Wagner

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Hawks86
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Re: Wagner

Post by Hawks86 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:41 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:23 pm
desmond1957 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:11 pm
As mentioned, last year we ran for 250yards/game largely because Murray was one heck of a broken field runner because no one could a clear shot at him. But he's gone for this year and based on how he performed in his first game against the best team we'll face this year IMO Rovig should start, Troy should recuperate.After the asschewing I'm sure the Cats got all week I have no doubt that at the end of this season we'll look back at the Wagner game as the one that turned the season around. I still see at least a 7 win season with a good shot at 8.
If MSU is going to switch to Rovig at QB, then it's going to take a great effort by the team to shift from a run-oriented team to a much more pass-oriented team. Rovig is not a threat to run the ball. Can he run when it's there? Yes. Can he keep the ball on zone-read and sprint 60 yards for a TD? No. Therefore, Rovig needs to be a strong-armed, dead-eyed passer just for starters, while the offense needs to morph into 50-50 run/pass team that probably runs Power instead of some form of RPO. My head is spinning just writing this down. This also has an affect on the defense.

I'm not a football expert, so please explain to me how MSU goes about doing this or provide some examples of teams successfully shifting from running one style of offense to a completely different style.
And do it in a week or two during the season.


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Re: Wagner

Post by 91catAlum » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:42 pm

kwcat wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:30 pm
cater to Tucker, can it be successful? They had a couple drives where he aired it out and moved it down the field, and than they went back to short passes to the sideline that the defenses know we are going to do. Why not continue throwing it down the field? I know he thew an interception, but it was his first game.
The ic Tucker threw was a quick out for which the db was looking. He will need to learn to look the dbs off of routes and or learn to pump fake. Haven't seen a qb do this since Prukopl We will see if he gets better Saturday.

TA shouldn't probably even see the field with his injury.
That was the first one he threw. He threw 2.


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Re: Wagner

Post by DriscollCat » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:05 pm

mtgrizfankb wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:26 pm
DriscollCat wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:38 pm
mtdoc wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:30 pm
5dimes, an overseas sport betting book, has the CATS as 21.5 point favorites over Wagner.
um is 6.5 point dogs over at W. Illinois. I'm a little surprised they are such a big underdog but they will have a tough time blocking that dline.
Yeah, oddly, they didn’t really block them in the Drake game. I mean that literally too. If you listen to Tootel and Nuanez, Colter saw what I saw, which was virtually every pass play was a scramble and the only real successful run play was on a broken play, where the snap was muffed and Eastwood found a different hole.

So, somehow they were successful without much out of the o line last week. We’ll see what kind of difference a better d line makes against them. Who knows.
It wasn't a broken play. It was a 4th down, low snap yes but the D was in a all out run blitz. It was either stopped for nothing or a home run because there was 9 in the box. Eastwood went through the designed gap. UNI had what was supposed to be the second best DL in the MVFC. not like UM has not seen good DL. Drake also had a very good and experienced DL. Doesn't really matter as I think any D could get through the Griz OL at this point. only hope for a griz running game is to try and get outside and use speed and WRs to block. That's somewhat what our passing game has been. A ton of RPO and swing passes out the backfield

I’m sure you were watching closer than I was. I think our assessment is basically the same. The griz were able to put something together without any significant blocking, does that change against a good d line, I think probably not by too much. Sounds like the UNI line was a good test of that with positive results for the griz.

Those third and shorts are going to be tougher than ever with Khalen Saunders on the other side. It will definitely be interesting to see the griz against a shared opponent.



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Re: Wagner

Post by 84CatGrad » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:21 pm

Cats 20, Seahawks 10.



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Re: Wagner

Post by Anacomando » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:53 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:07 pm
MSU is a run-oriented team. The fact that the RBs have struggled mightily is a big concern going forward. I realize WIU and SDSU were very good in the front seven, but it should be self-evident that MSU's offensive line, with four returning starters and three senior TEs, shouldn't be completely shut down for two straight games on gives to the RBs on running plays.

A lot of talk on here about WRs and QBs, but the biggest disappointment in my opinion has been the OL. What happened? Were WIU and SDSU just that good that were completely able to exploit MSU due to it's inability to either pass in the first half of both games?

Does MSU have a better chance of seeing Andersen expand on his ability to pass the ball like he did first drive of the second half vs. WIU than seeing Rovig develop into a RPO QB?
Yeah, this is right on as the huge issue that people were not expecting. I knew SDSU would be ready, but WIU also dominated. I'll give the O-line this week and next week to right the ship. Overall the offense is weak with a very good defense; however, this all averages to a team that is middle-of-the-road. Hence, a 6-5 team at best! I think the next two games are games the Cats should win. The key season making/breaking game is EWU. That tells us where this team is at! I like Rovig and he made some good throws. Keep him at QB.



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Re: Wagner

Post by DriscollCat » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:16 pm

Anacomando wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:53 pm
Hence, a 6-5 team at best!
I sure hope this is not the best we can do. We certainly can’t go through a fourth losing season in a row.



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Re: Wagner

Post by 91catAlum » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:08 pm

BleedingBLue wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:00 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:29 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:07 pm
MSU is a run-oriented team. The fact that the RBs have struggled mightily is a big concern going forward. I realize WIU and SDSU were very good in the front seven, but it should be self-evident that MSU's offensive line, with four returning starters and three senior TEs, shouldn't be completely shut down for two straight games on gives to the RBs on running plays.

A lot of talk on here about WRs and QBs, but the biggest disappointment in my opinion has been the OL. What happened? Were WIU and SDSU just that good that were completely able to exploit MSU due to it's inability to either pass in the first half of both games?

Does MSU have a better chance of seeing Andersen expand on his ability to pass the ball like he did first drive of the second half vs. WIU than seeing Rovig develop into a RPO QB?
Is it really just the O-line? Or do we also have an issue at RB?

Everybody knew we couldn't throw last year, too - but we still rushed for 250 a game and led the conference, often facing 8-9 men in the box. With 4 of the same 5 guys on the O-line.

Last year, Murray usually ran for 100+ last year, and Lasane often had a big game as well. As did TA.
First game this year, TA managed 130 yards (or whatever it was), but the backs did nothing.
Plug in Rovig, and the backs still do nothing.

I think we're a bit too young at RB, which is why I'd like to see TA move there rather than LB.
I personally think some of it is on the O line and some of it is on the backs. Barkley showed what he can be with the beautiful move on his TD run at SDSU. He saw the hole open up, juked and cut right through it. The problem is that kind of vision isn't being shown consistently from the young backs. There are 2 runs in particular from the WIU game that we got about 3 yards on the run and a hole to the left between Brott and Tui was wide open. Saunders had pushed Neale right and taken on the RG (cant remember who that is) as well. The LBs were flowing toward that side as well and the back still tried to hit the hole that was closing between Neale and RG. A quick cut left would have been a big gain as Tui was blocking a LB down the field and Brott had blown his DE off the line away from the play. There were a couple similar plays with TA on keepers as well, and there were some plays that the line just got pushed back.
Relevant quote from coach Army, on 406sports.com. Sounds like he thinks it's not the O line's fault:

“What were one-yard runs should have probably been four-, five-, six-yard runs” against SDSU, Armstrong said. “I actually thought when we called runs that (we) did a pretty good job of denting the defense at the point of attack. We just didn’t do a great job of pressing it from the backfield.

“We have to get somebody going in the backfield."


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Re: Wagner

Post by onceacat » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:35 pm

91catAlum wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:08 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:00 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:29 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:07 pm
MSU is a run-oriented team. The fact that the RBs have struggled mightily is a big concern going forward. I realize WIU and SDSU were very good in the front seven, but it should be self-evident that MSU's offensive line, with four returning starters and three senior TEs, shouldn't be completely shut down for two straight games on gives to the RBs on running plays.

A lot of talk on here about WRs and QBs, but the biggest disappointment in my opinion has been the OL. What happened? Were WIU and SDSU just that good that were completely able to exploit MSU due to it's inability to either pass in the first half of both games?

Does MSU have a better chance of seeing Andersen expand on his ability to pass the ball like he did first drive of the second half vs. WIU than seeing Rovig develop into a RPO QB?
Is it really just the O-line? Or do we also have an issue at RB?

Everybody knew we couldn't throw last year, too - but we still rushed for 250 a game and led the conference, often facing 8-9 men in the box. With 4 of the same 5 guys on the O-line.

Last year, Murray usually ran for 100+ last year, and Lasane often had a big game as well. As did TA.
First game this year, TA managed 130 yards (or whatever it was), but the backs did nothing.
Plug in Rovig, and the backs still do nothing.

I think we're a bit too young at RB, which is why I'd like to see TA move there rather than LB.
I personally think some of it is on the O line and some of it is on the backs. Barkley showed what he can be with the beautiful move on his TD run at SDSU. He saw the hole open up, juked and cut right through it. The problem is that kind of vision isn't being shown consistently from the young backs. There are 2 runs in particular from the WIU game that we got about 3 yards on the run and a hole to the left between Brott and Tui was wide open. Saunders had pushed Neale right and taken on the RG (cant remember who that is) as well. The LBs were flowing toward that side as well and the back still tried to hit the hole that was closing between Neale and RG. A quick cut left would have been a big gain as Tui was blocking a LB down the field and Brott had blown his DE off the line away from the play. There were a couple similar plays with TA on keepers as well, and there were some plays that the line just got pushed back.
Relevant quote from coach Army, on 406sports.com. Sounds like he thinks it's not the O line's fault:

“What were one-yard runs should have probably been four-, five-, six-yard runs” against SDSU, Armstrong said. “I actually thought when we called runs that (we) did a pretty good job of denting the defense at the point of attack. We just didn’t do a great job of pressing it from the backfield.

“We have to get somebody going in the backfield."
I can see that with a couple of true Frosh back there. Which has me scratching my head on the logic of having TA at QB & Jonsen at WR...Can Jonsen not make reads? Can he not be a zone option RB? I'm really struggling to understand what it is that we are trying to do on offense.



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Re: Wagner

Post by GoldstoneCat » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:02 am

Bobcatsinmso wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:09 pm
bobcatfan4life wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:34 pm
CelticCat wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:25 pm
The coaches have a pretty serious question to answer for this game - who do we want to be on offense.

Do we go back to what we've done, a running QB system who hopefully can start to beat defense a bit with his arm. Because our running game is going to get stuffed until someone can pass the damn ball.

Or do we just switch gears, reset and go with Rovig and try to become a more balanced, dynamic offense and let Troy loose somewhere else.

I'm worried we are going to look exactly like we did against WIU, which will probably be enough to win, but not solve any problems we have.

I was thinking the same thing...who are we on offense? Right now, it seems we are catered to a running QB, such as Chris Murray or Troy Anderson. If the coaches aren't going to change that up, why not actually give Travis a chance at QB? I understand that he has been recovering from an ankle injury, but he is playing full time at receiver, why not try him at QB for more than one play. YOu are changing everything with Tucker because he doesn't run like Troy or Travis, but may have a decent arm.

So my question fo ryou all is this...why not give Travis a shot at QB if you want to stick with having an offenses catered to a running QB? WE know Troy can play other positions but if you arent going to change the offense to cater to Tucker, can it be successful? They had a couple drives where he aired it out and moved it down the field, and than they went back to short passes to the sideline that the defenses know we are going to do. Why not continue throwing it down the field? I know he thew an interception, but it was his first game.

Is Travis the better option if we are sticking with the same offense? Just curious what you think? i know some have ansewred this already but i really am curious why he hasnt really been given a chance at QB
:goodpost:

I would really like to see TJ get a full quarter or several series, I think his talent set is more suited to QB play. Most certainly there are a lot of fans who would agree.
I'm on the TJ bandwagon as well, he was brought here to mentor and backup our dual threat QB, we have a glaring need for a dual threat QB, what are we missing here? Obviously the staff saw reason to go with rovig over jonsen, but without the qb run game in half 1, it was a discombobulated mess. Guess we'll see.



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Re: Wagner

Post by iaafan » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:58 pm

I suggest getting on whoever’s under center’s bandwagon. Andersen, Jonsen, Rovig, Bauman, Beltran, Natee.



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Re: Wagner

Post by Anacomando » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:22 am

Wagner is a little below average. The Cats should win; if the game is within 7 points, then the Cats and this staff have issues. Cats 28 - Wagner 14. I would expect Rovig to start again.



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Re: Wagner

Post by DriscollCat » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:45 am

Anacomando wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:22 am
Wagner is a little below average. The Cats should win; if the game is within 7 points, then the Cats and this staff have issues. Cats 28 - Wagner 14. I would expect Rovig to start again.
Listen to the Choate press conference from yesterday. It sounded like it was TA for sure.



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Re: Wagner

Post by catsrback76 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:00 am

I'm going to say the defence holds Wagner to 10 and the Offense struggles to 24. Cats 24 Wagner 10



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Re: Wagner

Post by iaafan » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:10 am

MSU will score at least 30



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Re: Wagner

Post by BigBruceBaker » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:30 am

MSU 27 Wagner 17


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Re: Wagner

Post by Joe Bobcat » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:48 am

MSU 33 Wagner 10


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Re: Wagner

Post by CelticCat » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:08 am

Wagner DL is big and veteran. Our OL has in my opinion underwhelmed.

We have a hard time moving the ball, but defense forces a turnover or two and sets us up for an easy score.

24-13 Cats.


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Re: Wagner

Post by BleedingBLue » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:14 am

CelticCat wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:08 am
Wagner DL is big and veteran. Our OL has in my opinion underwhelmed.

We have a hard time moving the ball, but defense forces a turnover or two and sets us up for an easy score.

24-13 Cats.
I think a lot of us have been thinking the same thing on the o line. I watched the replay of the WIU game last night and they actually played pretty damn well. There were running lanes all game. I also noticed our backs get hit and go backwards. There was nobody taking a hit and still lunging forward for 1 or 2 more yards. No broken tackles either outside of TA. Kind of like Army said the other day, some of those runs should have been 4, 5 or 6 yards.



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Re: Wagner

Post by BleedingBLue » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:15 am

I think we see a full game effort similar to half 2 of the WIU game.

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Re: Wagner

Post by CelticCat » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:21 am

BleedingBLue wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:14 am
CelticCat wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:08 am
Wagner DL is big and veteran. Our OL has in my opinion underwhelmed.

We have a hard time moving the ball, but defense forces a turnover or two and sets us up for an easy score.

24-13 Cats.
I think a lot of us have been thinking the same thing on the o line. I watched the replay of the WIU game last night and they actually played pretty damn well. There were running lanes all game. I also noticed our backs get hit and go backwards. There was nobody taking a hit and still lunging forward for 1 or 2 more yards. No broken tackles either outside of TA. Kind of like Army said the other day, some of those runs should have been 4, 5 or 6 yards.
We need to get the RBs involved, plain and simple. No one has stepped up but no one has really been given a chance to get into a flow. We have a bunch of young guys back there but they aren't going to get any experience when they only get 5 carries a game.

I have no problem if we keep running but it can't just be Troy Andersen left, Troy Andersen right. And we have to get something going in the passing game, it doesn't have to be bombs.

Colter said it best, SDSU didn't respect our passing game. They had 9 in the box. I imagine a team like Wagner probably isn't confident enough in their guys to stack 9 in there but we are going to see more of the same, and Murray isn't here to save us.

If Andersen can't soften defenses up with his arm we are going to be lucky to win 5 games. This is the game we need to show everyone we have a bit of teeth in the passing game.


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