Stadium Expansion News For East Side?

[catbooster]

Since catching up on this thread and posting earlier, this topic has been rattling around in my (mostly empty) head. I wonder how big the expansion needs to be? I'm sure MSU knows what they want, but my guess is 25k-28k. That would be about 40% to 55% increase. That's a huge increase percentage-wise.

We all know that the current capacity is about 18k and prior to the 300 or so added in the North endzone this Fall, it was around 17.7k. According to this article, https://msubobcats.com/facilities/bobcat-stadium/1 the end zone addition was 5.2k. 17.7k-5.2k=12.5k in the East and West stands combined. As I recall, when we tore down the old stands to build the new ones on the West side, the new stands actually reduced seating by 1k-2k. I'm guessing of the 12.5k seats, the East side has 7k and the West side has 5.5k. Going from 7k to 17k (10k increase to 28k total) would be almost 2.5 times as many seats on the East side as there are now. That's a lot. It's virtually as many seats on the East side as the entire stadium currently has. I wonder how practical it is to do that without an upper deck. An upper deck would make the price per seat for construction go way up.

For revenue, I recall a discussion here years ago that the boxes were going for $10k/yr and were underpriced because they'd never raised the price. If the theoretical new East side had 40 boxes (2 more than the West side has), I would think that raises more than $3/4 million per year. so several hundred people in 40 boxes raises about the same amount of revenue as 10,000 seats in the stands at $75/seat. The money is in the boxes. Giving 2,500 of the cheap seats to the students is a cheap investment in future donors IMO.

I trust MSU has a good idea of how much added capacity they need to meet the current demand. They will want to build more than that so they have some excess capacity to grow into. They won't want to immediately be faced with having a sold-out stadium and needing to start fundraising again for the next expansion. Similarly, they should be giving enough seats to the students to allow for some growth.

Edit to add:
@Cataholic posted while I was putting this together:

Not sure where you found that with google. Google usually provides a specific site that they pulled the information from. I did find that the end zone expansion added 7,200 seats of which 1,100 were allocated to students.

https://www.montana.edu/pdc/archive/201 ... -zone.html

So my numbers above are off - the end zone was an additional 5,200 seats but 7,200 seats in total - I guess the old end zone seats were 2,000. Regardless, I think the above info is still close enough to point out that 28k is a very big increase in the East side seating (even bigger than I said as the larger end zone seating means the East side is smaller than I estimated).

[Cataholic]

Since catching up on this thread and posting earlier, this topic has been rattling around in my (mostly empty) head. I wonder how big the expansion needs to be? I'm sure MSU knows what they want, but my guess is 25k-28k. That would be about 40% to 55% increase. That's a huge increase percentage-wise.

We all know that the current capacity is about 18k and prior to the 300 or so added in the North endzone this Fall, it was around 17.7k. According to this article, https://msubobcats.com/facilities/bobcat-stadium/1 the end zone addition was 5.2k. 17.7k-5.2k=12.5k in the East and West stands combined. As I recall, when we tore down the old stands to build the new ones on the West side, the new stands actually reduced seating by 1k-2k. I'm guessing of the 12.5k seats, the East side has 7k and the West side has 5.5k. Going from 7k to 17k (10k increase to 28k total) would be almost 2.5 times as many seats on the East side as there are now. That's a lot. It's virtually as many seats on the East side as the entire stadium currently has. I wonder how practical it is to do that without an upper deck. An upper deck would make the price per seat for construction go way up.

For revenue, I recall a discussion here years ago that the boxes were going for $10k/yr and were underpriced because they'd never raised the price. If the theoretical new East side had 40 boxes (2 more than the West side has), I would think that raises more than $3/4 million per year. so several hundred people in 40 boxes raises about the same amount of revenue as 10,000 seats in the stands at $75/seat. The money is in the boxes. Giving 2,500 of the cheap seats to the students is a cheap investment in future donors IMO.

I trust MSU has a good idea of how much added capacity they need to meet the current demand. They will want to build more than that so they have some excess capacity to grow into. They won't want to immediately be faced with having a sold-out stadium and needing to start fundraising again for the next expansion. Similarly, they should be giving enough seats to the students to allow for some growth.

Edit to add:
@Cataholic posted while I was putting this together:

Not sure where you found that with google. Google usually provides a specific site that they pulled the information from. I did find that the end zone expansion added 7,200 seats of which 1,100 were allocated to students.

https://www.montana.edu/pdc/archive/201 ... -zone.html

So my numbers above are off - the end zone was an additional 5,200 seats but 7,200 seats in total - I guess the old end zone seats were 2,000. Regardless, I think the above info is still close enough to point out that 28k is a very big increase in the East side seating (even bigger than I said as the larger end zone seating means the East side is smaller than I estimated).

Great discussion. While I understand the listed seating of around 18,000, we know that we can get 22,000 into the stadium. For all planning purposes, I think of current capacity as around 22,000.

It would be interesting to see the incremental costs of 26,000, 28,000 and 30,000. Is it a big cost increase to go from 26,000 to 30,000, or does the cost increase at a lower incremental amount in comparison to the total cost of the project. For example, would 30,000 require an additional level which could raise costs dramatically?

It is hard to believe but I believe the End zone is almost 15 years old. If we rebuild the East side, we should be planning for the next 50 years. I would think 30,000 at a minimum when we could easily reach 25,000+ today for at least three of the games: Gold Rush, Homecoming, Family Weekend (surprisingly one of the highest demand tickets as families visit students) and CatGriz.

[WalkOn79]

I would be curious to see the actual number of students seeking tickets and the percentage of those getting tickets. I heard it is less than 25% which is embarrassing as an institution. I understand that the system is locking up when student tickets come online for sale because of the heavy demand.

Why is it embarrassing? 17000 students, 20000 stadium. Your not giving students more than 2500 or so because you lose revenue that funds the program.

Really? I recall going to football games as a major experience for me as a student. It also cemented my love for the Cats. I would think accommodating students demand should be a high priority for the university. And I am pretty sure EVERY student pays some type of fee in tuition that is meant to compensate the athletic programs for tickets.

That, and the current students become graduates and alumni that donate back to the athletic programs and university.

I'll ask you same question as I did Cataholic. What # of students is OK. All students probably have a chance at some point. Few seem to attend volleyball and basketball games.

Are you implying that once you get a ticket you go back to the back of the line the next week? I would be suprised if MSU's student ticketing mechanism is that advanced. I don't know how they do it but I assume it's a simple first come first served each week, like concert tickets with a 1 ticket max.

No but if they are persistent seems like they would get at least one a year. I have friends kids who go to everyone so not sure how it works.

You have no idea how those kids got their tickets. They could have purchased them on the secondary market. To argue that the demand does not exist is ridiculous.

Or you could agree that what I heard and what ClowderUp
said happens at times as well. There is no doubt most games there is more demand than tickets but that isn't exclusive to Students. It is for all tickets.
UM seems to be 2500 to 3000. Bigger stadium so lower %of seats but higher per enrollment.
Oregon 6000 but issues with overselling
Other large SEC and Big Ten range 8-30% of total seating.
Demand has go up as enrollment has but overall interest has as well. Stadium hasn't gotten bigger.

I would be surprised if um jas that many student tickets. It appears to me their student section is far smaller than ours. But thats only based on my eyeballing both and thinking we have way more. But if you were to tell me it's more I would believe you. It only looks to be 2 sections and not as many rows. We have 2 or 3? And that whole bottom section. The student experience in Bozeman at games is vastly better than I would thibk it is in Missoula.

That's what I think as well. Looks like we have WAY more seats for students than they do. As a matter of fact in their student section they don't even have seats.

[WalkOn79]

When we get to 30,000, where is everyone going to park?

[ClowderUp]

When we get to 30,000, where is everyone going to park?

I've heard that's all part of the plan. Traffic flow, parking, restrooms, concessions, expanded alcohol serving areas, etc. There was a valuable lesson learned from the idiots over the hill. You can't simply add seats and call it a day. They have more problems with that stadium than you can count.

[WalkOn79]

When we get to 30,000, where is everyone going to park?

I've heard that's all part of the plan. Traffic flow, parking, restrooms, concessions, expanded alcohol serving areas, etc. There was a valuable lesson learned from the idiots over the hill. You can't simply add seats and call it a day. They have more problems with that stadium than you can count.

Yep. One of my work buddies is a Griz. He just laughs at me when I complain about getting through the gate at Bobcat Stadium.

[cats2506]

Just my 2 Cents worth

My son enrolled at MSU in the fall of 2016, he graduated in spring of 2020.
We have season tickets but during that time he bought student tickets. He got a student ticket for every home game during the 4 years. Sometimes he even bought a "buddy ticket" as it was allowed for a friend that was not an MSU student.

My point is that from his experience I believe that every student that really wants to attend football games can. Some of those that are attending for the social aspects of the game may be hit or miss.

[ClowderUp]

When we get to 30,000, where is everyone going to park?

I've heard that's all part of the plan. Traffic flow, parking, restrooms, concessions, expanded alcohol serving areas, etc. There was a valuable lesson learned from the idiots over the hill. You can't simply add seats and call it a day. They have more problems with that stadium than you can count.

Yep. One of my work buddies is a Griz. He just laughs at me when I complain about getting through the gate at Bobcat Stadium.

And after his 12-block walk through a residential neighborhood and he's finally through the gate, I hope he doesn't need to go the the bathroom or buy a hotdog. Gross incompetence.

[RKMCMT]

Just my 2 Cents worth

My son enrolled at MSU in the fall of 2016, he graduated in spring of 2020.
We have season tickets but during that time he bought student tickets. He got a student ticket for every home game during the 4 years. Sometimes he even bought a "buddy ticket" as it was allowed for a friend that was not an MSU student.

My point is that from his experience I believe that every student that really wants to attend football games can. Some of those that are attending for the social aspects of the game may be hit or miss.

Would be nice if most of them stuck around for the 2nd half.

[Cataholic]

Just my 2 Cents worth

My son enrolled at MSU in the fall of 2016, he graduated in spring of 2020.
We have season tickets but during that time he bought student tickets. He got a student ticket for every home game during the 4 years. Sometimes he even bought a "buddy ticket" as it was allowed for a friend that was not an MSU student.

My point is that from his experience I believe that every student that really wants to attend football games can. Some of those that are attending for the social aspects of the game may be hit or miss.

We have only been to two national championships since then and enrollment has climbed another 1,000+. But hey, you are sure nothing has changed with the demand for student tickets.

[RockyBearCat]

Fewer fans in general attend basketball and volleyball as well. You could answer your own question for us. What number of students is okay to attend a university football games at the university those students attend? Students become graduates that become alumni that become donors of the future. Those same alumni are funding buildings and stadium improvements on campus and I'd submit they are extremely important to the success of MSU in the future. The more MSU students that can get tickets to games now and in the future, the better off MSU will be.

So all 17000+ should go to students? What is the demarcation line?

Come on man. Nobody is saying that.

I know he wasn't saying that, the question stated is "What is the demarcation line?"

You asked “should all 17,000 go to students?”. That seems to be quite the exaggeration for the discussion in hand. I don’t think anybody has stated that. Right now, there are no options available for increased student allocation as we are at capacity on a regular basis. With an expansion of the statdium, we should increase the amount allocated to students. I would suggest the same percentage of seats for students as we currently have. Unfortunately, nobody seems to have the actual number being allocated to students.

He said "The more MSU students that can get tickets to games now and in the future, the better off MSU will be." I used a technique I used from an old wiseman call EXAGGERATION. Obviously no one including me think anyone wants all tickets to go to students. My question stands, what do you see as the demarcation line? I'll simplify that for you. What percent does Cataholic think is the right percent to go to students?

[MSU Toddler]

Just my 2 Cents worth

My son enrolled at MSU in the fall of 2016, he graduated in spring of 2020.
We have season tickets but during that time he bought student tickets. He got a student ticket for every home game during the 4 years. Sometimes he even bought a "buddy ticket" as it was allowed for a friend that was not an MSU student.

My point is that from his experience I believe that every student that really wants to attend football games can. Some of those that are attending for the social aspects of the game may be hit or miss.

Wondering out loud: Is the availability of tickets (and cost) better if I enroll at MSU each Fall and get student tickets in the future...

[Cataholic]

Fewer fans in general attend basketball and volleyball as well. You could answer your own question for us. What number of students is okay to attend a university football games at the university those students attend? Students become graduates that become alumni that become donors of the future. Those same alumni are funding buildings and stadium improvements on campus and I'd submit they are extremely important to the success of MSU in the future. The more MSU students that can get tickets to games now and in the future, the better off MSU will be.

So all 17000+ should go to students? What is the demarcation line?

Come on man. Nobody is saying that.

I know he wasn't saying that, the question stated is "What is the demarcation line?"

You asked “should all 17,000 go to students?”. That seems to be quite the exaggeration for the discussion in hand. I don’t think anybody has stated that. Right now, there are no options available for increased student allocation as we are at capacity on a regular basis. With an expansion of the statdium, we should increase the amount allocated to students. I would suggest the same percentage of seats for students as we currently have. Unfortunately, nobody seems to have the actual number being allocated to students.

He said "The more MSU students that can get tickets to games now and in the future, the better off MSU will be." I used a technique I used from an old wiseman call EXAGGERATION. Obviously no one including me think anyone wants all tickets to go to students. My question stands, what do you see as the demarcation line? I'll simplify that for you. What percent does Cataholic think is the right percent to go to students?

I put the answer for you in red in my last response.

[CatBlitz]

Lol, you people and your pedantic bad faith arguments. It's possible to frame your questions without being an asshole.

[ECBobcat]

I have been waiting for @Colter_Nuanez to chime in with insider information, but he hasn’t. So, Colter, what do you know about this stadium expansion stuff? Spill the beans, dude!

[iaafan]

I have been waiting for @Colter_Nuanez to chime in with insider information, but he hasn’t. So, Colter, what do you know about this stadium expansion stuff? Spill the beans, dude!

PhatCat is the most likely to know and he’s been really quiet lately. I take that to mean someone told him to not say anything.

[MSU01]

Just my 2 Cents worth

My son enrolled at MSU in the fall of 2016, he graduated in spring of 2020.
We have season tickets but during that time he bought student tickets. He got a student ticket for every home game during the 4 years. Sometimes he even bought a "buddy ticket" as it was allowed for a friend that was not an MSU student.

My point is that from his experience I believe that every student that really wants to attend football games can. Some of those that are attending for the social aspects of the game may be hit or miss.

Would be nice if most of them stuck around for the 2nd half.

That's not unique to students though, last Saturday at least half of the people who sit near us left for the tailgates late in the second quarter and never returned.

My answer to "how big should the expansion be" will always be that it should be dictated by the amount of money they have to spend. If they can afford to go big with it, then absolutely they should do that. Plan for the long-term because MSU won't be playing in the FCS and Big Sky Conference forever.

[coloradocat]

Just my 2 Cents worth

My son enrolled at MSU in the fall of 2016, he graduated in spring of 2020.
We have season tickets but during that time he bought student tickets. He got a student ticket for every home game during the 4 years. Sometimes he even bought a "buddy ticket" as it was allowed for a friend that was not an MSU student.

My point is that from his experience I believe that every student that really wants to attend football games can. Some of those that are attending for the social aspects of the game may be hit or miss.

Would be nice if most of them stuck around for the 2nd half.

That's not unique to students though, last Saturday at least half of the people who sit near us left for the tailgates late in the second quarter and never returned.

My answer to "how big should the expansion be" will always be that it should be dictated by the amount of money they have to spend. If they can afford to go big with it, then absolutely they should do that. Plan for the long-term because MSU won't be playing in the FCS and Big Sky Conference forever.

The downside to adding too many seats is that they look bad when they're empty. That's the only downside and we already have that in the second half of a majority games with the current capacity. Might as well spend as much money as you can raise. There can't be much of a difference between promoting a 20K vs 22K vs 25K seating capacity expansion. Anyone who's been to a game during the Vigen era knows we can sell more tickets.

[MSU01]

Just my 2 Cents worth

My son enrolled at MSU in the fall of 2016, he graduated in spring of 2020.
We have season tickets but during that time he bought student tickets. He got a student ticket for every home game during the 4 years. Sometimes he even bought a "buddy ticket" as it was allowed for a friend that was not an MSU student.

My point is that from his experience I believe that every student that really wants to attend football games can. Some of those that are attending for the social aspects of the game may be hit or miss.

Would be nice if most of them stuck around for the 2nd half.

That's not unique to students though, last Saturday at least half of the people who sit near us left for the tailgates late in the second quarter and never returned.

My answer to "how big should the expansion be" will always be that it should be dictated by the amount of money they have to spend. If they can afford to go big with it, then absolutely they should do that. Plan for the long-term because MSU won't be playing in the FCS and Big Sky Conference forever.

The downside to adding too many seats is that they look bad when they're empty. That's the only downside and we already have that in the second half of a majority games with the current capacity. Might as well spend as much money as you can raise. There can't be much of a difference between promoting a 20K vs 22K vs 25K seating capacity expansion. Anyone who's been to a game during the Vigen era knows we can sell more tickets.

Exactly, no matter what you do there will be a significant number of empty seats during blowout games. And it might not look good but I'm fine with having some empty areas in the top corners of an expanded stadium when MSU plays Mercyhurst or Portland State if we have a bigger stadium that will still be packed with fans for Gold Rush, Homecoming, Cat/Griz, and big playoff games.

[coloradocat]

Just my 2 Cents worth

My son enrolled at MSU in the fall of 2016, he graduated in spring of 2020.
We have season tickets but during that time he bought student tickets. He got a student ticket for every home game during the 4 years. Sometimes he even bought a "buddy ticket" as it was allowed for a friend that was not an MSU student.

My point is that from his experience I believe that every student that really wants to attend football games can. Some of those that are attending for the social aspects of the game may be hit or miss.

Would be nice if most of them stuck around for the 2nd half.

That's not unique to students though, last Saturday at least half of the people who sit near us left for the tailgates late in the second quarter and never returned.

My answer to "how big should the expansion be" will always be that it should be dictated by the amount of money they have to spend. If they can afford to go big with it, then absolutely they should do that. Plan for the long-term because MSU won't be playing in the FCS and Big Sky Conference forever.

The downside to adding too many seats is that they look bad when they're empty. That's the only downside and we already have that in the second half of a majority games with the current capacity. Might as well spend as much money as you can raise. There can't be much of a difference between promoting a 20K vs 22K vs 25K seating capacity expansion. Anyone who's been to a game during the Vigen era knows we can sell more tickets.

Exactly, no matter what you do there will be a significant number of empty seats during blowout games. And it might not look good but I'm fine with having some empty areas in the top corners of an expanded stadium when MSU plays Mercyhurst or Portland State if we have a bigger stadium that will still be packed with fans for Gold Rush, Homecoming, Cat/Griz, and big playoff games.

Yeah, major tv games will still look great on tv no matter how many seats we have.