Portland State

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:33 pm

Grizlaw wrote:
083190 wrote:You lost me a little bit, type slower so that I can keep up! Did Portland State play a different conference schedule? NO. Are they in a different conference now?-NO. If MSU loses would the conference records be different?-NO. Unless one of those things happened while I was asleep last night, then as you said, head to head matters.
Ok, per your instructions, I will type slower.

We're not comparing PSU and MSU for the conference auto-bid here; we're comparing them for an at-large selection. If we were comparing them for the conference auto-bid, then yes, it would make sense for the head-to-head meeting to be the deciding factor, because the auto-bid is decided based solely on conference records.

Since we're comparing the two for an at-large berth, though, we have to look at both teams' entire schedules, including non-conference games. Thus, the fact that MSU's nonconference losses are "worse" than Portland State's nonconference losses is relevant, as is the fact that Portland State's nonconference schedule was much tougher than MSU's. The head-to-head result is relevant also. Which one is "more" relevant? I don't know; we'll see what the committee decides.

Did that make more sense?

So if MSU had played Ohio State and Michigan and lost 55-7 and 63-0 to those teams. That would be better than MSU losing to a DIV II (who is #3 in DIV II preseason poll and haven't lost yet) and to UC Davis (bad loss yes, but how are the above losses not just as bad?). OSU and UM losses would tell me nothing more than the CATS got paid big money to play up. It is a way of just playing less games in my opinion as everyone will just say .. oh they played up, they could have done better had it been 1-AA teams etc. Well the fact is they chose to put those games on the schedule and they got whoooped. So you can take NO POSITIVES from that at all. ZERO in my opinion. It's a cop out for $$$

So if your a committee member and you are having trouble deciding from the logic above? What else is there?

=====> WOW they played head to head and MSU Thumped them. Case closed!

BobcatBulldog · Post by **BobcatBulldog** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:34 pm

GreenDay17 wrote:
BobcatBulldog wrote:
Let me make sure I get this straight, It better to have a team that scheduled losses to 1A programs and lost to MSU, than MSU who lost to Chadron and UC Davis, but beat PSU, and has a six game winning streak,
Don't forget that MSU also lost to EWU. MSU's losses are much worse than PSU's. Neither UCD or EWU have winning records.

I guess if thats the case whats more important who else you loose to or your head to head matchup. Also just for the hell of it who wins today MSU or PSU, because I think the team that has a better chance of winning the championship in December should be the one playing
From my perspective PSU wins today. The MSU game was by far the worst showing by PSU in a loss this season, and they played the game with both their QB and TB in their first game coming off of significant injuries.

Ok which is more important head to head or who you've lost to, you can only pick one. We are talking NCAA as a whole not just this case.

GreenDay17 · Post by **GreenDay17** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:42 pm

BobcatBulldog wrote: Ok which is more important head to head or who you've lost to, you can only pick one. We are talking NCAA as a whole not just this case.

I don't think it is as simple as which is more important. Both should be considered and weighed. If you look at the losses and see that they are relatively the same or equal then head-to-head results become the most important. If the losses are not remotely equal then head-to-head results mean much less.

Either way it would be like being required to go on a date and the only two chicks left to ask are both undesireable. One of them is still going to get invited.

Obviously if you are trying to determine order of finish in a conference then head-to-head ranks right behind overall conference record. Unfortunately choosing playoff teams is not as simple.

BobcatBulldog · Post by **BobcatBulldog** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:56 pm

GreenDay17 wrote:
BobcatBulldog wrote: Ok which is more important head to head or who you've lost to, you can only pick one. We are talking NCAA as a whole not just this case.

I don't think it is as simple as which is more important. Both should be considered and weighed. If you look at the losses and see that they are relatively the same or equal then head-to-head results become the most important. If the losses are not remotely equal then head-to-head results mean much less.

Either way it would be like being required to go on a date and the only two chicks left to ask are both undesireable. One of them is still going to get invited.

Obviously if you are trying to determine order of finish in a conference then head-to-head ranks right behind overall conference record. Unfortunately choosing playoff teams is not as simple.

Maybe thats the problem them we make these things to damn complicated, it should be cut and dry, college football makes these systems that try to account for a million different variables, when maybe they should just make it plain and simple.

1. 1A win loss record "I think last Saturday proved that anything can happen in football"
2. Head to head matchup
3. Strength of win's
4. Flip the damn coin.

tampa_griz · Post by **tampa_griz** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:13 pm

BobcatBulldog wrote:
GreenDay17 wrote:
BobcatBulldog wrote:
Let me make sure I get this straight, It better to have a team that scheduled losses to 1A programs and lost to MSU, than MSU who lost to Chadron and UC Davis, but beat PSU, and has a six game winning streak,
Don't forget that MSU also lost to EWU. MSU's losses are much worse than PSU's. Neither UCD or EWU have winning records.

I guess if thats the case whats more important who else you loose to or your head to head matchup. Also just for the hell of it who wins today MSU or PSU, because I think the team that has a better chance of winning the championship in December should be the one playing
From my perspective PSU wins today. The MSU game was by far the worst showing by PSU in a loss this season, and they played the game with both their QB and TB in their first game coming off of significant injuries.
Ok which is more important head to head or who you've lost to, you can only pick one. We are talking NCAA as a whole not just this case.

That's pretty impossible Bulldog. Every situation is going to have its own ambiguities and nuances. There's no magic formula. How bad did the team with the tougher schedule lose to the upper league teams? How good are the upper league opponents at their level? Has the lower league team (the won that lost its head-to-head) win convincingly at their level? So many questions that need answering.

I was pretty sure before reading kmax's thoughts on this matter that PSU would get the tie. But after reading some of his points I've admittedly had to rethink my position. I'd have a hard time deciding this one. If PSU and MSU had the same SOS and the same losses this year in terms of quality I'd definitely go with MSU thanks to their defeat of PSU. But because PSU was obviously no slouch and had a monster SOS I'd have to think about it.

In any case, if the dominoes fall this way that both teams end up at 7-4 and only one gets into the playoffs.....the one that doesn't get in doesn't have a solid case of "being robbed" of a playoff berth. Each team's fans will biasly argue the case for their team. And who could blame them?

GreenDay17 · Post by **GreenDay17** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:48 pm

Neither team deserves to be in the playoffs with 4 losses. And in a normal year they would not be invited. But this is not a normal year and somebody with 4 losses will probably get into the post-season.

All you can do is state your case and wait for the committee to make their decision. It sucks, but if either team were a definite playoff team then MSU shouldn't have lost to Chadron/EWU/UCD and PSU shouldn't have lost to MSU.

94VegasCat · Post by **94VegasCat** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:27 am

We played up last year and darn near won and then we beat the griz. We still didn't get a sniff from the Selection Committee. Who gives a rats a$$ what PSU did. Plain and simple, they lost to the two first placed teams in the conference. This should not even be a topic, I really hope the Selection Committee looks back over their notes and sees that they excluded MSU last year for the same reason they are considering PSU this year.

WYCAT · Post by **WYCAT** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:31 am

94VegasCat wrote:I really hope the Selection Committee looks back over their notes and sees that they excluded MSU last year for the same reason they are considering PSU this year.

Very good point Vegas. I had kinda forgotten that was Kramer's argument last year. Could we be headed for another tough non-invite only for exactly the opposite reasoning as the year before?