Unstoppable

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Tojo89
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Re: Unstoppable

Post by Tojo89 » Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:32 pm

One of the things that will hurt the bizon is if Minnesota keeps playing well. they've had a lot of success recruiting Good Minnesota kids. Minnesota has sucked really bad over the last many years. But now they have a good coach and a good team. It could hurt them



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Re: Unstoppable

Post by Hammersmith » Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:47 pm

LTown Cat wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:26 pm
What about Augustana? Will they be FCS? I imagine they’ll recruit MSP.
They may not even go DI. They want to, but they need an invite and many of the Summit schools are trying to find ways to avoid that. We'd love UST to join because they're a larger school in a new major market. OTOH, Augie is a tiny school in a smaller market already covered by two members(SDSU & USD). Just like UST, Augie would also almost certainly go non-scholarship in football if they don't just drop the sport. Realize that Augie only has about 1600 undergraduates and 2000 students total. No, they won't be a problem for NDSU.



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Re: Unstoppable

Post by grizzh8r » Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:59 pm

Hi-Line Bobcat wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:08 pm
They were better in every area of the game. I personally hope the stay in the FCS so we have a benchmark to try to get to. Right now we are nowhere near the category of NDSU, but with how the university is growing and with new facilities, I’m excited to see where MSU can go.
As much as I hate to say it - because I've never been a proponent of if, nor will I ever be and dislike it with every fiber of my being - I really don't see how MSU will ever get to that level without FCOA.

JMU has it, I believe. Go Dukes.


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Re: Unstoppable

Post by Helcat72 » Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:20 pm

Unfortunately it is very expensive to get kids to Montana. If all you have to do to access millions of people is jump in your car and go for an afternoon drive, you have a huge advantage. We hope to get as many Montana players as possible. We have really stepped that up recently. The speed and freak athletic ability we need isn't always in Montana. (TA an exception).

Our coaches have to spend upwards of $500 to $1000 to visit each out of state player. This present staff has used the QBC funds better than both Kramer and Ash. They have developed a very adept process to see the players we need and not waste trips on hopefuls.

Denarius is a workaholic as the coordinator and has kept Texas open for our recruiting. We recruit Washington Oregon and California like before, but Choate has more contacts in the west coast states than Ash did and probably more than Kramer.

We do a lot of recruiting with our camps. We look for kids who want to be Bobcats. A lot of them come back all through highschool. We look for every opportunity to see the most kids with our funding limits and seek to do it more efficiently every year.


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Re: Unstoppable

Post by John K » Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:44 pm

grizzh8r wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:59 pm
Hi-Line Bobcat wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:08 pm
They were better in every area of the game. I personally hope the stay in the FCS so we have a benchmark to try to get to. Right now we are nowhere near the category of NDSU, but with how the university is growing and with new facilities, I’m excited to see where MSU can go.
As much as I hate to say it - because I've never been a proponent of if, nor will I ever be and dislike it with every fiber of my being - I really don't see how MSU will ever get to that level without FCOA.

JMU has it, I believe. Go Dukes.
I would love to see a comparison between FCOA schools and non-FCOA schools, in terms of their relative level of success on average. My personal opinion is that it isn't nearly as big of a factor as some on here seem to believe, although I have no empirical evidence to support that claim. I'm not saying it's no factor at all, but I don't buy the assertion that we can't win a NC without it. Among all the many factors that have combined to lead NDSU to this level of dominance, in my opinion that's fairly far down on the list.



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Re: Unstoppable

Post by utucats » Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:10 am

Just a general comment.

I’m not wild about the idea that they should move up or that hopefully they stumble and get worse so we can compete.

We need to find a way to climb this ladder and get to their level. We have to continue improving on the field and in recruiting but as fans we have to decide if we are willing to make the financial investment that it will take to get to that level. We’ve raised some money and we have some upgrades coming but we have much more to do. This isn’t all about coaches and players. We have to decide if it’s worth it to us as financial backers of this program to do our part to move us up the ladder as well.


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Re: Unstoppable

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:51 am

John K wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:44 pm
grizzh8r wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:59 pm
Hi-Line Bobcat wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:08 pm
They were better in every area of the game. I personally hope the stay in the FCS so we have a benchmark to try to get to. Right now we are nowhere near the category of NDSU, but with how the university is growing and with new facilities, I’m excited to see where MSU can go.
As much as I hate to say it - because I've never been a proponent of if, nor will I ever be and dislike it with every fiber of my being - I really don't see how MSU will ever get to that level without FCOA.

JMU has it, I believe. Go Dukes.
I would love to see a comparison between FCOA schools and non-FCOA schools, in terms of their relative level of success on average. My personal opinion is that it isn't nearly as big of a factor as some on here seem to believe, although I have no empirical evidence to support that claim. I'm not saying it's no factor at all, but I don't buy the assertion that we can't win a NC without it. Among all the many factors that have combined to lead NDSU to this level of dominance, in my opinion that's fairly far down on the list.
John, I agree. FCOA has only been around since about 2015, and NDSU has only used it for 3 to 4 years. They were already winning FCS championships. They used to be pretty dominant in D-II before that. FCOA has probably been of some importance to them in maintaining their position since their rivals like SDSU have it.

Their ability to identify and develop NFL-caliber QBs and lines is pretty much their secret. Brock Jensen, Carson Wentz, Easton Stick, now Trey Lance. They did not come in as huge 4-star+ recruits. They build them out back in their practice facility.



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Re: Unstoppable

Post by nanacat » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:02 am

"Their ability to identify and develop NFL-caliber QBs and lines is pretty much their secret. Brock Jensen, Carson Wentz, Easton Stick, now Trey Lance. They did not come in as huge 4-star+ recruits. They build them out back in their practice facility."

So this is on coaches to handle. Do we have coaches capable of developing a NFL caliber qb?



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Re: Unstoppable

Post by Catsrgrood » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:54 am

John K wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:44 pm
grizzh8r wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:59 pm
Hi-Line Bobcat wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:08 pm
They were better in every area of the game. I personally hope the stay in the FCS so we have a benchmark to try to get to. Right now we are nowhere near the category of NDSU, but with how the university is growing and with new facilities, I’m excited to see where MSU can go.
As much as I hate to say it - because I've never been a proponent of if, nor will I ever be and dislike it with every fiber of my being - I really don't see how MSU will ever get to that level without FCOA.

JMU has it, I believe. Go Dukes.
I would love to see a comparison between FCOA schools and non-FCOA schools, in terms of their relative level of success on average. My personal opinion is that it isn't nearly as big of a factor as some on here seem to believe, although I have no empirical evidence to support that claim. I'm not saying it's no factor at all, but I don't buy the assertion that we can't win a NC without it. Among all the many factors that have combined to lead NDSU to this level of dominance, in my opinion that's fairly far down on the list.
I agree. This FCOA is being blown out of proportion a little. Does it help? Absolutely. Is it the reason NDSU is so dominant? No.

I’m sure it would bring in a couple guys that wouldn’t otherwise come and possibly keep a couple guys that would otherwise transfer out after a year or two, but it’s not going to be the magic bullet to all of a sudden be in that NDSU/JMU class.



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Re: Unstoppable

Post by Bocephus » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:10 am

nanacat wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:02 am
"Their ability to identify and develop NFL-caliber QBs and lines is pretty much their secret. Brock Jensen, Carson Wentz, Easton Stick, now Trey Lance. They did not come in as huge 4-star+ recruits. They build them out back in their practice facility."

So this is on coaches to handle. Do we have coaches capable of developing a NFL caliber qb?
One thing that is interesting about their blueprint is hiring from within. Bohl was there for 10 years. Can we we keep Choate that long to create a culture and develop his assistants enough to take his place? Will the assistants wait around 10 years to advance their careers?



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Re: Unstoppable

Post by 84CatGrad » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:45 am

HelenaCat95 wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:31 pm
GoCats18 wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:25 pm
HelenaCat95 wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:11 pm
Last year Choate and Company learned a lot from the NDSU game......and we got better.
This year, I expect that we will learn more.....and get better.

Can we get to NDSU's level? Until we have the facilities, full Cost of Attendance, etc......I don't know. But we will get better.

NDSU should go Mountain West, Sun Belt, whatever (I don't think Big 10 will let them in). But they're good enough to compete at the next level.

The thing for me is that it is not just us. The FCS needs the MVC to get better. When teams in their own conference can compete with them and make it so they come into the playoffs having to travel, that is the end of NDSU. It starts with their conference doing its job and unfortunately, their conference is not that good.
Agreed. And I would add that it's not good for the FCS to have this kind of dominance.
Sports and rivalries need true competition to remain relevant and grow. NDSU kind of dominance is not good for FCS football. Other than fans of NDSU and fans of MSU, who wants to watch this? How will FCS football grow when it's a foregone conclusion who the best team is every year?

To a certain extent, FBS is facing the same problem....with the Ohio States, Clemsons, Oklahomas and Alabamas always at the top - who else can compete (besides LSU this year)?
I don't see the parallel between NDSU's domination of FCS and the current FBS situation. There are at least a dozen FBS teams that have at least a shot at the title (those you named as well as Notre Dame, Oregon, Auburn, Florida, Florida St, Michigan, Michigan St, Georgia, Washington, maybe even Utah, Penn St, Wisconsin and a few others). I get your point, there are 4-5 elite teams. But in FCS there is clearly only ONE elite team.



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Re: Unstoppable

Post by CelticCat » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:27 am

84CatGrad wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:45 am
HelenaCat95 wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:31 pm
GoCats18 wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:25 pm
HelenaCat95 wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:11 pm
Last year Choate and Company learned a lot from the NDSU game......and we got better.
This year, I expect that we will learn more.....and get better.

Can we get to NDSU's level? Until we have the facilities, full Cost of Attendance, etc......I don't know. But we will get better.

NDSU should go Mountain West, Sun Belt, whatever (I don't think Big 10 will let them in). But they're good enough to compete at the next level.

The thing for me is that it is not just us. The FCS needs the MVC to get better. When teams in their own conference can compete with them and make it so they come into the playoffs having to travel, that is the end of NDSU. It starts with their conference doing its job and unfortunately, their conference is not that good.
Agreed. And I would add that it's not good for the FCS to have this kind of dominance.
Sports and rivalries need true competition to remain relevant and grow. NDSU kind of dominance is not good for FCS football. Other than fans of NDSU and fans of MSU, who wants to watch this? How will FCS football grow when it's a foregone conclusion who the best team is every year?

To a certain extent, FBS is facing the same problem....with the Ohio States, Clemsons, Oklahomas and Alabamas always at the top - who else can compete (besides LSU this year)?
I don't see the parallel between NDSU's domination of FCS and the current FBS situation. There are at least a dozen FBS teams that have at least a shot at the title (those you named as well as Notre Dame, Oregon, Auburn, Florida, Florida St, Michigan, Michigan St, Georgia, Washington, maybe even Utah, Penn St, Wisconsin and a few others). I get your point, there are 4-5 elite teams. But in FCS there is clearly only ONE elite team.
I actually think the climate in the FCS is more prone to a single team dominance. There are simply too many talented players across the country for the FBS. In the FCS you are able to get guys that could/should be FBS players, or even guys that were legit FBS players. In the FBS there is no level above so you can't as easily recruit out of your league, so to speak. So there exists a climate where one team can be significantly more talented than another.

Throw in the fact that only a dozen or so FCS programs have communities or fans that care, and you are looking at a recipe for little to no parity. I mean it only gets worse the further you drop down, what are those two D3 teams or whatever that play for the NC like every year.


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Re: Unstoppable

Post by kennethnoisewater » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:00 am

The FCS over the next few years is going to be interesting. I do think schools and their fan bases see NDSU's dominance and wonder what the point is in playing if we don't have a chance to compete for a national championship. MSU is in the top 10% of FCS programs, probably the top 5%--much closer to the haves than the have-nots. So eventually, what happens to 70% of the other programs in the FCS? Do they just go D-II or do they find a way to compete? To me it seems like all the teams getting 2,000 fans or less per game (which means the university gets virtually zero revenue from Football, easily the most expensive sport) will either need to go away or go down to D-II where they only have 30 or 40 scholarships.

I think we're seeing the same disparity in FCS as we did in FBS, and it seems like FBS is leveling out a bit. Five years ago Alabama was so dominant it just didn't seem fair, now there are more teams in the mix. Can the FCS level out? I believe it can and there are probably 20 schools that are capable of getting into the mix. UM was too dominant in the BSC in the 90's, but a few schools realized they just needed to get better. A rising tide lifts all boats. I just don't think NDSU is unstoppable forever. If MSU had a couple more pieces, that game is much more competitive. One of those pieces wears #15 but didn't play. MSU has continuously improved and seems to be on the same trajectory. It might take a couple years, but if MSU stays on this trajectory, they'll be able to compete.


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Re: Unstoppable

Post by WalkOn79 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:11 am

rivercat wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:36 pm
NDSU is in the right division. They are a small land grant university in a rural state. They have a lot of similar institutions nearby. They just play football better than everyone else. Like it or not, they should be an FCS team.
Yep. We just need to get better and it will start with the facility upgrade. We also need to provide better financial support. One of their posters said they cover all scholarships plus FCOA with booster club annual giving. About $5.7 Million. That's 3 TIMES what we raise right now with Bobcat Club annual giving.

Oil money, Blah, Blah.........

We just need to do better or we'll never be at that level. We're a bigger, better university in many ways but support for athletics isn't one of those ways, yet!


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Re: Unstoppable

Post by RobertoGato » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:21 am

WalkOn79 wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:11 am
rivercat wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:36 pm
NDSU is in the right division. They are a small land grant university in a rural state. They have a lot of similar institutions nearby. They just play football better than everyone else. Like it or not, they should be an FCS team.
Yep. We just need to get better and it will start with the facility upgrade. We also need to provide better financial support. One of their posters said they cover all scholarships plus FCOA with booster club annual giving. About $5.7 Million. That's 3 TIMES what we raise right now with Bobcat Club annual giving.

Oil money, Blah, Blah.........

We just need to do better or we'll never be at that level. We're a bigger, better university in many ways but support for athletics isn't one of those ways, yet!
You'd think with the explosion in the Gallatin Valley and the subsequent affluence, it should be attainable in time.



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Re: Unstoppable

Post by bobcat99 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:02 pm

RobertoGato wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:21 am
WalkOn79 wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:11 am
rivercat wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:36 pm
NDSU is in the right division. They are a small land grant university in a rural state. They have a lot of similar institutions nearby. They just play football better than everyone else. Like it or not, they should be an FCS team.
Yep. We just need to get better and it will start with the facility upgrade. We also need to provide better financial support. One of their posters said they cover all scholarships plus FCOA with booster club annual giving. About $5.7 Million. That's 3 TIMES what we raise right now with Bobcat Club annual giving.

Oil money, Blah, Blah.........

We just need to do better or we'll never be at that level. We're a bigger, better university in many ways but support for athletics isn't one of those ways, yet!
You'd think with the explosion in the Gallatin Valley and the subsequent affluence, it should be attainable in time.
Few of the wealthy have any connection to MSU.



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Re: Unstoppable

Post by WalkOn79 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:15 pm

bobcat99 wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:02 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:21 am
WalkOn79 wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:11 am
rivercat wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:36 pm
NDSU is in the right division. They are a small land grant university in a rural state. They have a lot of similar institutions nearby. They just play football better than everyone else. Like it or not, they should be an FCS team.
Yep. We just need to get better and it will start with the facility upgrade. We also need to provide better financial support. One of their posters said they cover all scholarships plus FCOA with booster club annual giving. About $5.7 Million. That's 3 TIMES what we raise right now with Bobcat Club annual giving.

Oil money, Blah, Blah.........

We just need to do better or we'll never be at that level. We're a bigger, better university in many ways but support for athletics isn't one of those ways, yet!
You'd think with the explosion in the Gallatin Valley and the subsequent affluence, it should be attainable in time.
Few of the wealthy have any connection to MSU.
A lot of the oil money in North Dakota probably has no direct connection to NDSU either. Might be more football fans in that goroup though :)


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of Montana State football
will not be entrusted to
the timid or weak!"

Cliff Hysell, RIP

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Re: Unstoppable

Post by HelenaCat » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:53 pm

A lot of native North Dakotans get pretty good royalties for oil on their farms. I have to guess some of that comes back to NDSU in charitable donations since it is the land grant school.



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Re: Unstoppable

Post by PapaG » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:04 pm

nanacat wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:12 pm
GoCats18 wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:07 pm
Love seeing us get to the Semifinals. Proud of this team. Streak against UM is a 4, we showed we can win home playoffs game just like NDSU. You get them on the road in the playoffs, and I bet they won’t win.
Not that it matters, but I wonder what this game would have been like outside in the snow and cold? I'm thinking not like it was at all. I agree about them being on the road in the playoffs. Home is comfy, traveling sucks usually. So proud if this team though. Such a great season. The Bizon are mighty, but the mighty have to fall sometime.
It would have been the same IMO, maybe even worse.


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Re: Unstoppable

Post by TomCat88 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:11 pm

PapaG wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:04 pm
nanacat wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:12 pm
GoCats18 wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:07 pm
Love seeing us get to the Semifinals. Proud of this team. Streak against UM is a 4, we showed we can win home playoffs game just like NDSU. You get them on the road in the playoffs, and I bet they won’t win.
Not that it matters, but I wonder what this game would have been like outside in the snow and cold? I'm thinking not like it was at all. I agree about them being on the road in the playoffs. Home is comfy, traveling sucks usually. So proud if this team though. Such a great season. The Bizon are mighty, but the mighty have to fall sometime.
It would have been the same IMO, maybe even worse.
Not likely. Dome teams don't play as well outdoors in the cold. Hardly anyone plays better on the road vs. at home. I think teams from the south play better outdoors in the cold than dome teams. They still would've won, but it wouldn't have been as lopsided.


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