The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Idaho St. gameday thread

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Joe Bobcat
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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Idaho St. gameday thread

Post by Joe Bobcat » Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:02 pm

tdub wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:52 pm
coloradocat wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:14 pm
BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:55 pm
coloradocat wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:45 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:24 pm
BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:16 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:52 pm
BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:49 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:28 pm
Rewatched a few key plays in the game on DVR. McKay absolutely had that 1st down on the first possession. No part of his body was on the ground except his opposite hand, which is fine. Not sure what they saw that told them he was short.
The spots yesterday were very inconsistent.
They were very consistent... Consistently bad. Guys were getting the spot they slid or rolled to after being tackled. After watching our game and the 1st half of the Sac State game I continue to be baffled how a lot of these guys officiate college football.
Not exactly a great job. Don’t get paid very much and get to be yelled at by thousands of people (and then some online) every weekend. And for us, if they’re any good, they won’t be in the Big Sky for long. It’s just not a desirable job. I sure wouldn’t want it.
Oh I know. I do middle school and high school football in Billings and totally understand the downsides. You have to love football and be a little weird to want to officiate. It's not just the BSC though, it's everywhere, even in the FBS. The Pac12 is just as bad. I've thought about doing the Frontier and trying to get to the BSC eventually, but I care too much about the Cats to give up watching the games to officiate on Saturdays.
Is there a solution to bad officiating?
Pay better. Maybe even try to make it a full time position. It’s a seasonal job, and those typically don’t get the best applicants. Who has the time?
I don't think paying bad officials more money would do anything (see comment about Pac12 above). Better, more consistent, training might though.
I absolutely think paying officials significantly more would move the needle. Not because experienced officials do it for the money, but for the reason it’ll entice younger officials to start. Younger kids will start officiating because there is incentive to do so. Dollar signs are a pretty good motivator for younger kids/adults. Make the pool a little deeper with young officials.
Simple solution is to put the guy 2 rows behind us in radio contact with the official crew. He sees more and knows more than any official that has ever entered the stadium. On a more serious note I agree that increased training should help but at the same time ask if officiating is one of those things where actually do it is the quickest way to improvement?, which of course would need to be followed up with study of what you did right and wrong to get focused on areas needing improvement. One out of the box thought I've had is using virtual reality glasses to give officials as many opportunities to be in the position of reffing as they need or want, to train their eye for where to be looking and what to look for... I think it would make it possible to repeat over and over till the job became second nature. It's been a long time since I did any real reffing and I know little enough about VR so maybe that's just a pipe dream.


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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Idaho St. gameday thread

Post by ilovethecats » Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:14 pm

Accountability. Coaches are accountable. Players are accountable. Hell, FANS are accountable for their decisions during games. As far as I’m aware, officials have little to no accountability for the calls they make on the field.

No one is suggesting it’s an easy job. It’s a thankless job. One of which you’re never going to be perfect. But it’s a job they’ve chosen to do none the less. And with the ability to review calls, there just isn’t an excuse for some of the blatant errors we witness every game. The McKay spot is one of several that jumps out at me. It was a terrible spot, and one that should have been fixed upon review, and wasn’t.

This is the same conference officials that wrongly called a made field a miss in fricking two thousand and twenty one!

I watched the griz—Idaho game today and it was perhaps the worst officiated game I have seen. And what will happen? Absolutely nothing.

But something simply must happen to get better. The players and coaches work way too hard to have to compensate for marginal officiating.



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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Idaho St. gameday thread

Post by BleedingBLue » Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:37 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:14 pm
Accountability. Coaches are accountable. Players are accountable. Hell, FANS are accountable for their decisions during games. As far as I’m aware, officials have little to no accountability for the calls they make on the field.

No one is suggesting it’s an easy job. It’s a thankless job. One of which you’re never going to be perfect. But it’s a job they’ve chosen to do none the less. And with the ability to review calls, there just isn’t an excuse for some of the blatant errors we witness every game. The McKay spot is one of several that jumps out at me. It was a terrible spot, and one that should have been fixed upon review, and wasn’t.

This is the same conference officials that wrongly called a made field a miss in fricking two thousand and twenty one!

I watched the griz—Idaho game today and it was perhaps the worst officiated game I have seen. And what will happen? Absolutely nothing.

But something simply must happen to get better. The players and coaches work way too hard to have to compensate for marginal officiating.
They get a slap on the wrist. If calls are egregious and possibly game changing the crew gets a suspension, generally a game. There are officials that are non-game officials, generally due to age or physical issues that review every game and each possible call that could have possibly been made during the game. Each official gets notes and a grade on their performance. Due to lack of officials, bad grades mean almost nothing.

I have it on good authority that unless McCutcheon is murdered there is to be no PI called against him :lol:



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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Idaho St. gameday thread

Post by ilovethecats » Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:40 pm

BleedingBLue wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:37 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:14 pm
Accountability. Coaches are accountable. Players are accountable. Hell, FANS are accountable for their decisions during games. As far as I’m aware, officials have little to no accountability for the calls they make on the field.

No one is suggesting it’s an easy job. It’s a thankless job. One of which you’re never going to be perfect. But it’s a job they’ve chosen to do none the less. And with the ability to review calls, there just isn’t an excuse for some of the blatant errors we witness every game. The McKay spot is one of several that jumps out at me. It was a terrible spot, and one that should have been fixed upon review, and wasn’t.

This is the same conference officials that wrongly called a made field a miss in fricking two thousand and twenty one!

I watched the griz—Idaho game today and it was perhaps the worst officiated game I have seen. And what will happen? Absolutely nothing.

But something simply must happen to get better. The players and coaches work way too hard to have to compensate for marginal officiating.
I have it on good authority that unless McCutcheon is murdered there is to be no PI called against him :lol:
:lol:

I think you are 100% correct on this. #-o



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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Idaho St. gameday thread

Post by tdub » Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:15 pm

The issue is that literally almost everyone feels they are the ones that need to hold officials accountable, and too many will blow directly past any sort of respect to let it be known. And by disrespect, I don’t mean booing. I mean every other level of garbage they have to put up with. And so few people will ever think it’s worth their time. The negatives outweigh the positives. Don’t get me wrong, I think a coach needs to be able to fight for their team so they entire “no tolerance” policy for addressing officials (i.e. no accountability) isn’t right either. But just like any job, officials need to be held accountable by the the people they report to, like the Big Sky Conference. And ultimately the conference is who needs to feel/hear the heat until officiating improves, not the officials themselves. Maybe I’m a little Pollyanna here, but I believe whole-heartedly that every official out there is absolutely trying their best. So if that’s true and it’s not a personnel issue, then it’s a training issue. But on the flip side if it is a personnel issue, then change personnel….but with whom? There’s not a deep pool to choose from. Not enough officials in the training ground of youth and high school athletics.
My point is that until more people feel that officiating is worth their time, you’ll never have the most talented or best officials. Quality will remain low and probably further degrade over time. So how do you make it worth someone’s time? It has to be rewarding either with $$ or with feeling respected for doing it.


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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Idaho St. gameday thread

Post by ilovethecats » Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:35 pm

tdub wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:15 pm
The issue is that literally almost everyone feels they are the ones that need to hold officials accountable, and too many will blow directly past any sort of respect to let it be known. And by disrespect, I don’t mean booing. I mean every other level of garbage they have to put up with. And so few people will ever think it’s worth their time. The negatives outweigh the positives. Don’t get me wrong, I think a coach needs to be able to fight for their team so they entire “no tolerance” policy for addressing officials (i.e. no accountability) isn’t right either. But just like any job, officials need to be held accountable by the the people they report to, like the Big Sky Conference. And ultimately the conference is who needs to feel/hear the heat until officiating improves, not the officials themselves. Maybe I’m a little Pollyanna here, but I believe whole-heartedly that every official out there is absolutely trying their best. So if that’s true and it’s not a personnel issue, then it’s a training issue. But on the flip side if it is a personnel issue, then change personnel….but with whom? There’s not a deep pool to choose from. Not enough officials in the training ground of youth and high school athletics.
My point is that until more people feel that officiating is worth their time, you’ll never have the most talented or best officials. Quality will remain low and probably further degrade over time. So how do you make it worth someone’s time? It has to be rewarding either with $$ or with feeling respected for doing it.
Agree with all of this. I would never suggest officials don’t care or don’t try. It’s a difficult job for sure. But we’re almost to 2022. Even small conferences like the Big Sky have the benefit of technology and video footage. It’s one thing to miss something in real time. It’s even reasonable to miss “big plays” in real time.

It’s simply not acceptable to still miss these calls after being able to review them in slow motion. And it happens time and time again.

That McKay play happened right in front of me. It was obvious he got the 1st. Then they show it on the big screen. Even more obvious. Meanwhile refs are watching the same play on their own monitor. And still come back with the incorrect call. And this is just one small example.

Think anything happens to that crew? I don’t.

For what it’s worth the ISU tipped TD when the guys feet were out of bounds was overturned. It was obvious. Even so while they were reviewing it I was positive they weren’t overturning it. To their credit they did. I’d just like to see more of that.

It’s a fine line in regards to the flow of the game, but when all us said and done I’d just prefer the call is right. Even if it means a few stoppages in play.



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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Idaho St. gameday thread

Post by coloradocat » Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:37 pm

BleedingBLue wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:37 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:14 pm
Accountability. Coaches are accountable. Players are accountable. Hell, FANS are accountable for their decisions during games. As far as I’m aware, officials have little to no accountability for the calls they make on the field.

No one is suggesting it’s an easy job. It’s a thankless job. One of which you’re never going to be perfect. But it’s a job they’ve chosen to do none the less. And with the ability to review calls, there just isn’t an excuse for some of the blatant errors we witness every game. The McKay spot is one of several that jumps out at me. It was a terrible spot, and one that should have been fixed upon review, and wasn’t.

This is the same conference officials that wrongly called a made field a miss in fricking two thousand and twenty one!

I watched the griz—Idaho game today and it was perhaps the worst officiated game I have seen. And what will happen? Absolutely nothing.

But something simply must happen to get better. The players and coaches work way too hard to have to compensate for marginal officiating.
They get a slap on the wrist. If calls are egregious and possibly game changing the crew gets a suspension, generally a game. There are officials that are non-game officials, generally due to age or physical issues that review every game and each possible call that could have possibly been made during the game. Each official gets notes and a grade on their performance. Due to lack of officials, bad grades mean almost nothing.

I have it on good authority that unless McCutcheon is murdered there is to be no PI called against him :lol:
That grading system must have one hell of a curve!


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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Idaho St. gameday thread

Post by Joe Bobcat » Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:00 am

Joe Bobcat wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:02 pm
tdub wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:52 pm
coloradocat wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:14 pm
BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:55 pm
coloradocat wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:45 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:24 pm
BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:16 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:52 pm
BelligerentBobcat wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:49 pm
91catAlum wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:28 pm
Rewatched a few key plays in the game on DVR. McKay absolutely had that 1st down on the first possession. No part of his body was on the ground except his opposite hand, which is fine. Not sure what they saw that told them he was short.
The spots yesterday were very inconsistent.
They were very consistent... Consistently bad. Guys were getting the spot they slid or rolled to after being tackled. After watching our game and the 1st half of the Sac State game I continue to be baffled how a lot of these guys officiate college football.
Not exactly a great job. Don’t get paid very much and get to be yelled at by thousands of people (and then some online) every weekend. And for us, if they’re any good, they won’t be in the Big Sky for long. It’s just not a desirable job. I sure wouldn’t want it.
Oh I know. I do middle school and high school football in Billings and totally understand the downsides. You have to love football and be a little weird to want to officiate. It's not just the BSC though, it's everywhere, even in the FBS. The Pac12 is just as bad. I've thought about doing the Frontier and trying to get to the BSC eventually, but I care too much about the Cats to give up watching the games to officiate on Saturdays.
Is there a solution to bad officiating?
Pay better. Maybe even try to make it a full time position. It’s a seasonal job, and those typically don’t get the best applicants. Who has the time?
I don't think paying bad officials more money would do anything (see comment about Pac12 above). Better, more consistent, training might though.
I absolutely think paying officials significantly more would move the needle. Not because experienced officials do it for the money, but for the reason it’ll entice younger officials to start. Younger kids will start officiating because there is incentive to do so. Dollar signs are a pretty good motivator for younger kids/adults. Make the pool a little deeper with young officials.
Simple solution is to put the guy 2 rows behind us in radio contact with the official crew. He sees more and knows more than any official that has ever entered the stadium. On a more serious note I agree that increased training should help but at the same time ask if officiating is one of those things where actually do it is the quickest way to improvement?, which of course would need to be followed up with study of what you did right and wrong to get focused on areas needing improvement. One out of the box thought I've had is using virtual reality glasses to give officials as many opportunities to be in the position of reffing as they need or want, to train their eye for where to be looking and what to look for... I think it would make it possible to repeat over and over till the job became second nature. It's been a long time since I did any real reffing and I know little enough about VR so maybe that's just a pipe dream.
Well after my previous post I did a google search and found that VR has been used as a training tool for both players and ref officials for a few years now. https://www.sporttechie.com/nf-refs-str ... ntal-reps/ That is just one of many articles on the subject. It comes as no surprise that I'm years behind the curve on technology. If VR training is showing actual promising results I hope the NCAA is pushing it and getting it to all levels of their competition.


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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Idaho St. gameday thread

Post by CelticCat » Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:54 am

If you want refs to be held more accountable, especially publicly, prepare for an even smaller pool. There is a ref shortage everywhere at all levels already.


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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Idaho St. gameday thread

Post by tdub » Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:07 pm

CelticCat wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:54 am
If you want refs to be held more accountable, especially publicly, prepare for an even smaller pool. There is a ref shortage everywhere at all levels already.
That was my main point I was trying to make as well. Accountability is great, if you have options. It all starts with the depth of the pool. That, and that officials accountability should lie within their chain-of-command, so to speak. Not in every blow hard that can scream obscenities in a crowd. It all factors into the “Is it worth it to officiate” equation.


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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Idaho St. gameday thread

Post by AFCAT » Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:34 pm



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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Idaho St. gameday thread

Post by CatBot » Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:43 pm

AFCAT wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:34 pm
This is the second time MSU has gone national viral with some weird gameday crazy business. This one isn't hitting as big as the tight pants clipboard saga, but it's getting there. I can't decide is MSU receiving this number of mentions and impressions is actually a good thing or not?? :-k



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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Idaho St. gameday thread

Post by technoCat » Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:58 pm

I just keep wondering if that kid fell out of the student section and didn't know where to go so thought "what the hell"...


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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Idaho St. gameday thread

Post by Montanabob » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:24 pm

CatBot wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:43 pm
AFCAT wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:34 pm
This is the second time MSU has gone national viral with some weird gameday crazy business. This one isn't hitting as big as the tight pants clipboard saga, but it's getting there. I can't decide is MSU receiving this number of mentions and impressions is actually a good thing or not?? :-k
Would have been awesome if someone clipped him with a clipboard, just not a player or coach from MSU.


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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Idaho St. gameday thread

Post by CatsFan10 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:35 pm

CelticCat wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:54 am
If you want refs to be held more accountable, especially publicly, prepare for an even smaller pool. There is a ref shortage everywhere at all levels already.
Nobody gets paid enough to deal with our crap 😂



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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Idaho St. gameday thread

Post by coachouert » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:38 pm

technoCat wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:58 pm
I just keep wondering if that kid fell out of the student section and didn't know where to go so thought "what the hell"...
There was an Instagram post filmed from behind him and he jumped over the rail on his accord. Might have been Barstool MSU's post, but I can't remember.


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Re: The Official-unofficial Bobcat-Idaho St. gameday thread

Post by bobcatozzy » Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:38 pm



Rest In peace dad.

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