Your post is an amazing way to start the offseason. I love how the tone changes when we all have to face the disappointment of months without Cat football. We could possibly carry these debates throughout the next few months and pass the time if you don’t become a scared KittieKop and run off or put me on ignore as you have in the past.KittieKop wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:30 amYou're way to easy to trigger there sportutucats wrote: ↑Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:59 pmNah, we can talk about those 3 straight shared conference championships. Can we also acknowledge the ass kicking we took against most every good program we faced? How about that #1 ranking that turned into getting dominated at home by the griz, did that happen? How about having McGhee and never getting to the semis?KittieKop wrote: ↑Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:53 pmShhhhh. We don't talk about those dark days of the early 2010's. Such a waste, those three straight conference championships.onceacat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:35 amThe Cats lost a total of 8 conference games over 5 seasons earlier this decade. If we keep the conference losses to between 1 and 2, I’d say we are back to swimming in the waters we are accustomed to.utucats wrote: ↑Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:34 amI don’t know about rebuilt? Unless you are taking from the 80s. We were swimming in waters that this program hasn’t been in for decades.onceacat wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:04 pmIf Choate has (re)built what most posters think he has (I.e. a Top 4 program has hat is ready o take the next step to challenge NDSU and JMU) that shouldn’t be much of a problem.BelgradeBobcat wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:47 pmWeber, EWU, and montana all on the road next season. Gonna be tough to repeat what we did in 2019.
If he hasn’t rebuilt hat, then yes, those road games are going to be really tough.
It should be a good measuring stick.
Choate has done in 4 years what no staff since the 80s has accomplished. I know that admitting being wrong isn’t fun but when reality is staring you straight in the face.
Actually, maybe I’m wrong. I’m just a random Cats fan posting on social media. I wonder what the experts think? Simple test to prove me wrong. List a former Cats Head Coach and his current coaching title to see what those in the know think of our former coaches. Surely a back to back to back conference championship level coach is running a program somewhere.
Why is it the only way you're capable of celebrating the success that Choate and his staff are having - particularly this year- is by tearing down and denigrating past staffs and coaches? All. The. Time.
We are where we are today because of the steps taken FROM the early 1990's (sorry if you can't remember that far back). In part, each staff has had success because of things the prior left behind. Hysell, Kramer, Ash, Choate. Kramer doesn't have success if Cliff doesn't start turning the ship. Ash doesn't have success without the recruiting and QBC started under Kramer. Choate wouldn't be here or have the success without the stadium improvements, attendance explosion and turn around of the program in the community under Ash. And Choate is forging his own path here and will affect the next coach, whoever that is.
Your hatred is an ugly look. As is your almost creepy man-crush on Choate. You're unnaturally defensive about him, it's a little weird actually.
Tell me, if Choate "gets his ass kicked" the next, say, three years in the playoffs, or misses the playoffs for two years, is that when you turn on him, or what's your trigger for running him down? You obviously have a line in the sand. What if we go to the quarters or semis the next two seasons and, for the fourth straight year, get our asses handed to us by NDSU, you going to be on here complaining about not being able to "take the next step" and campaigning to throw Choate out of town? What's your standard for success, since most of the 2010's was an abject failure in your eyes?
I’d counter your point on my man crush on Choate(I’ll admit it is creepy but not as bad as the one I have on TA) that you’ve had a certainly delusional man crush on Ash. You fail to acknowledge that he couldn’t win big games, never took us as far a Choate just did in year 4, and oversaw the complete destruction of what was a dominant defense(EWU=7 tds in first 7 possessions).
As far as what it will take for me to turn on Choate, I’d say same as what it took for me to turn on Ash. I supported Ash when our teams were improving and we were seeing progress within the program. When we started to slip I was patient and acknowledged that sometimes you have difficult years and expected him to right the ship. He did not. I have a friend that was against Ash much sooner than I was and I remember arguing with him in support of Ash. Eventually though, you have to acknowledge what is staring you straight in the face.
The only real difference between us KK is that I’ve proven that I’m able to admit when I’m wrong and you cling to your flawed logic no matter what the evidence suggests. When and if the day comes that the program is regressing and players are posting on Bobcat Nation that we will never win it all with our coach. When one of the greatest QBs in the history of the program turns on our staff(remember that time I suggested you ask McGhee his opinion on the Choate vs Ash debate, you obviously haven’t done that). When those things happen I’ll be disappointed that Choate has lost the locker room and I’ll begin lobbying for his dismissal.
I doubt this will work but in an attempt to have a meaningful debate on the issue, it would be nice to hear some counterpoint to the ones I’ve made. How about you explain Ash’s record against the Top 25? Or why his players were willing to throw him under the bus after the season? Explain his falling out with McGhee? Or his loyalty to Marshall and his awful defensive gameplans? Or better yet, stick with your time tested method of attacking me for essentially saying TOLD YOU SO. I really don’t mind reading those replies cause they make me laugh.
I replied to onceacat’s post only because I take exception with anyone suggesting that Choate has returned us to a level that anyone in the 90s(I remember them well), 2000s or twenty tens already had us at. EVERY single coach you mentioned, other than Choate, have one thing in common....they never ended the year in the top 4. I’d think it’s fair to acknowledge this staff’s accomplishing something like that.