ESPN - Joe O'Brien

[Rich K]

The name of his book was Busted Bronco: From Addiction to Redemption.

Maybe he changed his mind. Happens all the time.

His drug use is responsible for the loss of his coaching career, and it resulted in him doing time in federal prison. Yet, years later he's apparently started using again. We don't know if he just recently suffered a relapse, or if he's been using all along. Either way though, I'd say that if you don't believe he's an addict, then I'm not sure who would be one.

You obviously know as well as I do that it really doesn't matter what you or I believe, it's what Joe believes. He may have changed his mind and decided he really wasn't THAT bad. That happens, sadly, a lot. Even if he does believe he's an addict, it doesn't mean he believes he needs to do something about it, and it doesn't mean he will actually do something about it. Do you want me to quote where you wrote that Joe had hit rock bottom? How did you know that? My crystal ball broke years ago.

[John K]

The name of his book was Busted Bronco: From Addiction to Redemption.

Maybe he changed his mind. Happens all the time.

His drug use is responsible for the loss of his coaching career, and it resulted in him doing time in federal prison. Yet, years later he's apparently started using again. We don't know if he just recently suffered a relapse, or if he's been using all along. Either way though, I'd say that if you don't believe he's an addict, then I'm not sure who would be one.

You obviously know as well as I do that it really doesn't matter what you or I believe, it's what Joe believes. He may have changed his mind and decided he really wasn't THAT bad. That happens, sadly, a lot. Even if he does believe he's an addict, it doesn't mean he believes he needs to do something about it, and it doesn't mean he will actually do something about it. Do you want me to quote where you wrote that Joe had hit rock bottom? How did you know that? My crystal ball broke years ago.

I'm certainly not an expert, and you are of course entitled to your opinion, but I'd say that you don't understand addiction very well. Lots of addicts are fully away that they are addicts, and do take steps to do something about it, and yet many of them still suffer repeated relapses. That is the very nature of addiction. I'm not saying that you have to feel sorry for him, whether or not he's an addict, but I just don't understand why you are so skeptical of that, when all of his behavior seems to be text book for someone who is an addict.

[Rich K]

The name of his book was Busted Bronco: From Addiction to Redemption.

Maybe he changed his mind. Happens all the time.

His drug use is responsible for the loss of his coaching career, and it resulted in him doing time in federal prison. Yet, years later he's apparently started using again. We don't know if he just recently suffered a relapse, or if he's been using all along. Either way though, I'd say that if you don't believe he's an addict, then I'm not sure who would be one.

You obviously know as well as I do that it really doesn't matter what you or I believe, it's what Joe believes. He may have changed his mind and decided he really wasn't THAT bad. That happens, sadly, a lot. Even if he does believe he's an addict, it doesn't mean he believes he needs to do something about it, and it doesn't mean he will actually do something about it. Do you want me to quote where you wrote that Joe had hit rock bottom? How did you know that? My crystal ball broke years ago.

I'm certainly not an expert, and you are of course entitled to your opinion, but I'd say that you don't understand addiction very well. Lots of addicts are fully away that they are addicts, and do take steps to do something about it, and yet many of them still suffer repeated relapses. That is the very nature of addiction. I'm not saying that you have to feel sorry for him, whether or not he's an addict, but I just don't understand why you are so skeptical of that, when all of his behavior seems to be text book for someone who is an addict.

The only opinion I stated was that only Joe's belief of whether or not he has an addiction is relevant. As to the statement of my skepticism I ask this question: If I am skeptical does that put me in the same boat as the good people of Simms that opposed his hiring?

[John K]

The name of his book was Busted Bronco: From Addiction to Redemption.

Maybe he changed his mind. Happens all the time.

His drug use is responsible for the loss of his coaching career, and it resulted in him doing time in federal prison. Yet, years later he's apparently started using again. We don't know if he just recently suffered a relapse, or if he's been using all along. Either way though, I'd say that if you don't believe he's an addict, then I'm not sure who would be one.

You obviously know as well as I do that it really doesn't matter what you or I believe, it's what Joe believes. He may have changed his mind and decided he really wasn't THAT bad. That happens, sadly, a lot. Even if he does believe he's an addict, it doesn't mean he believes he needs to do something about it, and it doesn't mean he will actually do something about it. Do you want me to quote where you wrote that Joe had hit rock bottom? How did you know that? My crystal ball broke years ago.

I'm certainly not an expert, and you are of course entitled to your opinion, but I'd say that you don't understand addiction very well. Lots of addicts are fully away that they are addicts, and do take steps to do something about it, and yet many of them still suffer repeated relapses. That is the very nature of addiction. I'm not saying that you have to feel sorry for him, whether or not he's an addict, but I just don't understand why you are so skeptical of that, when all of his behavior seems to be text book for someone who is an addict.

The only opinion I stated was that only Joe's belief of whether or not he has an addiction is relevant. As to the statement of my skepticism I ask this question: If I am skeptical does that put me in the same boat as the good people of Simms that opposed his hiring?

I think you're making my argument for me, better than I'm doing it myself. The people in Simms who opposed his hiring, likely did so because they believed him to be an addict, and thus quite possibly incapable of changing his behavior, or at least unlikely to do so on a long term basis.

[Hi-Line Bobcat]

The name of his book was Busted Bronco: From Addiction to Redemption.

Maybe he changed his mind. Happens all the time.

His drug use is responsible for the loss of his coaching career, and it resulted in him doing time in federal prison. Yet, years later he's apparently started using again. We don't know if he just recently suffered a relapse, or if he's been using all along. Either way though, I'd say that if you don't believe he's an addict, then I'm not sure who would be one.

You obviously know as well as I do that it really doesn't matter what you or I believe, it's what Joe believes. He may have changed his mind and decided he really wasn't THAT bad. That happens, sadly, a lot. Even if he does believe he's an addict, it doesn't mean he believes he needs to do something about it, and it doesn't mean he will actually do something about it. Do you want me to quote where you wrote that Joe had hit rock bottom? How did you know that? My crystal ball broke years ago.

I'm certainly not an expert, and you are of course entitled to your opinion, but I'd say that you don't understand addiction very well. Lots of addicts are fully away that they are addicts, and do take steps to do something about it, and yet many of them still suffer repeated relapses. That is the very nature of addiction. I'm not saying that you have to feel sorry for him, whether or not he's an addict, but I just don't understand why you are so skeptical of that, when all of his behavior seems to be text book for someone who is an addict.

I did some research about addiction this afternoon and I found some interesting things. The research I read implies addiction is actually a choice not a disease. The very basic levels of research I read, states that addicts aren't born with the disease or develop the disease without cause, instead after they use a drug the brain can actually change composition, and that is why many doctors call addiction a disease, which makes sense in doctor terms. They don't call it a disease in the sense it makes you use, they called it a disease because after you use a drug for long enough it actually can change the make up of your brain. I tend to agree with a lot of what I read and I found it very interesting. In my opinion, in today's world we are quick to use the term addict just to make the crime or action less violent or bad. I also believe in the term addicts, and I do think after someone uses for so long they are no longer capable of making a choice to stop.

[John K]

The name of his book was Busted Bronco: From Addiction to Redemption.

Maybe he changed his mind. Happens all the time.

His drug use is responsible for the loss of his coaching career, and it resulted in him doing time in federal prison. Yet, years later he's apparently started using again. We don't know if he just recently suffered a relapse, or if he's been using all along. Either way though, I'd say that if you don't believe he's an addict, then I'm not sure who would be one.

You obviously know as well as I do that it really doesn't matter what you or I believe, it's what Joe believes. He may have changed his mind and decided he really wasn't THAT bad. That happens, sadly, a lot. Even if he does believe he's an addict, it doesn't mean he believes he needs to do something about it, and it doesn't mean he will actually do something about it. Do you want me to quote where you wrote that Joe had hit rock bottom? How did you know that? My crystal ball broke years ago.

I'm certainly not an expert, and you are of course entitled to your opinion, but I'd say that you don't understand addiction very well. Lots of addicts are fully away that they are addicts, and do take steps to do something about it, and yet many of them still suffer repeated relapses. That is the very nature of addiction. I'm not saying that you have to feel sorry for him, whether or not he's an addict, but I just don't understand why you are so skeptical of that, when all of his behavior seems to be text book for someone who is an addict.

I did some research about addiction this afternoon and I found some interesting things. The research I read implies addiction is actually a choice not a disease. The very basic levels of research I read, states that addicts aren't born with the disease or develop the disease without cause, instead after they use a drug the brain can actually change composition, and that is why many doctors call addiction a disease, which makes sense in doctor terms. They don't call it a disease in the sense it makes you use, they called it a disease because after you use a drug for long enough it actually can change the make up of your brain. I tend to agree with a lot of what I read and I found it very interesting. In my opinion, in today's world we are quick to use the term addict just to make the crime or action less violent or bad. I also believe in the term addicts, and I do think after someone uses for so long they are no longer capable of making a choice to stop.

I don't necessarily believe that addiction is exactly the same as physiological diseases, but based upon your premise, you could say that some people "choose" other diseases as well. People who overeat and don't exercise are going to be more prone to develop diabetes and heart disease, people who smoke are going to be more prone to developing lung cancer, etc. There are different categories of addictions too. Alcohol,drugs, and nicotine become physiologically addictive, whereas people who are addicted to gambling, overeating, or porn/sex may not experience that, although these addictions can alter the brain just as powerfully.

However I wouldn't say that addiction to drugs or alcohol is completely a choice either. Lots of people drink socially without becoming alcoholics. There are many recreational drug users who never develop addictions. Maybe no one is born an addict, but certainly some people are born with a predisposition that makes them susceptible to addiction, and they may or may not be aware of the susceptibility that is within them, when they take that first drink, or smoke weed for the first time. It's a very complicated issue.

I just objected to Rick K saying that O'Brien isn't necessarily an addict, when it seems pretty obvious that he is, in looking at the path that his life has taken.

[Rich K]

I just objected to Rick K saying that O'Brien isn't necessarily an addict, when it seems pretty obvious that he is, in looking at the path that his life has taken.

I'm not sure why you'd object to that. I think you're being pretty judgmental towards young Joe. He could have just had a series of bad breaks and unfortunate misunderstandings. Surely those people in Simms that objected to offering Joe the head coaching job were just mean spirited.

[AlphaGriz1]

Addiction is just another excuse for people to excuse self accountability.

I don't care what your doctor says.

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[bobcatmaniac]

I don't feel sorry for him. He is doing this to himself. He is choosing every day whether to take his chosen drug or not. He can chose treatment. Everybody's "rock bottom" is different. Some get a DUI, some land in prison, and some don't get to rock bottom until they die. Fascinating study was done that found addicts that have a fairly large support system and group of (non addict) friends do much better than loners. Interesting comment a friend made to his wife while encouraging her to score points playing "Holey Boards" at a summer get together not long ago,This friend would say "You have to WANT it!" She actually would score more points then! Holds true for many things including getting help for addiction.

[utucats]

I feel bad for him if he is indeed struggling and failing to control his addiction however, this is exactly why I sympathized with the parents in Simms who were against his hiring. Not sure if it would have made a difference but consequences are a necessary part of life and when you get to return to your former profession just because we are addicted to football it sends a message that I don't agree with.

[catatac]

I don't feel sorry for him. He is doing this to himself. He is choosing every day whether to take his chosen drug or not. He can chose treatment. Everybody's "rock bottom" is different. Some get a DUI, some land in prison, and some don't get to rock bottom until they die. Fascinating study was done that found addicts that have a fairly large support system and group of (non addict) friends do much better than loners. Interesting comment a friend made to his wife while encouraging her to score points playing "Holey Boards" at a summer get together not long ago,This friend would say "You have to WANT it!" She actually would score more points then! Holds true for many things including getting help for addiction.

I kinda see your point, but then again you aren't in his shoes. It's easy to say that it doesn't matter how much abuse a kid sustained growing up, when they turn into adults they make their own decisions therefore let them burn when they screw up. I look at some examples of kids that endure extreme pain and suffering from infancy on, physical and emotional abuse, neglect, torture, etc..... And usually those kids end up dead or in jail. Maybe one in a hundred will pull through and have a life, but it's usually just not gonna happen.

[catsrback76]

For those interested, this TED Talk is quite informative.

[KittieKop]

So if he comes out of all this again, and newly declares he's learned his lesson, is on the right path and has a lot to share - how many people are willing to give him another shot with HS or college age kids? In the context of the discussion of him being a recovering addict.

[canyoncat]

So if he comes out of all this again, and newly declares he's learned his lesson, is on the right path and has a lot to share - how many people are willing to give him another shot with HS or college age kids? In the context of the discussion of him being a recovering addict.

Unfortunately very few. Most addicts have multiple relapses. Because of his "high profile " He will never regain any sort of multiple chances or regain any redemption on a public wise basis. He doesn'the deserve any at this point. What Joe needs to do is concentrate on himself and somehow making himself better. His problem is WAY beyond football. Hopefully he will find the strength to lick his addiction once and for all. I am going to pull for him, but it is totally up to himself. Best of luck Joe, you will need it.

[Rich K]

Bumping this again as someone must think Joe O’Brien coaching at MSU-Northern is interesting.

[GrizgradCatFan]

I think its great. I truly think he has paid his debt to society at this time, but he will always have a cloud over his head. I mean look we hired a coach with a DUI on his record. We all do stupid stuff in life and his was extremely stupid, but at sometime you gotta think people learn from their mistakes and grow up. I have known Joe only after all this stuff and had met him several times before realizing his story and what went on and such. He is a true family man that would give anything for his kids. I hope that he gets a chance someday to climb back up the ranks a little and I know it won't happen here unfortunately. Good luck to him and Jerome as they have their work cut out for them up in Havre.

[gtapp]

What is Joe doing now? Google says an assistant coach at MSU Northern. Different Joe O'Brian?

[GoldstoneCat]

Bumping this again as someone must think Joe O’Brien coaching at MSU-Northern is interesting.

Interesting, yes. I'm certain souers was given carte blanche on his staff, except with regard to the budget. They've invested in that program, tillemans helped build them a stadium, and they've won nothing, zilch for years now. People around havre and around the program have spoken very highly of the new staff and their visibility and involvement around town so far, something they'll pointedly tell you the last staff was horrible at. So i think they're excited about souers, excited about what Joe can bring, cautiously optimistic that it can all work. I hope it all works for them. Could it blow up? Sure. But given where that program is, i think it's a worthy gamble.

[Rich K]

What is Joe doing now? Google says an assistant coach at MSU Northern. Different Joe O'Brian?

Same Joe O'Brien. There was a posting on the College Athletics forum just saying to look at Northern Montana football, I assumed the poster wanted to draw attention to the fact that Joe was now on the staff at Northern. It was kind of a lazy posting so I dug this up to remind people why it might be an interesting posting. Here's a story from over a month ago in the Havre Daily News that points out the staff, including Joe, was being assembled.

https://www.havredailynews.com/story/20 ... 37557.html

I don't see much evidence of great excitement for them on the high line but I certainly hope it's true.

[GoCats18]

Well, he is a way better football coach then contractor. Best of luck to him and the Northern program. Hopefully they can do some great stuff there.