Letter & Response from Chronicle's Hinkelman

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BozoneCat
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Post by BozoneCat » Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:21 am

Eastcoastgriz wrote:
El_Gato wrote:
I wonder if he has any idea the # of different stories of Hauck and his less-than-respectful attitude toward anything and everything MSU. If he IS aware of all of them, does he truly believe they're ALL false? Even if they were,...
Maybe he is only interested in publishing the truth and not all the garbage some cat fans try to sell?
You know what? You must be right. I'm sorry it took so long for me to get it. Bobby really is a nice guy... I mean, he must be if you say so. I think I will name a son after him. While I'm at it, I should probably send the Vatican preliminary canonization papers with records of all his good deeds.

Now you won't have to post over here. Go away.


GO CATS GO!!!

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Post by GFGriz » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:10 am

grizzh8r wrote:
GFGriz wrote:CatFamily started this out by demanding that a newspaper reporter be a positive Bobcat "fan." Hink properly replied that he is a reporter, not a fan. Fans, by their nature, are not objective. A reporter shouldn't be disrespectful of anyone, but if he or she has an agenda, i.e., a favoratism underlying his or her writing, readers won't get news or facts, they'll get spin, whether it's sugar-coating facts that are bad, or bad-mouthing when things are good. Reporters who are "fans" are generally covering up for the fact they are bad reporters.
Soooo..... You are saying that if Rial Cummings of the Missoulian is a Griz fan, he shouldn't be reporting on the Griz? Better yet, because he is a Griz fan, he is covering up the fact that he is a crappy reporter? :-s Read on...
CatFamily wrote:...Maybe Hinkelman and the Chronicle should take a few notes from Rial Cummings, who though a strong supporter of the Grizzlies, also is very positive about their opponents. But none the less he writes very positively about the Grizzlies and this base on facts about the team Mr. Hinkelman...
What's the evidence that Cummings is a "strong supporter" or "fan" of the Griz? That "CatFamily" says so? Not good enough. But I'm not here to defend Cummings. I don't read him much, if at all. The gold standard for sports journalistism in Montana is without doubt the Tribune, and the best practitioner is George Gies, who covers the Griz for the Tribune. No one can read his writing and tell whether he loves or hates the Griz. He just reports it straight. Scott Mansch of the Tribune is a State fan and makes no bones about it. He writes love letters, not reports, and when State is down, he writes like a jilted lover. Sounds like "Hink" wants to be a reporter, not a fan. That's best.



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Post by mchammer » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:16 am

Then he should be a reporter and report something. His first column assumed a different calling. Reporters should report, and let fans be fans, whether he understands them or not.



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Post by kmax » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:19 am

GFGriz wrote:Sounds like "Hink" wants to be a reporter, not a fan. That's best.
Once again I agree with that. My question and problem with "Hink" is if this is the case, why take up a fan/rivalry argument and essentially flip the bird to anyone who doesn't agree with him.


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Down With the Foe!
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Post by Down With the Foe! » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:38 am

Wow- what else can be said after reading all of that?


"Nice article Hink, and welcome to the family?"


:bag:

Mission accomplished....a good reporter should be a little controversial.


:P

You guys need to chill, if we can live with Rial - you can for sure handle "Hink"
Last edited by Down With the Foe! on Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Post by Platinumcat » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:53 am

Sounds like "Hink" wants to be a reporter, not a fan. That's best.[/quote]

GF Griz,
I agree that is the best policy. But, AGAIN, his initial article was like someone saying "yes", but shaking his head no.



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Post by BozoneCat » Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:47 pm

Now I've heard it all. George Geise, the "neutral gold standard for sports journalism in Montana"?!?!?! :shock: :shock: :shock: Are we talking about the same "grizzly George"? I'm not making a knock on George as a journalist, I think he is very good, but he is certainly far from an unbiased reporter on the grizzlies.


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GFGriz
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Post by GFGriz » Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:32 pm

mchammer wrote:Then he should be a reporter and report something. His first column assumed a different calling. Reporters should report, and let fans be fans, whether he understands them or not.
He reported on State fans, and the fact of their obsessive and bizarre hatred of Coach Hauck. Heck, that seems to be the guiding principle behind this board, as is PROVEN by so many of the posts. It's a legitimate phenomenon that gets written up every time an objective reporter comes anywhere near State, in much the same way reporters write about the phenomenon of Griz fans. The only difference is that the focus of Griz fans are the Griz and their coach, while the focus of State fans are ................. the Griz and their coach.



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BozoneCat
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Post by BozoneCat » Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:35 pm

GFGriz wrote:The only difference is that the focus of Griz fans are the Griz and their coach, while the focus of State fans are ................. the Griz and their coach.
Which clearly explains why you are posting over here on Bobcat Nation. :roll: :bs:


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Post by GFGriz » Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:58 pm

BozoneCat wrote:
GFGriz wrote:The only difference is that the focus of Griz fans are the Griz and their coach, while the focus of State fans are ................. the Griz and their coach.
Which clearly explains why you are posting over here on Bobcat Nation. :roll: :bs:
I'm just an objective sports fan, cheering for the Griz, the Saints, and State.



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Post by mchammer » Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:01 pm

Yes you can say that he is reporting about the fans, but I would say that he is talking about a fairly small group of fans. IMO, most Bobcat fans really aren't concerned about BH, and certainly don't hate him or UM. So why would anyone want to write about this subject? Because it might be sensational or controversial. It's thought to be more interesting than delving into why MSU won the Men's All-sports Trophy and President's Cup. I would like to read about sports in the newspapers, the athletes not the fans.



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Post by AZCAT21 » Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:29 pm

the only thing that this idiot Hink was trying to do is get noticed. He figured his picture wouldn't be good enough so he instead wrote an idiotic article......good one dork, btw look at his picture in the paper again absolutely hilarious!!!!

But the one thing he did do is get a board of posters to think about his article far too long and stirred up enough drama to last a while. So lets forget about this guy and just laugh at his picture.



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Down With the Foe!
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Post by Down With the Foe! » Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:40 pm

AZCAT21 wrote:the only thing that this idiot Hink was trying to do is get noticed. He figured his picture wouldn't be good enough so he instead wrote an idiotic article......good one dork, btw look at his picture in the paper again absolutely hilarious!!!!

But the one thing he did do is get a board of posters to think about his article far too long and stirred up enough drama to last a while. So lets forget about this guy and just laugh at his picture.
ya,

works for my 5 year old.

good idea :thumbup:


Boooooo Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa - Go Griz!

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Post by El_Gato » Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:43 pm

Moderators, it appears that Mr. Foe is NOT familiar with our groundrules over here.

Foe, FYI, keep your smack on the smack board or ZIP IT!


Grizzlies: 2-5 when it matters most

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GOKATS
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Post by GOKATS » Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:46 pm

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Can you say geek? Now repeat it 999 times. :wink:


FTG!!
[quote="GrizinWashington"]The Griz suck.
[quote=" tampa_griz"] (because China isn't a part of "Asia") .....

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Post by CelticCat » Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:30 pm

We can nitpick his journalism but let's try to keep the personal attacks on Hink down.


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Post by GOKATS » Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:36 pm

My apology. :oops:

Just didn't think it was worth starting a smack thread.


FTG!!
[quote="GrizinWashington"]The Griz suck.
[quote=" tampa_griz"] (because China isn't a part of "Asia") .....

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Jeff Welsch
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Post by Jeff Welsch » Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:41 pm

Since first viewing this thread yesterday, I have been debating whether to respond. Conventional wisdom in the sports writing and coaching community is to avoid Internet message boards like the plague, but -- until now -- I've tended to view BobcatNation.com as a rare bastion of rationality and have appreciated my occasional stopovers here.

Because I've the civil discourse on this board, and because of my continuing commitment to connecting with Bobcat fans, I'll plow ahead nevertheless, probably destined for shark-infested waters.

So, here goes: Some of what I've read in this thread is so patently absurd it defies logic. The Chronicle's maroon flag a reflection of our school loyalties? Please. I'd conservatively estimate that 80 percent of the people who work here could care less about the Cat-Griz rivalry.

A few other thoughts:

* You want the Chronicle to "support" or be a "fan" of the Cats? All right, then what message exactly does at least one football story a day send to you? Show me another media outlet that does that and I'll tip my hat to whomever that is, and try to step it up here.

* If you find our coverage lacking, tell us WHERE it is lacking. One or two of you weren't happy with the Weber State coverage; fair enough, I can accept that we can always do better. But we did have two stories and eight photographs. Tell me who exceeded our efforts, and why. Be constructive.

* It seems message board fans, being on the extreme wing of fandom (c'mon, we all have to admit that), can't fathom a sports writer not being a fan. If we're not Bobcats, then surely we're Grizzlies or devoted to somebody else, and, well, if we're in Bozeman we should be MSU fans. No. I'm a fan of people who play sports, and I enjoy sports. Period. I like almost everybody I've dealt with at MSU, and hope they do well, but feel the same way about UM, Weber, PSU, etc. But I don't have emotional sports attachments to institutions - not even my alma mater, Arizona State.

* I will say again that I fervently believe that you as Bobcat fans and readers are better served if we AREN'T fans of the teams. As paying customers, I'd think you'd want somebody out there keeping an objective eye out for you, just the way you need the media to keep an objective eye out for government, etc. Without it, we have no credibility ... just look at Fox and CBS, among others. Does anybody really believe they're getting an objective, believable slant from either of these outlets? If we only seek out "positive" news on the Cats and "negative" news on the Griz, then you'd know you have to take everything we write with a grain of salt. And how would that help the Cats?

P.S.: It's remarkable to me that many of you guys get so bent out of shape about Hink's column or my piece on Bobby Hauck, and you completely ignore the many stories that do reflect positively on MSU, most recently the column I wrote last week on Nick Marudas. The same credibility gap thus exists, only in reverse. If your criticism doesn't come from an objective place, it doesn't have much credibility, either.

* Experience has shown me that the only way to avoid criticism on these boards is to be a shameless homer/apologist. Well, I worked with one of those writers in Corvallis, and while he was popular on OSU's message boards, nobody in our profession or in the athletic department respected him, and even the majority of OSU fans I knew felt that way. If we're not irritating you from time to time, we're not doing our jobs, and when we praise the Cats (e.g., Marudas), we need you to know it's authentic.

As I said, our "support" is in the amount of copy we provide on MSU -- more than any other media outlet, I'm certain (much to the chagrin of many of our readers who think we have WAY too much on the Cats). It isn't support as much as it's recognition that our readers want Cat news, and we have the opportunity to do something better than anybody else.

A final thought: The goal of a columnist is to provoke thought and water-cooler discussion. Like them or not, many of our columns, including Hink's, have people talking about what's in the Chronicle. I'm guessing in the past few years, you've been talking about what's NOT in the Chronicle.

All right. Fire away. Thanks for the vine and, again, if you have some constructive criticism, I'm all ears.

jeff welsch



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Post by eRat-a-Cat-er » Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:47 pm

It's all abt the Image's Image


What just thinkin' about the Griz does to most Cats! GO GRIZ!

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Post by bozbobcat » Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:57 pm

One of the improvements that the Chronicle could make on top of the many improvements made already is to note that the majority of Bobcat fans are good and intelligent people. It seems like some of the Chronicle staff talks down to us, and we would appreciate better. We have some damn good fans here and it would be great to hear it from the Chronicle. :thumbup: :thumbup: That basketball article last year made us mad. We have better attendance here than a lot of places, especially most of the Big Sky. By the way, the reason we don't like Hauck is because he refused to say the words "Montana" and "State" in the same sentence after we beat them in 2003. That's awfully poor sportsmanship.


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