Developing In-State Talent

[MrGoodKat]

The in-state recruiting battle is always going to be a central talking point when it comes to the MSU/UM rivalry. In recent years, the narrative has been that MSU is decidedly winning (and for good reason). So I wanted to break it down a little bit and look at what each team is actually getting out of their in-state recruits since Vigen arrived at Montana State.

Caveats: 1) This thread is not intended to disparage any players on either side of the rivalry. 2) Where I rank players is partially a judgment call and I'm open to disagreement. 3) I recognize that the story isn't totally written with the more recent classes.

Montana State: By my count, the Cats have brought in 43 in-state recruits from 2021-2024.

Stars: These are players who not only started, but became high end impact players. 6

-Paul Brott, DT (2021)
-Kenneth Eiden, DE (2021)
-Taco Dowler, WR (2022)
-Caden Dowler, S (2022)
-Adam Jones, RB (2023)
-Cole Taylor, LB (2023)

Starters: These are players who have secured starting roles. 5

-Neil Daily, LB (2021)
-Burke Mastel, OL (2022)
-Bryce Grebe, LB (2023)
-Rocky Lencioni, TE (2024)
-Braden Zimmer, OT (2024)

Contributors: While not (yet) starters, these players made an impact in a limited role. 12

-Rylan Schlepp, TE (2022)
-Tommy Nilson, OL (2022)
-Ryan Krahe, LB (2022)
-Jake Vigen, DE (2022)
-Talon Marsh, DT (2023)
-Zac Crews, DE (2023)*
-Patrick Duchien, QB (2023)
-Hunter Sharbono, DT (2023)
-Everett Carr, OL (2023)
-J.J. Dolan, DB (2023)
-Colter Petre, S (2023)
-Mason Dethman, S (2024)

Rostered: These players have not impacted the game, but remain on the roster. 8

-Jaden Perkins, DT (2022)
-Tom Carter, WR (2023)
-Luke Smith, TE (2023)
-Jonathan Luhmann, OL (2023)
-Hudson Wiens, DL (2024)
-Dalton Noble, OL (2024)
-Josh Woodberry, LB (2024)
-Kee Christiansen, WR (2024)

Total: 31 of the 43 recruits remain with the team (72%). 11 are/were starters (26%), with 4-6 others looking to be in line for major roles in the near future. Only 12 players are no longer on the roster (28%), meaning the attrition rate of in-state players is 3/year. Finally, only 2 of the 43 are done with the program due to exhausted eligibility.

Montana: By my count, the Griz have brought in 41 in-state recruits over the same time-span. This is notable, as it's only two off of MSU's pace (i.e. they are basically bringing in the same raw number of in-state players).

Stars: These are players who not only started, but became high end impact players. 1

-Junior Bergen, WR (2021)*

Starters: These are players who secured starting roles. 3

-Kellen Detrick, DL (2021)
-Jace Klucewich, S (2021)
-T.J. Rausch, S (2021)

Contributors: While not (yet) starters, these players have made an on-field impact. 5

-Geno Leonard, LB (2021)
-Jake Olson, TE (2021)
-Ian Finch, WR (2022)
-Clay Oven, LB (2023)
-Cameron Gurnsey (2023)

Rostered: These players remain on the roster. 8

-Austin Buehler, OL (2023)
-Gage Sliter, QB (2023)
-Kash Goicoechea, S (2024)
-Isaac Keim, DL (2024)
-Grady Walker, LB (2024)
-Danny Sirmon, TE (2024)
-Talen Reynolds, RB (2024)
-Cody Schweikert, ATH (2024)

Total: Only 17 of the 41 in-state recruits from 2021-24 remain on the Griz roster (41%). 4 of them are/were starters (9.8%). It's possible that some of the rostered recruits earn starting roles, but some of the more likely candidates (e.g. Keim, Goicoechea) have had 3+ portal transfers come in this off-season. 24 of their in-state recruits over this span are no longer on the team (59%). Finally, 6 of the 9 starters/contributors have exhausted their eligibility. Whereas MSU returns 41/43, UM returns 11.

*Both Bergen and Crews started at the opposing school and, for varying circumstances, ended up crossing over.

[MrGoodKat]

Here's my main question coming away from all this:

If you're a good football player in the state of Montana, why would you ever decide to go to UM as long as their current regime is in control?

By the numbers, your odds of seeing the field or securing a starting role for the Griz are tiny.

By contrast, the Cats aren't carrying more MT players simply because they recruit more of them; it's rather because they develop and keep more of them as integral members of the team.

I genuinely feel sorry for talented Montana kids who end up in Missoula right now. That's not trash talk-- I really mean that. I wonder "what could have been" for many of them had they made a different choice.

[Norsky19]

Interesting! One factor might be that MSU is getting significantly more "Blue Chip" players than UM and therefore have a greater chance to be impact players. I think we're in an upward spiral for Montana talent.

[BelligerentBobcat]

Here's my main question coming away from all this:

If you're a good football player in the state of Montana, why would you ever decide to go to UM as long as their current regime is in control?

By the numbers, your odds of seeing the field or securing a starting role for the Griz are tiny.

By contrast, the Cats aren't carrying more MT players simply because they recruit more of them; it's rather because they develop and keep more of them as integral members of the team.

I genuinely feel sorry for talented Montana kids who end up in Missoula right now. That's not trash talk-- I really mean that. I wonder "what could have been" for many of them had they made a different choice.

I would like to see you add in which players have gotten offers from both universities. Think that might be illuminating too.

[MrGoodKat]

Interesting! One factor might be that MSU is getting significantly more "Blue Chip" players than UM and therefore have a greater chance to be impact players. I think we're in an upward spiral for Montana talent.

That will take some more time, but just as an example, look at the 2022 class.

@VimSince03 is the most knowledgeable person I'm aware of on in-state recruiting. Per his ranking, the Griz landed four of the top ten players in the state:

#2- Zac Crews
#3- Kaden Huot
#5- Marcus Evans
#6- Tyson Rostad

Crews ended up at MSU in the end and the others never made an impact.

In 2023, they landed:

#4- Hayden Opitz
#7- Clay Oven
#10- Austin Buehler

Opitz isn't listed on the roster anymore. Oven has been rotational because he's stuck behind transfers. Buehler hasn't earned a starting job yet.

So at a glance, it isn't that they aren't ever landing any of the higher end guys (though that's been more true lately and-- I think-- is a result of the trend that I highlight in this thread), but that they totally fail to develop the guys they do get into impactful players. Their development just stinks.

[MrGoodKat]

Here's my main question coming away from all this:

If you're a good football player in the state of Montana, why would you ever decide to go to UM as long as their current regime is in control?

By the numbers, your odds of seeing the field or securing a starting role for the Griz are tiny.

By contrast, the Cats aren't carrying more MT players simply because they recruit more of them; it's rather because they develop and keep more of them as integral members of the team.

I genuinely feel sorry for talented Montana kids who end up in Missoula right now. That's not trash talk-- I really mean that. I wonder "what could have been" for many of them had they made a different choice.

I would like to see you add in which players have gotten offers from both universities. Think that might be illuminating too.

In good time sassy pants.

[ECBobcat]

Interesting.

Your recent comment about Austin Buehler (in a different thread) was certainly thought provoking. That dude might have developed into an NFL prospect had he come to MSU. Over there, he’s stuck in a perpetual backup role behind elderly transfer after elderly transfer.

[VimSince03]

Interesting! One factor might be that MSU is getting significantly more "Blue Chip" players than UM and therefore have a greater chance to be impact players. I think we're in an upward spiral for Montana talent.

For players I put into my Tier 1 or Tier 2 (all blue chip talent), MSU has been very competitive in those tiers since the Class of 2016 which was Choate's first recruiting class with BJ Robertson on board. This was of course a year after Stitt brought in the "Dream Team" that consisted of Jesse Sims, Colin Bingham, Holden Ryan, Dalton Daum, and Josh Sandry (Andrew Harris was also a great get for him...RIP to both him and Jesse). Meanwhile, MSU brought in Mitch Brott, Brayden Konkol, Logan Jones, Josh Hill, and Marcus Ferriter among several other players. The 2015 group was the recruiting cycle that made me start tracking it a little deeper instead of just reading media simply stating "Griz bring in the best in-state recruits". Stitt's group was no-doubt a very talented collection of MT high school players but the first four MSU players I listed turned into All-Conference players with two being All-Americans. Development matters and Stitt to Hauck kind of threw a wrench into everything for them.

Anyway, MSU then followed with Choate's first class:

1.) Andrew Grinde (CMR) - RB - Yale
2.) Chase Benson (Helena High) - DE/DT - Montana State (Full)
3.) Balue Chapman (Bozeman) - DE/OLB - Montana State (Full)
4.) Jed Nagler (Whitefish) - WR - Montana (Full)
5.) Karl Tucker II (CMR) - WR - Montana State (Full)
6.) Payton O'Reilly (Bozeman) - MLB - Miami (Ohio)
7.) Sean Opland (Troy) - RB - Montana State (Full)
8.) Trace Bradshaw (Bozeman) - DT - Montana (Partial)
9.) Derek Marks (Belgrade) - DE - Montana State (Full)
10.) Cole Rosling (Helena Capital) - DE - Montana (Partial)
11.) Jake Sessions (Colstrip) - OG - Montana State (Full)
12.) Michael Jobman (Huntley Project) - DE/OLB - Montana State (Full)
13.) Kyle Finch (Dillon) - DE/OLB - Montana State (Partial)
14.) Jacob Hadley (Billings Central) - WR - Montana State (Partial)
15.) Devin Maua (Billings Senior) - DE/DT - Montana (PWO)
16.) Jered Padmos (Jefferson) - K/P - Montana State (Partial)
17.) Dane Warp (Havre) - QB - Carroll College (Basketball)
18.) Jace Lewis (Townsend) - OLB - Montana (PWO)
19.) Trase LeTexier (Jefferson) - MLB - Montana (PWO)
20.) Gus Herzog (Helena High) - DE - Montana Tech

The 2016 guys laid the foundation for Montana players wanting to come to MSU to compete in a different way than before. Choate made it feel bigger to play at MSU. Griz remained competitive in-state in 2017-2019 but in 2020 we headlined with Tommy which was a tough defeat for Hauck and from there we were off to the races. Choate had such an insane 2021 class that did include Bergen before he left and that was the only real BIG win Hauck has ever had over Vigen in recruiting. Hauck also brought in a huge MT recruiting class in Vigen's first year to make things look like they were investing heavily in-state. The 2021 recruiting class included per my ranking:

1.) Dylan Rollins (BYU to MSU)
2.) Kenneth Eiden (MSU)
3.) Jace Klucewich (UM)
4.) Kellen Detrick (UM)
5.) Neil Daily (MSU)
6.) Junior Bergen (MSU to UM)
7.) Paul Brott (MSU)
8.) Camden Sirmon (UW-Walk On)
9.) Elijah Reynolds (MSU)
10.) Eli Aby (MSU to Carroll)
11.) Jace Fitzgerald (MSU to UM-Western)
12.) Jake Olson (UM)
13.) Dylan Smith (UM)
14.) Luke Fedyk (MSU)
15.) Kade Cutler (MSU to UM)
16.) T.J. Rausch (UM)
17.) Mayson Phipps (MT Tech)
18.) Corby Mann (UM)
19.) Geno Leonard (UM)
20.) Soren Syvrud (UM)

Others:
22.) Colter Janacaro (UM)
26.) Padraig Lang (UM)
27.) Brady Lang (UM)
37.) Sloan McPherson (UM)
38.) Zach Evans (UM)
46.) Camden Casper (UM)

In total, 15 kids ended up signing with UM out of Montana with Cutler eventually joining the ranks last year. However, out of those 15, only 5 made it to their final years with the team and only those five made meaningful contributions with Rausch and Bergen earning any type of conference accolades. The rest of the depth barely sniffed special teams at best. MSU brought in 8 with Cutler eventually moving on but Rollins adding to the mix later. Out of those 8, 4 have made meaningful contributions (Eiden, Daily, Brott, and Aby) meaning played true varsity minutes. Rollins will likely earn a starting job in 2026. Aby and Fitzgerald transferred to Carroll and Western, respectively, and were all-conference in the Frontier. Fedyk and Reynolds retired before their senior seasons. Reynolds was on pace to cracking the two deep but MSU's TE factory has been insane since Vigen took over.

My point in all of this? 2021 was arguably the last year Hauck really tried in Montana. Since then? The results speak for themselves.

[BelligerentBobcat]

What's wild to me is that it seemed like UM would always have great LB play from Montana kids. I was always so jealous of it. Now things have completely reversed. Imagine this team without Taylor, Grebe, or Daily. It makes a huge difference.

[VimSince03]

What's wild to me is that it seemed like UM would always have great LB play from Montana kids. I was always so jealous of it. Now things have completely reversed. Imagine this team without Taylor, Grebe, or Daily. It makes a huge difference.

Well UM had this young core of Clay Oven, Hayden Opitz, and Cy Stevenson. Per the 2026 roster, only Oven remains (and who I personally think should have played more last year). But that's why I found it funny listening to Griz fans complain online yesterday about the Cats offering 6'2", 210 lb. Eli Kasberg from Missoula Big Sky. Currently a high school Qb but he screams LB at the next level...but one Griz fan was like "we don't need any more QBs". They just don't get it lately.

[iaafan]

What's wild to me is that it seemed like UM would always have great LB play from Montana kids. I was always so jealous of it. Now things have completely reversed. Imagine this team without Taylor, Grebe, or Daily. It makes a huge difference.

Well UM had this young core of Clay Oven, Hayden Opitz, and Cy Stevenson. Per the 2026 roster, only Oven remains (and who I personally think should have played more last year). But that's why I found it funny listening to Griz fans complain online yesterday about the Cats offering 6'2", 210 lb. Eli Kasberg from Missoula Big Sky. Currently a high school Qb but he screams LB at the next level...but one Griz fan was like "we don't need any more QBs". They just don't get it lately.

They DO need more quarterbacks. Ah Yat was limping around late in the season and isn’t looking like a durable player. They try to keep him from running which is a strength of us. The fact that they do this says a lot about their depth and how they feel about his durability.

[BlueAndGoldNation]

What's wild to me is that it seemed like UM would always have great LB play from Montana kids. I was always so jealous of it. Now things have completely reversed. Imagine this team without Taylor, Grebe, or Daily. It makes a huge difference.

Brit Linder is almost a sure bet to come in and continue that tradition as well. Young, hungry MT born linebackers seem to be a trend that has been going on since Andersen moved to LB... The Orilley brothers, Daily, Grebe, Taylor, and now Linder... All of them are All-Conference level guys, with Taylor being a dark horse next year for All American honors. We've been blessed at that position!

[iaafan]

What's wild to me is that it seemed like UM would always have great LB play from Montana kids. I was always so jealous of it. Now things have completely reversed. Imagine this team without Taylor, Grebe, or Daily. It makes a huge difference.

Brit Linder is almost a sure bet to come in and continue that tradition as well. Young, hungry MT born linebackers seem to be a trend that has been going on since Andersen moved to LB... The Orilley brothers, Daily, Grebe, Taylor, and now Linder... All of them are All-Conference level guys, with Taylor being a dark horse next year for All American honors. We've been blessed at that position!

This year was a great year at LB. I would say overall better than 2021. No one better than Andersen obviously but the rotation was incredible.

[saintcat40]

@VimSince03 Does Cole Taylor have NFL talent? He seems like the most solid linebacker we have had in terms of speed and strength and reads and instinct since Troy. I know his measureables are not comparable to Troy, but could he be like Alex Singleton? You evaluate talent much better than I do, but to me he just consistently pops.

[VimSince03]

@VimSince03 Does Cole Taylor have NFL talent? He seems like the most solid linebacker we have had in terms of speed and strength and reads and instinct since Troy. I know his measureables are not comparable to Troy, but could he be like Alex Singleton? You evaluate talent much better than I do, but to me he just consistently pops.

Yes

[MrGoodKat]

What's wild to me is that it seemed like UM would always have great LB play from Montana kids. I was always so jealous of it. Now things have completely reversed. Imagine this team without Taylor, Grebe, or Daily. It makes a huge difference.

Well UM had this young core of Clay Oven, Hayden Opitz, and Cy Stevenson. Per the 2026 roster, only Oven remains (and who I personally think should have played more last year). But that's why I found it funny listening to Griz fans complain online yesterday about the Cats offering 6'2", 210 lb. Eli Kasberg from Missoula Big Sky. Currently a high school Qb but he screams LB at the next level...but one Griz fan was like "we don't need any more QBs". They just don't get it lately.

And Oven was listed behind Tuliaupupu, which suggests that they want him in that pass rushing linebacker role. But they have since brought in that DE/OLB from Utah Tech via the portal who would seem to be yet more competition.

[Colter_Nuanez]

@VimSince03 Does Cole Taylor have NFL talent? He seems like the most solid linebacker we have had in terms of speed and strength and reads and instinct since Troy. I know his measureables are not comparable to Troy, but could he be like Alex Singleton? You evaluate talent much better than I do, but to me he just consistently pops.

Yes

Don’t want to put too much pressure on the kid…but he’s not quite as instinctual as Singleton, yet he’s just as explosive, almost as sure of a tackler….but WAY bigger, stronger and more physical.

When Jody Owens got hurt against Sam Houston in the 2012 playoffs and Singleton came in and made 2 straight TFLs…the only comparable experience I’ve had as an analyst is Cole Taylor coming in against Oregon. WAP! He lays the smack down. Unreal talent

[BelligerentBobcat]

@VimSince03 Does Cole Taylor have NFL talent? He seems like the most solid linebacker we have had in terms of speed and strength and reads and instinct since Troy. I know his measureables are not comparable to Troy, but could he be like Alex Singleton? You evaluate talent much better than I do, but to me he just consistently pops.

Yes

Don’t want to put too much pressure on the kid…but he’s not quite as instinctual as Singleton, yet he’s just as explosive, almost as sure of a tackler….but WAY bigger, stronger and more physical.

When Jody Owens got hurt against Sam Houston in the 2012 playoffs and Singleton came in and made 2 straight TFLs…the only comparable experience I’ve had as an analyst is Cole Taylor coming in against Oregon. WAP! He lays the smack down. Unreal talent

He also appears to be the biggest ****** talker we’ve had in quite some time. He rides the line of physicality exactly like a LB should.

[kwcat]

@VimSince03 Does Cole Taylor have NFL talent? He seems like the most solid linebacker we have had in terms of speed and strength and reads and instinct since Troy. I know his measureables are not comparable to Troy, but could he be like Alex Singleton? You evaluate talent much better than I do, but to me he just consistently pops.

Yes

Don’t want to put too much pressure on the kid…but he’s not quite as instinctual as Singleton, yet he’s just as explosive, almost as sure of a tackler….but WAY bigger, stronger and more physical.

When Jody Owens got hurt against Sam Houston in the 2012 playoffs and Singleton came in and made 2 straight TFLs…the only comparable experience I’ve had as an analyst is Cole Taylor coming in against Oregon. WAP! He lays the smack down. Unreal talent

I remember listening to an interview from Alex years ago at Montana State. He talked about doing tackling drills at a very young age with his dad. He was the best pure form tackler I’ve ever seen come out of the Big Sky hands-down

[nanacat]

Here's my main question coming away from all this:

If you're a good football player in the state of Montana, why would you ever decide to go to UM as long as their current regime is in control?

By the numbers, your odds of seeing the field or securing a starting role for the Griz are tiny.

By contrast, the Cats aren't carrying more MT players simply because they recruit more of them; it's rather because they develop and keep more of them as integral members of the team.

I genuinely feel sorry for talented Montana kids who end up in Missoula right now. That's not trash talk-- I really mean that. I wonder "what could have been" for many of them had they made a different choice.

I have been thinking this, and saying it occasionally, for quite some time. I'm sure if their dad or uncle played there, that creates a draw, but with Bobby's insistence on using the portal rather than developing players, what, honestly, it's the point of going there? And I'm sure this is why there are the number of Missoula guys playing for the Cats, they see there is opportunity. What's Bobby's pitch? "If you play here, and stick it out, you might make the 2 deep your senior year, unless we find a transfer player better than you."