I find is strange that when a guy is being an ass and is called out for it, that other posters would say “oh it is just the way he is”? Does that make it okay? It boggles my mind, but maybe that is the way anonymous Internet forums are meant to be.

In regard to the QB discussion, I have zero problem with Choate looking for a better QB. I also expect him to be doing the same for every other position. None of my posts above say that Rovig should be the starter moving forward. That is in direct contrast to 99 saying some pretty nasty stuff about Rovig over the season. That is not cool. Don’t call me the PC police. Anybody who is okay with trashing a 19-20 year old kid who is part of the team (and has been intregal to the team) should re-examine their priorities.
I'm not going to try to debate you about whether I'm classy or not, no point.

I am curious about the "pretty nasty stuff" I've said about Rovig. I'd like you to back that claim up, please.
Here is one of your posts from October 26:

I don't want to overreact, but I have never seen a QB make as many stupid decisions as Rovig does.

I've seen enough. He isn't good. He isn't mentally strong enough. Play Andersen, play Bauman, play anybody else but Rovig.

We're wasting a good team here because we don't have a QB.
AWESOME! Another thread hijacked by the Cataholic/99 debate on their dislike for each other.

Can you guys put each other on ignore or just take it to PM? Rarely does this pissing match involve anything of substance after the first 2 quotes. I'm not calling either of you out singly, rather together, just ignore each other.


I love the Bobcats and the Miami Hurricanes an unhealthy level

User avatar
Bobcatsinmso
BobcatNation Team Captain
Posts: 682
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:43 pm
Location: Missoula MT, Bozeman MT

Re: Quarterback

Post by Bobcatsinmso » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:49 am

:deadhorse: I agree, good post Bruce.


Go Cats Go! FTG www.eatsh!tgrizzlies.com

FTG247365
Honorable Mention All-BobcatNation
Posts: 810
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:58 pm

Re: Quarterback

Post by FTG247365 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:17 am

Bobcatsinmso wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:49 am
:deadhorse: I agree, good post Bruce.
Too funny, thank you!



Post Reply