Unstoppable

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KittieKop
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Re: Unstoppable

Post by KittieKop » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:56 pm

WalkOn79 wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:11 am
rivercat wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:36 pm
NDSU is in the right division. They are a small land grant university in a rural state. They have a lot of similar institutions nearby. They just play football better than everyone else. Like it or not, they should be an FCS team.
Yep. We just need to get better and it will start with the facility upgrade. We also need to provide better financial support. One of their posters said they cover all scholarships plus FCOA with booster club annual giving. About $5.7 Million. That's 3 TIMES what we raise right now with Bobcat Club annual giving.

Oil money, Blah, Blah.........

We just need to do better or we'll never be at that level. We're a bigger, better university in many ways but support for athletics isn't one of those ways, yet!
Some of y'all may not like it, but if we're looking to raise money off ticket sales, then it's time to charge ALL season ticket holders Bobcat Club fees, EZ holders included. I've had sideline seats for over a decade and paid BC dues even when not required, or bought up to a higher level, gave to all the capital projects. If you want to take another step, and some may take offense to this, the "free rides" for some ticket holders needs to end. When only probably half to 60 percent of your season tickets are paying in, it hurts. And being able to pull in 16,000-19,000 fans for a game, but only several hundred ever contribute to fundraising efforts, MSU is missing out on many, many revenue streams here.


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PapaG
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Re: Unstoppable

Post by PapaG » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:10 pm

John K wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:44 pm
grizzh8r wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:59 pm
Hi-Line Bobcat wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:08 pm
They were better in every area of the game. I personally hope the stay in the FCS so we have a benchmark to try to get to. Right now we are nowhere near the category of NDSU, but with how the university is growing and with new facilities, I’m excited to see where MSU can go.
As much as I hate to say it - because I've never been a proponent of if, nor will I ever be and dislike it with every fiber of my being - I really don't see how MSU will ever get to that level without FCOA.

JMU has it, I believe. Go Dukes.
I would love to see a comparison between FCOA schools and non-FCOA schools, in terms of their relative level of success on average. My personal opinion is that it isn't nearly as big of a factor as some on here seem to believe, although I have no empirical evidence to support that claim. I'm not saying it's no factor at all, but I don't buy the assertion that we can't win a NC without it. Among all the many factors that have combined to lead NDSU to this level of dominance, in my opinion that's fairly far down on the list.
FCOA is going to be a major problem for any FCS team other than NDSU. UND will struggle with it as it depletes their football budget as they miss on evaluating some scholarship players who can’t go deuce on the field but get a full education paid for as long as they stick around.


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Re: Unstoppable

Post by orsalak » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:29 pm

bcatfan1 wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:59 pm
That is an incredible FCS team in Fargo. They were bigger, faster and stronger at nearly every position.
Why? Their recruiting classes are not better than MSUs at least in number of multiple star recruits.


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Re: Unstoppable

Post by TomCat88 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:40 pm

PapaG wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:10 pm
John K wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:44 pm
grizzh8r wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:59 pm
Hi-Line Bobcat wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:08 pm
They were better in every area of the game. I personally hope the stay in the FCS so we have a benchmark to try to get to. Right now we are nowhere near the category of NDSU, but with how the university is growing and with new facilities, I’m excited to see where MSU can go.
As much as I hate to say it - because I've never been a proponent of if, nor will I ever be and dislike it with every fiber of my being - I really don't see how MSU will ever get to that level without FCOA.

JMU has it, I believe. Go Dukes.
I would love to see a comparison between FCOA schools and non-FCOA schools, in terms of their relative level of success on average. My personal opinion is that it isn't nearly as big of a factor as some on here seem to believe, although I have no empirical evidence to support that claim. I'm not saying it's no factor at all, but I don't buy the assertion that we can't win a NC without it. Among all the many factors that have combined to lead NDSU to this level of dominance, in my opinion that's fairly far down on the list.
FCOA is going to be a major problem for any FCS team other than NDSU. UND will struggle with it as it depletes their football budget as they miss on evaluating some scholarship players who can’t go deuce on the field but get a full education paid for as long as they stick around.
Yes, there are schools that get FCOA that aren't as good as MSU, but none of those schools are NDSU. It's NDSU that MSU needs to get as good as. NDSU has a great program and the players buy into it and that makes them very good. FCOA makes them even better. MSU has a great program and the players buy into it and that makes them very good. But MSU doesn't have FCOA.


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Re: Unstoppable

Post by bobcat99 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:57 pm

orsalak wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:29 pm
bcatfan1 wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:59 pm
That is an incredible FCS team in Fargo. They were bigger, faster and stronger at nearly every position.
Why? Their recruiting classes are not better than MSUs at least in number of multiple star recruits.
Stars don't matter!



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Re: Unstoppable

Post by onceacat » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:17 pm

bobcat99 wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:57 pm
orsalak wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:29 pm
bcatfan1 wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:59 pm
That is an incredible FCS team in Fargo. They were bigger, faster and stronger at nearly every position.
Why? Their recruiting classes are not better than MSUs at least in number of multiple star recruits.
Stars don't matter!
All top FCS schools recruit the same batch of kids. You can say “stars don’t matter” which has just enough truth to be dangerous, but everyone knows which kids can go power 5, which can go FBS, which can go FCS, and which are FCS ‘stretches’.

The last 3 QBs for he Bison all ended up in the NFL, and Lance will too. Only a handful of FBS offers between them.

The answer is in the program. The Bison take 3 star recruits and turn them into NFL caliber players. It’s all in the development.



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Re: Unstoppable

Post by iaafan » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:53 am

bobcat99 wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:57 pm
orsalak wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:29 pm
bcatfan1 wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:59 pm
That is an incredible FCS team in Fargo. They were bigger, faster and stronger at nearly every position.
Why? Their recruiting classes are not better than MSUs at least in number of multiple star recruits.
Stars don't matter!
While it’s true stars don’t guarantee success and no stars don’t guarantee failure, the star rated players overall fill more starting positions than non-star players.

Star rating is primarily based on offers. If a lot of schools are offering a player that’s a good sign that the player is good. In Montana alone there are players that get offered by every in state school and some out of state FBS schools. When a player gets offered by a team like Colorado State almost everyone goes ga-ga over him. A perfect example is Eiden. He’s got FBS interest and everyone concurs he should and he’s a 247 3-star.



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Re: Unstoppable

Post by orsalak » Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:55 am

onceacat wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:17 pm
bobcat99 wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:57 pm
orsalak wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:29 pm
bcatfan1 wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:59 pm
That is an incredible FCS team in Fargo. They were bigger, faster and stronger at nearly every position.
Why? Their recruiting classes are not better than MSUs at least in number of multiple star recruits.
Stars don't matter!
All top FCS schools recruit the same batch of kids. You can say “stars don’t matter” which has just enough truth to be dangerous, but everyone knows which kids can go power 5, which can go FBS, which can go FCS, and which are FCS ‘stretches’.

The last 3 QBs for he Bison all ended up in the NFL, and Lance will too. Only a handful of FBS offers between them.

The answer is in the program. The Bison take 3 star recruits and turn them into NFL caliber players. It’s all in the development.
I agree that stars are not the end all be all but what else do we have to go on? I also agree that they seem to take a good recruit and turn them into a great player. So the other thread that is trying to figure out what is next for MSU maybe we should be asking ourselves how do they do that? Does NDSU have better coaches? Better training programs? More money? If it isn’t the recruits then what? Because on the field they did look bigger, faster and stronger.


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bobcat99
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Re: Unstoppable

Post by bobcat99 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:00 pm

iaafan wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:53 am
bobcat99 wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:57 pm
orsalak wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:29 pm
bcatfan1 wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:59 pm
That is an incredible FCS team in Fargo. They were bigger, faster and stronger at nearly every position.
Why? Their recruiting classes are not better than MSUs at least in number of multiple star recruits.
Stars don't matter!
While it’s true stars don’t guarantee success and no stars don’t guarantee failure, the star rated players overall fill more starting positions than non-star players.

Star rating is primarily based on offers. If a lot of schools are offering a player that’s a good sign that the player is good. In Montana alone there are players that get offered by every in state school and some out of state FBS schools. When a player gets offered by a team like Colorado State almost everyone goes ga-ga over him. A perfect example is Eiden. He’s got FBS interest and everyone concurs he should and he’s a 247 3-star.
Offer list means more than stars.



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Re: Unstoppable

Post by CelticCat » Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:47 pm

Just the nutrition program alone has paid big dividends for the Cats. You can see what those seemingly little things can do for a program.


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Re: Unstoppable

Post by bobcat99 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:16 pm

CelticCat wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:47 pm
Just the nutrition program alone has paid big dividends for the Cats. You can see what those seemingly little things can do for a program.
I think one could make a very strong argument that S&C, and nutrition, are the most important parts of a football program.



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Re: Unstoppable

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:36 pm

HelenaCat wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:53 pm
A lot of native North Dakotans get pretty good royalties for oil on their farms. I have to guess some of that comes back to NDSU in charitable donations since it is the land grant school.
Exactly. NDSU says very little oil money, but their boosters giving three times as much has oil money written all over it. I have shirttail relations in ND, and they went from well-heeled to absolutely stinking, filthy rich. A gaggle of boosters like that and FCOA is no issue. The oil created many wealthy North Dakota natives who already had ties to the universities. That’s not the case in Montana west of Wibaux.



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Re: Unstoppable

Post by Common Cat » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:20 pm

Just rewatched the game. The second quarter killed us. I take that back, two plays in the second quarter that lasted all but 30 seconds killed us. The third quarter we competed at a high level. If we stop them on the third and 5 where we had Lance scrambling and ultimately converting a 70 td on a broken play, it would have been big momentum for us. We moved the ball in the fourth as well. Lots of positives from this game.


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Re: Unstoppable

Post by John K » Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:18 pm

Yep...when we scored to cut the lead to 29-14, I really felt like we still had a chance of at least making it a competitive game, even if they ultimately pulled out a close win. Letting them off the hook on that play when we came so close to getting the sack, was really a back breaker. Still though, we were much more competitive against them this year, compared to 2018. There's no doubt about that.



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Re: Unstoppable

Post by utucats » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:08 pm

KittieKop wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:56 pm
WalkOn79 wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:11 am
rivercat wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:36 pm
NDSU is in the right division. They are a small land grant university in a rural state. They have a lot of similar institutions nearby. They just play football better than everyone else. Like it or not, they should be an FCS team.
Yep. We just need to get better and it will start with the facility upgrade. We also need to provide better financial support. One of their posters said they cover all scholarships plus FCOA with booster club annual giving. About $5.7 Million. That's 3 TIMES what we raise right now with Bobcat Club annual giving.

Oil money, Blah, Blah.........

We just need to do better or we'll never be at that level. We're a bigger, better university in many ways but support for athletics isn't one of those ways, yet!
Some of y'all may not like it, but if we're looking to raise money off ticket sales, then it's time to charge ALL season ticket holders Bobcat Club fees, EZ holders included. I've had sideline seats for over a decade and paid BC dues even when not required, or bought up to a higher level, gave to all the capital projects. If you want to take another step, and some may take offense to this, the "free rides" for some ticket holders needs to end. When only probably half to 60 percent of your season tickets are paying in, it hurts. And being able to pull in 16,000-19,000 fans for a game, but only several hundred ever contribute to fundraising efforts, MSU is missing out on many, many revenue streams here.
And FINALLY, we agree on something.


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Re: Unstoppable

Post by MSU01 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:38 pm

KittieKop wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:56 pm

Some of y'all may not like it, but if we're looking to raise money off ticket sales, then it's time to charge ALL season ticket holders Bobcat Club fees, EZ holders included. I've had sideline seats for over a decade and paid BC dues even when not required, or bought up to a higher level, gave to all the capital projects. If you want to take another step, and some may take offense to this, the "free rides" for some ticket holders needs to end. When only probably half to 60 percent of your season tickets are paying in, it hurts. And being able to pull in 16,000-19,000 fans for a game, but only several hundred ever contribute to fundraising efforts, MSU is missing out on many, many revenue streams here.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. MSU makes less money on tickets than NDSU because it charges way less across the board than NDSU does, and the discrepancy is far greater in the premium seating areas than for those end zone freeloaders. NDSU charges over $3000 for its most expensive seats - seats which cost $600 this season at MSU including the BC donation. Just 100 of those season tickets sold at each school brings in an extra quarter million dollars in revenue for NDSU. Charging a $25 BC fee for end zone season tickets like NDSU does is a drop in the bucket compared to that, especially when you start to look at thousands of premium tickets instead of this example of 100.

To "solve" a perceived deficiency in ticket revenue by only raising prices on a certain group of fans (shockingly, not your group) when most games do not currently sell out would backfire spectacularly. It would, however, succeed in decreasing attendance by pricing out some of the families who sit in the end zone - families, by the way, who are bringing future MSU students, future MSU alumni, and future Bobcat Club members to those games with their "free ride" tickets you appear to dislike so much.


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KittieKop
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Re: Unstoppable

Post by KittieKop » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:23 am

MSU01 wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:38 pm
KittieKop wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:56 pm

Some of y'all may not like it, but if we're looking to raise money off ticket sales, then it's time to charge ALL season ticket holders Bobcat Club fees, EZ holders included. I've had sideline seats for over a decade and paid BC dues even when not required, or bought up to a higher level, gave to all the capital projects. If you want to take another step, and some may take offense to this, the "free rides" for some ticket holders needs to end. When only probably half to 60 percent of your season tickets are paying in, it hurts. And being able to pull in 16,000-19,000 fans for a game, but only several hundred ever contribute to fundraising efforts, MSU is missing out on many, many revenue streams here.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. MSU makes less money on tickets than NDSU because it charges way less across the board than NDSU does, and the discrepancy is far greater in the premium seating areas than for those end zone freeloaders. NDSU charges over $3000 for its most expensive seats - seats which cost $600 this season at MSU including the BC donation. Just 100 of those season tickets sold at each school brings in an extra quarter million dollars in revenue for NDSU. Charging a $25 BC fee for end zone season tickets like NDSU does is a drop in the bucket compared to that, especially when you start to look at thousands of premium tickets instead of this example of 100.

To "solve" a perceived deficiency in ticket revenue by only raising prices on a certain group of fans (shockingly, not your group) when most games do not currently sell out would backfire spectacularly. It would, however, succeed in decreasing attendance by pricing out some of the families who sit in the end zone - families, by the way, who are bringing future MSU students, future MSU alumni, and future Bobcat Club members to those games with their "free ride" tickets you appear to dislike so much.
Do you consider MSU is starting to price out a lot of other families, the sideline ticket holders, by continuing to raise those prices and BC fees, but leave a huge swath of tickets untouched? Not everyone on the sidelines is in $600/ticket seats.

I assume you're an EZ sitter.....$25/seat/yr is going to price people out of the EZ, but raising the "rich people's " tickets by 500% isn't going to drive any of them away?

I'm not saying just the EZ, I'm saying everyone needs to contribute. Everyone paying BC fees and looking at ticket prices. Many people sitting in $20, $50 or $150/game seats also don't have issues dropping $300/day on tailgating supplies and booze for a game, so a ticket fee ain't going to kill them.

How about building booster fees into ALL tickets, not just the season ticket holders? Instead of a $17 walk up ticket, it's $25.

It's funny the solution is always to soak the rich. How about everyone chipping in? Why is it MSU can only get a few hundred people to contribute to capital programs, when they can sell 16,000 tickets to a football game? And it's not that only 500 people can afford an extra $500/yr in their budgets (I know many people gave significantly more than that, but the point is why only 500 people or so?) A $500/yr commitment for 5 years.....find by 2,000 people (neither are huge numbers). That's $5,000,000. That shouldn't be hard. Neither is 5,000 people paying $25/yr/seat in booster fees.


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ilovethecats
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Re: Unstoppable

Post by ilovethecats » Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:08 pm

MSU01 wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:38 pm

To "solve" a perceived deficiency in ticket revenue by only raising prices on a certain group of fans (shockingly, not your group)
Um....THAT group is already paying “higher” prices. We’ve been paying the fees KK described forever, and they are frequently raised. That seemed to be his entire point. He thinks ALL tickets should include these fees and you seem to think only CERTAIN tickets should have these fees.

I tend to follow KK’s line of thinking. I think fees on ALL season tickets, even small ones, would be a great way to generate funds. Obviously more expensive seats would come with more expensive fees. Less expensive seats, less expensive fees. But ALL season ticket holders can do their share.



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Re: Unstoppable

Post by MSU01 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:05 pm

KittieKop wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:23 am
MSU01 wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:38 pm
KittieKop wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:56 pm

Some of y'all may not like it, but if we're looking to raise money off ticket sales, then it's time to charge ALL season ticket holders Bobcat Club fees, EZ holders included. I've had sideline seats for over a decade and paid BC dues even when not required, or bought up to a higher level, gave to all the capital projects. If you want to take another step, and some may take offense to this, the "free rides" for some ticket holders needs to end. When only probably half to 60 percent of your season tickets are paying in, it hurts. And being able to pull in 16,000-19,000 fans for a game, but only several hundred ever contribute to fundraising efforts, MSU is missing out on many, many revenue streams here.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. MSU makes less money on tickets than NDSU because it charges way less across the board than NDSU does, and the discrepancy is far greater in the premium seating areas than for those end zone freeloaders. NDSU charges over $3000 for its most expensive seats - seats which cost $600 this season at MSU including the BC donation. Just 100 of those season tickets sold at each school brings in an extra quarter million dollars in revenue for NDSU. Charging a $25 BC fee for end zone season tickets like NDSU does is a drop in the bucket compared to that, especially when you start to look at thousands of premium tickets instead of this example of 100.

To "solve" a perceived deficiency in ticket revenue by only raising prices on a certain group of fans (shockingly, not your group) when most games do not currently sell out would backfire spectacularly. It would, however, succeed in decreasing attendance by pricing out some of the families who sit in the end zone - families, by the way, who are bringing future MSU students, future MSU alumni, and future Bobcat Club members to those games with their "free ride" tickets you appear to dislike so much.
Do you consider MSU is starting to price out a lot of other families, the sideline ticket holders, by continuing to raise those prices and BC fees, but leave a huge swath of tickets untouched? Not everyone on the sidelines is in $600/ticket seats.

I assume you're an EZ sitter.....$25/seat/yr is going to price people out of the EZ, but raising the "rich people's " tickets by 500% isn't going to drive any of them away?

I'm not saying just the EZ, I'm saying everyone needs to contribute. Everyone paying BC fees and looking at ticket prices. Many people sitting in $20, $50 or $150/game seats also don't have issues dropping $300/day on tailgating supplies and booze for a game, so a ticket fee ain't going to kill them.

How about building booster fees into ALL tickets, not just the season ticket holders? Instead of a $17 walk up ticket, it's $25.

It's funny the solution is always to soak the rich. How about everyone chipping in? Why is it MSU can only get a few hundred people to contribute to capital programs, when they can sell 16,000 tickets to a football game? And it's not that only 500 people can afford an extra $500/yr in their budgets (I know many people gave significantly more than that, but the point is why only 500 people or so?) A $500/yr commitment for 5 years.....find by 2,000 people (neither are huge numbers). That's $5,000,000. That shouldn't be hard. Neither is 5,000 people paying $25/yr/seat in booster fees.
Raising prices on tickets will always drive some people away, although if there's enough excess demand out there to replace those people with new customers then from MSU's perspective they're still coming out ahead. No, of course I don't believe a 500% increase should happen on anyone. But a lot of this thread seems to be about how we can make ourselves more like NDSU in terms of Bobcat Club revenue and FCOA, so I think it's important to point out the massive gulf that exists now between the two schools.

I'm in Section 106 and have been for many years. I can afford our two seats and am happy to contribute, but there are plenty of folks out there for whom the less expensive end zone seats are their only way to be able to watch MSU football in person. Perhaps some of those folks were priced out of the sideline seats, but it's great that they still have a viable option available to still attend the games.

IMO, we should be encouraging as many people to come to these games as possible (hence why the playoff ticket donations were so incredibly awesome) instead of treating ticket sales as purely a revenue generator for the Bobcat Club. Would a $20 or $25 fee per season ticket be a big deal? No, probably not. But I think MSU knows that they need to be careful and balance the demand for tickets with the supply, and not turn off people who are there to enjoy a Saturday afternoon with the family and have no clue what the Bobcat Club is or does. The people running MSU athletics are smart and I'm sure they've done the math in their ticket pricing to maximize revenues while not harming attendance numbers.


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Re: Unstoppable

Post by tjbison » Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:49 am

Bobcat4Ever wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:36 pm
HelenaCat wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:53 pm
A lot of native North Dakotans get pretty good royalties for oil on their farms. I have to guess some of that comes back to NDSU in charitable donations since it is the land grant school.
Exactly. NDSU says very little oil money, but their boosters giving three times as much has oil money written all over it. I have shirttail relations in ND, and they went from well-heeled to absolutely stinking, filthy rich. A gaggle of boosters like that and FCOA is no issue. The oil created many wealthy North Dakota natives who already had ties to the universities. That’s not the case in Montana west of Wibaux.
Nope, a lions share of the Teamakers funds is do ated from Eastern ND and the MN boosters

The "oil money" is just a talking point for people that dont know and make assumptions. Obviously there are people able to give more because of it but to say it caused this run is laughable considering the class that started this whole run was recruited in 2008 before there was any oil money



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