Choate year 4

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RobertoGato
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Re: Choate year 4

Post by RobertoGato » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:00 pm

The only area in which I really hold anything against Choate is at QB.

And even there, he got kind of a raw deal with Chris Murray becoming academically ineligible. Murray wasn't a program changer, but he was progressing and fit well with the run first/defense mentality of the team.

That said, he hasn't landed a transfer who could take over, and his main recruits at the position have not planned out-- yet. I tend to think Rovig isn't going to materialize. Bauman still could. We will see.

Other than QB, Choate has done a stellar job. The team has gotten more talented, deeper, and more successful each season. To lose you QB unexpectedly to academics and still progress the program is impressive. His current recruiting class looks like it's going to be his best yet.



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by 91catAlum » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:17 pm

RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:00 pm
The only area in which I really hold anything against Choate is at QB.

And even there, he got kind of a raw deal with Chris Murray becoming academically ineligible. Murray wasn't a program changer, but he was progressing and fit well with the run first/defense mentality of the team.

That said, he hasn't landed a transfer who could take over, and his main recruits at the position have not planned out-- yet. I tend to think Rovig isn't going to materialize. Bauman still could. We will see.

Other than QB, Choate has done a stellar job. The team has gotten more talented, deeper, and more successful each season. To lose you QB unexpectedly to academics and still progress the program is impressive. His current recruiting class looks like it's going to be his best yet.
Also, he lost his senior all-conference QB when he took the job initially (Prukop) which kinda started this whole chain reaction. If he stays, Bruggman doesn't get recruited, Murray redshirts, etc etc.


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Re: Choate year 4

Post by coloradocat » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:27 pm

I'm interested to see what kind of transfers he gets next year once he doesn't have the same direct connections to UW that he's had so far. Most, if not all, of the Huskies that have come in were recruited and/or coached by him. He'll still have somewhat of a pipeline because of his relationship with the staff there but this might be the last year we can assume we'll get someone.



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by RobertoGato » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:29 pm

91catAlum wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:17 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:00 pm
The only area in which I really hold anything against Choate is at QB.

And even there, he got kind of a raw deal with Chris Murray becoming academically ineligible. Murray wasn't a program changer, but he was progressing and fit well with the run first/defense mentality of the team.

That said, he hasn't landed a transfer who could take over, and his main recruits at the position have not planned out-- yet. I tend to think Rovig isn't going to materialize. Bauman still could. We will see.

Other than QB, Choate has done a stellar job. The team has gotten more talented, deeper, and more successful each season. To lose you QB unexpectedly to academics and still progress the program is impressive. His current recruiting class looks like it's going to be his best yet.
Also, he lost his senior all-conference QB when he took the job initially (Prukop) which kinda started this whole chain reaction. If he stays, Bruggman doesn't get recruited, Murray redshirts, etc etc.
I don't blame him for that aspect. I don't expect a brand new coach coming in with a bare cupboard to be able to fend off a Pac 12 power.



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by 91catAlum » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:20 pm

RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:29 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:17 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:00 pm
The only area in which I really hold anything against Choate is at QB.

And even there, he got kind of a raw deal with Chris Murray becoming academically ineligible. Murray wasn't a program changer, but he was progressing and fit well with the run first/defense mentality of the team.

That said, he hasn't landed a transfer who could take over, and his main recruits at the position have not planned out-- yet. I tend to think Rovig isn't going to materialize. Bauman still could. We will see.

Other than QB, Choate has done a stellar job. The team has gotten more talented, deeper, and more successful each season. To lose you QB unexpectedly to academics and still progress the program is impressive. His current recruiting class looks like it's going to be his best yet.
Also, he lost his senior all-conference QB when he took the job initially (Prukop) which kinda started this whole chain reaction. If he stays, Bruggman doesn't get recruited, Murray redshirts, etc etc.
I don't blame him for that aspect. I don't expect a brand new coach coming in with a bare cupboard to be able to fend off a Pac 12 power.
I don't blame Choate for Prukop leaving. I'm saying that Choate was immediately put in a tough situation at QB when Prukop left.


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Re: Choate year 4

Post by RobertoGato » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:40 pm

91catAlum wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:20 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:29 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:17 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:00 pm
The only area in which I really hold anything against Choate is at QB.

And even there, he got kind of a raw deal with Chris Murray becoming academically ineligible. Murray wasn't a program changer, but he was progressing and fit well with the run first/defense mentality of the team.

That said, he hasn't landed a transfer who could take over, and his main recruits at the position have not planned out-- yet. I tend to think Rovig isn't going to materialize. Bauman still could. We will see.

Other than QB, Choate has done a stellar job. The team has gotten more talented, deeper, and more successful each season. To lose you QB unexpectedly to academics and still progress the program is impressive. His current recruiting class looks like it's going to be his best yet.
Also, he lost his senior all-conference QB when he took the job initially (Prukop) which kinda started this whole chain reaction. If he stays, Bruggman doesn't get recruited, Murray redshirts, etc etc.
I don't blame him for that aspect. I don't expect a brand new coach coming in with a bare cupboard to be able to fend off a Pac 12 power.
I don't blame Choate for Prukop leaving. I'm saying that Choate was immediately put in a tough situation at QB when Prukop left.
Ah-- my fault. Yes, that's a good point.



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by BleedingBLue » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:00 pm

RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:00 pm
The only area in which I really hold anything against Choate is at QB.

And even there, he got kind of a raw deal with Chris Murray becoming academically ineligible. Murray wasn't a program changer, but he was progressing and fit well with the run first/defense mentality of the team.

That said, he hasn't landed a transfer who could take over, and his main recruits at the position have not planned out-- yet. I tend to think Rovig isn't going to materialize. Bauman still could. We will see.

Other than QB, Choate has done a stellar job. The team has gotten more talented, deeper, and more successful each season. To lose you QB unexpectedly to academics and still progress the program is impressive. His current recruiting class looks like it's going to be his best yet.
I don't think its fair to hold the QB position against Choate yet. To say that his 2 best QB recruits haven't panned out is premature considering neither is an upperclassmen yet. Bauman is a RS Freshman and Rovig a RS Sophomore. 0 starts and 2 starts respectively. There is nothing to go on to say they haven't panned out either. Had Murray not had issues they would both be competing to back him up in his senior season coming up.



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by RobertoGato » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:28 pm

BleedingBLue wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:00 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:00 pm
The only area in which I really hold anything against Choate is at QB.

And even there, he got kind of a raw deal with Chris Murray becoming academically ineligible. Murray wasn't a program changer, but he was progressing and fit well with the run first/defense mentality of the team.

That said, he hasn't landed a transfer who could take over, and his main recruits at the position have not planned out-- yet. I tend to think Rovig isn't going to materialize. Bauman still could. We will see.

Other than QB, Choate has done a stellar job. The team has gotten more talented, deeper, and more successful each season. To lose you QB unexpectedly to academics and still progress the program is impressive. His current recruiting class looks like it's going to be his best yet.
I don't think its fair to hold the QB position against Choate yet. To say that his 2 best QB recruits haven't panned out is premature considering neither is an upperclassmen yet. Bauman is a RS Freshman and Rovig a RS Sophomore. 0 starts and 2 starts respectively. There is nothing to go on to say they haven't panned out either. Had Murray not had issues they would both be competing to back him up in his senior season coming up.
What I said was that I don't think the one is going to work out, and there's still time for the other.



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by catsrback76 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:00 am

RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:28 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:00 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:00 pm
The only area in which I really hold anything against Choate is at QB.

And even there, he got kind of a raw deal with Chris Murray becoming academically ineligible. Murray wasn't a program changer, but he was progressing and fit well with the run first/defense mentality of the team.

That said, he hasn't landed a transfer who could take over, and his main recruits at the position have not planned out-- yet. I tend to think Rovig isn't going to materialize. Bauman still could. We will see.

Other than QB, Choate has done a stellar job. The team has gotten more talented, deeper, and more successful each season. To lose you QB unexpectedly to academics and still progress the program is impressive. His current recruiting class looks like it's going to be his best yet.
I don't think its fair to hold the QB position against Choate yet. To say that his 2 best QB recruits haven't panned out is premature considering neither is an upperclassmen yet. Bauman is a RS Freshman and Rovig a RS Sophomore. 0 starts and 2 starts respectively. There is nothing to go on to say they haven't panned out either. Had Murray not had issues they would both be competing to back him up in his senior season coming up.
What I said was that I don't think the one is going to work out, and there's still time for the other.

Not sure what you are seeing in either of the front running QB's to level a judgement of "not going to pan out", but, there is also Ruben Beltran and two incoming freshmen QB's recruited by Coach that will all have a chance to show if they "pan out". Could it be that all 3 of the top 3 are good enough to start and lead the Cats to the playoffs? I tend to go down that road knowing how diverse the O will be with any of them at the helm!



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by RobertoGato » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:27 am

catsrback76 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:00 am
RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:28 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:00 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:00 pm
The only area in which I really hold anything against Choate is at QB.

And even there, he got kind of a raw deal with Chris Murray becoming academically ineligible. Murray wasn't a program changer, but he was progressing and fit well with the run first/defense mentality of the team.

That said, he hasn't landed a transfer who could take over, and his main recruits at the position have not planned out-- yet. I tend to think Rovig isn't going to materialize. Bauman still could. We will see.

Other than QB, Choate has done a stellar job. The team has gotten more talented, deeper, and more successful each season. To lose you QB unexpectedly to academics and still progress the program is impressive. His current recruiting class looks like it's going to be his best yet.
I don't think its fair to hold the QB position against Choate yet. To say that his 2 best QB recruits haven't panned out is premature considering neither is an upperclassmen yet. Bauman is a RS Freshman and Rovig a RS Sophomore. 0 starts and 2 starts respectively. There is nothing to go on to say they haven't panned out either. Had Murray not had issues they would both be competing to back him up in his senior season coming up.
What I said was that I don't think the one is going to work out, and there's still time for the other.

Not sure what you are seeing in either of the front running QB's to level a judgement of "not going to pan out", but, there is also Ruben Beltran and two incoming freshmen QB's recruited by Coach that will all have a chance to show if they "pan out". Could it be that all 3 of the top 3 are good enough to start and lead the Cats to the playoffs? I tend to go down that road knowing how diverse the O will be with any of them at the helm!

Yes, it could be. It's unlikely, but it's within the range of possibilities. I'm telling you what I think is the case concerning one of the three based on what I've seen.



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by Mr Lisle » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:38 am

RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:29 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:17 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:00 pm
The only area in which I really hold anything against Choate is at QB.

And even there, he got kind of a raw deal with Chris Murray becoming academically ineligible. Murray wasn't a program changer, but he was progressing and fit well with the run first/defense mentality of the team.

That said, he hasn't landed a transfer who could take over, and his main recruits at the position have not planned out-- yet. I tend to think Rovig isn't going to materialize. Bauman still could. We will see.

Other than QB, Choate has done a stellar job. The team has gotten more talented, deeper, and more successful each season. To lose you QB unexpectedly to academics and still progress the program is impressive. His current recruiting class looks like it's going to be his best yet.
Also, he lost his senior all-conference QB when he took the job initially (Prukop) which kinda started this whole chain reaction. If he stays, Bruggman doesn't get recruited, Murray redshirts, etc etc.
I don't blame him for that aspect. I don't expect a brand new coach coming in with a bare cupboard to be able to fend off a Pac 12 power.
The "bare cupboard" aspect is perhaps a matter of perspective, but here comes a partial list of the returnees avaliable when Choate arrived... :deadhorse: Brekke, Paige, Evans, McCabe, Garcia, Barth, Newell, Lasane, Chapman, G. Collins, Cozzie, Daly, Hadley, Hoy, Bignell, Folsom, Mahoney, Fa'anono, Hill, F. Collins, Brott, Brott, Gillis, Flynn, Amos, Herbert, Sullivan, D'agostino, Yates, Wright, Ferriterr. You can look at the 2016 roster and add several more. There are a lot of fine football players there. But Choate was correctly tearing down and rebuilding to fit his image. Many of the above have been and still are a major part of that. I like the way things are turning out.



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by cats2506 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:02 am

91catAlum wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:20 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:29 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:17 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:00 pm
The only area in which I really hold anything against Choate is at QB.

And even there, he got kind of a raw deal with Chris Murray becoming academically ineligible. Murray wasn't a program changer, but he was progressing and fit well with the run first/defense mentality of the team.

That said, he hasn't landed a transfer who could take over, and his main recruits at the position have not planned out-- yet. I tend to think Rovig isn't going to materialize. Bauman still could. We will see.

Other than QB, Choate has done a stellar job. The team has gotten more talented, deeper, and more successful each season. To lose you QB unexpectedly to academics and still progress the program is impressive. His current recruiting class looks like it's going to be his best yet.
Also, he lost his senior all-conference QB when he took the job initially (Prukop) which kinda started this whole chain reaction. If he stays, Bruggman doesn't get recruited, Murray redshirts, etc etc.
I don't blame him for that aspect. I don't expect a brand new coach coming in with a bare cupboard to be able to fend off a Pac 12 power.
I don't blame Choate for Prukop leaving. I'm saying that Choate was immediately put in a tough situation at QB when Prukop left.
I thought Prukop had committed to Oregon before Choate was named anyway


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Re: Choate year 4

Post by RobertoGato » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:26 am

Mr Lisle wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:38 am
RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:29 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:17 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:00 pm
The only area in which I really hold anything against Choate is at QB.

And even there, he got kind of a raw deal with Chris Murray becoming academically ineligible. Murray wasn't a program changer, but he was progressing and fit well with the run first/defense mentality of the team.

That said, he hasn't landed a transfer who could take over, and his main recruits at the position have not planned out-- yet. I tend to think Rovig isn't going to materialize. Bauman still could. We will see.

Other than QB, Choate has done a stellar job. The team has gotten more talented, deeper, and more successful each season. To lose you QB unexpectedly to academics and still progress the program is impressive. His current recruiting class looks like it's going to be his best yet.
Also, he lost his senior all-conference QB when he took the job initially (Prukop) which kinda started this whole chain reaction. If he stays, Bruggman doesn't get recruited, Murray redshirts, etc etc.
I don't blame him for that aspect. I don't expect a brand new coach coming in with a bare cupboard to be able to fend off a Pac 12 power.
The "bare cupboard" aspect is perhaps a matter of perspective, but here comes a partial list of the returnees avaliable when Choate arrived... :deadhorse: Brekke, Paige, Evans, McCabe, Garcia, Barth, Newell, Lasane, Chapman, G. Collins, Cozzie, Daly, Hadley, Hoy, Bignell, Folsom, Mahoney, Fa'anono, Hill, F. Collins, Brott, Brott, Gillis, Flynn, Amos, Herbert, Sullivan, D'agostino, Yates, Wright, Ferriterr. You can look at the 2016 roster and add several more. There are a lot of fine football players there. But Choate was correctly tearing down and rebuilding to fit his image. Many of the above have been and still are a major part of that. I like the way things are turning out.
"Bare cupboard" is not meant to mean that there were no players worth anything-- it's a common expression meant to mean that he didn't have the players to succeed.

I didn't take the time to go through that entire list, but Fa'anono played in one game Choate's first season.



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by spring creek cat » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:52 am

I think you can say the QB problems go back even farther than Prukup transferring. Choates QB issues start with ash mishandling the QBs when we had McQueary and bleskin on the roster! If Quinn McQueary doesn’t transfer he is the starter and fills the void when prukop transfers. The Murray doesn’t have to play immediately



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by technoCat » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:01 am

Mr Lisle wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:38 am
RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:29 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:17 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:00 pm
The only area in which I really hold anything against Choate is at QB.

And even there, he got kind of a raw deal with Chris Murray becoming academically ineligible. Murray wasn't a program changer, but he was progressing and fit well with the run first/defense mentality of the team.

That said, he hasn't landed a transfer who could take over, and his main recruits at the position have not planned out-- yet. I tend to think Rovig isn't going to materialize. Bauman still could. We will see.

Other than QB, Choate has done a stellar job. The team has gotten more talented, deeper, and more successful each season. To lose you QB unexpectedly to academics and still progress the program is impressive. His current recruiting class looks like it's going to be his best yet.
Also, he lost his senior all-conference QB when he took the job initially (Prukop) which kinda started this whole chain reaction. If he stays, Bruggman doesn't get recruited, Murray redshirts, etc etc.
I don't blame him for that aspect. I don't expect a brand new coach coming in with a bare cupboard to be able to fend off a Pac 12 power.
The "bare cupboard" aspect is perhaps a matter of perspective, but here comes a partial list of the returnees avaliable when Choate arrived... :deadhorse: Brekke, Paige, Evans, McCabe, Garcia, Barth, Newell, Lasane, Chapman, G. Collins, Cozzie, Daly, Hadley, Hoy, Bignell, Folsom, Mahoney, Fa'anono, Hill, F. Collins, Brott, Brott, Gillis, Flynn, Amos, Herbert, Sullivan, D'agostino, Yates, Wright, Ferriterr. You can look at the 2016 roster and add several more. There are a lot of fine football players there. But Choate was correctly tearing down and rebuilding to fit his image. Many of the above have been and still are a major part of that. I like the way things are turning out.
At least a third to half of that list are role-players/fillers. Several have missed vast amounts of time. A couple retired/left early. And even then that is only 30 players. I think that the point many were trying to make is the top players were good but they didn't have the depth/makeup that we had earlier in the Ash years.


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Re: Choate year 4

Post by Mr Lisle » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:51 am

technoCat wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:01 am
Mr Lisle wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:38 am
RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:29 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:17 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:00 pm
The only area in which I really hold anything against Choate is at QB.

And even there, he got kind of a raw deal with Chris Murray becoming academically ineligible. Murray wasn't a program changer, but he was progressing and fit well with the run first/defense mentality of the team.

That said, he hasn't landed a transfer who could take over, and his main recruits at the position have not planned out-- yet. I tend to think Rovig isn't going to materialize. Bauman still could. We will see.

Other than QB, Choate has done a stellar job. The team has gotten more talented, deeper, and more successful each season. To lose you QB unexpectedly to academics and still progress the program is impressive. His current recruiting class looks like it's going to be his best yet.
Also, he lost his senior all-conference QB when he took the job initially (Prukop) which kinda started this whole chain reaction. If he stays, Bruggman doesn't get recruited, Murray redshirts, etc etc.
I don't blame him for that aspect. I don't expect a brand new coach coming in with a bare cupboard to be able to fend off a Pac 12 power.
The "bare cupboard" aspect is perhaps a matter of perspective, but here comes a partial list of the returnees avaliable when Choate arrived... :deadhorse: Brekke, Paige, Evans, McCabe, Garcia, Barth, Newell, Lasane, Chapman, G. Collins, Cozzie, Daly, Hadley, Hoy, Bignell, Folsom, Mahoney, Fa'anono, Hill, F. Collins, Brott, Brott, Gillis, Flynn, Amos, Herbert, Sullivan, D'agostino, Yates, Wright, Ferriterr. You can look at the 2016 roster and add several more. There are a lot of fine football players there. But Choate was correctly tearing down and rebuilding to fit his image. Many of the above have been and still are a major part of that. I like the way things are turning out.
At least a third to half of that list are role-players/fillers. Several have missed vast amounts of time. A couple retired/left early. And even then that is only 30 players. I think that the point many were trying to make is the top players were good but they didn't have the depth/makeup that we had earlier in the Ash years.
I can follow that. See "defense" in my earlier post. But still, the Cats had some significant talent, for instance..Hebert, JP, Collins, Yates, Bignell, Newell, Lasane...blocks to build on when Choate arrived



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by kennethnoisewater » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:28 am

I think it's interesting to follow the chain of events that led to the current QB situation. Most of it has been mentioned in this thread, but I think it bears repeating for context. I would agree it started with McQueary. If he would've stayed, he would've played, but I don't necessarily blame anybody for that. It might have taken a miracle to keep him in Bozeman.

Prukop leaves, Choate arrives, Choate has to find somebody. He rolled the dice on Bruggman and it didn't work out. Kramer started out similarly if memory serves. He was big on Farhad Azimi (sp?), he didn't pan out. Then there was Tyler Thomas, who also didn't pan out. Enter Travis Lulay, who was a generational talent that changed MSU football arguably as much as any one person ever. Prior to that, there were a lot of people scratching their heads about Kramer's ability to identify even a halfway decent QB.

So Bruggman doesn't work out, and that's a bit of a negative mark on Choate's early tenure. But this is a position group where the cupboard truly was bare. Every coach should be able to miss on one player at a position group because there should be some depth there. Chris Murray came in and wasn't a great QB, just a great athlete. I think most of us were happy with what he was able to do but not quite satisfied with his pure QB play, although the potential seemed to be there. We all know what happened there to necessitate bringing in Andersen. TA was the same thing as Murray. It was like we always did in Class B High School football--you just put your best athlete at QB and they make stuff happen, even when they aren't the best pure QB in the world. But eventually that bites you. Eventually great wide receivers don't want to come because this hero of a QB completes two passes in a rivalry game. Eventually it looks like a program doesn't like to throw the ball and guys like Gresch Jensen don't want to come to Bozeman to be a game manager. They think that's what the HC wants (just like a lot of fans have thought), and the coach can't show from his past history that it's not what he wants because the evidence just isn't there.

It's just a domino effect that started with an empty cupboard at QB and a swing and a miss on the first recruit Choate was able to bring in. The trajectory of this team is positive, but would have been more positive with the right QB transfer right off the bat. Let's say Bruggman was great. He plays until last year, the Cats probably win a few more games, they're able to attract a different type of talent at the position (as well as at WR). It's a ripple effect that impacts everything with just one recruit. The fact that Choate has not only survived that but has moved the program forward at an impressive rate is a tremendous credit to him.


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Re: Choate year 4

Post by iaafan » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:40 am

kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:28 am
I think it's interesting to follow the chain of events that led to the current QB situation. Most of it has been mentioned in this thread, but I think it bears repeating for context. I would agree it started with McQueary. If he would've stayed, he would've played, but I don't necessarily blame anybody for that. It might have taken a miracle to keep him in Bozeman.

Prukop leaves, Choate arrives, Choate has to find somebody. He rolled the dice on Bruggman and it didn't work out. Kramer started out similarly if memory serves. He was big on Farhad Azimi (sp?), he didn't pan out. Then there was Tyler Thomas, who also didn't pan out. Enter Travis Lulay, who was a generational talent that changed MSU football arguably as much as any one person ever. Prior to that, there were a lot of people scratching their heads about Kramer's ability to identify even a halfway decent QB.

So Bruggman doesn't work out, and that's a bit of a negative mark on Choate's early tenure. But this is a position group where the cupboard truly was bare. Every coach should be able to miss on one player at a position group because there should be some depth there. Chris Murray came in and wasn't a great QB, just a great athlete. I think most of us were happy with what he was able to do but not quite satisfied with his pure QB play, although the potential seemed to be there. We all know what happened there to necessitate bringing in Andersen. TA was the same thing as Murray. It was like we always did in Class B High School football--you just put your best athlete at QB and they make stuff happen, even when they aren't the best pure QB in the world. But eventually that bites you. Eventually great wide receivers don't want to come because this hero of a QB completes two passes in a rivalry game. Eventually it looks like a program doesn't like to throw the ball and guys like Gresch Jensen don't want to come to Bozeman to be a game manager. They think that's what the HC wants (just like a lot of fans have thought), and the coach can't show from his past history that it's not what he wants because the evidence just isn't there.

It's just a domino effect that started with an empty cupboard at QB and a swing and a miss on the first recruit Choate was able to bring in. The trajectory of this team is positive, but would have been more positive with the right QB transfer right off the bat. Let's say Bruggman was great. He plays until last year, the Cats probably win a few more games, they're able to attract a different type of talent at the position (as well as at WR). It's a ripple effect that impacts everything with just one recruit. The fact that Choate has not only survived that but has moved the program forward at an impressive rate is a tremendous credit to him.
Some of this is factually incorrect.



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kennethnoisewater
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Re: Choate year 4

Post by kennethnoisewater » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:42 am

iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:40 am
kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:28 am
I think it's interesting to follow the chain of events that led to the current QB situation. Most of it has been mentioned in this thread, but I think it bears repeating for context. I would agree it started with McQueary. If he would've stayed, he would've played, but I don't necessarily blame anybody for that. It might have taken a miracle to keep him in Bozeman.

Prukop leaves, Choate arrives, Choate has to find somebody. He rolled the dice on Bruggman and it didn't work out. Kramer started out similarly if memory serves. He was big on Farhad Azimi (sp?), he didn't pan out. Then there was Tyler Thomas, who also didn't pan out. Enter Travis Lulay, who was a generational talent that changed MSU football arguably as much as any one person ever. Prior to that, there were a lot of people scratching their heads about Kramer's ability to identify even a halfway decent QB.

So Bruggman doesn't work out, and that's a bit of a negative mark on Choate's early tenure. But this is a position group where the cupboard truly was bare. Every coach should be able to miss on one player at a position group because there should be some depth there. Chris Murray came in and wasn't a great QB, just a great athlete. I think most of us were happy with what he was able to do but not quite satisfied with his pure QB play, although the potential seemed to be there. We all know what happened there to necessitate bringing in Andersen. TA was the same thing as Murray. It was like we always did in Class B High School football--you just put your best athlete at QB and they make stuff happen, even when they aren't the best pure QB in the world. But eventually that bites you. Eventually great wide receivers don't want to come because this hero of a QB completes two passes in a rivalry game. Eventually it looks like a program doesn't like to throw the ball and guys like Gresch Jensen don't want to come to Bozeman to be a game manager. They think that's what the HC wants (just like a lot of fans have thought), and the coach can't show from his past history that it's not what he wants because the evidence just isn't there.

It's just a domino effect that started with an empty cupboard at QB and a swing and a miss on the first recruit Choate was able to bring in. The trajectory of this team is positive, but would have been more positive with the right QB transfer right off the bat. Let's say Bruggman was great. He plays until last year, the Cats probably win a few more games, they're able to attract a different type of talent at the position (as well as at WR). It's a ripple effect that impacts everything with just one recruit. The fact that Choate has not only survived that but has moved the program forward at an impressive rate is a tremendous credit to him.
Some of this is factually incorrect.
OK that's fair, like all of it or....?


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Re: Choate year 4

Post by VimSince03 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:52 am

kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:42 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:40 am
kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:28 am
I think it's interesting to follow the chain of events that led to the current QB situation. Most of it has been mentioned in this thread, but I think it bears repeating for context. I would agree it started with McQueary. If he would've stayed, he would've played, but I don't necessarily blame anybody for that. It might have taken a miracle to keep him in Bozeman.

Prukop leaves, Choate arrives, Choate has to find somebody. He rolled the dice on Bruggman and it didn't work out. Kramer started out similarly if memory serves. He was big on Farhad Azimi (sp?), he didn't pan out. Then there was Tyler Thomas, who also didn't pan out. Enter Travis Lulay, who was a generational talent that changed MSU football arguably as much as any one person ever. Prior to that, there were a lot of people scratching their heads about Kramer's ability to identify even a halfway decent QB.

So Bruggman doesn't work out, and that's a bit of a negative mark on Choate's early tenure. But this is a position group where the cupboard truly was bare. Every coach should be able to miss on one player at a position group because there should be some depth there. Chris Murray came in and wasn't a great QB, just a great athlete. I think most of us were happy with what he was able to do but not quite satisfied with his pure QB play, although the potential seemed to be there. We all know what happened there to necessitate bringing in Andersen. TA was the same thing as Murray. It was like we always did in Class B High School football--you just put your best athlete at QB and they make stuff happen, even when they aren't the best pure QB in the world. But eventually that bites you. Eventually great wide receivers don't want to come because this hero of a QB completes two passes in a rivalry game. Eventually it looks like a program doesn't like to throw the ball and guys like Gresch Jensen don't want to come to Bozeman to be a game manager. They think that's what the HC wants (just like a lot of fans have thought), and the coach can't show from his past history that it's not what he wants because the evidence just isn't there.

It's just a domino effect that started with an empty cupboard at QB and a swing and a miss on the first recruit Choate was able to bring in. The trajectory of this team is positive, but would have been more positive with the right QB transfer right off the bat. Let's say Bruggman was great. He plays until last year, the Cats probably win a few more games, they're able to attract a different type of talent at the position (as well as at WR). It's a ripple effect that impacts everything with just one recruit. The fact that Choate has not only survived that but has moved the program forward at an impressive rate is a tremendous credit to him.
Some of this is factually incorrect.
OK that's fair, like all of it or....?
I would also like to know what is factually incorrect. I thought this was pretty spot on.


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