EWU Offense

[coochorama42]

I believe MSU's defense is better than EWU's offense. I believe the EWU offense will be forced to adjust much more than MSU's offense.

MSU is going to force EWU to run the ball or throw into tight windows in the middle of the field. If Eastern doesn't take what's given to them, they will turn the ball over enough to make them one-dimensional. If they do take what's given, they will slow the pace down themselves.

The MSU offense likely has four 1st team all-conference players (and the current 2nd team QB). They will build a gameplan so that Ifanse and McCutcheon can run wild in the 2nd half.

I think it's that simple. Force Barriere to hand the ball off or make risky throws. Show multiple looks early on offense so you can pound them into submission late.

[Prodigal Cat]

Watched the Weber game on Monday (side note those of you griping about ESPN+ can shove it. This wouldn't have been an option before this year. And moaning about production is like being an ass to your waitress over the way your steak is cooked. They do not control production, just distro). Weber definitely relied on their DB's by rushing only 4 and sometimes just 3 and dropping 7-8 into coverage. Saying EB was running for his life isn't true. He had lots of time and was the leading rusher for EWU by a wide margin because after standing in the pocket for 4 or 5, it would open up he would tuck and run. I'm not sure the Cats can employ the same strategy as I'm not sure we are as strong on the backend as Weber. We are definitely younger. The griz used their blitz every down scheme and he shredded them. EB also just didn't have a great game Saturday. He started something like 1 for 7 and just missed some open guys. Might be to much to ask for a 2nd equal performance. The thing that the Cats have though is I think they CAN get to him with just 4 and occasionally 5 guys. Weber's front is good but the Cat's is better and if Benson is constantly getting doubles guys will come free.

The ESPN+ broadcast for the Idaho State game was a joke. Seems like that opinion upsets you. Oh well.

Not sure what you are complaining about here. I was at the ISU game so I didn't watch the live stream but it seems like most people are griping about crappy camera work. I watched the replay and it wasn't horrible especially compared to some of the broadcast levels we've had before. If that's the case ESPN has NOTHING to with that. Your complaint is with SWX( the producer) and MSU for hiring them. ESPN just picks up whatever broadcast the school provides them. I believe the main SWX broadcast (they are probably only geared to do one a week) was of the um/UI game so maybe MSU got the B team?

[Prodigal Cat]

Watched the Weber game on Monday (side note those of you griping about ESPN+ can shove it. This wouldn't have been an option before this year. And moaning about production is like being an ass to your waitress over the way your steak is cooked. They do not control production, just distro). Weber definitely relied on their DB's by rushing only 4 and sometimes just 3 and dropping 7-8 into coverage. Saying EB was running for his life isn't true. He had lots of time and was the leading rusher for EWU by a wide margin because after standing in the pocket for 4 or 5, it would open up he would tuck and run. I'm not sure the Cats can employ the same strategy as I'm not sure we are as strong on the backend as Weber. We are definitely younger. The griz used their blitz every down scheme and he shredded them. EB also just didn't have a great game Saturday. He started something like 1 for 7 and just missed some open guys. Might be to much to ask for a 2nd equal performance. The thing that the Cats have though is I think they CAN get to him with just 4 and occasionally 5 guys. Weber's front is good but the Cat's is better and if Benson is constantly getting doubles guys will come free.

The ESPN+ broadcast for the Idaho State game was a joke. Seems like that opinion upsets you. Oh well.

Some people were happy to have a broadcast to watch even if it wasn't top notch. Seems like that opinion upsets you. Oh well.

No kidding!! A couple weeks ago I was watching my nephew win a football game on Friday night from the bleachers and at the same time I was watching MSU/Weber on my phone. Light years ahead of previous options. FYI this was a game that ESPN provided production for as it was on one of their main networks. Nobody really bitched about it and a lot were complimentary of the analysis. Weird

[tdub]

Watched the Weber game on Monday (side note those of you griping about ESPN+ can shove it. This wouldn't have been an option before this year. And moaning about production is like being an ass to your waitress over the way your steak is cooked. They do not control production, just distro). Weber definitely relied on their DB's by rushing only 4 and sometimes just 3 and dropping 7-8 into coverage. Saying EB was running for his life isn't true. He had lots of time and was the leading rusher for EWU by a wide margin because after standing in the pocket for 4 or 5, it would open up he would tuck and run. I'm not sure the Cats can employ the same strategy as I'm not sure we are as strong on the backend as Weber. We are definitely younger. The griz used their blitz every down scheme and he shredded them. EB also just didn't have a great game Saturday. He started something like 1 for 7 and just missed some open guys. Might be to much to ask for a 2nd equal performance. The thing that the Cats have though is I think they CAN get to him with just 4 and occasionally 5 guys. Weber's front is good but the Cat's is better and if Benson is constantly getting doubles guys will come free.

The ESPN+ broadcast for the Idaho State game was a joke. Seems like that opinion upsets you. Oh well.

Not sure what you are complaining about here. I was at the ISU game so I didn't watch the live stream but it seems like most people are griping about crappy camera work. I watched the replay and it wasn't horrible especially compared to some of the broadcast levels we've had before. If that's the case ESPN has NOTHING to with that. Your complaint is with SWX( the producer) and MSU for hiring them. ESPN just picks up whatever broadcast the school provides them. I believe the main SWX broadcast (they are probably only geared to do one a week) was of the um/UI game so maybe MSU got the B team?

This is not accurate. For MSU, ESPN+ does not pick up the SWX feed. Learfield does their own video and syncs with the radio broadcast. SWX does a significantly better job than what was streamed via Learfield. But for some reason, ESPN+ streamed the SWX broadcast of the UM game. I don’t understand why.

[PapaG]

Watched the Weber game on Monday (side note those of you griping about ESPN+ can shove it. This wouldn't have been an option before this year. And moaning about production is like being an ass to your waitress over the way your steak is cooked. They do not control production, just distro). Weber definitely relied on their DB's by rushing only 4 and sometimes just 3 and dropping 7-8 into coverage. Saying EB was running for his life isn't true. He had lots of time and was the leading rusher for EWU by a wide margin because after standing in the pocket for 4 or 5, it would open up he would tuck and run. I'm not sure the Cats can employ the same strategy as I'm not sure we are as strong on the backend as Weber. We are definitely younger. The griz used their blitz every down scheme and he shredded them. EB also just didn't have a great game Saturday. He started something like 1 for 7 and just missed some open guys. Might be to much to ask for a 2nd equal performance. The thing that the Cats have though is I think they CAN get to him with just 4 and occasionally 5 guys. Weber's front is good but the Cat's is better and if Benson is constantly getting doubles guys will come free.

The ESPN+ broadcast for the Idaho State game was a joke. Seems like that opinion upsets you. Oh well.

Not sure what you are complaining about here. I was at the ISU game so I didn't watch the live stream but it seems like most people are griping about crappy camera work. I watched the replay and it wasn't horrible especially compared to some of the broadcast levels we've had before. If that's the case ESPN has NOTHING to with that. Your complaint is with SWX( the producer) and MSU for hiring them. ESPN just picks up whatever broadcast the school provides them. I believe the main SWX broadcast (they are probably only geared to do one a week) was of the um/UI game so maybe MSU got the B team?

Was the SWX crew hired by ESPN? I’ve seen two different game strings after the game with highlights. On the ESPN+ feed, many downfield throws weren’t tracked by the camera person.

On the highlights from SWX I’ve seen, no issues on basic camerawork as they can track a deep pass.

[Lord Vigo]

So, the Cats entire offensive plan all year has been to "punt all day" and it got a win against Weber & a near win at Wyoming. The Cats entire offense (at least against quality opponents) has been to "punt all day" and play field position.

The Eagles only lost one game this year, and they had 14 drives, above their season average. Weber also only had one drive of over 4 minutes. Obviously, the conventional wisdom that "limiting" possessions & eating the clock is a way to beat the Eagles is 100% misguided.

The way to beat the Eagles is by not turning over the ball. A punt is a turnover. So in practice, that means getting the ball into 4th and short & then converting on those plays. But that has nothing to with "long, clock eating drives".

Its "you are in 4 down territory" for pretty much the entire game. Clock has nothing to do with it.

Say what? The Cats' offensive plan has been to punt all day? That doesn't even make sense.

I agree with you that winning the turnover battle is more important than producing long scoring drives.

But with that said, it's obviously not misguided to say that sustaining offense and limiting their possessions would be a coup and very helpful towards picking up a win. Giving their powerful offense fewer cracks at our defense can only help, allowing that the Cats' offense is scoring.

It's funny that you simultaneously say that they need to convert to sustain drives, but that thinking that long, sustained drives would help is "100% misguided."

[grizzh8r]

Watched the Weber game on Monday (side note those of you griping about ESPN+ can shove it. This wouldn't have been an option before this year. And moaning about production is like being an ass to your waitress over the way your steak is cooked. They do not control production, just distro). Weber definitely relied on their DB's by rushing only 4 and sometimes just 3 and dropping 7-8 into coverage. Saying EB was running for his life isn't true. He had lots of time and was the leading rusher for EWU by a wide margin because after standing in the pocket for 4 or 5, it would open up he would tuck and run. I'm not sure the Cats can employ the same strategy as I'm not sure we are as strong on the backend as Weber. We are definitely younger. The griz used their blitz every down scheme and he shredded them. EB also just didn't have a great game Saturday. He started something like 1 for 7 and just missed some open guys. Might be to much to ask for a 2nd equal performance. The thing that the Cats have though is I think they CAN get to him with just 4 and occasionally 5 guys. Weber's front is good but the Cat's is better and if Benson is constantly getting doubles guys will come free.

The ESPN+ broadcast for the Idaho State game was a joke. Seems like that opinion upsets you. Oh well.

Some people were happy to have a broadcast to watch even if it wasn't top notch. Seems like that opinion upsets you. Oh well.

No kidding!! A couple weeks ago I was watching my nephew win a football game on Friday night from the bleachers and at the same time I was watching MSU/Weber on my phone. Light years ahead of previous options. FYI this was a game that ESPN provided production for as it was on one of their main networks. Nobody really bitched about it and a lot were complimentary of the analysis. Weird

Wow, Captain Obvious sighting!

It's been well documented that the feed picked up by ESPN+ is NOT produced by them, nor is it the SWX production, which has been pretty decent for as long as I can remember.

[91catAlum]

I believe MSU's defense is better than EWU's offense. I believe the EWU offense will be forced to adjust much more than MSU's offense.

MSU is going to force EWU to run the ball or throw into tight windows in the middle of the field. If Eastern doesn't take what's given to them, they will turn the ball over enough to make them one-dimensional. If they do take what's given, they will slow the pace down themselves.

The MSU offense likely has four 1st team all-conference players (and the current 2nd team QB). They will build a gameplan so that Ifanse and McCutcheon can run wild in the 2nd half.

I think it's that simple. Force Barriere to hand the ball off or make risky throws. Show multiple looks early on offense so you can pound them into submission late.

If I'm ewu, I'm absolutely going after MSU on the outsides. Our corners are long and athletic, but young and untested so far this season (with Tyrel Thomas injured most of the season). Anytime Barriere gets a 1 on 1 matchup outside, he'll go after it. Hopefully Thomas is fully healthy by then because we'll need him.

The key is to get heat on Barriere as quickly as possible. The griz blitzed almost every play and "held" them to 34 points. I didn't see the Weber game but I'm guessing they followed a similar plan, along with successfully faking 3 punts to "create" extra possessions. Anytime MSU has the ball across midfield I hope they will also be aggressive on 4th down and short.

EWU is a very good team and they have the best QB in the country. The odds that they lose twice in row at home are very, very slim. MSU will have to play their best game of the season to win.

[onceacat]

So, the Cats entire offensive plan all year has been to "punt all day" and it got a win against Weber & a near win at Wyoming. The Cats entire offense (at least against quality opponents) has been to "punt all day" and play field position.

The Eagles only lost one game this year, and they had 14 drives, above their season average. Weber also only had one drive of over 4 minutes. Obviously, the conventional wisdom that "limiting" possessions & eating the clock is a way to beat the Eagles is 100% misguided.

The way to beat the Eagles is by not turning over the ball. A punt is a turnover. So in practice, that means getting the ball into 4th and short & then converting on those plays. But that has nothing to with "long, clock eating drives".

Its "you are in 4 down territory" for pretty much the entire game. Clock has nothing to do with it.

Say what? The Cats' offensive plan has been to punt all day? That doesn't even make sense.

I agree with you that winning the turnover battle is more important than producing long scoring drives.

But with that said, it's obviously not misguided to say that sustaining offense and limiting their possessions would be a coup and very helpful towards picking up a win. Giving their powerful offense fewer cracks at our defense can only help, allowing that the Cats' offense is scoring.

It's funny that you simultaneously say that they need to convert to sustain drives, but that thinking that long, sustained drives would help is "100% misguided."

This is a totally weird misinterpretation.

For the entire season, the Cats offensive game plan has been 100% happy to go 3 and out or 6 and out and punt for field position. Especially with quality opponents like UW, WSU, and even PSU. Its a very old school football philosophy that works in certain circumstances.

You can't play for field position with EWU. You have to convert points on drives. Full stops. A punt is 100% as bad of a failure as a fumble or INT.

At the end of the game, it doesn't matter if the Cats score on explosive 70 yard runs from Mellot, a 3 play drive with 2 jump balls to McCutcheon, or 98 yards of Ifanse running between the tackles. The ONLY thing that matters is scoring. On every possible drive. "Control" is a stupid euphanism that entirely misses the point of what EWU is trying to do.

"Limiting possessions" is an equally stupid euphemism for "we just need to keep the clock running".

All those euphemisms are from coaching staffs that don't understand what football actually is in 2020 (Jamie Marshall would fit right in). Its fascinating how you dialed in on the turnover margin-which is only relevant because EWU's D strategy is focused on forcing turnovers instead of forcing punts-and ignored the 4th down conversion rate.

MSU is going to need to go for it at least 4 times on 4th down and convert 3 in order to win.

Nothing whatsoever to do with "ball control" or "limiting possessions" or whatever other hackneyed 50 year old cliche from the 70s you want to throw out. Those things completely and utterly miss the point of what you need to do to beat EWU.

[onceacat]

I believe MSU's defense is better than EWU's offense. I believe the EWU offense will be forced to adjust much more than MSU's offense.

MSU is going to force EWU to run the ball or throw into tight windows in the middle of the field. If Eastern doesn't take what's given to them, they will turn the ball over enough to make them one-dimensional. If they do take what's given, they will slow the pace down themselves.

The MSU offense likely has four 1st team all-conference players (and the current 2nd team QB). They will build a gameplan so that Ifanse and McCutcheon can run wild in the 2nd half.

I think it's that simple. Force Barriere to hand the ball off or make risky throws. Show multiple looks early on offense so you can pound them into submission late.

If I'm ewu, I'm absolutely going after MSU on the outsides. Our corners are long and athletic, but young and untested so far this season (with Tyrel Thomas injured most of the season). Anytime Barriere gets a 1 on 1 matchup outside, he'll go after it. Hopefully Thomas is fully healthy by then because we'll need him.

The key is to get heat on Barriere as quickly as possible. The griz blitzed almost every play and "held" them to 34 points. I didn't see the Weber game but I'm guessing they followed a similar plan, along with successfully faking 3 punts to "create" extra possessions. Anytime MSU has the ball across midfield I hope they will also be aggressive on 4th down and short.

EWU is a very good team and they have the best QB in the country. The odds that they lose twice in row at home are very, very slim. MSU will have to play their best game of the season to win.

See my responses to Lord Vigo. A punt is the exact same thing as a turnover. WSU went 4-4 on 4th down instead of turning the ball over. There is zero functional difference between an INT, a fumble, a turnover on downs, or a punt. Those are ALL turnovers.

Since both teams have the same number of possessions in every single game (barring unusual things like a defensive score) the key is to not waste your own offensive possessions by turning the ball over with a punt.

Pretty simple gameplay. Cats are in 4 down territory from the first drive. Convert 4th downs and they win. Turn the ball over-punt, fumble, whatever- and the Cats lose.

[TomCat88]

Dr. Peter Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical"?
Dr. Raymond Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath-of-God type stuff. Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky! Rivers and seas boiling!
Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
Winston Zeddmore: The dead rising from the grave!
Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, punts becoming turnovers - MASS HYSTERIA!
Mayor: Enough! I get the point! And what if you're wrong?
Dr. Peter Venkman: If we're wrong, then nothing happens. We'll go to jail. Peacefully. Quietly. We'll enjoy it. But if we're right, and we can stop this thing... Lenny... you will have saved the lives of millions of registered voters.

[Lord Vigo]

This is a totally weird misinterpretation.

For the entire season, the Cats offensive game plan has been 100% happy to go 3 and out or 6 and out and punt for field position. Especially with quality opponents like UW, WSU, and even PSU. Its a very old school football philosophy that works in certain circumstances.

You can't play for field position with EWU. You have to convert points on drives. Full stops. A punt is 100% as bad of a failure as a fumble or INT.

At the end of the game, it doesn't matter if the Cats score on explosive 70 yard runs from Mellot, a 3 play drive with 2 jump balls to McCutcheon, or 98 yards of Ifanse running between the tackles. The ONLY thing that matters is scoring. On every possible drive. "Control" is a stupid euphanism that entirely misses the point of what EWU is trying to do.

"Limiting possessions" is an equally stupid euphemism for "we just need to keep the clock running".

All those euphemisms are from coaching staffs that don't understand what football actually is in 2020 (Jamie Marshall would fit right in). Its fascinating how you dialed in on the turnover margin-which is only relevant because EWU's D strategy is focused on forcing turnovers instead of forcing punts-and ignored the 4th down conversion rate.

MSU is going to need to go for it at least 4 times on 4th down and convert 3 in order to win.

Nothing whatsoever to do with "ball control" or "limiting possessions" or whatever other hackneyed 50 year old cliche from the 70s you want to throw out. Those things completely and utterly miss the point of what you need to do to beat EWU.

You and I are essentially saying the same thing-- they need to sustain scoring drives. I still think it's weird to say it's been their gameplan to punt, but regardless, we agree that if they keep giving the ball back to the Eagles constantly, it's going to be extremely difficult to win.

The only difference is that you think it's stupid, cliche, hackneyed, revealing that I don't understand football, etc. if I suggest that, as part of sustaining scoring drives, they limit the number of opportunities EW has to score.

[bobcatfan123]

This is a totally weird misinterpretation.

For the entire season, the Cats offensive game plan has been 100% happy to go 3 and out or 6 and out and punt for field position. Especially with quality opponents like UW, WSU, and even PSU. Its a very old school football philosophy that works in certain circumstances.

You can't play for field position with EWU. You have to convert points on drives. Full stops. A punt is 100% as bad of a failure as a fumble or INT.

At the end of the game, it doesn't matter if the Cats score on explosive 70 yard runs from Mellot, a 3 play drive with 2 jump balls to McCutcheon, or 98 yards of Ifanse running between the tackles. The ONLY thing that matters is scoring. On every possible drive. "Control" is a stupid euphanism that entirely misses the point of what EWU is trying to do.

"Limiting possessions" is an equally stupid euphemism for "we just need to keep the clock running".

All those euphemisms are from coaching staffs that don't understand what football actually is in 2020 (Jamie Marshall would fit right in). Its fascinating how you dialed in on the turnover margin-which is only relevant because EWU's D strategy is focused on forcing turnovers instead of forcing punts-and ignored the 4th down conversion rate.

MSU is going to need to go for it at least 4 times on 4th down and convert 3 in order to win.

Nothing whatsoever to do with "ball control" or "limiting possessions" or whatever other hackneyed 50 year old cliche from the 70s you want to throw out. Those things completely and utterly miss the point of what you need to do to beat EWU.

You and I are essentially saying the same thing-- they need to sustain scoring drives. I still think it's weird to say it's been their gameplan to punt, but regardless, we agree that if they keep giving the ball back to the Eagles constantly, it's going to be extremely difficult to win.

The only difference is that you think it's stupid, cliche, hackneyed, revealing that I don't understand football, etc. if I suggest that, as part of sustaining scoring drives, they limit the number of opportunities EW has to score.

You don’t have to be a football genius to understand what lord is saying. Eastern won’t score on every single drive with our defense. Eating some clock and scoring helps limit some opportunities. I don’t understand the Petty arguing this week

[083190]

It comes down to one thing...How much can the defense "affect" Barriere. Getting hits on him is essential.

[91catAlum]

It comes down to one thing...How much can the defense "affect" Barriere. Getting hits on him is essential.

Exactly. We need to pressure Barriere to get rid of the ball quickly or eat it, thus forcing more punt turnovers. See, we’re all on the same page here!

[Lord Vigo]

This is a totally weird misinterpretation.

For the entire season, the Cats offensive game plan has been 100% happy to go 3 and out or 6 and out and punt for field position. Especially with quality opponents like UW, WSU, and even PSU. Its a very old school football philosophy that works in certain circumstances.

You can't play for field position with EWU. You have to convert points on drives. Full stops. A punt is 100% as bad of a failure as a fumble or INT.

At the end of the game, it doesn't matter if the Cats score on explosive 70 yard runs from Mellot, a 3 play drive with 2 jump balls to McCutcheon, or 98 yards of Ifanse running between the tackles. The ONLY thing that matters is scoring. On every possible drive. "Control" is a stupid euphanism that entirely misses the point of what EWU is trying to do.

"Limiting possessions" is an equally stupid euphemism for "we just need to keep the clock running".

All those euphemisms are from coaching staffs that don't understand what football actually is in 2020 (Jamie Marshall would fit right in). Its fascinating how you dialed in on the turnover margin-which is only relevant because EWU's D strategy is focused on forcing turnovers instead of forcing punts-and ignored the 4th down conversion rate.

MSU is going to need to go for it at least 4 times on 4th down and convert 3 in order to win.

Nothing whatsoever to do with "ball control" or "limiting possessions" or whatever other hackneyed 50 year old cliche from the 70s you want to throw out. Those things completely and utterly miss the point of what you need to do to beat EWU.

You and I are essentially saying the same thing-- they need to sustain scoring drives. I still think it's weird to say it's been their gameplan to punt, but regardless, we agree that if they keep giving the ball back to the Eagles constantly, it's going to be extremely difficult to win.

The only difference is that you think it's stupid, cliche, hackneyed, revealing that I don't understand football, etc. if I suggest that, as part of sustaining scoring drives, they limit the number of opportunities EW has to score.

You don’t have to be a football genius to understand what lord is saying. Eastern won’t score on every single drive with our defense. Eating some clock and scoring helps limit some opportunities. I don’t understand the Petty arguing this week

Same.

Honestly when I posted my original opinion that I think the Cats would benefit from keeping the EW offense off the field, I figured I’d get push back for stating the obvious…

[coochorama42]

I am in strong disagreement with most everyone here. Again, I think that MSU has a better defense than EWU does an offense. I think the MSU offense is significantly better than the EWU defense.

Offensively, I believe MSU will show different looks early so that EWU has to defend sideline-to-sideline. Then they will get Ifanse 25+ touches and the offense will look just like it did against everyone else. I am punting on 4th down and forcing the EWU offense to sustain long drives. EWU's defense depends on other offenses to try to beat the EWU offense rather than do what works for them. Vigen has enough experience to avoid falling into that trap.

I do not believe blitzing Barriere is the right decision. Again, I think MSU will invite EWU to run the football. When Barriere throws, he will face coverage that will force him to work through his progressions and ultimately throw into the middle of the field. If the defense works as planned, pressure will be generated from a three- or four-man rush having time to collapse the pocket and perhaps even get a sack. If EWU does run the ball, they are taking the game out of the hands of the presumptive Walter Payton co-favorite to do so. It is a win-win for the MSU defense, especially as their run defense is very good with O'Reilly back. MSU is likely the only BSC school capable of running this particular defense because they have extraordinary depth (when healthy) on the defensive line and in the secondary. Moreover, they have a number of players that can play positionless football in the FCS. I expect Andersen to play a Jamal Adams-like role against EWU (DE, LB, and CB/S). Okada already plays as both a LB and a slot corner. You can make a solid argument as well that Hardy and Grebe can drop into zone coverage if you need it. Grebe already demonstrated that earlier this year and Hardy has lined up at LB in the past. With this personnel, you can force EWU to prepare to defend against a six man blitz but only actually see three coming.

This defense has been used very successfully at the FBS level and in the NFL against QBs with similar skill-sets to that of Barriere. It is a rare defense at the FCS level that has the talent and depth to execute it. I am confident MSU does.

[CatsFan10]

This is a totally weird misinterpretation.

For the entire season, the Cats offensive game plan has been 100% happy to go 3 and out or 6 and out and punt for field position. Especially with quality opponents like UW, WSU, and even PSU. Its a very old school football philosophy that works in certain circumstances.

You can't play for field position with EWU. You have to convert points on drives. Full stops. A punt is 100% as bad of a failure as a fumble or INT.

At the end of the game, it doesn't matter if the Cats score on explosive 70 yard runs from Mellot, a 3 play drive with 2 jump balls to McCutcheon, or 98 yards of Ifanse running between the tackles. The ONLY thing that matters is scoring. On every possible drive. "Control" is a stupid euphanism that entirely misses the point of what EWU is trying to do.

"Limiting possessions" is an equally stupid euphemism for "we just need to keep the clock running".

All those euphemisms are from coaching staffs that don't understand what football actually is in 2020 (Jamie Marshall would fit right in). Its fascinating how you dialed in on the turnover margin-which is only relevant because EWU's D strategy is focused on forcing turnovers instead of forcing punts-and ignored the 4th down conversion rate.

MSU is going to need to go for it at least 4 times on 4th down and convert 3 in order to win.

Nothing whatsoever to do with "ball control" or "limiting possessions" or whatever other hackneyed 50 year old cliche from the 70s you want to throw out. Those things completely and utterly miss the point of what you need to do to beat EWU.

You and I are essentially saying the same thing-- they need to sustain scoring drives. I still think it's weird to say it's been their gameplan to punt, but regardless, we agree that if they keep giving the ball back to the Eagles constantly, it's going to be extremely difficult to win.

The only difference is that you think it's stupid, cliche, hackneyed, revealing that I don't understand football, etc. if I suggest that, as part of sustaining scoring drives, they limit the number of opportunities EW has to score.

You don’t have to be a football genius to understand what lord is saying. Eastern won’t score on every single drive with our defense. Eating some clock and scoring helps limit some opportunities. I don’t understand the Petty arguing this week

Same.

Honestly when I posted my original opinion that I think the Cats would benefit from keeping the EW offense off the field, I figured I’d get push back for stating the obvious…

This has to be the most absurd thread I’ve seen in awhile. If you truly believe we should walk in there and have short drives and that a punt that puts them inside their 20 is the same as a turn over you’re a load of bologna. We probably won’t score every drive. But I don’t believe that’s a fail. We can play field position (if we have to) because if they have to drive 80 yards on us vs 30 cuz we went for it for no good reason, that’s 80 yards worth of TA, DH, and TO, CB mauling your players. I’m not a betting man but I’ll bet on this team any week. EB Has ZERO yards for ZERO touchdowns when he doesn’t have the ball. Win the turn over battle and run the ball. It got us to the semis last year.

If it ain’t broke…

[CatsFan10]

I will edit: I DO agree and see the fact we cannot be conservative in the fact that we can’t go run,run,run, punt. That will get frustrating and will not work. EWU WILL score, how much? Idk. As much as we gas up their offense, same to our defense.

There will need to be some shots, the same run game against Weber might not get it done against EWU. Just need to see how it plays out. Keys: pound the rock if able, take some shots, get some turn overs, get creative, go for it? … if it makes sense yeah step up and get the 2-3 yards. But we can’t have third and longs and run 6 yard crossing routes short of the sticks.

[onceacat]

This is a totally weird misinterpretation.

For the entire season, the Cats offensive game plan has been 100% happy to go 3 and out or 6 and out and punt for field position. Especially with quality opponents like UW, WSU, and even PSU. Its a very old school football philosophy that works in certain circumstances.

You can't play for field position with EWU. You have to convert points on drives. Full stops. A punt is 100% as bad of a failure as a fumble or INT.

At the end of the game, it doesn't matter if the Cats score on explosive 70 yard runs from Mellot, a 3 play drive with 2 jump balls to McCutcheon, or 98 yards of Ifanse running between the tackles. The ONLY thing that matters is scoring. On every possible drive. "Control" is a stupid euphanism that entirely misses the point of what EWU is trying to do.

"Limiting possessions" is an equally stupid euphemism for "we just need to keep the clock running".

All those euphemisms are from coaching staffs that don't understand what football actually is in 2020 (Jamie Marshall would fit right in). Its fascinating how you dialed in on the turnover margin-which is only relevant because EWU's D strategy is focused on forcing turnovers instead of forcing punts-and ignored the 4th down conversion rate.

MSU is going to need to go for it at least 4 times on 4th down and convert 3 in order to win.

Nothing whatsoever to do with "ball control" or "limiting possessions" or whatever other hackneyed 50 year old cliche from the 70s you want to throw out. Those things completely and utterly miss the point of what you need to do to beat EWU.

You and I are essentially saying the same thing-- they need to sustain scoring drives. I still think it's weird to say it's been their gameplan to punt, but regardless, we agree that if they keep giving the ball back to the Eagles constantly, it's going to be extremely difficult to win.

The only difference is that you think it's stupid, cliche, hackneyed, revealing that I don't understand football, etc. if I suggest that, as part of sustaining scoring drives, they limit the number of opportunities EW has to score.

You don’t have to be a football genius to understand what lord is saying. Eastern won’t score on every single drive with our defense. Eating some clock and scoring helps limit some opportunities. I don’t understand the Petty arguing this week

Same.

Honestly when I posted my original opinion that I think the Cats would benefit from keeping the EW offense off the field, I figured I’d get push back for stating the obvious…

This has to be the most absurd thread I’ve seen in awhile. If you truly believe we should walk in there and have short drives and that a punt that puts them inside their 20 is the same as a turn over you’re a load of bologna. We probably won’t score every drive. But I don’t believe that’s a fail. We can play field position (if we have to) because if they have to drive 80 yards on us vs 30 cuz we went for it for no good reason, that’s 80 yards worth of TA, DH, and TO, CB mauling your players. I’m not a betting man but I’ll bet on this team any week. EB Has ZERO yards for ZERO touchdowns when he doesn’t have the ball. Win the turn over battle and run the ball. It got us to the semis last year.

If it ain’t broke…

Have you watched EWU this year? Field position is 100% irrelevant. Yes, a punt that puts EWU inside their own 20 is EXACTLY the same as a turnover.

I think the issue I have with Vigo is the notion that the key is "sustained" drives...by which I understand to mean a gameplan like in Ogden where we keep the clock running as long as possible in the name of keeping EB off the field.

My issue is that it doesn't matter if the Cats score explosively in <2 minute drives or 10 minute slugfests. What matters is getting a TD on a high percentage of possessions. Eating clock without scoring is 100% pointless. And bottling up big play potential in order to keep the clock running is counterproductive...if the game plan is to eat clock, that means that the Eagles D can load up the box and we keep running at 2 yards per carry and eventually punt. (See the Weber or Wyoming games for what this strategy looks like in practice).

At any rate, that's exactly what EWU wants. They want MSU to play ball control & they will count on eventually forcing a punt, getting a takeaway, or forcing a field goal (sort of the old TG defensive gameplan).

Both teams get exactly the same number of possessions. So if we limit EWUs chances on the offense, we equally limit our own chances to score. Which might work if we are up by 2 TDS, but its going to cause problems if we are playing from behind.

And if our O is truly better than EWUs D, which many posters here think is true (I'm inclined to agree) then we want as many possessions as possible.