The Ecstasy of Victory and the Agony of Defeat

[aucat]

Since Coach Vigen and several football players were in attendance at the Cat-Griz volleyball game last evening, I thought I would post this on the football feed. ABC used to have the Wide World of Sports where Jim McKay would begin the program with scenes depicting both victory and defeat. I have never before attended an intense rival sports event where BOTH teams, coaches and fan bases got to experience both the Ecstasy of victory and agony of defeat at the same contest. How did this happen? It happened because apparently college volleyball has allowed itself to be RUINED with constant replays and challenges of play. So here we were in the fifth and deciding game of the match. The Cats lead 14-13 and the packed arena in Shroyer Gym was on its feet for match point. The Cats won the point to win the game, 15-13, and the match 3-2. The place went wild. The Bobcat fight song was played. The players, cheerleaders, Champ and fans celebrated. THE ECSTASY of victory.

But wait, the UM Coach saunters over to the scorer's table and requests YET ANOTHER CHALLENGE and REVIEW of the previous play. SO ONCE AGAIN (this must have been about the 10th challenge) they pull out this tiny laptop and the Ref comes over and squints to try to see this little 8 inch screen (I was right behind the scorer's table.) The game was over, the crowd was excited but tired and ready to go home. After all, 5 games with your butt on a hard wooden bleacher takes its toll. But no, we have to all wait.

The Ref after studying the tiny screen announces that the previous play has been overturned. I don't know why, they didn't say. I guess a fingernail touched the ball before it went out of bounds, I don't know. So the score goes back to 14-14. The Griz win the next two points (no challenges were made) so now the Griz fans, players and coaches all celebrate and experience the Ecstasy of victory and now the Cats players, coaches and fans get to suffer the agony of defeat.

Look, I can take losing to the Griz. I don't like it, but frankly I think their team outplayed the Cats last night. WHAT I OBJECT TO is this RIDICULOUS
constant disruption during the game of these "challenges" and "reviews" of plays. In volleyball the ball is flying around at great speeds. To constantly try to see if another player's fingernail may or may not have touched the ball before it went out of bounds is STUPID. These disruptions DESTROY the flow of the game as the fans have to just sit on their hands while the Ref studies the 8 inch laptop monitor.

I have attended many volleyball games and I NEVER remember this happening before. Something needs to be done to change the rules. I don't think I will attend any more volleyball games if this practice of constantly challenging and reviewing plays is the new norm.

[seataccat]

Wasn't it the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat?

[CatBot]

I couldn't get to sleep after that. Tossed and turned for hours.

On a positive note, Bethany does a great job commentating on the ESPN+ stream. I'm thrilled these games are so available. I'm still optimistic this team can make some real noise in the 2nd half of the conference slate.

[aucat]

Wasn't it the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat?

You know, I think you are right!!

[catatac]

I totally agree that constant reviews are a pain and disrupt the flow of the game, but I also think it's important to get the calls right, and replays allow that to happen almost 100% of the time. A fingernail is connected to the hand, connected to the body.

[Joe Bobcat]

That was a messy ugly way for what had been an awesome match to end. I think this is the first year coaches can challenge a certain number of calls per set or match. The situation in question for that volley happened long before the end of the volley. Like it or not the pandora box of replay has been opened in volleyball and isn’t likely to ever be closed. Yes it disrupts the flow but at least it’s quicker than in football. The official must have had a much better camera shot to make her decision on than what we had on ESPN +. I froze the shot and viewed it about frame by frame and it was inconclusive. The cold hard fact is the lady Cats needed to play better last night.

[aucat]

That was a messy ugly way for what had been an awesome match to end. I think this is the first year coaches can challenge a certain number of calls per set or match. The situation in question for that volley happened long before the end of the volley. Like it or not the pandora box of replay has been opened in volleyball and isn’t likely to ever be closed. Yes it disrupts the flow but at least it’s quicker than in football. The official must have had a much better camera shot to make her decision on than what we had on ESPN +. I froze the shot and viewed it about frame by frame and it was inconclusive. The cold hard fact is the lady Cats needed to play better last night.

I agree that the Cats need to play better. In my opinion they were flat out outplayed by UM. How the heck did we
sweep UM in Missoula? It tells me that the Cats are not improving as the season goes along and UM is.

I give the Cats credit for fighting back last night, but yes, those first two games were sad. Way below what I expected to see.

[Helcat72]

Just goes to show you....sweep'n em in Missoula, playing at home doesn't get it. There still has to be that killer instinct and all out effort. The home court doesn't provide that!

[kennethnoisewater]

That was a messy ugly way for what had been an awesome match to end. I think this is the first year coaches can challenge a certain number of calls per set or match. The situation in question for that volley happened long before the end of the volley. Like it or not the pandora box of replay has been opened in volleyball and isn’t likely to ever be closed. Yes it disrupts the flow but at least it’s quicker than in football. The official must have had a much better camera shot to make her decision on than what we had on ESPN +. I froze the shot and viewed it about frame by frame and it was inconclusive. The cold hard fact is the lady Cats needed to play better last night.

I agree that the Cats need to play better. In my opinion they were flat out outplayed by UM. How the heck did we
sweep UM in Missoula? It tells me that the Cats are not improving as the season goes along and UM is.

I give the Cats credit for fighting back last night, but yes, those first two games were sad. Way below what I expected to see.

That might be a little premature. It could be the case, but one match doesn't mean that. MSU had won 6 of its last 7 matches coming into last night, and all 3 losses were to the top 3 teams in the conference (Weber, UNCU, PSU). UM's previous match they'd just gotten swept by NAU. Sounds to me like an off night more than anything.

[Joe Bobcat]

That was a messy ugly way for what had been an awesome match to end. I think this is the first year coaches can challenge a certain number of calls per set or match. The situation in question for that volley happened long before the end of the volley. Like it or not the pandora box of replay has been opened in volleyball and isn’t likely to ever be closed. Yes it disrupts the flow but at least it’s quicker than in football. The official must have had a much better camera shot to make her decision on than what we had on ESPN +. I froze the shot and viewed it about frame by frame and it was inconclusive. The cold hard fact is the lady Cats needed to play better last night.

I agree that the Cats need to play better. In my opinion they were flat out outplayed by UM. How the heck did we
sweep UM in Missoula? It tells me that the Cats are not improving as the season goes along and UM is.

I give the Cats credit for fighting back last night, but yes, those first two games were sad. Way below what I expected to see.

That might be a little premature. It could be the case, but one match doesn't mean that. MSU had won 6 of its last 7 matches coming into last night, and all 3 losses were to the top 3 teams in the conference (Weber, UNCU, PSU). UM's previous match they'd just gotten swept by NAU. Sounds to me like an off night more than anything.

The loss can probably be attributed to multiple factors, but the Cats not improving as the season has gone on is NOT one of them.

[BobcatDel]

Since Coach Vigen and several football players were in attendance at the Cat-Griz volleyball game last evening, I thought I would post this on the football feed. ABC used to have the Wide World of Sports where Jim McKay would begin the program with scenes depicting both victory and defeat. I have never before attended an intense rival sports event where BOTH teams, coaches and fan bases got to experience both the Ecstasy of victory and agony of defeat at the same contest. How did this happen? It happened because apparently college volleyball has allowed itself to be RUINED with constant replays and challenges of play. So here we were in the fifth and deciding game of the match. The Cats lead 14-13 and the packed arena in Shroyer Gym was on its feet for match point. The Cats won the point to win the game, 15-13, and the match 3-2. The place went wild. The Bobcat fight song was played. The players, cheerleaders, Champ and fans celebrated. THE ECSTASY of victory.

But wait, the UM Coach saunters over to the scorer's table and requests YET ANOTHER CHALLENGE and REVIEW of the previous play. SO ONCE AGAIN (this must have been about the 10th challenge) they pull out this tiny laptop and the Ref comes over and squints to try to see this little 8 inch screen (I was right behind the scorer's table.) The game was over, the crowd was excited but tired and ready to go home. After all, 5 games with your butt on a hard wooden bleacher takes its toll. But no, we have to all wait.

The Ref after studying the tiny screen announces that the previous play has been overturned. I don't know why, they didn't say. I guess a fingernail touched the ball before it went out of bounds, I don't know. So the score goes back to 14-14. The Griz win the next two points (no challenges were made) so now the Griz fans, players and coaches all celebrate and experience the Ecstasy of victory and now the Cats players, coaches and fans get to suffer the agony of defeat.

Look, I can take losing to the Griz. I don't like it, but frankly I think their team outplayed the Cats last night. WHAT I OBJECT TO is this RIDICULOUS
constant disruption during the game of these "challenges" and "reviews" of plays. In volleyball the ball is flying around at great speeds. To constantly try to see if another player's fingernail may or may not have touched the ball before it went out of bounds is STUPID. These disruptions DESTROY the flow of the game as the fans have to just sit on their hands while the Ref studies the 8 inch laptop monitor.

I have attended many volleyball games and I NEVER remember this happening before. Something needs to be done to change the rules. I don't think I will attend any more volleyball games if this practice of constantly challenging and reviewing plays is the new norm.

Most of the men’s BB was there behind us aways and they were really into it supporting the ladies!! Fun to see!!

For those that weren’t in attendance, the Lady Cats dug themselves a hole getting down by 2 sets. They won the 3rd set and then won the 4th set in a great great come from behind victory. The house was roaring! That led up to the events in the 5th set described by aucat above. Such a critical call….they ruled 4 touches on the Cats which I certainly did not see. It was a long replay review…It was deflating to the Cats and energizing for the Griz. That type of call is tough to come back from….

[bobcatozzy]

We have some power hitters. But the soft touches over to an outstanding griz team that could dig anything wasn't doing it for the Cats. Spike the crap out of it.

[Bobcat4Ever]

How many reviews are allowed? Enough to call for one when your team just needs a timeout? I just don’t see how this works with volleyball and I’ll just try to explain my opinion, for what’s it’s worth. IMO FWIW.

I was an intense volleyball fan for years, never missing a home match and even going on a couple of road trips when a good friend’s daughter was a star. I’ve obviously never seen replay used, but I’m not sure it’s really needed. Most games are well-officiated and your subconscious reaction to a play is usually far more accurate than your conscious unpacking of what happened. Every match there are many, many close high-speed calls. A certain percentage will always be “missed” compared to a LiDAR device watching the line. But they usually balance out and everybody goes away happy or sad. I don’t ever remember the parents complaining that poor officiating was the cause of a loss — very unlike basketball! Or even football. There are so many calls that are close and could be challenged, does reviewing a small percentage really help? I understand when it’s match point, but a four-hit missed earlier in the set may have determined the result an equal amount. It’s either video review them all or none of them. I vote for none.

[Joe Bobcat]

How many reviews are allowed? Enough to call for one when your team just needs a timeout? I just don’t see how this works with volleyball and I’ll just try to explain my opinion, for what’s it’s worth. IMO FWIW.

I was an intense volleyball fan for years, never missing a home match and even going on a couple of road trips when a good friend’s daughter was a star. I’ve obviously never seen replay used, but I’m not sure it’s really needed. Most games are well-officiated and your subconscious reaction to a play is usually far more accurate than your conscious unpacking of what happened. Every match there are many, many close high-speed calls. A certain percentage will always be “missed” compared to a LiDAR device watching the line. But they usually balance out and everybody goes away happy or sad. I don’t ever remember the parents complaining that poor officiating was the cause of a loss — very unlike basketball! Or even football. There are so many calls that are close and could be challenged, does reviewing a small percentage really help? I understand when it’s match point, but a four-hit missed earlier in the set may have determined the result an equal amount. It’s either video review them all or none of them. I vote for none.

The NCAA Playing Rules Oversight Panel approved an experimental rule allowing women’s volleyball teams to begin a match with two video coach’s challenges in conference matches only for the 2021 season. If the challenge results in the reversal of the original call, the team would retain the challenge. If a match reaches the fifth set, each team would be awarded an additional challenge. Teams would be allowed to carry a maximum of two challenges into the fifth set.
From the games I've watched this year It would appear to me that more than once a challenge has been used more as a time out than actually believing that a call was missed. The situation that got overturned last night was during a rally in the 5th and final set with MSU up 15-14 and serving. The hit sequence went something like this: Cats serve was returned by UM, Cats went dig-set-spike Um blocked the spike back to Cats who went dig-set-spike, that spike hit the top of the net with 2 UM blockers there and the ball returned to the Cats side who went dig-set-spike to the um side and they returned it in 3 hits, then Cats returned in 3 hits, then UM returned in 3 with a spike that was blocked back to the UM side and was down for what seemed to be match point.
The bolded part is where the challenge was made. If the ball hit the top of the net and was touched by a UM blocker it was still a live ball that Cats could play with up to 3 hits. If, however the ball was never touched by the blockers and was sent back to Cats side solely by the net then as soon as a Cat hit the ball it was 4 hits resulting in a side out. That ended up being the call after the review.

If football is a game of inches, then volleyball is a game measured by the thickness of a fingernail.

[DriscollCat]

Wasn't it the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat?

You know, I think you are right!!

You might have had the title of the movie “The Agony and the Ecstasy” in the back of your head (?) iirc it’s about the artist Michaelangelo painting the Sistine Chapel.

[Hawks86]

[aucat]

We have some power hitters. But the soft touches over to an outstanding griz team that could dig anything wasn't doing it for the Cats. Spike the crap out of it.

EXACTLY!! I played competitive volleyball and I mean we played hard. We had one objective each time the ball came over the net: SET IT UP and SPIKE THE HELL OUT OF IT! This is what UM did all night long. On the other hand, time after time, we would meekly lob the ball back over the net to UM WITHOUT EVEN ATTEMPTING to set it up for a spike.

Look, I played VB and I know you can't set it up for a great spike each and every time. But COME ON, why just weakly hit the ball back without even trying to set it up for a spike? Now, granted, there were several times when we DID spike it and UM blocked it down our throats. Well, heck, kudos to UM for making a great play! At least we tried! But so many times we didn't even try.

[aucat]

Wasn't it the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat?

You know, I think you are right!!

You might have had the title of the movie “The Agony and the Ecstasy” in the back of your head (?) iirc it’s about the artist Michaelangelo painting the Sistine Chapel.

Maybe so!!! Thanks for setting me straight!!!

[aucat]

HEY COACH VIGEN: THANKS for attending the Cat-Griz volleyball game and also we really appreciated seeing so many of the football players and basketball players in attendance.

Coach I hope you took home a very important lesson from this loss to the Griz. I hope you analyzed this game and the fact that our MSU
Volleyball team lacked the "killer instinct" and simply did not play aggressive. Maybe our team thought that since they swept UM in Missoula, dominating them in the process, that we could just walk out on the court and sail through.

Didn't work did it?

Not that many years ago we Bobcat fans watched our football team approach the Cat-Griz football game in a lackadaisical manner. We usually got beat. That changed a few years ago. Coach, I am confident that you understand the approach to playing the Griz in ANY sport, but ESPECIALLY football. You come out and play aggressively from the first snap. You hit them in the mouth on the FIRST play of the game and you don't let up for 60 minutes. When you give this effort, win, lose or draw, you can be proud to be a Bobcat. We didn't see that type of effort in Shroyer Gym against our rivals.

[catatac]

HEY COACH VIGEN: THANKS for attending the Cat-Griz volleyball game and also we really appreciated seeing so many of the football players and basketball players in attendance.

Coach I hope you took home a very important lesson from this loss to the Griz. I hope you analyzed this game and the fact that our MSU
Volleyball team lacked the "killer instinct" and simply did not play aggressive. Maybe our team thought that since they swept UM in Missoula, dominating them in the process, that we could just walk out on the court and sail through.

Didn't work did it?

Not that many years ago we Bobcat fans watched our football team approach the Cat-Griz football game in a lackadaisical manner. We usually got beat. That changed a few years ago. Coach, I am confident that you understand the approach to playing the Griz in ANY sport, but ESPECIALLY football. You come out and play aggressively from the first snap. You hit them in the mouth on the FIRST play of the game and you don't let up for 60 minutes. When you give this effort, win, lose or draw, you can be proud to be a Bobcat. We didn't see that type of effort in Shroyer Gym against our rivals.

I get all this, but still always struggle a bit with the mind set. Yes I totally understand Cat\Griz isn't "just another game" and it deserves the extra attention and prep. However, the coaches (Vigen, Choate, and others) preach that when you're on the field representing The Montana State University Bobcats..... you play intense, physical, and hit hard - against avery opponent, every snap.

In other words, we need to come out and smash EWU in the mouth from play one and own that game from a physical stand point. The coaches aren't saying, "ok guys, get out there and hit pretty hard, and play pretty physical, but don't give it everything you have. Save that for UM." Get me?