1-5

[BelgradeBobcat]

Cat fans are a whole different animal and a psychiatrist would have a field day trying to capture the essence of what it truly means to be a diehard and hardcore Cat fan. There's a long history that plays into the diagnosis and although I'm not a psychiatrist, I'll still give my two cents. Many Cat fans are the exact opposite of the run-of-mill grizz fan I described above and have difficulty processing success, and what's more, the better the Cats season is going, the more likely the deep rooted and long-established neuroses will surface. Quite simply, Cats fans have difficulty believing and often don’t dare projecting hope because they fear they will be beat down again like they were in the past.

Seeing these neuroses in this magnitude is a good thing I suppose. It simply means the Cats are playing well and these individuals are trying to guard against the feeling of hope that has betrayed them in the past. The better the season goes, the more we’ll see this neurotic behavior.

I’ll take it. It means we are playing well and still have a chance at a great season.

Get out of my head! I didn't give you permission to be in there.
This is me absolutely.
When we were up 28-7 against Cal Poly I told those around me the lead is not big enough-we're gonna blow it. But it wouldn't have mattered if we were ahead 42-0 with 5 minutes to go. I would still think we might blow it.

[wapiti]

He'd have been handing the ball off to Chad Newell and Nick LaSane. That would have been awesome to watch with our improvements on defense.

But the next year, 2017, we'd presumably be right back to where we are now.

Disagree. Bruggman likely never comes here. Murray isn't thrust into the fire as a true freshman and instead gets to spend his freshman season adapting to collegiate life and maybe (conjecture) doesn't end up dropping out. Prukop not returning ended up having a huge domino effect. Not saying we shouldn't have been able to overcome it - it just is what it is.

Right, I get that part about Bruggman. But that was 2016, right? Unless I'm Brian Williams-ing and misremembering things.

Murray and Rovig would have still been recruited and ostensibly still committed to the Cats and been the presumptive front runners for the qb position in 2017. I'm trying to say that 2016 would have been better, but 2017 and 2018 probably would have been no different and that we still go 5-6 and then 8-5.

Edit: I guess I'm trying to say that no matter when Prukop decided to leave, we'd have been thin at qb in 2017 and 2018.

Have to agree, it would have made a difference in 2016 but not thereafter because Bruggman likely wouldn't have come, and Murray would have used his redshirt in 2016, and played in 2017 but after that he dropped out for academic reasons which was at the end of 2017 - that still happens, and recruiting since most likely remains the same with Rovig and Bauman.

I think the impact was much bigger than that. Prukop stays and Murray gets to redshirt, which means running scout team and learning how to be a top FCS qb under Prukop and not just game-planning each week as a 17-18 yr old. Maybe pick up some very good things from Dakota as he had to work very hard to become a more efficient passer. That senior leadership effect can last for years. I think that redshirt transition year may have been critical in hindsight. I’m just putting in the assumption that this would have been positively impactful on his education as well.

With that in mind, he’d have been a redshirt junior this year and the guys behind him would’ve had more time to develop as a result. With no other unforeseen events, Bauman may not have even had a chance to start until his redshirt junior season. The timeline of qb development may have been much better instead of younger kids consistently being thrown to the wolves.

What if McQuery had stayed? He played really well for Tech.
If Ash had put McQuery in the Cat-Griz after the 3rd INT (The game where Bleskin threw nothing but INTs) I think McQuery would have stayed.

[codecat]

He'd have been handing the ball off to Chad Newell and Nick LaSane. That would have been awesome to watch with our improvements on defense.

But the next year, 2017, we'd presumably be right back to where we are now.

Disagree. Bruggman likely never comes here. Murray isn't thrust into the fire as a true freshman and instead gets to spend his freshman season adapting to collegiate life and maybe (conjecture) doesn't end up dropping out. Prukop not returning ended up having a huge domino effect. Not saying we shouldn't have been able to overcome it - it just is what it is.

Right, I get that part about Bruggman. But that was 2016, right? Unless I'm Brian Williams-ing and misremembering things.

Murray and Rovig would have still been recruited and ostensibly still committed to the Cats and been the presumptive front runners for the qb position in 2017. I'm trying to say that 2016 would have been better, but 2017 and 2018 probably would have been no different and that we still go 5-6 and then 8-5.

Edit: I guess I'm trying to say that no matter when Prukop decided to leave, we'd have been thin at qb in 2017 and 2018.

Have to agree, it would have made a difference in 2016 but not thereafter because Bruggman likely wouldn't have come, and Murray would have used his redshirt in 2016, and played in 2017 but after that he dropped out for academic reasons which was at the end of 2017 - that still happens, and recruiting since most likely remains the same with Rovig and Bauman.

I think the impact was much bigger than that. Prukop stays and Murray gets to redshirt, which means running scout team and learning how to be a top FCS qb under Prukop and not just game-planning each week as a 17-18 yr old. Maybe pick up some very good things from Dakota as he had to work very hard to become a more efficient passer. That senior leadership effect can last for years. I think that redshirt transition year may have been critical in hindsight. I’m just putting in the assumption that this would have been positively impactful on his education as well.

With that in mind, he’d have been a redshirt junior this year and the guys behind him would’ve had more time to develop as a result. With no other unforeseen events, Bauman may not have even had a chance to start until his redshirt junior season. The timeline of qb development may have been much better instead of younger kids consistently being thrown to the wolves.

I'll go even one step further. If Dak Pru stays, Jordan Hoy stays and we actually get him starting and giving Murray or whoever more time to accustom to the position in college. Granted I dont know that Murray fits the mold we have now, but Prukop stays and buys in, then maybe that influences Jordan and him mentors him.

Good points guys - I forgot about Hoy, and it is possibility that he would stay in that scenario, but I still think whatever the 2 years are for Murray, he still doesn't make the grade off the field.

[WalkOn79]

I don't know. I was around and even in school when we dominated the Big Sky and the Griz. I have always expected us to get back to that place

[Long Time Cat]

I don't know. I was around and even in school when we dominated the Big Sky and the Griz. I have always expected us to get back to that place

My thoughts exactly.

We must be the same age. Old.

[msuhunter]

I don't know. I was around and even in school when we dominated the Big Sky and the Griz. I have always expected us to get back to that place

My thoughts exactly.

We must be the same age. Old.

That’s exactly what we should be striving for and expecting. I think we’re on that tract now, but the damage to the culture done by ash can’t be overstated. It was just “another game” and we instilled a culture where just enough was good enough. I’m glad to see that’s starting to reverse course. As displeased as I have been with some lackluster performances this year, the start of NAU and the Cal Poly collapse before coming back, there’s no doubt the change in culture by Choate was responsible for those wins. Under ash and Marshall, this team is likely sitting best case at 2-3, more likely 1-4.

[onceacat]

He'd have been handing the ball off to Chad Newell and Nick LaSane. That would have been awesome to watch with our improvements on defense.

But the next year, 2017, we'd presumably be right back to where we are now.

Disagree. Bruggman likely never comes here. Murray isn't thrust into the fire as a true freshman and instead gets to spend his freshman season adapting to collegiate life and maybe (conjecture) doesn't end up dropping out. Prukop not returning ended up having a huge domino effect. Not saying we shouldn't have been able to overcome it - it just is what it is.

Right, I get that part about Bruggman. But that was 2016, right? Unless I'm Brian Williams-ing and misremembering things.

Murray and Rovig would have still been recruited and ostensibly still committed to the Cats and been the presumptive front runners for the qb position in 2017. I'm trying to say that 2016 would have been better, but 2017 and 2018 probably would have been no different and that we still go 5-6 and then 8-5.

Edit: I guess I'm trying to say that no matter when Prukop decided to leave, we'd have been thin at qb in 2017 and 2018.

Have to agree, it would have made a difference in 2016 but not thereafter because Bruggman likely wouldn't have come, and Murray would have used his redshirt in 2016, and played in 2017 but after that he dropped out for academic reasons which was at the end of 2017 - that still happens, and recruiting since most likely remains the same with Rovig and Bauman.

I think the impact was much bigger than that. Prukop stays and Murray gets to redshirt, which means running scout team and learning how to be a top FCS qb under Prukop and not just game-planning each week as a 17-18 yr old. Maybe pick up some very good things from Dakota as he had to work very hard to become a more efficient passer. That senior leadership effect can last for years. I think that redshirt transition year may have been critical in hindsight. I’m just putting in the assumption that this would have been positively impactful on his education as well.

With that in mind, he’d have been a redshirt junior this year and the guys behind him would’ve had more time to develop as a result. With no other unforeseen events, Bauman may not have even had a chance to start until his redshirt junior season. The timeline of qb development may have been much better instead of younger kids consistently being thrown to the wolves.

I'll go even one step further. If Dak Pru stays, Jordan Hoy stays and we actually get him starting and giving Murray or whoever more time to accustom to the position in college. Granted I dont know that Murray fits the mold we have now, but Prukop stays and buys in, then maybe that influences Jordan and him mentors him.

Good points guys - I forgot about Hoy, and it is possibility that he would stay in that scenario, but I still think whatever the 2 years are for Murray, he still doesn't make the grade off the field.

Maybe I tend to think the best of people, but it seems to me that if Murray spends his freshman year on the scout team rather than becoming the hero of Cat-Griz, maybe he goes to class second semester (I'm making the assumption that's the only reason his grades could possibly have gotten that bad). Being the starting QB is a big time and emotional commitment...its easy to see how both starting AND passing classes was overwhelming.

[utucats]

This thread is pathetic. I can’t believe some of you are still critiquing Prukop, and even worse, are still so critical of him. Awful.

It is shocking when a site dedicated to discussing Bobcat football does just that.

The point that is being made is quite simple and not really critical of Prukop at all. Prukop, as talented as he was, led a much different offense and although many Cat fans may have found it exciting it didn’t translate to Ws. What we have now is a far superior way to approach playing this team game.

Weird. Critiquing football. Assessing strengths and weaknesses.

I sure hope the coaching staff doesn't critique its players. I sure hope Canadian football teams don't critique Prukop when it comes time for him to change teams.

Lets all hold hands, sing kum-by-ah and pretend like not a single one of our players have strengths and weaknesses.

Participation awards for everyone!

Thanks for that incredible football analysis of a guy that played for MSU a number years ago. I am sure that many people are hanging on the edge of their seats waiting to see what the great minds of UTU and oncecat think.

By the way, you should go check Dakota’s twitter page. This guy clearly loved his time at MSU and proudly displays his affinity for our school. It would seem that a kid who worked so hard for the team would deserve a little more respect. But I am sure your individual contributions to the school far surpass anything this kid may have done...

And lastly, if it is okay to be critical of players, it is definitely okay to be critical of various posters.

You can be critical all you like. I’m a big boy and can take, especially since I know that you actually hang on the edge of your seat waiting for my analysis.

Your defense of Prukop is admirable and completely unnecessary. Kid was a good QB but the style he played in while he was here wasn’t a way to win consistently. That’s all. It’s not bashing him. I think he’d have enjoyed a lot of Ws if Choate was his coach.

[Cataholic]

This thread is pathetic. I can’t believe some of you are still critiquing Prukop, and even worse, are still so critical of him. Awful.

It is shocking when a site dedicated to discussing Bobcat football does just that.

The point that is being made is quite simple and not really critical of Prukop at all. Prukop, as talented as he was, led a much different offense and although many Cat fans may have found it exciting it didn’t translate to Ws. What we have now is a far superior way to approach playing this team game.

Weird. Critiquing football. Assessing strengths and weaknesses.

I sure hope the coaching staff doesn't critique its players. I sure hope Canadian football teams don't critique Prukop when it comes time for him to change teams.

Lets all hold hands, sing kum-by-ah and pretend like not a single one of our players have strengths and weaknesses.

Participation awards for everyone!

Thanks for that incredible football analysis of a guy that played for MSU a number years ago. I am sure that many people are hanging on the edge of their seats waiting to see what the great minds of UTU and oncecat think.

By the way, you should go check Dakota’s twitter page. This guy clearly loved his time at MSU and proudly displays his affinity for our school. It would seem that a kid who worked so hard for the team would deserve a little more respect. But I am sure your individual contributions to the school far surpass anything this kid may have done...

And lastly, if it is okay to be critical of players, it is definitely okay to be critical of various posters.

You can be critical all you like. I’m a big boy and can take, especially since I know that you actually hang on the edge of your seat waiting for my analysis.

Your defense of Prukop is admirable and completely unnecessary. Kid was a good QB but the style he played in while he was here wasn’t a way to win consistently. That’s all. It’s not bashing him. I think he’d have enjoyed a lot of Ws if Choate was his coach.

I agree completely that Prukop would have been tremendously successful under Choate. Quite honestly, he would have been very successful while he was at MSU if we had any success on the defensive side of the ball. Say what you want, but Dakota was sought after by premier FBS programs because he was really good. Why anybody would want to denigrate his success at MSU is just strange. It simply appears to be sour grapes.

[WalkOn79]

I don't know. I was around and even in school when we dominated the Big Sky and the Griz. I have always expected us to get back to that place

My thoughts exactly.

We must be the same age. Old.

79 to 82 as the name implies

[Darth Yoda]

I don't know. I was around and even in school when we dominated the Big Sky and the Griz. I have always expected us to get back to that place

My thoughts exactly.

We must be the same age. Old.

79 to 82 as the name implies

Fair point. From 1956 to 1985 (the year before the grizz invented football), the Cats held a 22-8 advantage and won 3 national titles. That's quite an era. You guys were there towards the tail end when the wins were expected. I think the streak and "he who shall not be named" changed things.

[WalkOn79]

I don't know. I was around and even in school when we dominated the Big Sky and the Griz. I have always expected us to get back to that place

My thoughts exactly.

We must be the same age. Old.

79 to 82 as the name implies

Fair point. From 1956 to 1985 (the year before the grizz invented football), the Cats held a 22-8 advantage and won 3 national titles. That's quite an era. You guys were there towards the tail end when the wins were expected. I think the streak and "he who shall not be named" changed things.

Mom and Dad started taking me to games when I was 5 or 6, in about 1965. So for 20+ years I expected us to win EVERY game!

[HelenaCat]

I don't know. I was around and even in school when we dominated the Big Sky and the Griz. I have always expected us to get back to that place

My thoughts exactly.

We must be the same age. Old.

79 to 82 as the name implies

Fair point. From 1956 to 1985 (the year before the grizz invented football), the Cats held a 22-8 advantage and won 3 national titles. That's quite an era. You guys were there towards the tail end when the wins were expected. I think the streak and "he who shall not be named" changed things.

Mom and Dad started taking me to games when I was 5 or 6, in about 1965. So for 20+ years I expected us to win EVERY game!

I am just a bit older, but same thing. Mom and Dad took us to every home game when I was about 5 or 6, starting about 1960. We almost always beat the griz. I was in school for my BS and MS from 73 to 78 and we beat the griz every year.

[Cat Grad]

I don't know. I was around and even in school when we dominated the Big Sky and the Griz. I have always expected us to get back to that place

My thoughts exactly.

We must be the same age. Old.

79 to 82 as the name implies

Fair point. From 1956 to 1985 (the year before the grizz invented football), the Cats held a 22-8 advantage and won 3 national titles. That's quite an era. You guys were there towards the tail end when the wins were expected. I think the streak and "he who shall not be named" changed things.

Mom and Dad started taking me to games when I was 5 or 6, in about 1965. So for 20+ years I expected us to win EVERY game!

I am just a bit older, but same thing. Mom and Dad took us to every home game when I was about 5 or 6, starting about 1960. We almost always beat the griz. I was in school for my BS and MS from 73 to 78 and we beat the griz every year.

I guess I'm a bit older than you guys. So, did Sonny Holland ever lose to the Griz? Either as a player or coach? I guess I am getting pretty old...can't remember "stuff."

[thefrank1]

As long as you can remember "the stuff" you're still ok!!

[WalkOn79]

As long as you can remember "the stuff" you're still ok!!

[94VegasCat]

I do believe that said the Cats would play like $h!t at UND.


I want the Cats to win every time they suit up. I go into every game thinking the Cats will win. I go into every game thinking the Cats should win.

Yup they stunk up the joint today!

[coloradocat]

I was waiting for this thread to come back.

[StatedImprovement]

Seems the OP was dead on target