Detoxifying the rivalry

[GoCats18]

I don’t think wins or losses have anything to do with it. This rivalry is more toxic now than it was during the streak, and lived in Missoula for 6 years during the streak. I have been guilty of falling into the toxicity, but there comes a day when you realize that nothing you do, say, or how you act matters. Just enjoy the game. Win or lose, enjoy it.

[catatac]

I don’t think wins or losses have anything to do with it. This rivalry is more toxic now than it was during the streak, and lived in Missoula for 6 years during the streak. I have been guilty of falling into the toxicity, but there comes a day when you realize that nothing you do, say, or how you act matters. Just enjoy the game. Win or lose, enjoy it.

I really don't know where this is coming from. I posted in another thread, and several other posters said things were way, ways worse back in the day. I've been going to this thing for like 35 years and each year seems about the same! Maybe it seems worse because now there's 27,000 people in WAGriz on game day and 22,000 in Bobcat Stadium. Oh, and social media.

[OldGriz]

The norms shift over time. We live in a time when it’s OK for an entire student section to chant “F### Joe Biden” or an entire stadium to chant “ESG.” What hasn’t changed over time is the love of booze. I’m not criticizing any of the above (“F### Joe Biden” or “ESG” or booze). But mix a lot of free speech with a lot of alcohol, and it’s no wonder that the line between funny and toxic seems to blur more and more.

[BOBCATBORN]

The norms shift over time. We live in a time when it’s OK for an entire student section to chant “F### Joe Biden” or an entire stadium to chant “ESG.” What hasn’t changed over time is the love of booze. I’m not criticizing any of the above (“F### Joe Biden” or “ESG” or booze). But mix a lot of free speech with a lot of alcohol, and it’s no wonder that the line between funny and toxic seems to blur more and more.

So you're saying alcohol causes people to do dumb things? Nah...that couldn't be the case

[OldGriz]

The norms shift over time. We live in a time when it’s OK for an entire student section to chant “F### Joe Biden” or an entire stadium to chant “ESG.” What hasn’t changed over time is the love of booze. I’m not criticizing any of the above (“F### Joe Biden” or “ESG” or booze). But mix a lot of free speech with a lot of alcohol, and it’s no wonder that the line between funny and toxic seems to blur more and more.

So you're saying alcohol causes people to do dumb things? Nah...that couldn't be the case

LOL.

[PapaG]

The norms shift over time. We live in a time when it’s OK for an entire student section to chant “F### Joe Biden” or an entire stadium to chant “ESG.” What hasn’t changed over time is the love of booze. I’m not criticizing any of the above (“F### Joe Biden” or “ESG” or booze). But mix a lot of free speech with a lot of alcohol, and it’s no wonder that the line between funny and toxic seems to blur more and more.

I was hearing ESGGCG in Bozeman in the 1980s even at Cat-Gris basketball games.

[OldGriz]

The norms shift over time. We live in a time when it’s OK for an entire student section to chant “F### Joe Biden” or an entire stadium to chant “ESG.” What hasn’t changed over time is the love of booze. I’m not criticizing any of the above (“F### Joe Biden” or “ESG” or booze). But mix a lot of free speech with a lot of alcohol, and it’s no wonder that the line between funny and toxic seems to blur more and more.

I was hearing ESGGCG in Bozeman in the 1980s even at Cat-Gris basketball games.

I agree it’s not a new chant. I just meant it’s still OK. The elementary school kids who learned it at those games in the 1980s are now over 50 years olds. What some Griz fans might mistakenly call “toxic” (e.g., being told loudly to “ESG” by youngsters outside Bobcat stadium before the game) is just part of the tradition (and fun for the home crowd).

[BelligerentBobcat]

Indulge me in a thought experiment....suppose the cats won 16 brawls in a row. (Never mind that this is very unlikely....it's a thought experiment!) Would that make the rivalry more toxic, less toxic, or make no change whatsoever? I've heard that the streak made the rivalry more toxic, so I wonder what would happen if the tables turned? Same question about what would happen if we caught up on the overall record

It all depends on griz fans. Nobody respects them. They are a bunch of drunk idiots. Last game I attended in grizz stadium, I was just walking to my seat and I was verbally assaulted and I was getting ready to defend myself from a violent attack. No respect will ever be given by me. They have shown their colors to me.

...and the last time I was at Cat-Griz in Bozeman, some drunken fans told me I "supported rape." The entire game.

Idiots exist in any passionate fanbase, and then emotions fly high during rivalry games. I personally chose that moment to reassess how I wanted to approach the rivalry, and how I wanted my kids to grow up in Bozeman, choosing to be fans of whichever school they wanted. Basically, I support whatever they choose, as long as they don't act like idiots.

Cat fans can be mad that Griz fans were arrogant back in the day (we were), and Griz fans can be mad that Cat fans are arrogant nowadays (you are), but everyone needs to realize that this is FCS football played by 20 year olds kids. No-one is dying over these games. Nobody's life is irrevocably being changed by winning or losing Cat/Griz, or winning or losing a championship. Nobody "needs" to be an unsufferable asshole over all of it.

Just my two cents.


And as a Griz fan who knows #8 (Carson) very well, people need to chill. He's an extremely passionate guy. That's just how he is, all the time. Ask his teammates how much he drives them nuts sometimes. But I respect the hell out how he plays and how much he cares.

Good post. 100% agree.

[grizzh8r]

Indulge me in a thought experiment....suppose the cats won 16 brawls in a row. (Never mind that this is very unlikely....it's a thought experiment!) Would that make the rivalry more toxic, less toxic, or make no change whatsoever? I've heard that the streak made the rivalry more toxic, so I wonder what would happen if the tables turned? Same question about what would happen if we caught up on the overall record

It all depends on griz fans. Nobody respects them. They are a bunch of drunk idiots. Last game I attended in grizz stadium, I was just walking to my seat and I was verbally assaulted and I was getting ready to defend myself from a violent attack. No respect will ever be given by me. They have shown their colors to me.

...and the last time I was at Cat-Griz in Bozeman, some drunken fans told me I "supported rape." The entire game.

Idiots exist in any passionate fanbase, and then emotions fly high during rivalry games. I personally chose that moment to reassess how I wanted to approach the rivalry, and how I wanted my kids to grow up in Bozeman, choosing to be fans of whichever school they wanted. Basically, I support whatever they choose, as long as they don't act like idiots.

Cat fans can be mad that Griz fans were arrogant back in the day (we were), and Griz fans can be mad that Cat fans are arrogant nowadays (you are), but everyone needs to realize that this is FCS football played by 20 year olds kids. No-one is dying over these games. Nobody's life is irrevocably being changed by winning or losing Cat/Griz, or winning or losing a championship. Nobody "needs" to be an unsufferable asshole over all of it.

Just my two cents.


And as a Griz fan who knows #8 (Carson) very well, people need to chill. He's an extremely passionate guy. That's just how he is, all the time. Ask his teammates how much he drives them nuts sometimes. But I respect the hell out how he plays and how much he cares.

Totally agree Silenoz.

People can say what they want about this rivalry. I think for it to be considered one of the best in the nation, you have to take the good with the bad. That said, in my PERSONAL opinion, the worst thing for this rivalry is BOTH sides suggesting the bad stuff doesn't happen on THEIR side, only the OTHER side. That needs to end in my opinion.

I'm so tired of fans coming up with a story of how the other side is so bad. Then the other side has their own stories. Each combating one another and even going as far as disregarding things saying that they never happened. Each just needs to accept the fact that we are two very passionate fanbases, probably 90% of us treating it the right way, but acknowledging that there are 10% or so that are going to act like morons.

On. BOTH. Sides.

Unfortunately, I believe the gris head coach to be part of the 10%. I think he contributed greatly to gris fan arrogance and feelings of entitlement in his first stint as head coach and resumed upon his return. Used to be that I would root for the gris when they weren't playing the Bobcats because they are a Montana team. No more. Put me firmly in the "my favorite teams are the Bobcats and whoever is playing the gris" camp. A lot of this starts at the top - and if the "top" fans the flames, they only get bigger.

This x100. As long as Beavis is the coach there, I will NEVER root for them.

[ilovethecats]

This rivalry is more toxic now than it was during the streak

No chance. It is SO much milder now than the mid-90's to mid-00's it's not even close. The look of it has changed because the Cats actually have good teams but it was flat out nasty during the streak. And maybe at it's worst the five years or so after we ended the streak.

I love where we're at right now. Still a heated rivalry, but nothing like it was from a fan standpoint back then.

[OldGriz]

This rivalry is more toxic now than it was during the streak

No chance. It is SO much milder now than the mid-90's to mid-00's it's not even close. The look of it has changed because the Cats actually have good teams but it was flat out nasty during the streak. And maybe at it's worst the five years or so after we ended the streak.

I love where we're at right now. Still a heated rivalry, but nothing like it was from a fan standpoint back then.

The ‘70s were not tame. I remember in ‘77, one year removed from a national championship, the Cats lost decisively to the Griz in Missoula at old Dornblaser. The number of fights that day at the old Legion baseball field next to the football stadium was too many to count. Then again, maybe the nearly sanctioned or organized nature of the pugilistic side show almost helped to release the pent-up steam and served to lower the toxicity?

[WalkOn79]

The fact that the Cats won 16 out of 20 leading up to the streak made it even more unbearable for fans of a certain age. I grew up hardly ever seeing the Cats lose that game. It was inconceivable to me that we would let our football team fall so far as to lose 16 in a row. We were the one's winning championships, dammit!!

University Presidents and Athletic Directors let that happen...

Exactly! The athletic budget was slashed in the mid 80s at MSU and that definitely contributed. Remember having to go to play the big paycheck game against the Emmitt Smith led Gators in Florida?

Well, that and hiring the worst head football coach in modern MSU history.

How could anyone forget 79-0

69-0. They also lost to Mesa State 41-10 the very next weekend.

My bad. Just remember it being a lot!!!!

[ilovethecats]

This rivalry is more toxic now than it was during the streak

No chance. It is SO much milder now than the mid-90's to mid-00's it's not even close. The look of it has changed because the Cats actually have good teams but it was flat out nasty during the streak. And maybe at it's worst the five years or so after we ended the streak.

I love where we're at right now. Still a heated rivalry, but nothing like it was from a fan standpoint back then.

The ‘70s were not tame. I remember in ‘77, one year removed from a national championship, the Cats lost decisively to the Griz in Missoula at old Dornblaser. The number of fights that day at the old Legion baseball field next to the football stadium was too many to count. Then again, maybe the nearly sanctioned or organized nature of the pugilistic side show almost helped to release the pent-up steam and served to lower the toxicity?

I can’t speak to that OG, but I have no doubt you’re correct. My point was that those that think the rivalry is so bad right now, either weren’t alive or weren’t paying attention in the mid 90’s and later. It was bad.

[AFCAT]

This rivalry is more toxic now than it was during the streak

No chance. It is SO much milder now than the mid-90's to mid-00's it's not even close. The look of it has changed because the Cats actually have good teams but it was flat out nasty during the streak. And maybe at it's worst the five years or so after we ended the streak.

I love where we're at right now. Still a heated rivalry, but nothing like it was from a fan standpoint back then.

The ‘70s were not tame. I remember in ‘77, one year removed from a national championship, the Cats lost decisively to the Griz in Missoula at old Dornblaser. The number of fights that day at the old Legion baseball field next to the football stadium was too many to count. Then again, maybe the nearly sanctioned or organized nature of the pugilistic side show almost helped to release the pent-up steam and served to lower the toxicity?

The Cats beat the gris in 1977, 24-19 in Bozeman

[lutecat]

Indulge me in a thought experiment....suppose the cats won 16 brawls in a row. (Never mind that this is very unlikely....it's a thought experiment!) Would that make the rivalry more toxic, less toxic, or make no change whatsoever? I've heard that the streak made the rivalry more toxic, so I wonder what would happen if the tables turned? Same question about what would happen if we caught up on the overall record

It all depends on griz fans. Nobody respects them. They are a bunch of drunk idiots. Last game I attended in grizz stadium, I was just walking to my seat and I was verbally assaulted and I was getting ready to defend myself from a violent attack. No respect will ever be given by me. They have shown their colors to me.

...and the last time I was at Cat-Griz in Bozeman, some drunken fans told me I "supported rape." The entire game.

Idiots exist in any passionate fanbase, and then emotions fly high during rivalry games. I personally chose that moment to reassess how I wanted to approach the rivalry, and how I wanted my kids to grow up in Bozeman, choosing to be fans of whichever school they wanted. Basically, I support whatever they choose, as long as they don't act like idiots.

Cat fans can be mad that Griz fans were arrogant back in the day (we were), and Griz fans can be mad that Cat fans are arrogant nowadays (you are), but everyone needs to realize that this is FCS football played by 20 year olds kids. No-one is dying over these games. Nobody's life is irrevocably being changed by winning or losing Cat/Griz, or winning or losing a championship. Nobody "needs" to be an unsufferable asshole over all of it.

Just my two cents.


And as a Griz fan who knows #8 (Carson) very well, people need to chill. He's an extremely passionate guy. That's just how he is, all the time. Ask his teammates how much he drives them nuts sometimes. But I respect the hell out how he plays and how much he cares.

Dude thank you for coming over and offering your take. Spot on. You exemplify what's right in this rivalry.

[OldGriz]

This rivalry is more toxic now than it was during the streak

No chance. It is SO much milder now than the mid-90's to mid-00's it's not even close. The look of it has changed because the Cats actually have good teams but it was flat out nasty during the streak. And maybe at it's worst the five years or so after we ended the streak.

I love where we're at right now. Still a heated rivalry, but nothing like it was from a fan standpoint back then.

The ‘70s were not tame. I remember in ‘77, one year removed from a national championship, the Cats lost decisively to the Griz in Missoula at old Dornblaser. The number of fights that day at the old Legion baseball field next to the football stadium was too many to count. Then again, maybe the nearly sanctioned or organized nature of the pugilistic side show almost helped to release the pent-up steam and served to lower the toxicity?

The Cats beat the gris in 1977, 24-19 in Bozeman

My bad … it was 1978.

[robgriz]

Indulge me in a thought experiment....suppose the cats won 16 brawls in a row. (Never mind that this is very unlikely....it's a thought experiment!) Would that make the rivalry more toxic, less toxic, or make no change whatsoever? I've heard that the streak made the rivalry more toxic, so I wonder what would happen if the tables turned? Same question about what would happen if we caught up on the overall record

Toxic Fans make the rivalry toxic. Too many middle aged juveniles whose identity is wrapped up in college athletics. And it comes from both sides.

[catatac]

Indulge me in a thought experiment....suppose the cats won 16 brawls in a row. (Never mind that this is very unlikely....it's a thought experiment!) Would that make the rivalry more toxic, less toxic, or make no change whatsoever? I've heard that the streak made the rivalry more toxic, so I wonder what would happen if the tables turned? Same question about what would happen if we caught up on the overall record

Toxic Fans make the rivalry toxic. Too many middle aged juveniles whose identity is wrapped up in college athletics. And it comes from both sides.

True, but coaches can help or hinder the toxicity. Not a lot, but it can impact the behavior\attitude of the fans. For example, there is no universe where after a win, Brent Vigen would say something like, "I wish there were five quarters so we could kick their asses some more."

[robgriz]

Indulge me in a thought experiment....suppose the cats won 16 brawls in a row. (Never mind that this is very unlikely....it's a thought experiment!) Would that make the rivalry more toxic, less toxic, or make no change whatsoever? I've heard that the streak made the rivalry more toxic, so I wonder what would happen if the tables turned? Same question about what would happen if we caught up on the overall record

Toxic Fans make the rivalry toxic. Too many middle aged juveniles whose identity is wrapped up in college athletics. And it comes from both sides.

True, but coaches can help or hinder the toxicity. Not a lot, but it can impact the behavior\attitude of the fans. For example, there is no universe where after a win, Brent Vigen would say something like, "I wish there were five quarters so we could kick their asses some more."

Well I didn’t think there was a world where my wife, a native Montanan, would say she’s never going back to bobcat stadium because of the way we were treated. And that had nothing to do with Bobby Hauck or any other coach…as a matter of fact Hauck wasn’t the coach when it happened.

No, grown men should be able to handle themselves like men, regardless of what any coach says

[liqud360]

A few years ago, Tommy was eloquent and kind in his post game interview after a Brawl win. Perhaps, with this unique game, if the Cats are winning and do win, then no Mony Mony is played in the stadium.
If the other possibility happens, then we applaud the student athletes for a hard fought game and wish them well.

What is happening to me…I’m starting to care???