FIRE EVERYONE!

[ilovethecats]

a.129 teams
* Only four current FCS have made Natty in last 5 years;
* Only 7 in last 10.
* It is a very elite group to even get to a Natty (skipping the joke of season 2020).
b. In last 20 years, FCS Champions still in the FCS - NDSU, SDSU, Villanova, Richmond (Fluke), Eastern Washington – 5 teams
c. In last 10 years – Still in FCS - NDSU, SDSU
d. Last 5 years – Appearances and Wins
NDSU – 4 appearances, 3 wins
SDSU – 2, 2
MSU – 2, 0
UM – 1, 0
JMU – 1,0

3) Who are Good teams? Elite? What Tier?
a. Listen to McKinnell’s Podcast today – No question – NDSU, SDSU and MSU are the elite teams
b. Read Herder’s article – No doubt MSU is on the same level of NDSU and SDSU.
c. Follow the other FCS experts. Nearly all say the same thing – MSU is in tier 1.
d. Read the Polls – at 0-2, still number 4.

Finally, every FCS school with anything resembling a decent team (past and present) – NDSU, SDSU, USD, UND, SIU, Ill State, MSU, UM, Idaho, Sac State, UC Davis, Villanova, Richmond, Tarleton State, UIW, ad nauseum… They all say when hiring a coach – our goal is to win the conference; make a deep playoff run, be a national champion. If you are top tier team – tier 1, tier 2, tier 3, 4 or whatever; -- that is what you say. But only 2 have done it in the last 10 years. What happens to these unsuccessful coaches who win the conference; go the playoffs, get to the Natty but don’t win a championship?… Hmm, they move up to FBS, to the big bucks… Choate, Eck, Uremovich, Lamb, Clark, Abell, Taylor… ad Nauseum.

Two things can be true at the same time
1) The Bobcats are an elite team and are in the Top FCS Tier
2) The Bobcats have not beaten NDSU in last 5 years and beat SDSU only once in 5 years.

Finally, all this can be true and I can still be disappointed in the results from Saturday; believe we could have done better; wished we had held serve in Bobcat stadium. Doesn't mean I am complacent. When it is all said and done, it is just 20 year old something boys learning to find their place in life where 99% of them are going to take jobs like you and I have every day.

This is why I said it’s really just semantics at this point. Just an opinion of what puts what teams in what tier. I don’t disagree with a single thing you said about the Cats. They have been an elite program over the last half decade. We’re primed to be a very good team for years to come in my opinion.

I’ve already said I think we run the table until the Brawl in which the home team has dominated so that could go either way. Only game that gives me pause is at NAU just cause it’s AT NAU where we never seem to have our A-game. But I think we find a way to win.

So with ALL that being said, and how elite I think this program has been, I still can’t put them in the same tier of the two teams that have won the last 4 national championships and 7 of the last 8. Two teams we can’t beat except for one single time. Which I loved and it was an electric day!

I just simply can’t see how people think we belong in the same group as two teams that win championships and two teams that have beaten us basically every time we’ve played them?

Still love this team. Love the coaching. Hoping I can grow to love the play calling. Love our program and our future. Love our prospects of getting a top seed. Love our chances of making a run at a title. All those things are true in my mind. I’m just of the belief that at some point, we need to show we can beat the Dakotas cause that’s what it’s gonna take to win it all.

Hypothetical for you. If Cats had beaten NDSU last year and lost last weekenddoes that put them on their level. How about if had beaten NDSU the year before,lost to Griz in Semi, and then lost last two. How many wins vs DSUs does it take? Or what if Cats had one championship but got blown out that last time at home vs NDSU and last weekend, re we at their level with a crown.

Well in your scenario last year we would have won a national championship with a win against a Dakota. If after that someone said we were in the top tier with the DSU’s I’d agree cause we’d have beaten them both in a matter if a few seasons, AND won a national championship. So I’d be fine with that.

Just my opinion of course I just don’t see any scenario where we should be in the top tier with those schools when they always beat us and also win national championships.

If we beat them in the playoffs and win a title I’m fine putting them in that boat. Until then I don’t see how some fans are acting like the 3 of us are the same.

[iaafan]

That is true 100%. But like I said even the griz managed to beat ndsu once in the playoffs. It gets frustrating.

The Griz haven’t “managed” to beat SDSU since 2021. In fact, the Griz have only managed to play them twice. They lost by 20 and 18 and it wasn’t that close. The Jacks averaged about 7 yards per play and um 3.5 in 2023 and um scored twice in last minutes after being down 35-3.

They’ve only played NDSU twice in the same span. The other game was a 49-26 loss and they scored with about a minute to play to make it look a little closer.

So in their last four games over 4 years they’ve been wiped out three times and beat an unseeded NDSU team in double overtime. MSU has played them five times. Yes, only one win but it didn’t take OT and it didn’t rely on a punt returner. It was by 14 point. It was a second half shutout.

Let’s also keep in mind that we went on the road and beat the #1 seed and also beat a USD team, which beat NDSU a couple weeks earlier by 14.

Sam Houston was a huge win but that's not a dsu school, which is the conversation currently.

I didn't say we suck, i didn't say Vigen hasnt won any big games. And I didn't say the griz managed to beat sdsu. So I'm not sure what part of my post you're debating.

I’m not trying to point out anything wrong in your post. Just shedding light on some other things, while also addressing the DSUs relative to um. Despite winning a game, they’ve looked like trash overall.

[iaafan]

a.129 teams
* Only four current FCS have made Natty in last 5 years;
* Only 7 in last 10.
* It is a very elite group to even get to a Natty (skipping the joke of season 2020).
b. In last 20 years, FCS Champions still in the FCS - NDSU, SDSU, Villanova, Richmond (Fluke), Eastern Washington – 5 teams
c. In last 10 years – Still in FCS - NDSU, SDSU
d. Last 5 years – Appearances and Wins
NDSU – 4 appearances, 3 wins
SDSU – 2, 2
MSU – 2, 0
UM – 1, 0
JMU – 1,0

3) Who are Good teams? Elite? What Tier?
a. Listen to McKinnell’s Podcast today – No question – NDSU, SDSU and MSU are the elite teams
b. Read Herder’s article – No doubt MSU is on the same level of NDSU and SDSU.
c. Follow the other FCS experts. Nearly all say the same thing – MSU is in tier 1.
d. Read the Polls – at 0-2, still number 4.

Finally, every FCS school with anything resembling a decent team (past and present) – NDSU, SDSU, USD, UND, SIU, Ill State, MSU, UM, Idaho, Sac State, UC Davis, Villanova, Richmond, Tarleton State, UIW, ad nauseum… They all say when hiring a coach – our goal is to win the conference; make a deep playoff run, be a national champion. If you are top tier team – tier 1, tier 2, tier 3, 4 or whatever; -- that is what you say. But only 2 have done it in the last 10 years. What happens to these unsuccessful coaches who win the conference; go the playoffs, get to the Natty but don’t win a championship?… Hmm, they move up to FBS, to the big bucks… Choate, Eck, Uremovich, Lamb, Clark, Abell, Taylor… ad Nauseum.

Two things can be true at the same time
1) The Bobcats are an elite team and are in the Top FCS Tier
2) The Bobcats have not beaten NDSU in last 5 years and beat SDSU only once in 5 years.

Finally, all this can be true and I can still be disappointed in the results from Saturday; believe we could have done better; wished we had held serve in Bobcat stadium. Doesn't mean I am complacent. When it is all said and done, it is just 20 year old something boys learning to find their place in life where 99% of them are going to take jobs like you and I have every day.

This is why I said it’s really just semantics at this point. Just an opinion of what puts what teams in what tier. I don’t disagree with a single thing you said about the Cats. They have been an elite program over the last half decade. We’re primed to be a very good team for years to come in my opinion.

I’ve already said I think we run the table until the Brawl in which the home team has dominated so that could go either way. Only game that gives me pause is at NAU just cause it’s AT NAU where we never seem to have our A-game. But I think we find a way to win.

So with ALL that being said, and how elite I think this program has been, I still can’t put them in the same tier of the two teams that have won the last 4 national championships and 7 of the last 8. Two teams we can’t beat except for one single time. Which I loved and it was an electric day!

I just simply can’t see how people think we belong in the same group as two teams that win championships and two teams that have beaten us basically every time we’ve played them?

Still love this team. Love the coaching. Hoping I can grow to love the play calling. Love our program and our future. Love our prospects of getting a top seed. Love our chances of making a run at a title. All those things are true in my mind. I’m just of the belief that at some point, we need to show we can beat the Dakotas cause that’s what it’s gonna take to win it all.

Hypothetical for you. If Cats had beaten NDSU last year and lost last weekenddoes that put them on their level. How about if had beaten NDSU the year before,lost to Griz in Semi, and then lost last two. How many wins vs DSUs does it take? Or what if Cats had one championship but got blown out that last time at home vs NDSU and last weekend, re we at their level with a crown.

Well in your scenario last year we would have won a national championship with a win against a Dakota. If after that someone said we were in the top tier with the DSU’s I’d agree cause we’d have beaten them both in a matter if a few seasons, AND won a national championship. So I’d be fine with that.

Just my opinion of course I just don’t see any scenario where we should be in the top tier with those schools when they always beat us and also win national championships.

If we beat them in the playoffs and win a title I’m fine putting them in that boat. Until then I don’t see how some fans are acting like the 3 of us are the same.

Well, what tier are we in? Tier 2 all alone? Because if you think anyone is the same, then it blows your logic up.

We blasted the F out of Idaho last year and have only lost to them once since 2017. We’ve owned um 6-2 and they’ve been crushed by the DSUs aside from one win which can only be described as a fluke considering their overwhelming losses. Sac won three straight BSC titles but has disappeared. We’ve beaten UC Davis three straight times at least.

SDSU doesn’t even consider um to be competition. Ndsu chalks up their loss to um being a down year for them.

[BelligerentBobcat]

a.129 teams
* Only four current FCS have made Natty in last 5 years;
* Only 7 in last 10.
* It is a very elite group to even get to a Natty (skipping the joke of season 2020).
b. In last 20 years, FCS Champions still in the FCS - NDSU, SDSU, Villanova, Richmond (Fluke), Eastern Washington – 5 teams
c. In last 10 years – Still in FCS - NDSU, SDSU
d. Last 5 years – Appearances and Wins
NDSU – 4 appearances, 3 wins
SDSU – 2, 2
MSU – 2, 0
UM – 1, 0
JMU – 1,0

3) Who are Good teams? Elite? What Tier?
a. Listen to McKinnell’s Podcast today – No question – NDSU, SDSU and MSU are the elite teams
b. Read Herder’s article – No doubt MSU is on the same level of NDSU and SDSU.
c. Follow the other FCS experts. Nearly all say the same thing – MSU is in tier 1.
d. Read the Polls – at 0-2, still number 4.

Finally, every FCS school with anything resembling a decent team (past and present) – NDSU, SDSU, USD, UND, SIU, Ill State, MSU, UM, Idaho, Sac State, UC Davis, Villanova, Richmond, Tarleton State, UIW, ad nauseum… They all say when hiring a coach – our goal is to win the conference; make a deep playoff run, be a national champion. If you are top tier team – tier 1, tier 2, tier 3, 4 or whatever; -- that is what you say. But only 2 have done it in the last 10 years. What happens to these unsuccessful coaches who win the conference; go the playoffs, get to the Natty but don’t win a championship?… Hmm, they move up to FBS, to the big bucks… Choate, Eck, Uremovich, Lamb, Clark, Abell, Taylor… ad Nauseum.

Two things can be true at the same time
1) The Bobcats are an elite team and are in the Top FCS Tier
2) The Bobcats have not beaten NDSU in last 5 years and beat SDSU only once in 5 years.

Finally, all this can be true and I can still be disappointed in the results from Saturday; believe we could have done better; wished we had held serve in Bobcat stadium. Doesn't mean I am complacent. When it is all said and done, it is just 20 year old something boys learning to find their place in life where 99% of them are going to take jobs like you and I have every day.

This is why I said it’s really just semantics at this point. Just an opinion of what puts what teams in what tier. I don’t disagree with a single thing you said about the Cats. They have been an elite program over the last half decade. We’re primed to be a very good team for years to come in my opinion.

I’ve already said I think we run the table until the Brawl in which the home team has dominated so that could go either way. Only game that gives me pause is at NAU just cause it’s AT NAU where we never seem to have our A-game. But I think we find a way to win.

So with ALL that being said, and how elite I think this program has been, I still can’t put them in the same tier of the two teams that have won the last 4 national championships and 7 of the last 8. Two teams we can’t beat except for one single time. Which I loved and it was an electric day!

I just simply can’t see how people think we belong in the same group as two teams that win championships and two teams that have beaten us basically every time we’ve played them?

Still love this team. Love the coaching. Hoping I can grow to love the play calling. Love our program and our future. Love our prospects of getting a top seed. Love our chances of making a run at a title. All those things are true in my mind. I’m just of the belief that at some point, we need to show we can beat the Dakotas cause that’s what it’s gonna take to win it all.

Hypothetical for you. If Cats had beaten NDSU last year and lost last weekenddoes that put them on their level. How about if had beaten NDSU the year before,lost to Griz in Semi, and then lost last two. How many wins vs DSUs does it take? Or what if Cats had one championship but got blown out that last time at home vs NDSU and last weekend, re we at their level with a crown.

Well in your scenario last year we would have won a national championship with a win against a Dakota. If after that someone said we were in the top tier with the DSU’s I’d agree cause we’d have beaten them both in a matter if a few seasons, AND won a national championship. So I’d be fine with that.

Just my opinion of course I just don’t see any scenario where we should be in the top tier with those schools when they always beat us and also win national championships.

If we beat them in the playoffs and win a title I’m fine putting them in that boat. Until then I don’t see how some fans are acting like the 3 of us are the same.

Well, what tier are we in? Tier 2 all alone? Because if you think anyone is the same, then it blows your logic up.

We blasted the F out of Idaho last year and have only lost to them once since 2017. We’ve owned um 6-2 and they’ve been crushed by the DSUs aside from one win which can only be described as a fluke considering their overwhelming losses. Sac won three straight BSC titles but has disappeared. We’ve beaten UC Davis three straight times at least.

SDSU doesn’t even consider um to be competition. Ndsu chalks up their loss to um being a down year for them.

Personally I’d have the DSU’s in Tier 1, MSU in Tier 2, the rest in Tier 3.

The gap between Tier 1&2 is smaller than the gap between 2&3.

[iaafan]

a.129 teams
* Only four current FCS have made Natty in last 5 years;
* Only 7 in last 10.
* It is a very elite group to even get to a Natty (skipping the joke of season 2020).
b. In last 20 years, FCS Champions still in the FCS - NDSU, SDSU, Villanova, Richmond (Fluke), Eastern Washington – 5 teams
c. In last 10 years – Still in FCS - NDSU, SDSU
d. Last 5 years – Appearances and Wins
NDSU – 4 appearances, 3 wins
SDSU – 2, 2
MSU – 2, 0
UM – 1, 0
JMU – 1,0

3) Who are Good teams? Elite? What Tier?
a. Listen to McKinnell’s Podcast today – No question – NDSU, SDSU and MSU are the elite teams
b. Read Herder’s article – No doubt MSU is on the same level of NDSU and SDSU.
c. Follow the other FCS experts. Nearly all say the same thing – MSU is in tier 1.
d. Read the Polls – at 0-2, still number 4.

Finally, every FCS school with anything resembling a decent team (past and present) – NDSU, SDSU, USD, UND, SIU, Ill State, MSU, UM, Idaho, Sac State, UC Davis, Villanova, Richmond, Tarleton State, UIW, ad nauseum… They all say when hiring a coach – our goal is to win the conference; make a deep playoff run, be a national champion. If you are top tier team – tier 1, tier 2, tier 3, 4 or whatever; -- that is what you say. But only 2 have done it in the last 10 years. What happens to these unsuccessful coaches who win the conference; go the playoffs, get to the Natty but don’t win a championship?… Hmm, they move up to FBS, to the big bucks… Choate, Eck, Uremovich, Lamb, Clark, Abell, Taylor… ad Nauseum.

Two things can be true at the same time
1) The Bobcats are an elite team and are in the Top FCS Tier
2) The Bobcats have not beaten NDSU in last 5 years and beat SDSU only once in 5 years.

Finally, all this can be true and I can still be disappointed in the results from Saturday; believe we could have done better; wished we had held serve in Bobcat stadium. Doesn't mean I am complacent. When it is all said and done, it is just 20 year old something boys learning to find their place in life where 99% of them are going to take jobs like you and I have every day.

This is why I said it’s really just semantics at this point. Just an opinion of what puts what teams in what tier. I don’t disagree with a single thing you said about the Cats. They have been an elite program over the last half decade. We’re primed to be a very good team for years to come in my opinion.

I’ve already said I think we run the table until the Brawl in which the home team has dominated so that could go either way. Only game that gives me pause is at NAU just cause it’s AT NAU where we never seem to have our A-game. But I think we find a way to win.

So with ALL that being said, and how elite I think this program has been, I still can’t put them in the same tier of the two teams that have won the last 4 national championships and 7 of the last 8. Two teams we can’t beat except for one single time. Which I loved and it was an electric day!

I just simply can’t see how people think we belong in the same group as two teams that win championships and two teams that have beaten us basically every time we’ve played them?

Still love this team. Love the coaching. Hoping I can grow to love the play calling. Love our program and our future. Love our prospects of getting a top seed. Love our chances of making a run at a title. All those things are true in my mind. I’m just of the belief that at some point, we need to show we can beat the Dakotas cause that’s what it’s gonna take to win it all.

Hypothetical for you. If Cats had beaten NDSU last year and lost last weekenddoes that put them on their level. How about if had beaten NDSU the year before,lost to Griz in Semi, and then lost last two. How many wins vs DSUs does it take? Or what if Cats had one championship but got blown out that last time at home vs NDSU and last weekend, re we at their level with a crown.

Well in your scenario last year we would have won a national championship with a win against a Dakota. If after that someone said we were in the top tier with the DSU’s I’d agree cause we’d have beaten them both in a matter if a few seasons, AND won a national championship. So I’d be fine with that.

Just my opinion of course I just don’t see any scenario where we should be in the top tier with those schools when they always beat us and also win national championships.

If we beat them in the playoffs and win a title I’m fine putting them in that boat. Until then I don’t see how some fans are acting like the 3 of us are the same.

Well, what tier are we in? Tier 2 all alone? Because if you think anyone is the same, then it blows your logic up.

We blasted the F out of Idaho last year and have only lost to them once since 2017. We’ve owned um 6-2 and they’ve been crushed by the DSUs aside from one win which can only be described as a fluke considering their overwhelming losses. Sac won three straight BSC titles but has disappeared. We’ve beaten UC Davis three straight times at least.

SDSU doesn’t even consider um to be competition. Ndsu chalks up their loss to um being a down year for them.

Personally I’d have the DSU’s in Tier 1, MSU in Tier 2, the rest in Tier 3.

The gap between Tier 1&2 is smaller than the gap between 2&3.

Absolutely. And the gap is not only smaller but tiny. MSU was screwed in Brookings. Make the right call there and we aren’t having this conversation.

[GoldstoneCat]

a.129 teams
* Only four current FCS have made Natty in last 5 years;
* Only 7 in last 10.
* It is a very elite group to even get to a Natty (skipping the joke of season 2020).
b. In last 20 years, FCS Champions still in the FCS - NDSU, SDSU, Villanova, Richmond (Fluke), Eastern Washington – 5 teams
c. In last 10 years – Still in FCS - NDSU, SDSU
d. Last 5 years – Appearances and Wins
NDSU – 4 appearances, 3 wins
SDSU – 2, 2
MSU – 2, 0
UM – 1, 0
JMU – 1,0

3) Who are Good teams? Elite? What Tier?
a. Listen to McKinnell’s Podcast today – No question – NDSU, SDSU and MSU are the elite teams
b. Read Herder’s article – No doubt MSU is on the same level of NDSU and SDSU.
c. Follow the other FCS experts. Nearly all say the same thing – MSU is in tier 1.
d. Read the Polls – at 0-2, still number 4.

Finally, every FCS school with anything resembling a decent team (past and present) – NDSU, SDSU, USD, UND, SIU, Ill State, MSU, UM, Idaho, Sac State, UC Davis, Villanova, Richmond, Tarleton State, UIW, ad nauseum… They all say when hiring a coach – our goal is to win the conference; make a deep playoff run, be a national champion. If you are top tier team – tier 1, tier 2, tier 3, 4 or whatever; -- that is what you say. But only 2 have done it in the last 10 years. What happens to these unsuccessful coaches who win the conference; go the playoffs, get to the Natty but don’t win a championship?… Hmm, they move up to FBS, to the big bucks… Choate, Eck, Uremovich, Lamb, Clark, Abell, Taylor… ad Nauseum.

Two things can be true at the same time
1) The Bobcats are an elite team and are in the Top FCS Tier
2) The Bobcats have not beaten NDSU in last 5 years and beat SDSU only once in 5 years.

Finally, all this can be true and I can still be disappointed in the results from Saturday; believe we could have done better; wished we had held serve in Bobcat stadium. Doesn't mean I am complacent. When it is all said and done, it is just 20 year old something boys learning to find their place in life where 99% of them are going to take jobs like you and I have every day.

This is why I said it’s really just semantics at this point. Just an opinion of what puts what teams in what tier. I don’t disagree with a single thing you said about the Cats. They have been an elite program over the last half decade. We’re primed to be a very good team for years to come in my opinion.

I’ve already said I think we run the table until the Brawl in which the home team has dominated so that could go either way. Only game that gives me pause is at NAU just cause it’s AT NAU where we never seem to have our A-game. But I think we find a way to win.

So with ALL that being said, and how elite I think this program has been, I still can’t put them in the same tier of the two teams that have won the last 4 national championships and 7 of the last 8. Two teams we can’t beat except for one single time. Which I loved and it was an electric day!

I just simply can’t see how people think we belong in the same group as two teams that win championships and two teams that have beaten us basically every time we’ve played them?

Still love this team. Love the coaching. Hoping I can grow to love the play calling. Love our program and our future. Love our prospects of getting a top seed. Love our chances of making a run at a title. All those things are true in my mind. I’m just of the belief that at some point, we need to show we can beat the Dakotas cause that’s what it’s gonna take to win it all.

Hypothetical for you. If Cats had beaten NDSU last year and lost last weekenddoes that put them on their level. How about if had beaten NDSU the year before,lost to Griz in Semi, and then lost last two. How many wins vs DSUs does it take? Or what if Cats had one championship but got blown out that last time at home vs NDSU and last weekend, re we at their level with a crown.

Well in your scenario last year we would have won a national championship with a win against a Dakota. If after that someone said we were in the top tier with the DSU’s I’d agree cause we’d have beaten them both in a matter if a few seasons, AND won a national championship. So I’d be fine with that.

Just my opinion of course I just don’t see any scenario where we should be in the top tier with those schools when they always beat us and also win national championships.

If we beat them in the playoffs and win a title I’m fine putting them in that boat. Until then I don’t see how some fans are acting like the 3 of us are the same.

Well, what tier are we in? Tier 2 all alone? Because if you think anyone is the same, then it blows your logic up.

We blasted the F out of Idaho last year and have only lost to them once since 2017. We’ve owned um 6-2 and they’ve been crushed by the DSUs aside from one win which can only be described as a fluke considering their overwhelming losses. Sac won three straight BSC titles but has disappeared. We’ve beaten UC Davis three straight times at least.

SDSU doesn’t even consider um to be competition. Ndsu chalks up their loss to um being a down year for them.

Personally I’d have the DSU’s in Tier 1, MSU in Tier 2, the rest in Tier 3.

The gap between Tier 1&2 is smaller than the gap between 2&3.

Absolutely. And the gap is not only smaller but tiny. MSU was screwed in Brookings. Make the right call there and we aren’t having this conversation.

Yep I agree with this. I would put it this way. Those 2 are tier 1. We are 1A. We're ahead of montana, usd, und, tarleton, uiw. I think there's some potential for the Dakota universities to jump up, and objectively montana has enough resources and infrastructure that they are probably the closest to us. Recent title game run, big crowds, improving facilities. We're killing them in state in recruiting, and the universities are on different trajectories, but i don't think we're miles ahead of them from a pure program standpoint.

[91catAlum]

a.129 teams
* Only four current FCS have made Natty in last 5 years;
* Only 7 in last 10.
* It is a very elite group to even get to a Natty (skipping the joke of season 2020).
b. In last 20 years, FCS Champions still in the FCS - NDSU, SDSU, Villanova, Richmond (Fluke), Eastern Washington – 5 teams
c. In last 10 years – Still in FCS - NDSU, SDSU
d. Last 5 years – Appearances and Wins
NDSU – 4 appearances, 3 wins
SDSU – 2, 2
MSU – 2, 0
UM – 1, 0
JMU – 1,0

3) Who are Good teams? Elite? What Tier?
a. Listen to McKinnell’s Podcast today – No question – NDSU, SDSU and MSU are the elite teams
b. Read Herder’s article – No doubt MSU is on the same level of NDSU and SDSU.
c. Follow the other FCS experts. Nearly all say the same thing – MSU is in tier 1.
d. Read the Polls – at 0-2, still number 4.

Finally, every FCS school with anything resembling a decent team (past and present) – NDSU, SDSU, USD, UND, SIU, Ill State, MSU, UM, Idaho, Sac State, UC Davis, Villanova, Richmond, Tarleton State, UIW, ad nauseum… They all say when hiring a coach – our goal is to win the conference; make a deep playoff run, be a national champion. If you are top tier team – tier 1, tier 2, tier 3, 4 or whatever; -- that is what you say. But only 2 have done it in the last 10 years. What happens to these unsuccessful coaches who win the conference; go the playoffs, get to the Natty but don’t win a championship?… Hmm, they move up to FBS, to the big bucks… Choate, Eck, Uremovich, Lamb, Clark, Abell, Taylor… ad Nauseum.

Two things can be true at the same time
1) The Bobcats are an elite team and are in the Top FCS Tier
2) The Bobcats have not beaten NDSU in last 5 years and beat SDSU only once in 5 years.

Finally, all this can be true and I can still be disappointed in the results from Saturday; believe we could have done better; wished we had held serve in Bobcat stadium. Doesn't mean I am complacent. When it is all said and done, it is just 20 year old something boys learning to find their place in life where 99% of them are going to take jobs like you and I have every day.

This is why I said it’s really just semantics at this point. Just an opinion of what puts what teams in what tier. I don’t disagree with a single thing you said about the Cats. They have been an elite program over the last half decade. We’re primed to be a very good team for years to come in my opinion.

I’ve already said I think we run the table until the Brawl in which the home team has dominated so that could go either way. Only game that gives me pause is at NAU just cause it’s AT NAU where we never seem to have our A-game. But I think we find a way to win.

So with ALL that being said, and how elite I think this program has been, I still can’t put them in the same tier of the two teams that have won the last 4 national championships and 7 of the last 8. Two teams we can’t beat except for one single time. Which I loved and it was an electric day!

I just simply can’t see how people think we belong in the same group as two teams that win championships and two teams that have beaten us basically every time we’ve played them?

Still love this team. Love the coaching. Hoping I can grow to love the play calling. Love our program and our future. Love our prospects of getting a top seed. Love our chances of making a run at a title. All those things are true in my mind. I’m just of the belief that at some point, we need to show we can beat the Dakotas cause that’s what it’s gonna take to win it all.

Hypothetical for you. If Cats had beaten NDSU last year and lost last weekenddoes that put them on their level. How about if had beaten NDSU the year before,lost to Griz in Semi, and then lost last two. How many wins vs DSUs does it take? Or what if Cats had one championship but got blown out that last time at home vs NDSU and last weekend, re we at their level with a crown.

Well in your scenario last year we would have won a national championship with a win against a Dakota. If after that someone said we were in the top tier with the DSU’s I’d agree cause we’d have beaten them both in a matter if a few seasons, AND won a national championship. So I’d be fine with that.

Just my opinion of course I just don’t see any scenario where we should be in the top tier with those schools when they always beat us and also win national championships.

If we beat them in the playoffs and win a title I’m fine putting them in that boat. Until then I don’t see how some fans are acting like the 3 of us are the same.

Well, what tier are we in? Tier 2 all alone? Because if you think anyone is the same, then it blows your logic up.

We blasted the F out of Idaho last year and have only lost to them once since 2017. We’ve owned um 6-2 and they’ve been crushed by the DSUs aside from one win which can only be described as a fluke considering their overwhelming losses. Sac won three straight BSC titles but has disappeared. We’ve beaten UC Davis three straight times at least.

SDSU doesn’t even consider um to be competition. Ndsu chalks up their loss to um being a down year for them.

Personally I’d have the DSU’s in Tier 1, MSU in Tier 2, the rest in Tier 3.

Agree 100%

[onceacat]

This entire thread is bogus. Bad look for recruits, parents etc. I think all just put Mr griz lover on block and quit wasting our time. After Cats win this weekend with 300 plus yards of rushing he will be quite for 3 months yet again..

Beat dsus and the gris in Missoula and I’ll be proven wrong about Vigen. I hope I’m wrong and he smokes the gris and one or both of the dsus in the playoffs. If he doesn’t then a pattern is emerging and it needs to be addressed.

Implying I’m a gris fan when truthfully I’d rather be caught in the gears of a combine because I’m questioning Vigen’s ability to beat a dsu is some impressive mental gymnastics. You can check the evidence on this one but his record against the dsus isn’t very good.

He has beaten a DSU in the playoffs.

Once in 5 tries, and sdsu wasn't even seeded that year, they won two road games to make the semi's that year.

Vigen is a great coach, I hope he stays as many years as he wants. But he seems to have a dsu problem. Even the griz have beaten ndsu once or twice. Could be an anomaly but it keeps happening, so at some point you gotta ask why. I don't think that's unreasonable.

He's got the same dsu problem as everyone else in the country but his teams have probably performed better than any other coach in the country as far as the scores go. He's also beaten a dsu as many times as the griz have in the last 15 years.

The Dakota schools have some rich fertile grounds for recruiting. They seem to get all those big Minnesota farmer boys. Midwest Hog Mollies.

Yeah, IIRC last year we rostered around twice as many in-state kids vs NDSU. They've had a national recruiting advantage for quite some time (partly to do with Minnesota being relatively populous).

We're closing the gap, but it's still a relative disadvantage. And one you hate to close entirely. Being a Montanan team is still a priority to balance.

To be fair to NDSU, they’re basically in Minnesota.

Somewhat... But no more than Idaho is in Washington. The attraction is probably mostly self-perpetuating at this point from all the success. But I'm guessing in the beginning, there was some strategy to it.

I’m trying to come up with more, but I think Minnesota only has one Div 1 school. And Minnesota recruits a large region which is why there are a lot of MN guys like the Lances available. Washington is pretty underrecruited, but it still has 3 D1 schools.

[ilovethecats]

a.129 teams
* Only four current FCS have made Natty in last 5 years;
* Only 7 in last 10.
* It is a very elite group to even get to a Natty (skipping the joke of season 2020).
b. In last 20 years, FCS Champions still in the FCS - NDSU, SDSU, Villanova, Richmond (Fluke), Eastern Washington – 5 teams
c. In last 10 years – Still in FCS - NDSU, SDSU
d. Last 5 years – Appearances and Wins
NDSU – 4 appearances, 3 wins
SDSU – 2, 2
MSU – 2, 0
UM – 1, 0
JMU – 1,0

3) Who are Good teams? Elite? What Tier?
a. Listen to McKinnell’s Podcast today – No question – NDSU, SDSU and MSU are the elite teams
b. Read Herder’s article – No doubt MSU is on the same level of NDSU and SDSU.
c. Follow the other FCS experts. Nearly all say the same thing – MSU is in tier 1.
d. Read the Polls – at 0-2, still number 4.

Finally, every FCS school with anything resembling a decent team (past and present) – NDSU, SDSU, USD, UND, SIU, Ill State, MSU, UM, Idaho, Sac State, UC Davis, Villanova, Richmond, Tarleton State, UIW, ad nauseum… They all say when hiring a coach – our goal is to win the conference; make a deep playoff run, be a national champion. If you are top tier team – tier 1, tier 2, tier 3, 4 or whatever; -- that is what you say. But only 2 have done it in the last 10 years. What happens to these unsuccessful coaches who win the conference; go the playoffs, get to the Natty but don’t win a championship?… Hmm, they move up to FBS, to the big bucks… Choate, Eck, Uremovich, Lamb, Clark, Abell, Taylor… ad Nauseum.

Two things can be true at the same time
1) The Bobcats are an elite team and are in the Top FCS Tier
2) The Bobcats have not beaten NDSU in last 5 years and beat SDSU only once in 5 years.

Finally, all this can be true and I can still be disappointed in the results from Saturday; believe we could have done better; wished we had held serve in Bobcat stadium. Doesn't mean I am complacent. When it is all said and done, it is just 20 year old something boys learning to find their place in life where 99% of them are going to take jobs like you and I have every day.

This is why I said it’s really just semantics at this point. Just an opinion of what puts what teams in what tier. I don’t disagree with a single thing you said about the Cats. They have been an elite program over the last half decade. We’re primed to be a very good team for years to come in my opinion.

I’ve already said I think we run the table until the Brawl in which the home team has dominated so that could go either way. Only game that gives me pause is at NAU just cause it’s AT NAU where we never seem to have our A-game. But I think we find a way to win.

So with ALL that being said, and how elite I think this program has been, I still can’t put them in the same tier of the two teams that have won the last 4 national championships and 7 of the last 8. Two teams we can’t beat except for one single time. Which I loved and it was an electric day!

I just simply can’t see how people think we belong in the same group as two teams that win championships and two teams that have beaten us basically every time we’ve played them?

Still love this team. Love the coaching. Hoping I can grow to love the play calling. Love our program and our future. Love our prospects of getting a top seed. Love our chances of making a run at a title. All those things are true in my mind. I’m just of the belief that at some point, we need to show we can beat the Dakotas cause that’s what it’s gonna take to win it all.

Hypothetical for you. If Cats had beaten NDSU last year and lost last weekenddoes that put them on their level. How about if had beaten NDSU the year before,lost to Griz in Semi, and then lost last two. How many wins vs DSUs does it take? Or what if Cats had one championship but got blown out that last time at home vs NDSU and last weekend, re we at their level with a crown.

Well in your scenario last year we would have won a national championship with a win against a Dakota. If after that someone said we were in the top tier with the DSU’s I’d agree cause we’d have beaten them both in a matter if a few seasons, AND won a national championship. So I’d be fine with that.

Just my opinion of course I just don’t see any scenario where we should be in the top tier with those schools when they always beat us and also win national championships.

If we beat them in the playoffs and win a title I’m fine putting them in that boat. Until then I don’t see how some fans are acting like the 3 of us are the same.

Well, what tier are we in? Tier 2 all alone? Because if you think anyone is the same, then it blows your logic up.

We blasted the F out of Idaho last year and have only lost to them once since 2017. We’ve owned um 6-2 and they’ve been crushed by the DSUs aside from one win which can only be described as a fluke considering their overwhelming losses. Sac won three straight BSC titles but has disappeared. We’ve beaten UC Davis three straight times at least.

SDSU doesn’t even consider um to be competition. Ndsu chalks up their loss to um being a down year for them.

Yes, I’d definitely say tier 2 and frankly I don’t care who else if anyone is in it. That was never my point. Nor was it to knock on the Cats at all. All I have ever been saying is it seems crazy to pretend we’re in the same category as two teams we can never beat and who each have 2 of the last 4 NC’s while we don’t have any.