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I checked his source. The numbers are all students, graduate and undergraduate, resident and nonresident.
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well, I'm going to do it anyway. Check "Montana State University-Quick Facts 2020"
Breaks it all down individually by school, grad and under grad...
Undergrad 14,240. Grad 2,009= 16,249.
Sounds like a couple of spots are about to open up. Colorado State and Air Force are set to announce they'll be joining the AAC in the next week or so. SDSU and Boise both said no thanks to the AAC. There has been talk that should any MW teams leave NDSU is their top target.
Listening to the Boise radio station today it sounds like the Mountain West conference might be content to not add anyone and just leave it at 10 team conference for now. They also talked about a couple of Texas schools but I don’t remember which ones. They did not talk about North Dakota State but it was just a couple of radio announcers and the sports writer who has covered Boise State for about 100 years. So just speculation but interesting nonetheless.
"Confidence is contagious. So is a lack of confidence." Vince Lombardi
It’s no R&R, but they discuss a lot of possibilities on this podcast...even the Montana schools specifically.
What if MSU pulled a move like Texas A&M and made the jump first or without um. Losing the rivalry w UT sucked but their program grew tremendously when they moved to the SEC. Manziel also had a hand in that.
MSU would need to continue building infrastructure at an incredibly fast rate while adding faculty and staff to support that growth. Infrastructure is doable, but the housing market would be a huge barrier unless there is a statewide change (think: significantly increased tuition) to increase faculty salaries and pay staff a living wage in this market.
I've been against moving up in the past, but I'm warming up to it now. It just seems to be the way things are moving now and if we don't get on board we'll be left behind. I don't think it needs to be done immediately, but I certainly don't believe we'll want to be one of the last ones on board.
As far as um goes, f**k them. We can still play them, we just need to serve our interests first.
UM is the university equivalent of Axe Body Spray and essential oils.
The same way UM-Missoula wasn't moving up without us when their program/school was in a better position, we aren't moving up without them now.
I hope we stay where we are until the FBS implodes in 5-10 years. At that point we can join the new second level (G5/upper FCS). I'd much rather be in the top 15 in the FCS and have realistic dreams of a national championship game than be a middle of the road MW school hoping to qualify for a random December bowl game.
Eastwood, did not make it. Ball out! Recovered, by Montana State!! The Bobcats hold!!! The Bobcats hold!!!
MSU would need to continue building infrastructure at an incredibly fast rate while adding faculty and staff to support that growth. Infrastructure is doable, but the housing market would be a huge barrier unless there is a statewide change (think: significantly increased tuition) to increase faculty salaries and pay staff a living wage in this market.
I haven't listened to the podcast above yet but if your comment is referencing something discussed there why would enrollment be an issue. We aren't exactly a small school (are we?).
Do FBS schools put any of their tv money back into their general fund or does it all stay in athletics. If we moved some of that new money into salaries (and not just for the President and administrators) I would think that would help.
Eastwood, did not make it. Ball out! Recovered, by Montana State!! The Bobcats hold!!! The Bobcats hold!!!
I'm also starting to warm up to the idea of moving up. What I see that has changed the most that caused me to change my thinking is that the University as a whole has positioned itself to be very successful. It's not just about moving up for the sake of moving up, it's moving up to align MSU with it's peer Universities. From my prospective we have a lot more in common with the University of Wyoming and Utah State than we do with Northern Colorado and Eastern Washington. The other main reason is that the bottom end of FCS is bloating itself with what ought to be Division II schools. The guys on that podcast mentioned that the FCS tournament will probably expand to 32 teams, and that's because of the number of schools moving up from D2. That makes the FCS less attractive in my eyes.
Over the years MSU was considered the "dead weight" when considering UM and MSU moving to FBS, and it had only to do with success on the football field. Fact is, neither University was ready. MSU improved not only on football success but also University success to the point where UM would be considered the dead weight for such a movement. Money talks, ****** walks, and I think this time the regents would be open to an MSU only move to FBS if the right conference situation arose.
I was referencing something that TomCat88 said that I generally agree with. In order to be competitive at all in the FBS, you'll need 20k+ students. We cannot get there from here right now unless some major issues are addressed at the statewide level (academic funding). As I understand it, athletics money/revenue stay in athletics. I can see "moving up" if there are going to be three levels of Division I football, but if it stays the same, our football program would struggle to be competitive in the Mountain West - the best case scenario is that you'd replicate Boise State's success when they made the move. You could do worse than turning into a Nevada, Appalachian State, Georgia Southern, or Marshall type program. The worst case scenario: Idaho.
I generally find myself in favor of moving up just because the football gets a little better - especially if you end up in a conference with Boise State. I think MSU is well-positioned to out-recruit most of the Mountain West (especially if Air Force and Colorado State move on) because of our location. I mean, Hawaii and San Diego are fantastic locations, but they offer something completely different than Bozeman. I think we generally offer more to a college student than do Las Vegas, Reno, Logan, Laramie, Fresno, and perhaps even San Jose and Albuquerque.
I haven't listened to the podcast above yet but if your comment is referencing something discussed there why would enrollment be an issue. We aren't exactly a small school (are we?).
Do FBS schools put any of their tv money back into their general fund or does it all stay in athletics. If we moved some of that new money into salaries (and not just for the President and administrators) I would think that would help.
I was referencing something that TomCat88 said that I generally agree with. In order to be competitive at all in the FBS, you'll need 20k+ students. We cannot get there from here right now unless some major issues are addressed at the statewide level (academic funding). As I understand it, athletics money/revenue stay in athletics. I can see "moving up" if there are going to be three levels of Division I football, but if it stays the same, our football program would struggle to be competitive in the Mountain West - the best case scenario is that you'd replicate Boise State's success when they made the move. You could do worse than turning into a Nevada, Appalachian State, Georgia Southern, or Marshall type program. The worst case scenario: Idaho.
I generally find myself in favor of moving up just because the football gets a little better - especially if you end up in a conference with Boise State. I think MSU is well-positioned to out-recruit most of the Mountain West (especially if Air Force and Colorado State move on) because of our location. I mean, Hawaii and San Diego are fantastic locations, but they offer something completely different than Bozeman. I think we generally offer more to a college student than do Las Vegas, Reno, Logan, Laramie, Fresno, and perhaps even San Jose and Albuquerque.
I haven't listened to the podcast above yet but if your comment is referencing something discussed there why would enrollment be an issue. We aren't exactly a small school (are we?).
Do FBS schools put any of their tv money back into their general fund or does it all stay in athletics. If we moved some of that new money into salaries (and not just for the President and administrators) I would think that would help.
Are you saying as a public institution we need 20,000+ enrollment to be competitive at the FBS level, or just in general. There are definitely schools under 20k that are and have been competitive at least within their conference. TCU, Baylor, Stanford, Miami, Louisiana Tech, Liberty, Coastal Carolina just to name a few.
I'm in full support of MSU and UM moving up into the Mountain West Conference. My biggest reason being MSU and UM invest much more in athletics then their current peer institutions, it couldn't have been more clear watching the PSU game. There is good and bad to all of this, it unfortunately means we won't be chasing a national title anytime soon unless there is a total realignment in FBS football, which i agree there should be. There are only 5 conferences in FBS football that realistically competing for national championships at that level. The rest are competing for bad bowls, so change that. Create FBS2 that is the grouping of similar Universities to Montana State, CSU, Wyoming, NDSU, Nevada, Fresno, UM and all the other schools similar across the country. Unfortunately we are about to witness a total debacle if Air Force and CSU go the the AAC, which is a disaster for both schools. I'm also in favor of creating three mega conferences across FBS2. West, Central and East that compete like the FCS for a national championship. I'm all for change, but if your gonna change do it the right way.
I was referencing something that TomCat88 said that I generally agree with. In order to be competitive at all in the FBS, you'll need 20k+ students. We cannot get there from here right now unless some major issues are addressed at the statewide level (academic funding). As I understand it, athletics money/revenue stay in athletics. I can see "moving up" if there are going to be three levels of Division I football, but if it stays the same, our football program would struggle to be competitive in the Mountain West - the best case scenario is that you'd replicate Boise State's success when they made the move. You could do worse than turning into a Nevada, Appalachian State, Georgia Southern, or Marshall type program. The worst case scenario: Idaho.
I generally find myself in favor of moving up just because the football gets a little better - especially if you end up in a conference with Boise State. I think MSU is well-positioned to out-recruit most of the Mountain West (especially if Air Force and Colorado State move on) because of our location. I mean, Hawaii and San Diego are fantastic locations, but they offer something completely different than Bozeman. I think we generally offer more to a college student than do Las Vegas, Reno, Logan, Laramie, Fresno, and perhaps even San Jose and Albuquerque.
I haven't listened to the podcast above yet but if your comment is referencing something discussed there why would enrollment be an issue. We aren't exactly a small school (are we?).
Do FBS schools put any of their tv money back into their general fund or does it all stay in athletics. If we moved some of that new money into salaries (and not just for the President and administrators) I would think that would help.
I think the only way for MSU to reach 20K+ students is to either close all the smaller universities or drop the admission standards even lower than they are today. I don't like either of those choices. Montana just isn't big enough to support one 20K school, much less two, and there are only so many out of state students we can pull in.
The FBS plays better football (they have a higher floor so nobody is playing PSU after week 3) in better facilities (see PSU again) but I like having the playoffs to look forward to. Boise State seems to be a huge outlier so our best case is probably the App State and Georgia Southerns of the world which I guess would be ok.
Ultimately I think we're in the best position to move up than we have been at any time, regardless of if the fans/alumni actually want it to happen. The university is growing and we have a growth-oriented president but just as important, the other school that's part of the package deal is a football school so the state of their university doesn't matter. In the past, when UM-Missoula wanted to move up, things were going well for them but we were steps behind in multiple ways. Today their school might be failing but the football team is doing well so they would be on board. And yes, there are too many powerful fans of that school for it to be an MSU-only move.
Eastwood, did not make it. Ball out! Recovered, by Montana State!! The Bobcats hold!!! The Bobcats hold!!!
I'm in full support of MSU and UM moving up into the Mountain West Conference. My biggest reason being MSU and UM invest much more in athletics then their current peer institutions, it couldn't have been more clear watching the PSU game. There is good and bad to all of this, it unfortunately means we won't be chasing a national title anytime soon unless there is a total realignment in FBS football, which i agree there should be. There are only 5 conferences in FBS football that realistically competing for national championships at that level. The rest are competing for bad bowls, so change that. Create FBS2 that is the grouping of similar Universities to Montana State, CSU, Wyoming, NDSU, Nevada, Fresno, UM and all the other schools similar across the country. Unfortunately we are about to witness a total debacle if Air Force and CSU go the the AAC, which is a disaster for both schools. I'm also in favor of creating three mega conferences across FBS2. West, Central and East that compete like the FCS for a national championship. I'm all for change, but if your gonna change do it the right way.
My main reason for not wanting to move up is because of what you typed above. Let me correct that. If we move to the FBS we will NEVER contend for a national title again. We would be forever destined to reach to top of the ladder every year, which means playing in some goofy bowl game in some random city. That is, unless... as you state - they completely reshuffle the divisions and have a true playoff system (at least 16 teams) for the 2nd tier programs.
I'm in full support of MSU and UM moving up into the Mountain West Conference. My biggest reason being MSU and UM invest much more in athletics then their current peer institutions, it couldn't have been more clear watching the PSU game. There is good and bad to all of this, it unfortunately means we won't be chasing a national title anytime soon unless there is a total realignment in FBS football, which i agree there should be. There are only 5 conferences in FBS football that realistically competing for national championships at that level. The rest are competing for bad bowls, so change that. Create FBS2 that is the grouping of similar Universities to Montana State, CSU, Wyoming, NDSU, Nevada, Fresno, UM and all the other schools similar across the country. Unfortunately we are about to witness a total debacle if Air Force and CSU go the the AAC, which is a disaster for both schools. I'm also in favor of creating three mega conferences across FBS2. West, Central and East that compete like the FCS for a national championship. I'm all for change, but if your gonna change do it the right way.
My main reason for not wanting to move up is because of what you typed above. Let me correct that. If we move to the FBS we will NEVER contend for a national title again. We would be forever destined to reach to top of the ladder every year, which means playing in some goofy bowl game in some random city. That is, unless... as you state - they completely reshuffle the divisions and have a true playoff system (at least 16 teams) for the 2nd tier programs.
I think that's key too. In 2019, U of Texas had about $160M in revenue from football alone. Louisiana-Monroe, who is also FBS, had less than $7M. There's no reason those two schools should be in the same division of football. I'd imagine the top and bottom of the FCS are a pretty stark contrast too. Right now schools have to position themselves to be where the revenue is right for them. I say let the P-5 do their thing because the rest of the world isn't competing with them. Create a G-5 and upper tier FCS division and play for a whole different championship. MSU isn't terribly far from being competitive in that new division. But keep out schools like Sac St, PSU, Drake, San Diego, etc. Maybe make the benchmark a budget amount or, say 12-15k average attendance minimum. That could be a fun league.
What holds a split of FBS back is money. Bowls games generate tv revenue and money for teams and conference. The playoffs currently do the same. How do you replace that. If your power 5 playoff expanded, will you get enough viewers and interest from networks for a second tier championship to give the other conferences incentive too split
What holds a split of FBS back is money. Bowls games generate tv revenue and money for teams and conference. The playoffs currently do the same. How do you replace that. If your power 5 playoff expanded, will you get enough viewers and interest from networks for a second tier championship to give the other conferences incentive too split
Money isn't what would hold off a split, it's what would encourage it. The P5 will eventually decide that there's no reason to share their tv money with the G5 and just go their own way. When that happens the top 1/4 to 1/3 of the FCS can join the G5 and create the new 2nd tier of D1 football. The crappy bowl sponsors can sponsor individual games in the playoff bracket if they want. Then the rest of the FCS can either stay where they are or drop down to D2 (more likely as there will be no tv money available for these schools).
Eastwood, did not make it. Ball out! Recovered, by Montana State!! The Bobcats hold!!! The Bobcats hold!!!
I’d still cheer for the CATS every day of the year but it would be anticlimactic. Who gives a sh!t about playing in the Kirby Vacuum you Suck Bowl game.
We are not going fbs, it. Was a disaster for the vandals. I can see the landscape changing with a new playoff division. When that happens the big sky will be a playoff conference, we may jettison uncu, eweu, pusu, and suc st and poly Anna. I could see WY joining us.
