South gym roof collapse

[3-7-77]

MSU's buildings can kill you quicker than UM's I guess: https://www.kulr8.com/news/high-levels- ... be57f.html

Read your article. Only had one or two classes in the building over the years. Maybe I can get some bucks for the cough I've developed lately. What is really upsetting, after I found out what the old building name was (Women's Center), is that this place housed a day care at least since 1970.

[StatedImprovement]

I thought MSU was an Engineering School, as well as Architectural School. I know Bozeman is a relatively heavy snow area. Are both schools fully accredited? Just joking.
Looks like whomever was the Architect and whomever did the Engineering have a lot to answer for in the coming months.
Freaky winter, no chinooks for the past month. Go figure, with Bozeman on the EASTSLOPES of the Rocky Mountains, no EASTSLOPE chinook winds(emphasis for those on the school board, and outlanders).

MSU's buildings can kill you quicker than UM's I guess: https://www.kulr8.com/news/high-levels- ... be57f.html

I doubt the engineers and architects of record (who may or may not have been MSU grads) are still practicing. I guess we'll find out eventually.

What a mess.

So....What's the actual score?
How many died in that accident?

[msufaithful]

Amen that it happened at 2 AM! My son plays Bball in there quite often. He, his fellow students, staff and the school are EXTREMELEY FORTUNATE!

I know it's been there for a long long time. If it has been there since 1973 that's ~46 years, it may be that it isn't a design or construction issue but rather a maintenance/inspection issue. It could simply have been a fluke as well. Although there is a hell of a lot of snow in Bozeman, I'm guessing over the years there has been more at times. The cause is something that most likely will be able to be determined I believe. I wish them luck in their investigation and whatever protocols that come of this that will prevent these kind of things from happening in the future.

second that AMEN!! FEELING EXTREMELEY FORTUNATE! football team was in there last Saturday practicing.

[catatac]

Amen that it happened at 2 AM! My son plays Bball in there quite often. He, his fellow students, staff and the school are EXTREMELEY FORTUNATE!

I know it's been there for a long long time. If it has been there since 1973 that's ~46 years, it may be that it isn't a design or construction issue but rather a maintenance/inspection issue. It could simply have been a fluke as well. Although there is a hell of a lot of snow in Bozeman, I'm guessing over the years there has been more at times. The cause is something that most likely will be able to be determined I believe. I wish them luck in their investigation and whatever protocols that come of this that will prevent these kind of things from happening in the future.

second that AMEN!! FEELING EXTREMELEY FORTUNATE! football team was in there last Saturday practicing.

Seriously? Jesus, can you imagine if this would have killed a bunch of football players or any students for that matter.......

[St George]

I thought MSU was an Engineering School, as well as Architectural School. I know Bozeman is a relatively heavy snow area. Are both schools fully accredited? Just joking.
Looks like whomever was the Architect and whomever did the Engineering have a lot to answer for in the coming months.
Freaky winter, no chinooks for the past month. Go figure, with Bozeman on the EASTSLOPES of the Rocky Mountains, no EASTSLOPE chinook winds(emphasis for those on the school board, and outlanders).

So many Architects and Engineers design to the minimum allowed by code, mainly due to budget. Recently the building codes increased the design requirements for snow loads. So any buildings designed and constructed before that code change should be reviewed.

[SACCAT]

MSU now worried about North Gym...Knock them both down and build indoor practice facility...

[Team10]

MSU now worried about North Gym...Knock them both down and build indoor practice facility...

If only the north and south gyms weren't separated by indoor tennis courts, and racquetball courts, I'd say bulldoze it all and put up a big indoor facility.

[5yearfreshman]

North, South and tennis courts are all the same construction. No way it will meet new seismic codes. It was a cheep, poorly designed building from the start and a bulldozer is the best solution. I would bet money all the 1973 construction comes down.

[Bobcat4Ever]

The measured snow depth at the two closest stations (MSU and Bozeman 1.5 SSE) was 31.0 inches and 29.0 inches at the latest readings before the collapse. That's a lot more snow than Bozeman has had on the ground for a long time. The maximum snow depth measured during last year's snowy winter was about 19 inches. On Monday the snow water equivalent at Bozeman 1.5 SSE was measured at 5.24 inches. That's a lot of weight, but not beyond what the building should have been designed for.

Due to the lack of Chinooks and recent very cold temperatures and heavy snowfall, it makes one wonder if the drains were properly removing any melt water. If the drains were frozen, the water load could have been greater.

[94VegasCat]

Would I be wrong to assume that there should be some insurance money involved in replacing the lost facilities. I know some have mentioned that we should be making lemonade from this incident. (Thank God, no one was hurt)

Use the raised money and the insurance money to make MSU students and athletes better served by useful facilities.

[wbtfg]

Would I be wrong to assume that there should be some insurance money involved in replacing the lost facilities. I know some have mentioned that we should be making lemonade from this incident. (Thank God, no one was hurt)

Use the raised money and the insurance money to make MSU students and athletes better served by useful facilities.

It would be really cool to have an indoor turf gym.

[Bobcat4Ever]

On the 22nd of February there was a magnitude 3.8 earthquake centered near Manhattan. I read that it was felt by many in Bozeman? Did anyone here feel it? I know that's a small quake, but maybe not to a building that was on edge anyway. There have been some aftershocks as well.

[3-7-77]

You make two good points. Earthquake activity in the greater Yellowstone area. Huh. Go figure. Maybe it pushed this building beyond its tolerances,given the heavy snow. Which brings me to a question, and honest question, about snow removal from flat roofs. Is it done routinely? Wbtfg made a cryptic reference about the new high school having a flat roof. I realize this years snowfall is an outlier value, but are roofs cleared of snow? More than one structure with a flat roof in danger of collapse, statewide. My neighbor, who doesn't shovel her sidewalk, had her roof shoveled.

[catsrback76]

You make two good points. Earthquake activity in the greater Yellowstone area. Huh. Go figure. Maybe it pushed this building beyond its tolerances,given the heavy snow. Which brings me to a question, and honest question, about snow removal from flat roofs. Is it done routinely? Wbtfg made a cryptic reference about the new high school having a flat roof. I realize this years snowfall is an outlier value, but are roofs cleared of snow? More than one structure with a flat roof in danger of collapse, statewide. My neighbor, who doesn't shovel her sidewalk, had her roof shoveled.

My brother is an architect and has made the case that flat roofs can carry the load if they are constructed properly and have adequate drainage. As mentioned above, it is possible that the older construction from 73 was not adequate for this kind of situation. It likely has to do with how her house was constructed, how it drains liquid, and was it built according to best code.

[Bobcat4Ever]

According to KULR-TV, MSU told them the design snowload for roofs is a minimum of 30 lbs. per square foot. The measured snow water equivalent at the Bozeman 1.5 SSE station (not much more than a mile away and at nearly the same elevation) on March 1 was 5.24 inches. A quick calculation yields a load of 27.26 lbs. per square foot. That's pretty close to the limit.

[St George]

Table 2.2: Output from Snow Load Finder-Belgrade

Station Type Lat Long Elev Snow Load
Bozeman 6 W Exp. Farm NWS 45.67 -111.16 4775 29.8
Bozeman MSU NWS 45.66 -111.05 4913 42.3
Belgrade Airport NWS 45.79 -111.15 4427 33.3
point of interest na 45.74 -111.13 4541 31.5

Snow Loads for Structural Design in Montana (Revised 2004)

[bertram]

[FTG247365]

This is awesome.

Mountains, Minds and Open Gyms!

[FTG247365]

Went to the Wilson School Gym in Bozeman this morning for some YMCA basketball action. I was blown away the gym that was built in 36'-37'(someone correct me if I'm wrong) has a slightly curved roof(positive drainage) , extremely beefy steel truss's, solid concrete walls with windows, has lasted longer than a flat roof building, weird. Why over time did construction get away from the common sense approach and go to the cost savings only approach?

[AFCAT]

Went to the Wilson School Gym in Bozeman this morning for some YMCA basketball action. I was blown away the gym that was built in 36'-37'(someone correct me if I'm wrong) has a slightly curved roof(positive drainage) , extremely beefy steel truss's, solid concrete walls with windows, has lasted longer than a flat roof building, weird. Why over time did construction get away from the common sense approach and go to the cost savings only approach?

I think you just answered your own question. The reason is money.