Choate year 4

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Choate year 4

Post by utucats » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:49 am

I believe that it takes until year 4 or 5 to really be able to evaluate the mark a coach has made on a program.

I’m expecting big things this year from this team that is truly built the way Choate envisioned.

Choate followed a formula that has proven to be a championship recipe. I think we become true contenders this year.


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Re: Choate year 4

Post by gtapp » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:38 am

Agreed. Kind of like building your pro team through the draft. May take a little time but when your done it has lasting power!


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Re: Choate year 4

Post by superbobcat » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:14 am

Coach had to do a total overhaul. That takes time, so I agree with you. Sometimes coaches get lucky and inherit a solid program, Coach Choate did not. The talent of the team determines the success. Either way, glad we have him and the quality assistants he brings in. Has anyone else noticed that basketball and VB are copying some of his strategies as far as communicating and recruiting? Coach Choate is a leader among all coaches and that is a good thing for all BOBCATS!!



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by Clinton T » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:16 am

***Disclaimer - this opinion comes from an armchair AD who never played the game*** Choate has done a great job maintaining the program and building a gritty, unified culture within the team. He hasn't had that all-world, transofmrational recruiting class that brings major excitement like Ash did, but hasn't steered the program into the dirt either. I would disagree that he inherited a turd of a program. The cupboard may have been bare in most position groups, but say what you want about Ash (I am certainly not an Ash apologist) - he continued what Kramer was building and grew it to into something great. Choate didn't have much to do in terms of building a brand or excitement. He inhereted a Corvette that was in need of a tuneup. Not a Pinto. Everything was in place structurally for Choate to come in and be successful.

With that said, I would give Choate a 'B' at this point. There have been plenty of coaches who transform middling to terrible squads into winners their first year. This is certainly not the norm, but that is what would have had happen for him to earn an 'A'. However, he has put our team in a position where fans now expect to make the playoffs and win a couple of games. That is a great place for a program to be in. I wish it had come sooner, but most coaches don't get their teams to this point.



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by technoCat » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:26 am

Clinton T wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:16 am
***Disclaimer - this opinion comes from an armchair AD who never played the game*** Choate has done a great job maintaining the program and building a gritty, unified culture within the team. He hasn't had that all-world, transofmrational recruiting class that brings major excitement like Ash did, but hasn't steered the program into the dirt either. I would disagree that he inherited a turd of a program. The cupboard may have been bare in most position groups, but say what you want about Ash (I am certainly not an Ash apologist) - he continued what Kramer was building and grew it to into something great. Choate didn't have much to do in terms of building a brand or excitement. He inhereted a Corvette that was in need of a tuneup. Not a Pinto. Everything was in place structurally for Choate to come in and be successful.

With that said, I would give Choate a 'B' at this point. There have been plenty of coaches who transform middling to terrible squads into winners their first year. This is certainly not the norm, but that is what would have had happen for him to earn an 'A'. However, he has put our team in a position where fans now expect to make the playoffs and win a couple of games. That is a great place for a program to be in. I wish it had come sooner, but most coaches don't get their teams to this point.
Yeah I've gotta disagree about that corvette. Maybe in the McGhee days but by 2015 we were sorely lacking in talented depth, especially on defense. Maaaaaybe if Prukop hadn't jumped ship but as is, 2016 was a fairly empty cupboard.


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Re: Choate year 4

Post by superbobcat » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:38 am

I really liked And respected Coach Ash, but from a player attitude perspective, he ran his course and it was just time. Coach Choate has to change the mentality and he has done just that.



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by cats2506 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:01 am

Yeah I agree, the first half of the Ash era was good, but Ash came in with a lot of talent and had to clean up a culture problem, he did that and was the right guy for the time. The last half of the Ash era was a downward slide with complete depletion of the defensive side of the ball, the defensive strategy became for the offense to "hold serve" and there became some infighting between the units.

Choate not only had to rebuild the culture but had to rebuild the talent level also. He had some learning to do as a first time HC, but he took his lumps and adapted. I think the talent lever across the board is as high as I can remember (back to the 70's) I cant remember a Cat team with the dept of talent I see now, the one weakness is at QB but I believe that we probably have a "guy" on or roster right now that will preform. I like that Choate is giving younger coaches opportunities and believing in them, rather than limiting yourself to the tried and true schemes of the past and using analytics to make decisions.

IMO Ash cam from a lower level of coaching and eventually brought us down to that level, Choate comes from a higher level and is lifting us to a higher level.


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Re: Choate year 4

Post by bobcat99 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:41 am

Ash did great his first few years.

I don't think most people truly understand how bad/chaotic the last few years of his tenure were. On field, off field, it was bad. Very little conditioning, disrespect for the HC, team didn't get along, failed drug tests but no recourse...it was a damn disaster.

Choate is the best HC we've had, except for maybe the coaching aspect. What he has done with our recruiting, strength and conditioning, nutrition, is all top tier P5 stuff. I'm not sure he'll ever be a top tier X's and O's coach (which is fine, Dabo Swinney isn't either), but he's a damn good coach who has turned this program around in short time. This team, these kids, they never quit. Never. That's on Choate. An Ash team that was down by 20 to the Griz would've never come back, and that's a fact.



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by Cataholic » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:51 am

bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:41 am
Ash did great his first few years.

I don't think most people truly understand how bad/chaotic the last few years of his tenure were. On field, off field, it was bad. Very little conditioning, disrespect for the HC, team didn't get along, failed drug tests but no recourse...it was a damn disaster.

Choate is the best HC we've had, except for maybe the coaching aspect. What he has done with our recruiting, strength and conditioning, nutrition, is all top tier P5 stuff. I'm not sure he'll ever be a top tier X's and O's coach (which is fine, Dabo Swinney isn't either), but he's a damn good coach who has turned this program around in short time. This team, these kids, they never quit. Never. That's on Choate. An Ash team that was down by 20 to the Griz would've never come back, and that's a fact.
Do you belong to QB Club? If not, you might have a different opinion on his x and o knowledge.



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by ilovethecats » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:04 am

Cataholic wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:51 am
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:41 am
Ash did great his first few years.

I don't think most people truly understand how bad/chaotic the last few years of his tenure were. On field, off field, it was bad. Very little conditioning, disrespect for the HC, team didn't get along, failed drug tests but no recourse...it was a damn disaster.

Choate is the best HC we've had, except for maybe the coaching aspect. What he has done with our recruiting, strength and conditioning, nutrition, is all top tier P5 stuff. I'm not sure he'll ever be a top tier X's and O's coach (which is fine, Dabo Swinney isn't either), but he's a damn good coach who has turned this program around in short time. This team, these kids, they never quit. Never. That's on Choate. An Ash team that was down by 20 to the Griz would've never come back, and that's a fact.
Do you belong to QB Club? If not, you might have a different opinion on his x and o knowledge.
I was thinking the same thing. I’ve always been very impressed with his knowledge of the game. Regardless, we are so lucky to have this guy leading our kids. Just straight class. Meanwhile Hauck is threatening to close practices if media asks about injuries.... :roll:



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by 91catAlum » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:06 am

bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:41 am
Ash did great his first few years.

I don't think most people truly understand how bad/chaotic the last few years of his tenure were. On field, off field, it was bad. Very little conditioning, disrespect for the HC, team didn't get along, failed drug tests but no recourse...it was a damn disaster.

Choate is the best HC we've had, except for maybe the coaching aspect. What he has done with our recruiting, strength and conditioning, nutrition, is all top tier P5 stuff. I'm not sure he'll ever be a top tier X's and O's coach (which is fine, Dabo Swinney isn't either), but he's a damn good coach who has turned this program around in short time. This team, these kids, they never quit. Never. That's on Choate. An Ash team that was down by 20 to the Griz would've never come back, and that's a fact.
If you mean his offensive Xs and Os, then maybe. I couldn't say one way or the other.
Defensively I'd say you couldn't be more wrong.


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Re: Choate year 4

Post by bobcat99 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:12 am

Cataholic wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:51 am
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:41 am
Ash did great his first few years.

I don't think most people truly understand how bad/chaotic the last few years of his tenure were. On field, off field, it was bad. Very little conditioning, disrespect for the HC, team didn't get along, failed drug tests but no recourse...it was a damn disaster.

Choate is the best HC we've had, except for maybe the coaching aspect. What he has done with our recruiting, strength and conditioning, nutrition, is all top tier P5 stuff. I'm not sure he'll ever be a top tier X's and O's coach (which is fine, Dabo Swinney isn't either), but he's a damn good coach who has turned this program around in short time. This team, these kids, they never quit. Never. That's on Choate. An Ash team that was down by 20 to the Griz would've never come back, and that's a fact.
Do you belong to QB Club? If not, you might have a different opinion on his x and o knowledge.
I mean, compared to me he's a savant!

I didn't say he was bad in that area at all! Just that it's not his greatest strength. C'mon man, read what I say.



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by wbtfg » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:17 am

bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:12 am
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:51 am
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:41 am
Ash did great his first few years.

I don't think most people truly understand how bad/chaotic the last few years of his tenure were. On field, off field, it was bad. Very little conditioning, disrespect for the HC, team didn't get along, failed drug tests but no recourse...it was a damn disaster.

Choate is the best HC we've had, except for maybe the coaching aspect. What he has done with our recruiting, strength and conditioning, nutrition, is all top tier P5 stuff. I'm not sure he'll ever be a top tier X's and O's coach (which is fine, Dabo Swinney isn't either), but he's a damn good coach who has turned this program around in short time. This team, these kids, they never quit. Never. That's on Choate. An Ash team that was down by 20 to the Griz would've never come back, and that's a fact.
Do you belong to QB Club? If not, you might have a different opinion on his x and o knowledge.
I mean, compared to me he's a savant!

I didn't say he was bad in that area at all! Just that it's not his greatest strength. C'mon man, read what I say.
Defensively, choate is an expert coach. Both in terms of teaching teaching technique as well as x/o schematics.



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by HelenaCat95 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:27 am

wbtfg wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:17 am
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:12 am
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:51 am
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:41 am
Ash did great his first few years.

I don't think most people truly understand how bad/chaotic the last few years of his tenure were. On field, off field, it was bad. Very little conditioning, disrespect for the HC, team didn't get along, failed drug tests but no recourse...it was a damn disaster.

Choate is the best HC we've had, except for maybe the coaching aspect. What he has done with our recruiting, strength and conditioning, nutrition, is all top tier P5 stuff. I'm not sure he'll ever be a top tier X's and O's coach (which is fine, Dabo Swinney isn't either), but he's a damn good coach who has turned this program around in short time. This team, these kids, they never quit. Never. That's on Choate. An Ash team that was down by 20 to the Griz would've never come back, and that's a fact.
Do you belong to QB Club? If not, you might have a different opinion on his x and o knowledge.
I mean, compared to me he's a savant!

I didn't say he was bad in that area at all! Just that it's not his greatest strength. C'mon man, read what I say.
Defensively, choate is an expert coach. Both in terms of teaching teaching technique as well as x/o schematics.
This!!! Choate knows A LOT about defensive schemes, but the teaching part is crucial. It doesn't matter what the coaches know, it's what the players know, and how they can execute it and how quickly - and I think Choate is very good with this...especially defensively.



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by bobcat99 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:55 am

wbtfg wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:17 am
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:12 am
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:51 am
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:41 am
Ash did great his first few years.

I don't think most people truly understand how bad/chaotic the last few years of his tenure were. On field, off field, it was bad. Very little conditioning, disrespect for the HC, team didn't get along, failed drug tests but no recourse...it was a damn disaster.

Choate is the best HC we've had, except for maybe the coaching aspect. What he has done with our recruiting, strength and conditioning, nutrition, is all top tier P5 stuff. I'm not sure he'll ever be a top tier X's and O's coach (which is fine, Dabo Swinney isn't either), but he's a damn good coach who has turned this program around in short time. This team, these kids, they never quit. Never. That's on Choate. An Ash team that was down by 20 to the Griz would've never come back, and that's a fact.
Do you belong to QB Club? If not, you might have a different opinion on his x and o knowledge.
I mean, compared to me he's a savant!

I didn't say he was bad in that area at all! Just that it's not his greatest strength. C'mon man, read what I say.
Defensively, choate is an expert coach. Both in terms of teaching teaching technique as well as x/o schematics.
Teaching I would agree with.

In terms of schematics, I think if he was what I consider to be top tier (small list imo!) we would've been ranked higher and not had the 3rd down issues we did.

Again, good to very good, just not what I would consider as in the top tier.



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by Cataholic » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:50 pm

bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:12 am
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:51 am
bobcat99 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:41 am
Ash did great his first few years.

I don't think most people truly understand how bad/chaotic the last few years of his tenure were. On field, off field, it was bad. Very little conditioning, disrespect for the HC, team didn't get along, failed drug tests but no recourse...it was a damn disaster.

Choate is the best HC we've had, except for maybe the coaching aspect. What he has done with our recruiting, strength and conditioning, nutrition, is all top tier P5 stuff. I'm not sure he'll ever be a top tier X's and O's coach (which is fine, Dabo Swinney isn't either), but he's a damn good coach who has turned this program around in short time. This team, these kids, they never quit. Never. That's on Choate. An Ash team that was down by 20 to the Griz would've never come back, and that's a fact.
Do you belong to QB Club? If not, you might have a different opinion on his x and o knowledge.
I mean, compared to me he's a savant!

I didn't say he was bad in that area at all! Just that it's not his greatest strength. C'mon man, read what I say.
Chill out dude. I never stated that you said he was bad... I only said the QB Club might add a different perspective on his level of x and o knowledge. Like you just said: “C’MON MAN, READ WHAT I SAY”!



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by Helcat72 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:46 pm

I think that Choate's best quality is relating to players and evaluating talent and coaches. He may know the X's and O's too, but he lets his coaches coach. He takes care of the program and culture stuff....makes sure the engine runs smooth. He also has a sh*%tload of contacts in the P5 that he can draw expertise and talent from.


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Re: Choate year 4

Post by utucats » Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:29 pm

I think Choate has articulated himself perfectly for the college level. I get fired up listening to him talk about football. I can only imagine the effect he’d have on a 20 year old kid in the locker room pregame. When you hear the way his graduating players talk about him you can see exactly what I’m talking about. IMO, that is a big difference between him and the previous staff.

I think that same attribute explains a lot of his recruiting success.


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Re: Choate year 4

Post by catatac » Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:44 pm

superbobcat wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:38 am
I really liked And respected Coach Ash, but from a player attitude perspective, he ran his course and it was just time. Coach Choate has to change the mentality and he has done just that.
Agree 100%. I was a big fan of Rob Ash, and I will always remind people of just how successful he was here when we won the Big Sky title three years on a row and made several playoff appearances along with some playoff wins. Nobody can take that away from him and I think he should always be proud of that stretch.

As for how it ended, I've never seen quite the collapse like what we witnessed when he completely lost control of the defense and eventually the entire team. Still scratching my head on how that could have happened. You just get the feeling it could never happen under Choate but I suppose you never know that with absolute certainty.


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Re: Choate year 4

Post by codecat » Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:35 pm

catatac wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:44 pm
superbobcat wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:38 am
I really liked And respected Coach Ash, but from a player attitude perspective, he ran his course and it was just time. Coach Choate has to change the mentality and he has done just that.
Agree 100%. I was a big fan of Rob Ash, and I will always remind people of just how successful he was here when we won the Big Sky title three years on a row and made several playoff appearances along with some playoff wins. Nobody can take that away from him and I think he should always be proud of that stretch.

As for how it ended, I've never seen quite the collapse like what we witnessed when he completely lost control of the defense and eventually the entire team. Still scratching my head on how that could have happened. You just get the feeling it could never happen under Choate but I suppose you never know that with absolute certainty.
I agree with you about coach Ash, and it is a bit of a puzzle on how things crashed. I pretty much felt it was a defensive recruiting issue of setting sights a notch too high and missing those players and then being too late on the ones he should would have gone after had his sights been so high, as well as taking some chances on players that he might not have if he had not been in a position of having the pressure to make deeper playoff runs than he did. Colter pretty much put these thoughts out there, about the collapse of the defense, in a piece in later 2015 or early 2016. Generally it is the booster support/money that fuels a program and heavily influences who is hired and fired, so essentially any coach can and will most likely be fired after 8-9 years of not making deeper playoff runs. Looking back, it seems that Ash's lack of experience at higher levels may have hurt his recruiting as well. As far as how the discipline issues played out, my believe is that can happen to any team with declining success, especially when it happens on one side of the ball as it did with our defense, and usually doesn't happen in the first 3-4 years of a coach's tenure when there is building that is showing signs of success. Most people with a few years that have changed the color of their hair know from experience that it takes discipline to achiever ones goals, and even more discipline to maintain and stay the course when things are not going well.


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