Kramer: After the events of yesterday.

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How best describes you feeling towards possibly losing Kramer

No matter what happens @ Idaho it is time for Kramer to go.
15
11%
If Kramer leaves for Idaho maybe it is for the best for MSU athletics
37
27%
I do not care if he stays or leaves just get it over with.
23
17%
I under stand if Kramer leaves, but I would really like him to stay
50
37%
We should do all within our powers to retain Kramer
10
7%
 
Total votes: 135

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Post by Cat Grad » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:43 am

Hell's Bells wrote:It would be ironic if Kramer applied to the vacancy at Miami :lol:

anyways i wonder if one can tell if a person is going down the wrong path. This marks the second time sombody involved with bobcat athletics has been charged with selling drugs by the missouri river task force. i wonder if austin showed some signes that he was dealing with coke
Well, I attended a few meetings which the Central Montana Drug Task Force commander presented on the epidemic we have here in central Montana; then I attended a meeting with the Justice Department and received conflicting information.

The Montana Drug representative made a blanket statement that Bozeman is the stronghold for cocaine in the state and that our prosecuting attorneys were only going to concentrate on dealers as they felt casual users were not the risk. The justice department stated the major problem the feds have is shutting the supply line into the state down and that the casual user is in fact the main dealers. The justice department went into great lengths to let us know our main distribution hubs for the tons and tons of stuff coming through the state come from the west and north and their hands are pretty much tied because they can't seem to get our legislature to open us up for the roadside checks, so by and large, Highways 2, 12 and 200 and I-90 sees this crap up and down the highways, they know it but are almost powerless to stop it. At least we get to see the folks in the Flathead getting some pretty big busts before they get to our schools.



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Post by STREETCAT » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:21 pm

Cat Grad wrote:
Hell's Bells wrote:It would be ironic if Kramer applied to the vacancy at Miami :lol:

anyways i wonder if one can tell if a person is going down the wrong path. This marks the second time sombody involved with bobcat athletics has been charged with selling drugs by the missouri river task force. i wonder if austin showed some signes that he was dealing with coke
Well, I attended a few meetings which the Central Montana Drug Task Force commander presented on the epidemic we have here in central Montana; then I attended a meeting with the Justice Department and received conflicting information.

The Montana Drug representative made a blanket statement that Bozeman is the stronghold for cocaine in the state and that our prosecuting attorneys were only going to concentrate on dealers as they felt casual users were not the risk. The justice department stated the major problem the feds have is shutting the supply line into the state down and that the casual user is in fact the main dealers. The justice department went into great lengths to let us know our main distribution hubs for the tons and tons of stuff coming through the state come from the west and north and their hands are pretty much tied because they can't seem to get our legislature to open us up for the roadside checks, so by and large, Highways 2, 12 and 200 and I-90 sees this crap up and down the highways, they know it but are almost powerless to stop it. At least we get to see the folks in the Flathead getting some pretty big busts before they get to our schools.
Good Post!!! I agree with the task force that drugs in montana will contiue to be an issue until road side tests are availible. But I dont foresee taht happening for a long time due to the fact that will bring about road side DUI stations, which has been fought here in mt for a long time!



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this sucks

Post by Five8 » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

well i just wanted to say my 2 sense...about the whole situation it's hard to blame this on Kramer...when he recruited these men he was looking at production on the field...and believe me they were outstanding atheletes. i've played and hung around with these players, thier good men but they made stupid decisions....and that's on them. Kramer didn't recruit them to baby sit them thier adults making thier own decision..even if thier horrible one's. clean up your act ya'll i wish you the best.
As for Kramer leaving it's hard to imagine MSU without him. It's the nature of the beast in coaching nothing is ever stable. this board is the reality of that...people will love ya when ya win and hate ya when you lose true FANS love ya no matter what. I was part of his first recruiting class that stuck it out through the ups and downs. i'm glad for the oppertunity that i was given. i wish nothing but the best Coach Krames.



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Post by GOKATS » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:53 pm

There is a great article in todays Chronicle about the recent event and Kramers reaction- it caught him completely by surprise.

Perhaps someone with the e-version can post it (I apologise if it's been posted and I missed it).


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Post by kmax » Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:25 pm

I was going to post the link to the story, but the text version (that the link goes to) is horribly fouled up with entire sections transposed and makes no sense. Below is a reproduction that I think I have gotten everything back in proper order so the article makes sense.
Coach calls drug allegations tragic

By TIM DUMAS Chronicle Sports Writer

Until Monday morning, Montana State football coach Mike Kramer was wondering how to fit Andre Fuller onto the cover of next year’s media guide and schedule poster.

By Monday afternoon, Kramer was trying to figure out how Fuller — who was a candidate for captain next season, who was third in a high school class of 500 students and whose mother is an administrator at the same school — could be caught in a drug ring.

“I haven’t slept a wink,” Kramer said Wednesday. “It’s the greatest tragedy that I could have imagined.”

Fuller, a junior cornerback whom teammate Will Claggett called “one of the leaders on the team,” was arrested Monday along with former MSU players Eddie Sullivan and Derrick Davis. The three were charged with dealing cocaine and marijuana.

Fuller, from Pompano Beach, is the second athlete from Florida with ties to Montana State to be arrested in the past six months. Former football player John Lebrum was charged — along with former basketball player Branden Miller of Milwaukee, Wis. — in the murder of Jason Wright in June.

As a result, Kramer said his program will no longer recruit players from Florida as long as he’s head coach, even though one current Floridian, linebacker Clive Lowe of Fort Lauderdale, is a success story.

“That spits in the face of Clive Lowe, who did everything right,” Kramer said.

The coach said that he never saw Fuller’s arrest coming.

“I had no idea until 10:31 a.m. (Monday) when Peter called me,” he said, referring to MSU athletic director Peter Fields. “I called Andre and told him he needed to report to the police, and he complied and he was there in 12 minutes.

“He immediately complied when I asked him to do it. Why couldn’t he have done that (listened) in June (when Fuller was originally charged)?”

In the wake of another group of arrests of out-of-state athletes, Kramer, a leading candidate for the vacant head coaching position at Idaho, said his program does everything it can to ensure that troubled individuals don’t make it to campus.

But he admitted that countless background checks through high school administrators and coaches sometimes aren’t enough to guarantee the athletes won’t land in trouble here.

“We tell them that what you do in a social setting reflects on all of us,” Kramer said. “Not just Mike Kramer or (school president) Geoff Gamble or Peter Fields, but (wives) Sandi Kramer, Patty Gamble and Debbie Fields. They all feel sullied and dirty for having been associated with Andre.”

With Florida out of the picture, what of California, where Sullivan, Davis and countless other recruits and transfers are from?

Kramer estimated that of the 680 athletes who have played for him at MSU, roughly 400 are from California. This past season, 28 were Californian; 41 hailed from Montana.

Many people in the Bozeman community, including alumni, wonder why Montana State continues to recruit players from California. “I’ve heard that myself,” Claggett said Wednesday from his Marysville, Calif., home, “and it makes me angry a little bit that we get such a bad rap. The thing that you have to understand is, you can get bad kids from anywhere.”

“The fact is,” Kramer added, “that this group (Fuller, Davis and Sullivan) cannot ever take away from what those other 680 guys accomplished.”

Nevertheless, Kramer acknowledged how the public is viewing his program.

“I think it’s shallow that people are saying that every one of Mike Kramer’s players are selling drugs,” he said, “but it’s being said. It’s part of the human experience.”

Still, Kramer shouldered part of the blame for Monday’s arrests.

“I started out as a teacher, and when not every one of your students get As, you feel responsible,” he said. “These guys obviously flunked and I feel responsible anytime a student flunks.”

Kramer, who normally doesn’t talk about skin color, addressed the racial overtones that inevitably come with such arrests.

“I’m fearful that because these guys (Fuller, Davis and Sullivan) are black, there’s going to be a backlash (against the African-Americans currently on the team).”

Claggett said the soft-spoken and deeply religious Fuller got in with the wrong crowd.

“You get going down one road and it’s hard to turn back,” he said, “but the thing with Andre is, and I really believe this, this is a black shadow on one part of his great life. He’s going to go on and do great things.”


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Post by GOKATS » Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:36 pm

Thanks, kmax!


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Post by CatFamily » Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:51 pm

Thanks too KMAX.... that is a great article and makes me even more respectful of Coach Kramer... and our program! I want Will Claggett to know we are concerned for him and his fellow teammates... but I am very impressed and proud of him and his support and attitude regarding this situation. You are a great player... but most important a good person. The TRUE MSU supporters and fans (the vast majority I believe of the fans) will not judge you based on race or where you have come from. So hang in there... all of you!


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Post by HelenaCat95 » Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:59 pm

Thanks for posting this.
I appreciate both Kramer and Claggett's comments, and think better of both of them.

One thing I don't understand is this part.
“I had no idea until 10:31 a.m. (Monday) when Peter called me,” he said, referring to MSU athletic director Peter Fields. “I called Andre and told him he needed to report to the police, and he complied and he was there in 12 minutes.

“He immediately complied when I asked him to do it. Why couldn’t he have done that (listened) in June (when Fuller was originally charged)?”


What does he mean by saying, "Why couldn't he have done that (listened) in June (when Fuller was originally charged)?"

What?? Fuller was originally charged in June and they waited until December to pick him up? Was that just a mis-print? Someone help me out here.



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Post by kmax » Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:09 pm

I noticed that too HC95 and couldn't quite make heads or tails of it. Not sure if it is an out of context quote or what but it definitely doesn't make sense given what we have been told about the case.


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Post by rtb » Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:10 pm

I think he meant, why couldn't fuller have listened to him earlier when he asked the players to follow the rules, etc.

I read that part of the article 3 or 4 times, before coming to that conclussion. Very confusing.


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Post by HelenaCat95 » Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:13 pm

I am very confused. It plainly says in June "when Fuller was originally charged".

Unless the reporter added in the parens part mistakenly (which has been known to happen), there is something missing to the story as we know it today.



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Post by GOKATS » Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:31 pm

I think it has to do with the way the story is written.

1. They don't charge you in June and wait to arrest you until December

2. If he had been charged in June he wouldn't have been on the team

Clearly, Kramer was caught completely off guard by the situation on Monday.

JMHO


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Post by kmax » Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:32 pm

HelenaCat95 wrote:I am very confused. It plainly says in June "when Fuller was originally charged".

Unless the reporter added in the parens part mistakenly (which has been known to happen), there is something missing to the story as we know it today.
I am guessing that is what has happened, as I said kind of an out of context quote and it was meant by Kramer more along the lines of how rtb interpreted it.


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Post by HelenaCat95 » Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:33 pm

kmax wrote:
HelenaCat95 wrote:I am very confused. It plainly says in June "when Fuller was originally charged".

Unless the reporter added in the parens part mistakenly (which has been known to happen), there is something missing to the story as we know it today.
I am guessing that is what has happened, as I said kind of an out of context quote and it was meant by Kramer more along the lines of how rtb interpreted it.
I am hoping, no praying that you are correct.



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Post by The Butcher » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:00 pm

I was shocked to see that in 7 years Kramer has had 680 players! How is that possible? Guys are getting kicked off or quitting the team at a ridicules rate… No wonder we lost those scholarships for inadequate graduation rates.



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Post by catbooster » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:19 pm

HelenaCat95 wrote:
kmax wrote:
HelenaCat95 wrote:I am very confused. It plainly says in June "when Fuller was originally charged".

Unless the reporter added in the parens part mistakenly (which has been known to happen), there is something missing to the story as we know it today.
I am guessing that is what has happened, as I said kind of an out of context quote and it was meant by Kramer more along the lines of how rtb interpreted it.
I am hoping, no praying that you are correct.
I also interpreted it as something mistakenly added by the reporter. Look at the following quotes from the article:
“I had no idea until 10:31 a.m. (Monday) when Peter called me,”

“We tell them that what you do in a social setting reflects on all of us,” Kramer said. “Not just Mike Kramer or (school president) Geoff Gamble or Peter Fields, but (wives) Sandi Kramer, Patty Gamble and Debbie Fields.

“The fact is,” Kramer added, “that this group (Fuller, Davis and Sullivan) cannot ever take away from what those other 680 guys accomplished.”
All the parts in parethesis look to be explanations added by the reporter, which is not unusual. After reading it this morning, I concluded (assumed, and I may be wrong) that Kramer was actually meaning "Why couldn't he have done that (complied with what his coaches wanted) in June (when Fuller screwed up)?"
“He immediately complied when I asked him to do it. Why couldn’t he have done that (listened) in June (when Fuller was originally charged)?”



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Post by kmax » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:23 pm

The Butcher wrote:I was shocked to see that in 7 years Kramer has had 680 players! How is that possible? Guys are getting kicked off or quitting the team at a ridicules rate… No wonder we lost those scholarships for inadequate graduation rates.
If we were talking about only 4-5 year players then yes, it seems extreme and would point to alot of players kicked off or quitting. But remember, we also bring in JC players (only 2 years usually) and I-A dropdowns (could be anywhere from 1-4 year players). Having players that are playing only a couple years, and then having to replace them again makes the number a bit more understandable. You also have players on our team that decide to drop down to a lower level because they don't expect playing time and those players are shorter term and thus must be replaced.


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Post by SonomaCat » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:28 pm

There are also a lot of walk-ons who leave the team when they do not make significant progress towards playing time or earning a scholarship. That would likely account for the most turnover.



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Post by Cat Grad » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:36 pm

680 over seven years is not excessive, especially in light of the fact that 44 from Cliff's last team quit by the time they played their first game in 2000. Not even a hundred a year. I guess if we're used to seeing kids play in the band at half time of a basketball game, it may seem excessive but 30-40 kids walk on and find out their not quite as fast, as big or strong as they were in high school will inflate these numbers.



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Post by SonomaCat » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:49 pm

The Butcher wrote:I was shocked to see that in 7 years Kramer has had 680 players! How is that possible? Guys are getting kicked off or quitting the team at a ridicules rate… No wonder we lost those scholarships for inadequate graduation rates.
I'm actually having a hard time reconciling those numbers as well. If there are about 90 guys on the roster each season ... that put us at over 100% turnover each year.

Some numbers there aren't quite right ... I suspect.



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