Entz to USC

[The Butcher]

I don't understand why anyone thinks Vigen owes anything to this university. He's free to look for upward mobility in his profession, and use other offers as leverage here. That's just smart business. Who cares if he actually did interview at boise or ndsu? He should only be looking to do what's best for him and his family. I've been critical of him this season, but to criticize this just doesn't make sense to me.

This. "Fire him if he even side-eyes the head job at his Alma mater" is not a particularly thoughtful or well-supported take on the matter.

I completely understand interviewing for a job that would give him upward mobility over MSU. I wasn’t mad about Boise, if it was even true. But interviewing for NDSU? A team that is basically on the same level as us? If he didn’t get it, he’d lose the locker room. There’s no justification, no defending it. Does he owe us anything? I mean, it’s his first HC job, but no, he doesn’t owe us…it’s just being smart.

I posed this question in response to Herder on twitter. I don't expect a response but was wondering if there are examples of lateral moves such as MSU to NDSU, not a Pioneer League to MSU.

Kramer was HC at Eastern Washington before going to the Cats.

[BelligerentBobcat]

I don't understand why anyone thinks Vigen owes anything to this university. He's free to look for upward mobility in his profession, and use other offers as leverage here. That's just smart business. Who cares if he actually did interview at boise or ndsu? He should only be looking to do what's best for him and his family. I've been critical of him this season, but to criticize this just doesn't make sense to me.

This. "Fire him if he even side-eyes the head job at his Alma mater" is not a particularly thoughtful or well-supported take on the matter.

I completely understand interviewing for a job that would give him upward mobility over MSU. I wasn’t mad about Boise, if it was even true. But interviewing for NDSU? A team that is basically on the same level as us? If he didn’t get it, he’d lose the locker room. There’s no justification, no defending it. Does he owe us anything? I mean, it’s his first HC job, but no, he doesn’t owe us…it’s just being smart.

I'm not an employment lawyer, so i may be wrong, but i doubt you could fire him without paying him the rest of his contract. Pretty sure he got a new one after last year, 4- year deal maybe? So you'd be on the hook for a million plus the staff, plus the new staff. For him taking an interview at his alma mater. You can call it a lateral move and defend it, but it's also the best FCS program in history. Even if you're at one that's currently a top 5 program, wouldn't you want the #1 job? Would you tell the Tennessee head coach or the auburn head coach to turn down an interview request from Alabama? Not reasonable imo.

I’m clearly being hyperbolic with the firing, but the sentiment remains the same.

I think better example would be if the SDSU coach interviewed for the NDSU job, or vise versa. It’s one thing if you get the job, but if you don’t, how do you explain that to the players on the team that have believed everything you’ve said about how we’re just as good as the team to the East that’s won so much? You lose all credibility in the locker room.

[Bobcat Sig]

I don't understand why anyone thinks Vigen owes anything to this university. He's free to look for upward mobility in his profession, and use other offers as leverage here. That's just smart business. Who cares if he actually did interview at boise or ndsu? He should only be looking to do what's best for him and his family. I've been critical of him this season, but to criticize this just doesn't make sense to me.

This. "Fire him if he even side-eyes the head job at his Alma mater" is not a particularly thoughtful or well-supported take on the matter.

I completely understand interviewing for a job that would give him upward mobility over MSU. I wasn’t mad about Boise, if it was even true. But interviewing for NDSU? A team that is basically on the same level as us? If he didn’t get it, he’d lose the locker room. There’s no justification, no defending it. Does he owe us anything? I mean, it’s his first HC job, but no, he doesn’t owe us…it’s just being smart.

I posed this question in response to Herder on twitter. I don't expect a response but was wondering if there are examples of lateral moves such as MSU to NDSU, not a Pioneer League to MSU.

Kramer was HC at Eastern Washington before going to the Cats.

And Ash at Drake before moving to MSU.

[CelticCat]

MSU to NDSU is closer to lateral than it is to a big step up but NDSU's last two coaches before Entz were hired straight away to the FBS, and pretty big FBS programs at that - Craig Bohl to Wyoming and Chris Klieman to Kansas State. Choate was the first MSU coach who was hired away for like 40 years or whatever. NDSU is a better path to a bigger job. They also put more guys in the NFL although that might be changing if all of their good players are just going to transfer.

From MSU to NDSU isn't like from Akron to Ohio State or anything but it's probably like UW to Michigan or something. I don't follow the FBS too much, someone help with me an analogy.

[BelligerentBobcat]

I don't understand why anyone thinks Vigen owes anything to this university. He's free to look for upward mobility in his profession, and use other offers as leverage here. That's just smart business. Who cares if he actually did interview at boise or ndsu? He should only be looking to do what's best for him and his family. I've been critical of him this season, but to criticize this just doesn't make sense to me.

This. "Fire him if he even side-eyes the head job at his Alma mater" is not a particularly thoughtful or well-supported take on the matter.

I completely understand interviewing for a job that would give him upward mobility over MSU. I wasn’t mad about Boise, if it was even true. But interviewing for NDSU? A team that is basically on the same level as us? If he didn’t get it, he’d lose the locker room. There’s no justification, no defending it. Does he owe us anything? I mean, it’s his first HC job, but no, he doesn’t owe us…it’s just being smart.

I posed this question in response to Herder on twitter. I don't expect a response but was wondering if there are examples of lateral moves such as MSU to NDSU, not a Pioneer League to MSU.

Kramer was HC at Eastern Washington before going to the Cats.

And Ash at Drake before moving to MSU.

Drake and MSU isn’t close to a lateral move.

[TomCat88]

I don't understand why anyone thinks Vigen owes anything to this university. He's free to look for upward mobility in his profession, and use other offers as leverage here. That's just smart business. Who cares if he actually did interview at boise or ndsu? He should only be looking to do what's best for him and his family. I've been critical of him this season, but to criticize this just doesn't make sense to me.

This. "Fire him if he even side-eyes the head job at his Alma mater" is not a particularly thoughtful or well-supported take on the matter.

I completely understand interviewing for a job that would give him upward mobility over MSU. I wasn’t mad about Boise, if it was even true. But interviewing for NDSU? A team that is basically on the same level as us? If he didn’t get it, he’d lose the locker room. There’s no justification, no defending it. Does he owe us anything? I mean, it’s his first HC job, but no, he doesn’t owe us…it’s just being smart.

I posed this question in response to Herder on twitter. I don't expect a response but was wondering if there are examples of lateral moves such as MSU to NDSU, not a Pioneer League to MSU.

Kramer was HC at Eastern Washington before going to the Cats.

And that was 24 years ago. Basically, my point is that it just doesn't happen often at all. So, it's hard to imagine that Vigen would bail on MSU to take the job at NDSU. Plus, it's win it all or you're a failure there. I'd say the chance of getting scooped up by a FBS program isn't much better than getting canned for not winning a national championship.

[onceacat]

MSU to NDSU is closer to lateral than it is to a big step up but NDSU's last two coaches before Entz were hired straight away to the FBS, and pretty big FBS programs at that - Craig Bohl to Wyoming and Chris Klieman to Kansas State. Choate was the first MSU coach who was hired away for like 40 years or whatever. NDSU is a better path to a bigger job. They also put more guys in the NFL although that might be changing if all of their good players are just going to transfer.

From MSU to NDSU isn't like from Akron to Ohio State or anything but it's probably like UW to Michigan or something. I don't follow the FBS too much, someone help with me an analogy.

MSU has been a top 4 team for 3 years. That would be like going from a FBS New Years Day team (Utah, Florida State, Texas, Oklahoma, Clemson, LSU, Oregon) to a Top 3-4 Team (Ohio State, Michigan, Georgia, Bama)

[onceacat]

MSU to NDSU is closer to lateral than it is to a big step up but NDSU's last two coaches before Entz were hired straight away to the FBS, and pretty big FBS programs at that - Craig Bohl to Wyoming and Chris Klieman to Kansas State. Choate was the first MSU coach who was hired away for like 40 years or whatever. NDSU is a better path to a bigger job. They also put more guys in the NFL although that might be changing if all of their good players are just going to transfer.

From MSU to NDSU isn't like from Akron to Ohio State or anything but it's probably like UW to Michigan or something. I don't follow the FBS too much, someone help with me an analogy.

In fairness, the coaches over 40 years who didnt move up from MSU were mostly caused by poor performance, either on or off the field. I have zero doubt that Vigen will have a mid tier MWC job waiting for him when he decides to move on from MSU.

[RKMCMT]

MSU to NDSU is closer to lateral than it is to a big step up but NDSU's last two coaches before Entz were hired straight away to the FBS, and pretty big FBS programs at that - Craig Bohl to Wyoming and Chris Klieman to Kansas State. Choate was the first MSU coach who was hired away for like 40 years or whatever. NDSU is a better path to a bigger job. They also put more guys in the NFL although that might be changing if all of their good players are just going to transfer.

From MSU to NDSU isn't like from Akron to Ohio State or anything but it's probably like UW to Michigan or something. I don't follow the FBS too much, someone help with me an analogy.

I'd quibble with Wyoming being a 'pretty big' FBS program.

As for the rest, the FCS realities are changing rapidly. NDSU is losing its competitive advantages while other programs' (like ours) market fundamentals are improving. NIL portal poaching will only expedite that.

As a coach, looking at a program that's likely peaked vs one that's close tot he top but has been improving... all else being equal, most choose the latter (imho)

[CelticCat]

MSU to NDSU is closer to lateral than it is to a big step up but NDSU's last two coaches before Entz were hired straight away to the FBS, and pretty big FBS programs at that - Craig Bohl to Wyoming and Chris Klieman to Kansas State. Choate was the first MSU coach who was hired away for like 40 years or whatever. NDSU is a better path to a bigger job. They also put more guys in the NFL although that might be changing if all of their good players are just going to transfer.

From MSU to NDSU isn't like from Akron to Ohio State or anything but it's probably like UW to Michigan or something. I don't follow the FBS too much, someone help with me an analogy.

I'd quibble with Wyoming being a 'pretty big' FBS program.

As for the rest, the FCS realities are changing rapidly. NDSU is losing its competitive advantages while other programs' (like ours) market fundamentals are improving. NIL portal poaching will only expedite that.

As a coach, looking at a program that's likely peaked vs one that's close tot he top but has been improving... all else being equal, most choose the latter (imho)

Alabama and NDSU, two teams people think have peaked, are both in the final 4 of their respective playoffs.

[Catsrgrood]

MSU to NDSU is closer to lateral than it is to a big step up but NDSU's last two coaches before Entz were hired straight away to the FBS, and pretty big FBS programs at that - Craig Bohl to Wyoming and Chris Klieman to Kansas State. Choate was the first MSU coach who was hired away for like 40 years or whatever. NDSU is a better path to a bigger job. They also put more guys in the NFL although that might be changing if all of their good players are just going to transfer.

From MSU to NDSU isn't like from Akron to Ohio State or anything but it's probably like UW to Michigan or something. I don't follow the FBS too much, someone help with me an analogy.

I'd quibble with Wyoming being a 'pretty big' FBS program.

As for the rest, the FCS realities are changing rapidly. NDSU is losing its competitive advantages while other programs' (like ours) market fundamentals are improving. NIL portal poaching will only expedite that.

As a coach, looking at a program that's likely peaked vs one that's close tot he top but has been improving... all else being equal, most choose the latter (imho)

Alabama and NDSU, two teams people think have peaked, are both in the final 4 of their respective playoffs.

True, and they very well may win it all again this year.

But what I think we’re seeing is the era of their utter dominance is likely coming to an end. Not saying they won’t be top 3-4 consistently and win some more titles, but they’re not going to be head and shoulders above everyone else like they were for a few years there.

They have 35 players listed as seniors on this year’s team. Their head coach is leaving, and who knows how hard they get hit by the portal. So it’s a major unknown on what they’ll look like next year and just how good they’ll be.

A little off subject, but along those lines, SDSU has 34 players listed as seniors on their roster, many of which are all conference and all American.

The Cats will be, and should be, in the conversation for being title contenders again next year. Another reason why I’d be bummed and a little disappointed to lose Vigen to NDSU.
He’ll leave eventually, but I hope it’s for a true move up, not a lateral move.

[RickRund]

I don't understand why anyone thinks Vigen owes anything to this university. He's free to look for upward mobility in his profession, and use other offers as leverage here. That's just smart business. Who cares if he actually did interview at boise or ndsu? He should only be looking to do what's best for him and his family. I've been critical of him this season, but to criticize this just doesn't make sense to me.

This. "Fire him if he even side-eyes the head job at his Alma mater" is not a particularly thoughtful or well-supported take on the matter.

I completely understand interviewing for a job that would give him upward mobility over MSU. I wasn’t mad about Boise, if it was even true. But interviewing for NDSU? A team that is basically on the same level as us? If he didn’t get it, he’d lose the locker room. There’s no justification, no defending it. Does he owe us anything? I mean, it’s his first HC job, but no, he doesn’t owe us…it’s just being smart.

I posed this question in response to Herder on twitter. I don't expect a response but was wondering if there are examples of lateral moves such as MSU to NDSU, not a Pioneer League to MSU.

Kramer was HC at Eastern Washington before going to the Cats.

And Ash at Drake before moving to MSU.

Drake and MSU isn’t close to a lateral move.

Drake to Carroll or Rocky might be lateral

[MSU01]

I don't understand why anyone thinks Vigen owes anything to this university. He's free to look for upward mobility in his profession, and use other offers as leverage here. That's just smart business. Who cares if he actually did interview at boise or ndsu? He should only be looking to do what's best for him and his family. I've been critical of him this season, but to criticize this just doesn't make sense to me.

This. "Fire him if he even side-eyes the head job at his Alma mater" is not a particularly thoughtful or well-supported take on the matter.

I completely understand interviewing for a job that would give him upward mobility over MSU. I wasn’t mad about Boise, if it was even true. But interviewing for NDSU? A team that is basically on the same level as us? If he didn’t get it, he’d lose the locker room. There’s no justification, no defending it. Does he owe us anything? I mean, it’s his first HC job, but no, he doesn’t owe us…it’s just being smart.

I'm not an employment lawyer, so i may be wrong, but i doubt you could fire him without paying him the rest of his contract. Pretty sure he got a new one after last year, 4- year deal maybe? So you'd be on the hook for a million plus the staff, plus the new staff. For him taking an interview at his alma mater. You can call it a lateral move and defend it, but it's also the best FCS program in history. Even if you're at one that's currently a top 5 program, wouldn't you want the #1 job? Would you tell the Tennessee head coach or the auburn head coach to turn down an interview request from Alabama? Not reasonable imo.

I’m clearly being hyperbolic with the firing, but the sentiment remains the same.

I think better example would be if the SDSU coach interviewed for the NDSU job, or vise versa. It’s one thing if you get the job, but if you don’t, how do you explain that to the players on the team that have believed everything you’ve said about how we’re just as good as the team to the East that’s won so much? You lose all credibility in the locker room.

I'd guess that if there are discussions between Vigen and NDSU about that job, it will be done in a way that none of us ever find out for sure that those discussions happened unless he ends up being hired there.

[Joe Bobcat]

I don't understand why anyone thinks Vigen owes anything to this university. He's free to look for upward mobility in his profession, and use other offers as leverage here. That's just smart business. Who cares if he actually did interview at boise or ndsu? He should only be looking to do what's best for him and his family. I've been critical of him this season, but to criticize this just doesn't make sense to me.

This. "Fire him if he even side-eyes the head job at his Alma mater" is not a particularly thoughtful or well-supported take on the matter.

I completely understand interviewing for a job that would give him upward mobility over MSU. I wasn’t mad about Boise, if it was even true. But interviewing for NDSU? A team that is basically on the same level as us? If he didn’t get it, he’d lose the locker room. There’s no justification, no defending it. Does he owe us anything? I mean, it’s his first HC job, but no, he doesn’t owe us…it’s just being smart.

I posed this question in response to Herder on twitter. I don't expect a response but was wondering if there are examples of lateral moves such as MSU to NDSU, not a Pioneer League to MSU.

Kramer was HC at Eastern Washington before going to the Cats.

Cheney
That’s my one word response to Kramer making that move

[FatBuffalo]

NDSU has ZERO interest in hiring Vigen.

You will find that out on Thursday this week.

[LoggerCat]

NDSU has ZERO interest in hiring Vigen.

You will find that out on Thursday this week.

Fine with me

[FatBuffalo]

I hope he stays in Bozeman for a long, long time. We both get our wish

[91catAlum]

NDSU has ZERO interest in hiring Vigen.

You will find that out on Thursday this week.

Why, what happens Thursday?

[BelligerentBobcat]

NDSU has ZERO interest in hiring Vigen.

You will find that out on Thursday this week.

Why, what happens Thursday?

He’s saying they’ll announce the hire on Thursday.

[tetoncat]

NDSU has ZERO interest in hiring Vigen.

You will find that out on Thursday this week.

Why, what happens Thursday?

He’s saying they’ll announce the hire on Thursday.

And even if it isn't Vigen doesn't prove there was no interest.