The Bobcat Nation

A lot of people like Kramer and many do not. He has made the Cats competitive and the stands are full. Excitement is back at MSU. But let's look at Kramer's coaching record:

Including this year (his 12th in the BSC) Kramer is now 66-69 overall and 43-41 in the BSC. He has only one year with more than 7 wins (1997, 12-2). His last three years at EWU (when all of the players were his kids) he was 13-20 overall, 7-15 BSC). By comparison; in Wulff's 5+ years at EWU he is 34-23 overall and 23-17 in the BSC.

So, how good is Kramer? His winning percentage is worse than Hysell's was (just comparing MSU numbers).

I don't care whether he wins or not. Kramer's a great guy. State should keep him FOREVER.

hey gfg...why don't you go suck on a bowl full of condiments...dingleberries to you...with your buddy boobie...

couloir41 wrote:hey gfg...why don't you go suck on a bowl full of condiments...dingleberries to you...with your buddy boobie...

What? I show respect for my third favorite Montana Coach, behind Coaches Hauck and VanDiest, and you give me this? Coach Kramer has EARNED my RESPECT and I am not afraid to sat so.

gtapp wrote:A lot of people like Kramer and many do not. He has made the Cats competitive and the stands are full. Excitement is back at MSU. But let's look at Kramer's coaching record:

Including this year (his 12th in the BSC) Kramer is now 66-69 overall and 43-41 in the BSC. He has only one year with more than 7 wins (1997, 12-2). His last three years at EWU (when all of the players were his kids) he was 13-20 overall, 7-15 BSC). By comparison; in Wulff's 5+ years at EWU he is 34-23 overall and 23-17 in the BSC.

So, how good is Kramer? His winning percentage is worse than Hysell's was (just comparing MSU numbers).

Don't even compare Kramer to Hysell. Kramers first few years were spent trying to clean up the garbage Hysell created.

Throw out 2000, and Kramer is 66-57 at MSU with a 43-23 BSC record. The Bobcat football program hit rock bottom at the end of 1999 and stayed there until early 2001. I'll admit that there were many times when I have been frustrated with Kramer and his style, but what we've done in his tenure is better than the 15 years before. Kramer did take us back to the playoffs, and I think most Bobcat fans respect him for that accomplishment.

Good post Bozbobcat! I too get frusterated with the Bobcats once in a while... but I certainly believe Coach Kramer has done a solid job for the Bobcats since he has been here. The record after the initial 0-11 season is solid... the stands are full and people are excited about Bobcat football! Next year will be an even more critical year for Coach Kramer as he will be in a legit rebuilding year... but the cupboard isn't empty. He adds class to the program... and a winning attitude... and is good for the university. He is easily the most dynamic and exciting coach this state has right now!

bobcatmaniac wrote:Don't even compare Kramer to Hysell. Kramers first few years were spent trying to clean up the garbage Hysell created.

Those two BSC championships won by Kramer were with a number of Hysell recruits.

"Turnquist, R. Johnson, Cordeiro, Elliott, Corey Smith, Quast, Diercks, Swaggert, Taylor, Montoya, Morasko.

Jamie Amicarella was also a Hysell recruit that was in Hysell's last class that trasfered to Colorado State and started for 3 years.

gtapp wrote:

bobcatmaniac wrote:Don't even compare Kramer to Hysell. Kramers first few years were spent trying to clean up the garbage Hysell created.

Those two BSC championships won by Kramer were with a number of Hysell recruits.

Not the least of which was Ryan Johnson who ran the rock. This next year we will see who Kramer has recruited at QB, RB and the skill positions. This next year we will really get a look at Kramer's gang.

He represents the University well and I like him.

catsrback76 wrote:

gtapp wrote:

bobcatmaniac wrote:Don't even compare Kramer to Hysell. Kramers first few years were spent trying to clean up the garbage Hysell created.

Those two BSC championships won by Kramer were with a number of Hysell recruits.

Not the least of which was Ryan Johnson who ran the rock. This next year we will see who Kramer has recruited at QB, RB and the skill positions. This next year we will really get a look at Kramer's gang.

He represents the University well and I like him.

we are looking at kramer recurits

lulay
Gatewood
murry
miller
roosivelt
grooves
dominik
bass
tyler lulay
brown

The questions are:

1. Do you think Kramer can take the Cats beyond 6-5 or 7-4. His history (12 seasons) would suggest no.

2. If no, are you OK with that level of success?

Quick question - slighly off topic...when I went to MSU (back before the stone age) in the 80's - Solumson (sp?) always complained about MSU's higher academic standards hurting us with recruiting. Back then, to play for MSU you needed something like a 19 or 20 on the ACT and/or a 2.5 GPA - to play for the griz (or the rest of the sky) you only needed a 2.0 or an 18 on the ACT. Is that still/was that ever the case?

gtapp wrote:The questions are:

1. Do you think Kramer can take the Cats beyond 6-5 or 7-4. His history (12 seasons) would suggest no.

He better prove it this year. No reason the talent he has in Bozeman right now, and the team he has built shouldnt merely make the playoffs, but advance in them. No excuses this year.

gtapp wrote:2. If no, are you OK with that level of success?

If this team does not advance in the playoffs, Kramer has some tough questions to answer. If he does not make the playoffs, then he is on the hot seat. A new coaching regime is not out of the question if this team does not make the playoffs.

If Kramer cant make the playoffs with this team, he probably wont make them anytime in the near future.

CatGrad89 wrote:Quick question - slighly off topic...when I went to MSU (back before the stone age) in the 80's - Solumson (sp?) always complained about MSU's higher academic standards hurting us with recruiting. Back then, to play for MSU you needed something like a 19 or 20 on the ACT and/or a 2.5 GPA - to play for the griz (or the rest of the sky) you only needed a 2.0 or an 18 on the ACT. Is that still/was that ever the case?

Admissions standards to UM and MSU are most likely exactly the same. And not a jab against UM, but I dont think there are as many classes to hide your student athletes in at Bozeman. There is no between semester session to "get your grades back" in Bozeman. So as I think it takes the same kind of student to get into either school, I dont think it takes the same kind of student to stay active in both schools.

gtapp wrote:

bobcatmaniac wrote:Don't even compare Kramer to Hysell. Kramers first few years were spent trying to clean up the garbage Hysell created.

Those two BSC championships won by Kramer were with a number of Hysell recruits.

"Turnquist, R. Johnson, Cordeiro, Elliott, Corey Smith, Quast, Diercks, Swaggert, Taylor, Montoya, Morasko.

Jamie Amicarella was also a Hysell recruit that was in Hysell's last class that trasfered to Colorado State and started for 3 years.

ummmm, ya, but what about the other 50 kids?

Cat Pride wrote:

CatGrad89 wrote:Quick question - slighly off topic...when I went to MSU (back before the stone age) in the 80's - Solumson (sp?) always complained about MSU's higher academic standards hurting us with recruiting. Back then, to play for MSU you needed something like a 19 or 20 on the ACT and/or a 2.5 GPA - to play for the griz (or the rest of the sky) you only needed a 2.0 or an 18 on the ACT. Is that still/was that ever the case?

Admissions standards to UM and MSU are most likely exactly the same. And not a jab against UM, but I dont think there are as many classes to hide your student athletes in at Bozeman. There is no between semester session to "get your grades back" in Bozeman. So as I think it takes the same kind of student to get into either school, I dont think it takes the same kind of student to stay active in both schools.

Not sure about the entrance standards, but they did have a higher standard for staying in athletics once they were there. I think they had to maintain a 2.2 or 2.5 or something in that range.

bobcatmaniac wrote:Don't even compare Kramer to Hysell. Kramers first few years were spent trying to clean up the garbage Hysell created.

Kramer made most of Hysell's guys quit! Kramer made his own mess. Kramer's 1st year he had what 35 players return? He brought in 45 new players- one of which was Dunn the answer to all the questions... Give me a break! Kramer brought in Azimi, Dunn, had 4 offensive linemen start that never started before, all first time starting DBs & LBs, and the list goes on. Kramer created his own mess in the 0-11 year, and it had little to nothing to do with Hysell. Most people know that Kramer made all of Hysell's guys quit; hell he even tried to get Ryan Johnson to quit! Hysell may not have been the best coach, but the debacle in 2000 was Kramer's fault not Hysell's.

Hysells boys weren't tough enough, that is why they quit.

G.W.Bush wrote:

bobcatmaniac wrote:Don't even compare Kramer to Hysell. Kramers first few years were spent trying to clean up the garbage Hysell created.

Kramer made most of Hysell's guys quit! Kramer made his own mess. Kramer's 1st year he had what 35 players return? He brought in 45 new players- one of which was Dunn the answer to all the questions... Give me a break! Kramer brought in Azimi, Dunn, had 4 offensive linemen start that never started before, all first time starting DBs & LBs, and the list goes on. Kramer created his own mess in the 0-11 year, and it had little to nothing to do with Hysell. Most people know that Kramer made all of Hysell's guys quit; hell he even tried to get Ryan Johnson to quit! Hysell may not have been the best coach, but the debacle in 2000 was Kramer's fault not Hysell's.

What happened just a mere 1-2 years after he cleaned house? 2 straight Big Sky Championships? Hmmmmmm.

G.W.Bush wrote:

bobcatmaniac wrote:Don't even compare Kramer to Hysell. Kramers first few years were spent trying to clean up the garbage Hysell created.

Kramer made most of Hysell's guys quit! Kramer made his own mess. Kramer's 1st year he had what 35 players return? He brought in 45 new players- one of which was Dunn the answer to all the questions... Give me a break! Kramer brought in Azimi, Dunn, had 4 offensive linemen start that never started before, all first time starting DBs & LBs, and the list goes on. Kramer created his own mess in the 0-11 year, and it had little to nothing to do with Hysell. Most people know that Kramer made all of Hysell's guys quit; hell he even tried to get Ryan Johnson to quit! Hysell may not have been the best coach, but the debacle in 2000 was Kramer's fault not Hysell's.

GW,
When a new coach comes into a program that has been struggling. And you've been hired to resurrect it, changes have to be made. I remember Kramer saying when he was hired that there was going to be a new work ethic, attitude needed by the players or they weren't going to last. Because I was a part of a switch in coaching staff when I played in college, I am willing to bet these kids simply didn't buy into Kramer's philosophy and chose to leave; Kramer did not force them to leave.

Aside from the fact that Kramer was critical of RJ for not playing when he was hurt, do you have any other facts to back up you comment? I have serious doubts that the most prolific running back in MSU history was being squeezed out.

Bottom line, when you take over a new program, things need to be shaken up if they haven't been working before. This is why I like Kramer. He has taken a team that wasn't attracting fans to the games, has had success recruiting quality players to a program that doesn't have the track record of our in-state rival, and has us competing for BSC championships, going to playoffs, rankings in the top 10.

I am a BIG fan of the BIG HUMAN