Thought exercise: the Hauck 2.0 grizzlies are the Rob Ash Bobcats.

[WalkOn79]

Lots of parallels.

Offense-first team (this year).

Lots of empty wins against bad teams.

Struggles in the rivalry.

And yet, Hauck 2.0 has had way more postseason success and his teams field stronger defenses.

Can't argue with the post season success, especially that 2023 run (something of a fluke IMO) and this year. 18, 19, 21, 22 and 24 though the parallels are more direct. The big comparisons to me are an overall lack of depth behind arguably the biggest star players/Frontline dudes in the league, and a refusal to acknowledge defensive liability in scheme and personnel.

What pops to me as the biggest parallel is team builds where the LOS is the weak point.

Don’t agree that we had deficiencies up front during the Ash years. We had deficiencies in scheme and coaching on the defensive side.

[MrGoodKat]

Lots of parallels.

Offense-first team (this year).

Lots of empty wins against bad teams.

Struggles in the rivalry.

And yet, Hauck 2.0 has had way more postseason success and his teams field stronger defenses.

Can't argue with the post season success, especially that 2023 run (something of a fluke IMO) and this year. 18, 19, 21, 22 and 24 though the parallels are more direct. The big comparisons to me are an overall lack of depth behind arguably the biggest star players/Frontline dudes in the league, and a refusal to acknowledge defensive liability in scheme and personnel.

What pops to me as the biggest parallel is team builds where the LOS is the weak point.

Don’t agree that we had deficiencies up front during the Ash years. We had deficiencies in scheme and coaching on the defensive side.

The DL was generally ahead of the OL, which tended to be undersized. But neither was close to being able to compete with the elites.

[WalkOn79]

Lots of parallels.

Offense-first team (this year).

Lots of empty wins against bad teams.

Struggles in the rivalry.

And yet, Hauck 2.0 has had way more postseason success and his teams field stronger defenses.

Can't argue with the post season success, especially that 2023 run (something of a fluke IMO) and this year. 18, 19, 21, 22 and 24 though the parallels are more direct. The big comparisons to me are an overall lack of depth behind arguably the biggest star players/Frontline dudes in the league, and a refusal to acknowledge defensive liability in scheme and personnel.

What pops to me as the biggest parallel is team builds where the LOS is the weak point.

Don’t agree that we had deficiencies up front during the Ash years. We had deficiencies in scheme and coaching on the defensive side.

The DL was generally ahead of the OL, which tended to be undersized. But neither was close to being able to compete with the elites.

Zack Minter, Mike Person, Weidenaar, Schreibis, I’ll go on if you want but we had multiple offensive and defensive all=americans up from on both sides.

[MrGoodKat]

Lots of parallels.

Offense-first team (this year).

Lots of empty wins against bad teams.

Struggles in the rivalry.

And yet, Hauck 2.0 has had way more postseason success and his teams field stronger defenses.

Can't argue with the post season success, especially that 2023 run (something of a fluke IMO) and this year. 18, 19, 21, 22 and 24 though the parallels are more direct. The big comparisons to me are an overall lack of depth behind arguably the biggest star players/Frontline dudes in the league, and a refusal to acknowledge defensive liability in scheme and personnel.

What pops to me as the biggest parallel is team builds where the LOS is the weak point.

Don’t agree that we had deficiencies up front during the Ash years. We had deficiencies in scheme and coaching on the defensive side.

The DL was generally ahead of the OL, which tended to be undersized. But neither was close to being able to compete with the elites.

Zack Minter, Mike Person, Weidenaar, Schreibis, I’ll go on if you want but we had multiple offensive and defensive all=americans up from on both sides.

I’m not denying the existence of exceptional individual talents, but the units as a whole could not compete with the big boys. I don’t think that’s a bold statement.

[onceacat]

Lots of parallels.

Offense-first team (this year).

Lots of empty wins against bad teams.

Struggles in the rivalry.

And yet, Hauck 2.0 has had way more postseason success and his teams field stronger defenses.

Can't argue with the post season success, especially that 2023 run (something of a fluke IMO) and this year. 18, 19, 21, 22 and 24 though the parallels are more direct. The big comparisons to me are an overall lack of depth behind arguably the biggest star players/Frontline dudes in the league, and a refusal to acknowledge defensive liability in scheme and personnel.

What pops to me as the biggest parallel is team builds where the LOS is the weak point.

Don’t agree that we had deficiencies up front during the Ash years. We had deficiencies in scheme and coaching on the defensive side.

The DL was generally ahead of the OL, which tended to be undersized. But neither was close to being able to compete with the elites.

Zack Minter, Mike Person, Weidenaar, Schreibis, I’ll go on if you want but we had multiple offensive and defensive all=americans up from on both sides.

I’m not denying the existence of exceptional individual talents, but the units as a whole could not compete with the big boys. I don’t think that’s a bold statement.

Depth. Conditioning. And to a lesser extent (IMO) scheme.

Loads of talent…just no backups.

[bobcat92]

My view is BH is content to continue on as is until he retires. Boosters love him for his hate of all things MSU. Past record w-l. As long as they make the playoffs and beat MSU every five years he is good. Why bring in young coaches when you can coast into retirement with older coaches that know the ropes? Less work and stress. I am all for it. I hope he stays for another fifteen years.

Skyline sports had a great video about this topic. Former Griz player Andrew Schmidt has a very critical view of Bobby 2.0.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3DlRy2L59k&t=4099s

Critical but he didn’t say that he should be fired.

[BelligerentBobcat]

Lots of parallels.

Offense-first team (this year).

Lots of empty wins against bad teams.

Struggles in the rivalry.

And yet, Hauck 2.0 has had way more postseason success and his teams field stronger defenses.

Can't argue with the post season success, especially that 2023 run (something of a fluke IMO) and this year. 18, 19, 21, 22 and 24 though the parallels are more direct. The big comparisons to me are an overall lack of depth behind arguably the biggest star players/Frontline dudes in the league, and a refusal to acknowledge defensive liability in scheme and personnel.

What pops to me as the biggest parallel is team builds where the LOS is the weak point.

Don’t agree that we had deficiencies up front during the Ash years. We had deficiencies in scheme and coaching on the defensive side.

The DL was generally ahead of the OL, which tended to be undersized. But neither was close to being able to compete with the elites.

Zack Minter, Mike Person, Weidenaar, Schreibis, I’ll go on if you want but we had multiple offensive and defensive all=americans up from on both sides.

By and large the overall talent and depth was not anywhere close to what we have now. It was not good enough to compete with the best.

[onceacat]

Lots of parallels.

Offense-first team (this year).

Lots of empty wins against bad teams.

Struggles in the rivalry.

And yet, Hauck 2.0 has had way more postseason success and his teams field stronger defenses.

Can't argue with the post season success, especially that 2023 run (something of a fluke IMO) and this year. 18, 19, 21, 22 and 24 though the parallels are more direct. The big comparisons to me are an overall lack of depth behind arguably the biggest star players/Frontline dudes in the league, and a refusal to acknowledge defensive liability in scheme and personnel.

What pops to me as the biggest parallel is team builds where the LOS is the weak point.

Don’t agree that we had deficiencies up front during the Ash years. We had deficiencies in scheme and coaching on the defensive side.

The DL was generally ahead of the OL, which tended to be undersized. But neither was close to being able to compete with the elites.

Zack Minter, Mike Person, Weidenaar, Schreibis, I’ll go on if you want but we had multiple offensive and defensive all=americans up from on both sides.

By and large the overall talent and depth was not anywhere close to what we have now. It was not good enough to compete with the best.

It was more feast and famine. Lots of top end talent. But not across the board.

This Cat team had fewer all Americans than two of the teams it beat in the playoffs. Had fewer all conference guys than the Pandas team that theCats took to the woodshed twice. Somehow KAY was a first team all conference QB & 2nd team all American, but Lamson ran circles around him...both on the stat sheet AND in the head to head. (And don't get me wrong, KAY is very talented A& a very good QB....just nowhere close to the best QB in the conference)

Same with the Cats of old. Lots of standout 'eye candy' talent...but there were always weak spots. And when injuries hit, the backups really struggled to compete at a high level. (Unlike Petre stepping in for Dowler, for example)

And the gimmicky offense really tested the conditioning of the guys on both sides of the ball.

Now? Elite strength and conditioning and nutrition. Far less top end 'eye candy' talent, but All-Conference performers all the way through the 2 deep at every single position. And an understanding of how to use that deep roster to crush the souls of Pandas in the 4th quarter.

[BelligerentBobcat]

Lots of parallels.

Offense-first team (this year).

Lots of empty wins against bad teams.

Struggles in the rivalry.

And yet, Hauck 2.0 has had way more postseason success and his teams field stronger defenses.

Can't argue with the post season success, especially that 2023 run (something of a fluke IMO) and this year. 18, 19, 21, 22 and 24 though the parallels are more direct. The big comparisons to me are an overall lack of depth behind arguably the biggest star players/Frontline dudes in the league, and a refusal to acknowledge defensive liability in scheme and personnel.

What pops to me as the biggest parallel is team builds where the LOS is the weak point.

Don’t agree that we had deficiencies up front during the Ash years. We had deficiencies in scheme and coaching on the defensive side.

The DL was generally ahead of the OL, which tended to be undersized. But neither was close to being able to compete with the elites.

Zack Minter, Mike Person, Weidenaar, Schreibis, I’ll go on if you want but we had multiple offensive and defensive all=americans up from on both sides.

By and large the overall talent and depth was not anywhere close to what we have now. It was not good enough to compete with the best.

It was more feast and famine. Lots of top end talent. But not across the board.

This Cat team had fewer all Americans than two of the teams it beat in the playoffs. Had fewer all conference guys than the Pandas team that theCats took to the woodshed twice. Somehow KAY was a first team all conference QB & 2nd team all American, but Lamson ran circles around him...both on the stat sheet AND in the head to head. (And don't get me wrong, KAY is very talented A& a very good QB....just nowhere close to the best QB in the conference)

Same with the Cats of old. Lots of standout 'eye candy' talent...but there were always weak spots. And when injuries hit, the backups really struggled to compete at a high level. (Unlike Petre stepping in for Dowler, for example)

And the gimmicky offense really tested the conditioning of the guys on both sides of the ball.

Now? Elite strength and conditioning and nutrition. Far less top end 'eye candy' talent, but All-Conference performers all the way through the 2 deep at every single position. And an understanding of how to use that deep roster to crush the souls of Pandas in the 4th quarter.

I think the top end is actually better, but because the gap isn’t as wide with the rest of the starters they don’t stand out *as much*.

[catscat]

Lots of parallels.

Offense-first team (this year).

Lots of empty wins against bad teams.

Struggles in the rivalry.

And yet, Hauck 2.0 has had way more postseason success and his teams field stronger defenses.

Can't argue with the post season success, especially that 2023 run (something of a fluke IMO) and this year. 18, 19, 21, 22 and 24 though the parallels are more direct. The big comparisons to me are an overall lack of depth behind arguably the biggest star players/Frontline dudes in the league, and a refusal to acknowledge defensive liability in scheme and personnel.

What pops to me as the biggest parallel is team builds where the LOS is the weak point.

Don’t agree that we had deficiencies up front during the Ash years. We had deficiencies in scheme and coaching on the defensive side.

The DL was generally ahead of the OL, which tended to be undersized. But neither was close to being able to compete with the elites.

Zack Minter, Mike Person, Weidenaar, Schreibis, I’ll go on if you want but we had multiple offensive and defensive all=americans up from on both sides.

By and large the overall talent and depth was not anywhere close to what we have now. It was not good enough to compete with the best.

It was more feast and famine. Lots of top end talent. But not across the board.

This Cat team had fewer all Americans than two of the teams it beat in the playoffs. Had fewer all conference guys than the Pandas team that theCats took to the woodshed twice. Somehow KAY was a first team all conference QB & 2nd team all American, but Lamson ran circles around him...both on the stat sheet AND in the head to head. (And don't get me wrong, KAY is very talented A& a very good QB....just nowhere close to the best QB in the conference)

Same with the Cats of old. Lots of standout 'eye candy' talent...but there were always weak spots. And when injuries hit, the backups really struggled to compete at a high level. (Unlike Petre stepping in for Dowler, for example)

And the gimmicky offense really tested the conditioning of the guys on both sides of the ball.

Now? Elite strength and conditioning and nutrition. Far less top end 'eye candy' talent, but All-Conference performers all the way through the 2 deep at every single position. And an understanding of how to use that deep roster to crush the souls of Pandas in the 4th quarter.

I think the top end is actually better, but because the gap isn’t as wide with the rest of the starters they don’t stand out *as much*.

Problem with Ash was backups never got playing time. He should have inserted a couple of 2s with the 1s through out the games to give them some experience so they would be ready after injuries or to spell tired 1s. I offer this example. Jody Owens/Alex Singleton. If Owens could go, he did even though Singleton demonstrated there was little drop off, if any, between the 2 when Owens was injured. Owens comes back from injury Singleton no longer sees the field.

[MrGoodKat]

Lots of parallels.

Offense-first team (this year).

Lots of empty wins against bad teams.

Struggles in the rivalry.

And yet, Hauck 2.0 has had way more postseason success and his teams field stronger defenses.

Can't argue with the post season success, especially that 2023 run (something of a fluke IMO) and this year. 18, 19, 21, 22 and 24 though the parallels are more direct. The big comparisons to me are an overall lack of depth behind arguably the biggest star players/Frontline dudes in the league, and a refusal to acknowledge defensive liability in scheme and personnel.

What pops to me as the biggest parallel is team builds where the LOS is the weak point.

Don’t agree that we had deficiencies up front during the Ash years. We had deficiencies in scheme and coaching on the defensive side.

The DL was generally ahead of the OL, which tended to be undersized. But neither was close to being able to compete with the elites.

Zack Minter, Mike Person, Weidenaar, Schreibis, I’ll go on if you want but we had multiple offensive and defensive all=americans up from on both sides.

By and large the overall talent and depth was not anywhere close to what we have now. It was not good enough to compete with the best.

It was more feast and famine. Lots of top end talent. But not across the board.

This Cat team had fewer all Americans than two of the teams it beat in the playoffs. Had fewer all conference guys than the Pandas team that theCats took to the woodshed twice. Somehow KAY was a first team all conference QB & 2nd team all American, but Lamson ran circles around him...both on the stat sheet AND in the head to head. (And don't get me wrong, KAY is very talented A& a very good QB....just nowhere close to the best QB in the conference)

Same with the Cats of old. Lots of standout 'eye candy' talent...but there were always weak spots. And when injuries hit, the backups really struggled to compete at a high level. (Unlike Petre stepping in for Dowler, for example)

And the gimmicky offense really tested the conditioning of the guys on both sides of the ball.

Now? Elite strength and conditioning and nutrition. Far less top end 'eye candy' talent, but All-Conference performers all the way through the 2 deep at every single position. And an understanding of how to use that deep roster to crush the souls of Pandas in the 4th quarter.

My opinion is that the Cats had fewer All-Americans and All-Conference selections because they’re super young and there’s a bias in favor of upperclassmen. I don’t think it actually reflects a lack of high level talent.

[Utcatsfan]

Skyline sports had a great video about this topic. Former Griz player Andrew Schmidt has a very critical view of Bobby 2.0.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3DlRy2L59k&t=4099s

Critical but he didn’t say that he should be fired.

Bobby has 1 year left on his current contract so no need to blow everything up and waste $$. Looking at their schedule next year there is a very good chance they could lose all of their away games:

-Oregon State
-NAU
-Davis
-EWU
-Us in Bozeman

An FBS team, Davis and places they have historically struggled at on the road, I think if they finish 8-4 or 7-5 Bobby is done regardless of what certain Boosters want, especially if we dominate them again.

[catatac]

Skyline sports had a great video about this topic. Former Griz player Andrew Schmidt has a very critical view of Bobby 2.0.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3DlRy2L59k&t=4099s

Critical but he didn’t say that he should be fired.

Bobby has 1 year left on his current contract so no need to blow everything up and waste $$. Looking at their schedule next year there is a very good chance they could lose all of their away games:

-Oregon State
-NAU
-Davis
-EWU
-Us in Bozeman

An FBS team, Davis and places they have historically struggled at on the road, I think if they finish 8-4 or 7-5 Bobby is done regardless of what certain Boosters want, especially if we dominate them again.

I wouldn't say there's a VERY good chance they lose all those, but I'm saying there's a VERY good chance they lose three. Who knows what NAU and Davis end up looking like come Fall... but I'd be shocked if EWU isn't a dumpster fire.

[Montanabob]

Skyline sports had a great video about this topic. Former Griz player Andrew Schmidt has a very critical view of Bobby 2.0.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3DlRy2L59k&t=4099s

Critical but he didn’t say that he should be fired.

Bobby has 1 year left on his current contract so no need to blow everything up and waste $$. Looking at their schedule next year there is a very good chance they could lose all of their away games:

-Oregon State
-NAU
-Davis
-EWU
-Us in Bozeman

An FBS team, Davis and places they have historically struggled at on the road, I think if they finish 8-4 or 7-5 Bobby is done regardless of what certain Boosters want, especially if we dominate them again.

I wouldn't say there's a VERY good chance they lose all those, but I'm saying there's a VERY good chance they lose three. Who knows what NAU and Davis end up looking like come Fall... but I'd be shocked if EWU isn't a dumpster fire.

Can we at least wait until we see what everyone does in the portal (in/out) and spring ball? lots of moving parts to this equation. but 6 and 6 next year for the gris is a doable expectation. Gillman $1m nil? Ah Sht to FBS (yeah that will happen)

[WalkOn79]

Lots of parallels.

Offense-first team (this year).

Lots of empty wins against bad teams.

Struggles in the rivalry.

And yet, Hauck 2.0 has had way more postseason success and his teams field stronger defenses.

Can't argue with the post season success, especially that 2023 run (something of a fluke IMO) and this year. 18, 19, 21, 22 and 24 though the parallels are more direct. The big comparisons to me are an overall lack of depth behind arguably the biggest star players/Frontline dudes in the league, and a refusal to acknowledge defensive liability in scheme and personnel.

What pops to me as the biggest parallel is team builds where the LOS is the weak point.

Don’t agree that we had deficiencies up front during the Ash years. We had deficiencies in scheme and coaching on the defensive side.

The DL was generally ahead of the OL, which tended to be undersized. But neither was close to being able to compete with the elites.

Zack Minter, Mike Person, Weidenaar, Schreibis, I’ll go on if you want but we had multiple offensive and defensive all=americans up from on both sides.

I’m not denying the existence of exceptional individual talents, but the units as a whole could not compete with the big boys. I don’t think that’s a bold statement.

Depth. Conditioning. And to a lesser extent (IMO) scheme.

Loads of talent…just no backups.

I’ll agree with that, but our lines were as talented as anyone in the league during those years, IMO

[WalkOn79]

Lots of parallels.

Offense-first team (this year).

Lots of empty wins against bad teams.

Struggles in the rivalry.

And yet, Hauck 2.0 has had way more postseason success and his teams field stronger defenses.

Can't argue with the post season success, especially that 2023 run (something of a fluke IMO) and this year. 18, 19, 21, 22 and 24 though the parallels are more direct. The big comparisons to me are an overall lack of depth behind arguably the biggest star players/Frontline dudes in the league, and a refusal to acknowledge defensive liability in scheme and personnel.

What pops to me as the biggest parallel is team builds where the LOS is the weak point.

Don’t agree that we had deficiencies up front during the Ash years. We had deficiencies in scheme and coaching on the defensive side.

The DL was generally ahead of the OL, which tended to be undersized. But neither was close to being able to compete with the elites.

Zack Minter, Mike Person, Weidenaar, Schreibis, I’ll go on if you want but we had multiple offensive and defensive all=americans up from on both sides.

I’m not denying the existence of exceptional individual talents, but the units as a whole could not compete with the big boys. I don’t think that’s a bold statement.

Depth. Conditioning. And to a lesser extent (IMO) scheme.

Loads of talent…just no backups.

I’ll agree with that, but our lines were as talented as anyone in the league during those years, IMO

And McEndoo was the best OL coach in the west.

[JoeCatsJoe]

I wonder if Hauck figured something out in the portal this past year. Seemed like the relied more on proven FCS-Juco-NAIA-DII transfers instead of FBS dropdowns. Guys that can play, and can be pieced together into a talented team. Feels like that’s a much more sustainable model to me. I suppose time will tell if that’s a pattern or not. But I don’t think it’s fair to assume they’ll be mediocre to bad like 2024, or pretty darn good like this year. Could be anywhere in between.

[onceacat]

Skyline sports had a great video about this topic. Former Griz player Andrew Schmidt has a very critical view of Bobby 2.0.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3DlRy2L59k&t=4099s

Critical but he didn’t say that he should be fired.

Bobby has 1 year left on his current contract so no need to blow everything up and waste $$. Looking at their schedule next year there is a very good chance they could lose all of their away games:

-Oregon State
-NAU
-Davis
-EWU
-Us in Bozeman

An FBS team, Davis and places they have historically struggled at on the road, I think if they finish 8-4 or 7-5 Bobby is done regardless of what certain Boosters want, especially if we dominate them again.

I wouldn't say there's a VERY good chance they lose all those, but I'm saying there's a VERY good chance they lose three. Who knows what NAU and Davis end up looking like come Fall... but I'd be shocked if EWU isn't a dumpster fire.

Can we at least wait until we see what everyone does in the portal (in/out) and spring ball? lots of moving parts to this equation. but 6 and 6 next year for the gris is a doable expectation. Gillman $1m nil? Ah Sht to FBS (yeah that will happen)

Gilman isn't getting a $1m NIL offer. $500k MAYBE. But NFL prospects aren't getting $1m NIL deals.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... -transfers

[imacat]

Hauck, at least in his first stint, inherited a program hitting on all eight cylinders. As much as it pains me to say this, the gris had an exemplary football program. Easily the best in the Big Sky Conference.
Ash inherited a troubled program (again I hate to admit it); with some on the field success but with serious legal and academic issues.
If you compare what each of them did from that starting position, I don’t think they are remotely similar.

[GoldstoneCat]

Hauck, at least in his first stint, inherited a program hitting on all eight cylinders. As much as it pains me to say this, the gris had an exemplary football program. Easily the best in the Big Sky Conference.
Ash inherited a troubled program (again I hate to admit it); with some on the field success but with serious legal and academic issues.
If you compare what each of them did from that starting position, I don’t think they are remotely similar.

Hauck 2.0 is the comparison. They didn't have the graduation issues we did, but were coming off firing their coach. It's not a perfect comparison, they've been a little better than we were in peak ash years, but lots of parallels. I remember the feeling that things were going well, certainly well enough to fear the consequences of making a change. The wheels eventually came off in 15, and I don't know in a weak BSC if that happens over west or not, exactly, but you could see 8-4, 7-5 coming for them which probably qualifies today with where the league and subdivision is compared to 2012.