Returning BSC All-Conf

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:10 pm

EW: 6 1st team; 3 2nd team; 3 HM (14 starters*)
MSU: 5 1st team; 1 2nd team; 3 HM (18 starters*)
UM: 3 1st team; 3 2nd team; 2 HM (13 starters*)
PSU: 3 1st team; 2 2nd team; 1 HM (?? starters)
* includes starters for 2 games or more.

Does not include Hirst and Hunter (All-Big Sky HM in '03) for MSU or Waller, Simpson for UM although they have starter experience. Includes Roosevelt, Lindsay, Goins for MSU and Thomas and Clark for UM.

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:00 pm

Oops. Also did not include Marudas -- 2003 2nd team or HM. So MSU actually has 12 returning All Big Sky performers.

Gordo · Post by **Gordo** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:59 pm

Got me interested in next years depth chart. Looks like the major weak spots for depth are DL, LB and WR (with the loss of Alley). Anyone have more updated information than this?

LT Peder Jensen 6-5 260 So
Adam DeCock 6-6 285 So
Brian Beniger 6-4 295 Fr

LG Jeff Bolton 6-4 325 Sr
Brant Birkeland 6-1 266 Jr

C Zack Wolf 6-2 281 Sr
Troy Watson 6-2 265 Fr

RG Lawrence Figueroa 6-1 285 Sr
Louis Saucedo 6-4 295 Fr
Chris Smith 6-2 275 Fr

RT Joe Hirst 6-7 275 Jr
Louis Saucedo 6-4 295 Fr
Garin Brewton 6-5 283 Jr

QB Travis Lulay 6-2 203 Sr
Cory Carpenter 6-2 197 So
Rick Coppack 6-0 185 So

RB Justin Domenick 5-11 217 Sr
Morris Milton 5-11 200 Jr (Med Redshirt)
Jason Gathing 6-0 200 Jr (Med Redshirt)
Evin Groves 5-11 180 Fr
Jimmy Beal 5-7 165 Jr

WR Chaz Guinn 6-2 194 Sr
Mike Williams 5-9 159 Jr

WR Rick Gatewood 6-0 180 Sr
?????

WR Brandon Roosevelt 5-11 175 Jr
?????

TE Elliott Barnhart 6-3 225 So
Brian Ouilhon 6-5 230 Fr (I heard he's a "player")

Defense
DE Ryan Cogley 6-3 225 Jr
Aaron Papich 6-2 248 Fr

NT Daryl Rogers 6-2 275 Sr
?????

DT Andy Matakis 6-2 249 Jr
Tim O’Tool 6-3 249 Sr

RE Clive Lowe 6-3 232 Jr
?????

WLB Epikopo King 6-1 205 So
Clayton Curley 6-2 195 Sr

MLB Mac Mollohan 6-0 215 Sr
?????

SLB Nick Marudas 6-1 222 Sr
?????

LCB Eddie Smith 5-9 180 So (Med Redshirt)
Kory Austin 5-11 176 So

FS Ryan Force 6-2 203 Jr
Demond Goins 5-10 170 Sr

SS Toph Grenfell 6-0 196 Sr
Corky Lindsay 5-9 205 Sr

RCB Kahiam Hunter 5-10 170 Sr (Med Redshirt)
Andre Fuller 5-10 159 So

Helcat72 · Post by **Helcat72** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:01 am

Mike Brown, Toby Rundle, and Branton Sherman may provide some depth at WR. Wesley Mauia is supposed to be a good LB. Bobby Daly might be a LB instead of a DE but he could still operate at DE.

We need to recruit a good transfer DE, DT and LB though, to be starter types who can rotate with the ones we have to provide depth for the long run.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:43 am

Okay, this is the latest information I have from my sources:

DEFENSE

Right Corner
Kahaim Hunter
Ryan Kelly

Free Safety
Andre Fuller (I really like this move, granted Andre gains 10-15 pounds)
Toph Grenfell

Strong Safety
Ryan Force
Corky Lindsay

Left Corner
Eddie Smith
Kory Austin

Will LB
Nick Marudas
Epikopo King
Dan Ashley

Mike LB
Mac Mollohan
Wes Mauia

Sam LB
Clayton Curley (needs to gain weight, but expected to be good)

Rush DE
Clive Lowe

Tackle
Daryl Rogers

Nose
Andy Matakis (expected to be a very good player)

Anchor DE
Ryan Cogley

???s
Tim O'Tool
Demond Goins
Aaron Papich (expected to be good)
Bobby Daly (expected to be good - I think he will be a star)

Coaches are looking for bigger DTs (thank god), and are going to make a run to get William Kofe again. Personally, I would be skeptical since he already left us once, but he would sure help out a lot in the middle if we could get him up here. If memory serves correctly, he would still have two years of eligibility left.

OFFENSE

X Receiver
Chaz Guinn

Slot Receiver
Ricky Gatewood
Tyler Lulay

Z Receiver
Brandon Roosevelt
Mike Brown

LT
Jeff Bolton
Peder Jensen
Bryan Beniger

LG
Brant Birkeland
Chris Smith

C
Zach Wolf
Troy Watson

RG
Lawrence Figeroa
Louis Saucedo (expected to be a star)

RT
Joe Hirst
Adam DeCock (expected to be good)

TE
Elliot Barnhart (expected to be good)
Brian Ouihlon (expected to be good)
Brandon Bostick
Nick Parker

FB
Grant Elliott

QB
Travis Lulay
Cory Carpenter
Rick Coppack

RB
Justin Domineck (expected to be much better)
Evin Groves
Jason Gathing

PK
Travis Doroski
Tyler Bolton

???s
Morris Milton (shoulder injury, still unclear if he will return, although we want him to)
Branton Sherman
Toby Rundle
Travis Nellermoe
Jim Verlanic

It looks like Mike Williams and Kellen Alley are gone

Coaches will look for a D-I transfer punter, and a D-I transfer RB

This list is just what we have right now, obviously a lot will change by the time spring ball starts, and a lot more will change by the time we board our flight to Oklahoma next fall. Assuming no injuries, I think our secondary will be 300% better next year, but we need a LOT of help up front if we are going to be good. I know Kramer is hitting the road HARD and letting everybody in the country know that we are looking for D-line transfers, so I would expect we will see him land a couple good kids there. If we can land two or three kids who can earn starting spots, we will suddenly have a lot of depth because I think the kids who would be the back-ups would be very, very good in that position. My biggest complaint with our defenses over the last few years is our inability to cause lots of turnovers - I would like to see a big improvement in that area. I don't know what the coaches aren't teaching, but turnovers just don't seem to happen easily for us. Our best TO guy was Ray Sebastyen, and he is gone. We need WAY more interceptions, and we need to work on stripping the ball on every play while still tackling - this year, when our guys would try to strip the ball, they would get dragged 15 yards because they weren't focused on the tackle. I thought the loss of Coach O'Brien was clearly evident this year, we just haven't played with the same fire and intensity since he left us - we need to find a way to get that back.

I think our coaches easily realized that our lack of a consistent running game was our downfall on offense this year, and I think they will do everything they can to ensure we are better running the ball next year. We look to be very good and deep on the O-line, and I think Coach McEndoo will do some great work this offseason to teach his guys some effective run-blocking. I hope our TEs can put on some muscle this offseason, they have some huge shoes to fill if they are to be as effective as Blake Wolf was. I have never been impressed by Roosevelt as a receiver, but maybe Junior can get in his head and do the same thing he did with the rest of our receivers this year. If he can learn to go all-out on every play, run crisp routes, and catch the ball, he has the natural abilities to be a very good receiver. I still think we may look for another transfer at receiver to ensure some depth, but that is just me.

Our special teams HAVE to improve next year, because they were consistently terrible this year. I don't know what the problem was, but we just made so many mistakes on special teams, it was unacceptable. For a part of the game that was such an advantage one year to turn into a huge disadvantage the next... something has to be done. Players just didn't look like they were trying as hard this year, and there is no excuse for that. If you watch the griz, they go balls-to-the-wall on every special teams play, and if you throw out the stupid trick plays Hack likes to call (Globe of Death, anyone?), the griz have been very effective on special teams, especially blocking kicks right up the middle. That is just all effort, and you gotta like that. They may not have had the big returns this year, but credit that to teams kicking away from them - which still effectively won the field position battle for the griz in almost every game.

All this said, I really like where we are heading into next year. We have a lot of work to do, but I think we have a great nucleus from which to build, and I know the way this season ended will fuel the fire to get back to the playoffs and make some noise. It makes me sick having to stay home and watch the griz play, and I am sure most/all of you feel the same way. I am hoping to see Mike Kramer make some recruiting noise soon, and again get Bobcat Nation fired up for next year!

Gordo · Post by **Gordo** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:40 pm

I agree something was missing in the defense this season. Whether it was the loss of O'Brien, the lack of personnel or lack of confidence, something happened last year to take the fire out of the defense. We ended playing our aggressive defensive scheme very passively (if that makes any sense). We couldn't get any pressure on the QB to cause a disruption in the timing so our corners were pretty much left on an island and weren't given much of a chance to succeed.

After looking at these depth charts I feel that Kramer is correct to use 75% of the available scholarships on defense since the offensive depth looks actually looks really good. After all, the defense is a tradition for the Bobcats so it hurt a little to see us struggle so much in the last three games just as our offense finally started to click. However, I think with a couple transfers to provide depth we can regain our identity (I am guessing it isn't a coaching problem not getting the team properly motivated). Getting Eddie Smith and Hunter back and healthy will be a great start. With Lulay in his senior year, I am sure the offense will be taken to new heights so if our defense can regain some luster things will be looking very very good.

WYCAT · Post by **WYCAT** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:26 pm

That is the first I have heard of moving Andre to safety. I can't say I am against it other than he seemed to really improve at the corner the last few games. I am more scared of Korey Austin backing up Smith at the other corner position. Let's hope Eddie can avoid the injury bug next season.

MSU01 · Post by **MSU01** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:48 pm

Wow, thanks for that Bozone, I wish I had half the sources you apparently do! It's surprising to me that Fuller would be ahead of Grenfell at FS, although it's all guesswork at this point. One additional thing I've been wondering about...did you hear anything about the QB position? Obviously Lulay is the starter next year, but are the coaches comfortable with Carpenter/Coppack as the backup next year and potentially the starter after that, or are they going to be looking to get another QB or two in recruiting?

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:04 pm

Personally, I love the move of Fuller over to safety. He showed great tackling ability all year long, and though he doesn't have the great speed to be a corner, he will have very good speed to be a safety. He also learned a great deal about reading defenses and pass plays this year, which I believe will greatly benefit him next year at the safety position. I am still a bit worried about Austin backing up at corner, but we should remember that he was injured for half the season, and didn't have the playing experience/time to improve that Fuller did. He does need to get much better this offseason, though.

At QB, all I can give is my personal impression. I have been very impressed with Carpenter since he arrived on campus, I think he will be very good. I don't think Coppack will ever see the field. I would look for a QB in this recruiting class, because I believe you have to recruit a QB at least every other year to ensure continued success - hopefully, we won't be in the position of having to start a true freshman QB ever again, even considering how well it worked out for us with Travis. QB is such a tough position to learn, you give the guy a much better chance of succeeding if he can have at least two years to learn the system and get physically better. Kramer has always preached that to win the Big Sky, you have to have a championship-caliber QB, and it is tough to argue with that. Also, I think it would be nice for any kid coming in to be able to learn underneath Travis for a season...

WYCAT · Post by **WYCAT** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:07 am

I am not at all against the move of Fuller to safety just a little surprised when you said that. We seem to be pretty deep at safety and thinner at corner - even with Smith and Hunter back. I agree about the hitting, I can't remember how many times in the last three games or so Kris Atterberry saying "wow - big hit by Fuller, etc..."

Even with the collapse this season I have a lot of respect for Kwiatkowski and Kramer and their personnel choices for our defense. Thanks for the insight.

Helcat72 · Post by **Helcat72** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:31 pm

Gordo wrote:I agree something was missing in the defense this season. Whether it was the loss of O'Brien, the lack of personnel or lack of confidence, something happened last year to take the fire out of the defense. We ended playing our aggressive defensive scheme very passively (if that makes any sense). We couldn't get any pressure on the QB to cause a disruption in the timing so our corners were pretty much left on an island and weren't given much of a chance to succeed.

After talking to some of the D-linemen this year they told me that Linder changed a lot of the technique that O'Brien taught for three years. The D linemen performed the way they were taught, but didn't believe in it like they did the way OBien taught. I assume that our smallish linmen were taught techniques used by bigger people. Perhaps Linder was used to having bigger people at the tackles. If we get bigger tackles maybe Linder's system will work better. O'Brien's system was to use smaller quicker defensive tackles (like he was) and control gaps rather than stand the O-linemen up and read. I believe that's why we had few sacks by the D line and most were by linebackers.

HelenaCat · Post by **HelenaCat** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:40 pm

Boy, then we better change something-either the coaching techniques, or get bigger kids!

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:26 pm

Amen, HC.

Despite his obvious deficiencies off the field, Coach OB knew how to run a D-line. If we brought in a guy who SIGNIFICANTLY tried to change what OB was teaching, that was a mistake that needs to be rectified. I believe the 2 years prior to his "problem" ruining his life, Coach OB's guys got 8 of the 16 first- or second-team All Big Sky D Line honors.

That, my friends, is impressive & evidence that the guy knew his shiznit. If what you're posting is true, Helena, I would hope we can find a coach who thinks more similarly to OB, sans the crack.

Helcat72 · Post by **Helcat72** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:02 pm

....or Kwiatkoski needs to re-evaluate the techniques used by Linder to see if they fit our personnel!

grizhatr · Post by **grizhatr** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:09 am

Helcat is right. Linders's doesn't believe in the man to man, stay with your guy defense. Linder's wants them to read the play, that is why the holes opened up for Sac's Mole, for example. I say get rid of him or get him into believing what worked well five years prior to him getting the job.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:13 am

Precisely my point. What OB was doing was working DAMN WELL. I would think you'd either find a guy who did the same things, or inform the incoming guy that's what you wanted from him.

It does not sound to me like either of those 2 things happened, and I admit, that does concern me...

Next time I talk with the Big Human, I will try to "get to the bottom" of this issue...

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:46 am

El_Gato wrote:Amen, HC.

Despite his obvious deficiencies off the field, Coach OB knew how to run a D-line. If we brought in a guy who SIGNIFICANTLY tried to change what OB was teaching, that was a mistake that needs to be rectified. I believe the 2 years prior to his "problem" ruining his life, Coach OB's guys got 8 of the 16 first- or second-team All Big Sky D Line honors.

That, my friends, is impressive & evidence that the guy knew his shiznit. If what you're posting is true, Helena, I would hope we can find a coach who thinks more similarly to OB, sans the crack.

They should think about asking John Montoya to come back as a DL coach maybe then? Everyone always said how smart he was/coach like to help guys on the DL. I'm sure he knows Obrien's system to a 'T'. I know he may not want to do this, but it could be worth a shot? I think he would make a great coach!

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:10 pm

If he had any thoughts about being a coach, I think Montoya would be an awesome pick.

Please note: I am not in anyway suggesting that Linder should be fired or that I have any specific beef with him. It just sounds as if the system he brought was significantly different than OB's and that perhaps the guys recruited by/for OB's system don't necessarily "fit" Linder's style.

If that's the case, we need to make the changes necessary to create a better "fit", whatever those changes need to be. Our D line used to be the ANCHOR for this whole team & I really didn't feel that way about this year's unit...

CelticCat · Post by **CelticCat** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:31 pm

I thought our D played pretty well for the most part this year. Of course no where near as good as it has been in the past, but up until that Sac St debacle, we had allowed about 19.6 ppg, including giving up 38 or whatever to CSU. We held that potent passing offense in Idaho in check, and stopped Robinson of NAU. We had spurts of good defense, but overall it wasn't very consistent this year, and eventually we wore down, or got demoralized, or whatever happened. We finished 4th in the Sky for total defense, I don't think that is horrible by anyone's standards. We also gave up the 2nd fewest TDs in the Sky, behind PSU.

If it weren't for the last three games, this D would have been just fine for all accounts. But the fact is, we DID suck it up those last 3 games on D. Something does need to be looked at, find a reason for the big defensive let down those last 3 weeks. Make adjustments, get some new players, perhaps a new or tweaked D strategy, and go with it. I think we can expect to see a much improved D for next year.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:33 pm

El_Gato wrote:If he had any thoughts about being a coach, I think Montoya would be an awesome pick.

Please note: I am not in anyway suggesting that Linder should be fired or that I have any specific beef with him. It just sounds as if the system he brought was significantly different than OB's and that perhaps the guys recruited by/for OB's system don't necessarily "fit" Linder's style.

If that's the case, we need to make the changes necessary to create a better "fit", whatever those changes need to be. Our D line used to be the ANCHOR for this whole team & I really didn't feel that way about this year's unit...

I'm sure this is the area of focus this year in the offseason. Coach Kramer knows that the DL has been the mainstay for Montana State throughout its history and they have a proud history of getting good talent/play in there. If we can get this built up quickly by next year this team will be VERY VERY TOUGH as I love our depth/versatility in our secondary come next year. I also hope they move Gathing to LB next year (assuming we get a good RB - Graves or JC transfer) as Gathing can put the hurt on people and could be a very good LB in our system.