Post- Game Thoughts

[Joe Bobcat]

Something that shocked me was Troy did not take that pop up fumble to the house!

Yeah but it was a little crowded, even with bodies on the ground plus he had to look up for it and the ball took a little time to come down, then he bobbled it and the Weber guy just happened to be there. If it had popped right into his midsection he would've left that Weber dude grabbing air,
and everyone of us yelling "Hey Touchdown!"

[superbobcat]

Something that shocked me was Troy did not take that pop up fumble to the house!

Yeah but it was a little crowded, even with bodies on the ground plus he had to look up for it and the ball took a little time to come down, then he bobbled it and the Weber guy just happened to be there. If it had popped right into his midsection he would've left that Weber dude grabbing air,
and everyone of us yelling "Hey Touchdown!"

The Weber tackler had a death grip on his one ankle, he knew who had the ball!

[onceacat]

A win is a win, they had 2 weeks to prepare for us at home, this is their season basically, we had a short week yada yada. But if we didn't force those two turnovers that turned into field goals how do we score points? Our defense is elite, but that offense better start doing something. Should easily win next week. But 13 won't cut it against EWU.

13 won’t cut it against EWU.

Weber’s defense is a lot better than EWU’s.

People keep writing that… but the stats don’t bear it out..and neither does on the field performance. EWU only gives up a half yard per play more than Weber. They have the exact same red zone D %…EWU has more takeaways.

Weber’s D may well be better. But not a lot better.

Anyone who’s counting on that to level the playing field is going to be sorely disappointed.

Virtually any stat you look at bears it out.

Bears out that Weber is slightly better? Sure. Over on the other thread, people are claiming that Weber is better than UM, which is absurd. EWU has more takeaways & the exact same red zone D.

So maybe Weebs is a little better, but all the stats say you are pretty much splitting hairs.

EW:

• Rush Yds/Game: 144
• Pass Yds/Game: 249
• Yds per rush: 4.2
• Yds per attempt: 7.3
• Points per game: 31
• Sacks per game: 1.5
• Takeaways: 8

WEB:

• Rush Yds/Game: 115
• Pass Yds/Game: 143
• Yds per rush: 3.5
• Yds per attempt: 4.7
• Points per game: 16
• Sacks per game: 2.6
• Takeaways: 5

Apart from takeaways (which makes sense given that teams have to throw like crazy to try and come back on EW's offense), the Weber defense is superior in basically every way.

Specifically, I'd point out the dramatic difference in the pass defense. Eagles are allowing 2.6 fewer yards per attempt. That's not splitting hairs.

And then of course you have scoring...

Where are you getting your stats? Eags have 13 takeaways, Weber only has 7.

Weber has 15 sacks for -82 yards, EWU has 15 for -91. (2.5 per game to 2.14 per game). EWU has 48 team tackles for loss, Weber only has 34.

Weber allows 4.49 yards per play, EWU allows 5.19.

To me (and others can certainly disagree) EWU plays a fundamentally different philosophy of D….the ONLY thing that matters is making a high % of defensive stops. Yeah, EWU gives up a lot of yards…but they are better at making stops (see the turnover #, especially)

Weebs slows down offenses (which is great) but they aren’t very good at actually stopping a high % of scores. EWU gives up a lot of yards, but ALSO makes a ton of tackles for loss + sacks+ turnovers.

And those are the sort of important stats that lead to wins. It’s like nobody on the WSU staff ever watched Moneyball. If this were basketball, WSU would still be living before the 3 pt revolution.

It’s not that Weber is bad & EWU is good. It’s that Weber is playing football in an era that ended 10 or 15 years ago & keep stuffing the stat sheet with meaningless metrics.

[catatac]

Pass to Pickering after fumble was good play call and possibly a TD if a better throw. Couple other WR screens would have been big gains if Willie gets a better block. We were not getting into a throw it down the field game. They scored we were more aggressive, we tie and get lead we played to not make that critical mistake. But it isn't that we did not ever try other things.

WSU allowed a good percentage of completions, but they hardly allowed any yards after the catch. That's a sign of a really good defense. No QBs hit receivers in stride on every throw. I think it's a little nit-picky to complain (and I'm not saying you're complaining) about McKay's accuracy. He's second in the BSC in completion percentage and second in efficiency. In both cases to this Eric Barriere dude from EWU.

You thought it was nit picky to complain about his accuracy against Weber?

He’s been a solid QB for the Cats, but his passing was bad this Friday, there’s no way around it. Completion % can be misleading, the Pickering throw is a great example. That was a bad pass, still a completion, but a bad pass. On the field it looked bad, on the box score it looks more than fine.

No. He’s a good QB. He’s not inaccurate. QBs throw bad passes. Receivers make great catches and they drop perfect passes. It goes round and round.

I'm not saying that he's inaccurate overall, but he most certainly was very inaccurate on Friday night. There's absolutely no doubt about it. It's one game-- I'm not saying it now defines him-- but it was a plain reality on the field.

He had a couple miscues passing, but he actually threw some really good, accurate balls.

[cats2506]

Beating them,defending conference champs at home and on their homecoming, on a short week, in a place that is difficult to travel to, and they were coming off a bye; I think to many are too critical of what didn’t go great. This win is HUGE!

I have always felt officials are what they are. Sometimes everything works out cleanly and sometime you have to battle through. One thing is for sure: the refs letting them play and the stay in the middle of the field style of both teams made the game go by really fast!

Except the "difficult to travel to", I totally agree.

50-minute flight, directly to Ogden.

My bad, thought I read where they had to bus into Ogden.

Fake news.

Why was that, I thought the BSC had a rule that you have to bus under 500 miles, has that rule changed, (covid?) or is it because it was on Friday?

I don’t remember that ever being a rule. I know they flew to Pokey at least once back in the Kramer days. I know we fly to Spokane for ewu games.

@cats2506 I clearly remember the bus rule, although I remembered it as 400 road miles one-way, and it was quite a few years ago. I just mentioned it to my cousin the other day, thinking it was still in force.

Guess I'm not crazy huh, I wasn't positive on the distance but thought we had to buss to WSU

[TomCat88]

Pass to Pickering after fumble was good play call and possibly a TD if a better throw. Couple other WR screens would have been big gains if Willie gets a better block. We were not getting into a throw it down the field game. They scored we were more aggressive, we tie and get lead we played to not make that critical mistake. But it isn't that we did not ever try other things.

WSU allowed a good percentage of completions, but they hardly allowed any yards after the catch. That's a sign of a really good defense. No QBs hit receivers in stride on every throw. I think it's a little nit-picky to complain (and I'm not saying you're complaining) about McKay's accuracy. He's second in the BSC in completion percentage and second in efficiency. In both cases to this Eric Barriere dude from EWU.

You thought it was nit picky to complain about his accuracy against Weber?

He’s been a solid QB for the Cats, but his passing was bad this Friday, there’s no way around it. Completion % can be misleading, the Pickering throw is a great example. That was a bad pass, still a completion, but a bad pass. On the field it looked bad, on the box score it looks more than fine.

No. He’s a good QB. He’s not inaccurate. QBs throw bad passes. Receivers make great catches and they drop perfect passes. It goes round and round.

I'm not saying that he's inaccurate overall, but he most certainly was very inaccurate on Friday night. There's absolutely no doubt about it. It's one game-- I'm not saying it now defines him-- but it was a plain reality on the field.

He had a couple miscues passing, but he actually threw some really good, accurate balls.

He was 12 for 19. That’s over 60%. Not great, but good. MSU didn’t get anything after the catch that I recall. I don’t think it was due to poor passing. Weber seemed to be right there on every catch. He’s the no. 2 rated quarterback in the nation. I’m not sure what MSU fans are looking for in a quarterback. More of a Dalton Sneed-type guy?

[BelligerentBobcat]

Pass to Pickering after fumble was good play call and possibly a TD if a better throw. Couple other WR screens would have been big gains if Willie gets a better block. We were not getting into a throw it down the field game. They scored we were more aggressive, we tie and get lead we played to not make that critical mistake. But it isn't that we did not ever try other things.

WSU allowed a good percentage of completions, but they hardly allowed any yards after the catch. That's a sign of a really good defense. No QBs hit receivers in stride on every throw. I think it's a little nit-picky to complain (and I'm not saying you're complaining) about McKay's accuracy. He's second in the BSC in completion percentage and second in efficiency. In both cases to this Eric Barriere dude from EWU.

You thought it was nit picky to complain about his accuracy against Weber?

He’s been a solid QB for the Cats, but his passing was bad this Friday, there’s no way around it. Completion % can be misleading, the Pickering throw is a great example. That was a bad pass, still a completion, but a bad pass. On the field it looked bad, on the box score it looks more than fine.

No. He’s a good QB. He’s not inaccurate. QBs throw bad passes. Receivers make great catches and they drop perfect passes. It goes round and round.

He was inaccurate against Weber. It’s unarguable. I’m not saying he’s bad! We’re just talking about one game here.

[Lord Vigo]

A win is a win, they had 2 weeks to prepare for us at home, this is their season basically, we had a short week yada yada. But if we didn't force those two turnovers that turned into field goals how do we score points? Our defense is elite, but that offense better start doing something. Should easily win next week. But 13 won't cut it against EWU.

13 won’t cut it against EWU.

Weber’s defense is a lot better than EWU’s.

People keep writing that… but the stats don’t bear it out..and neither does on the field performance. EWU only gives up a half yard per play more than Weber. They have the exact same red zone D %…EWU has more takeaways.

Weber’s D may well be better. But not a lot better.

Anyone who’s counting on that to level the playing field is going to be sorely disappointed.

Virtually any stat you look at bears it out.

Bears out that Weber is slightly better? Sure. Over on the other thread, people are claiming that Weber is better than UM, which is absurd. EWU has more takeaways & the exact same red zone D.

So maybe Weebs is a little better, but all the stats say you are pretty much splitting hairs.

EW:

• Rush Yds/Game: 144
• Pass Yds/Game: 249
• Yds per rush: 4.2
• Yds per attempt: 7.3
• Points per game: 31
• Sacks per game: 1.5
• Takeaways: 8

WEB:

• Rush Yds/Game: 115
• Pass Yds/Game: 143
• Yds per rush: 3.5
• Yds per attempt: 4.7
• Points per game: 16
• Sacks per game: 2.6
• Takeaways: 5

Apart from takeaways (which makes sense given that teams have to throw like crazy to try and come back on EW's offense), the Weber defense is superior in basically every way.

Specifically, I'd point out the dramatic difference in the pass defense. Eagles are allowing 2.6 fewer yards per attempt. That's not splitting hairs.

And then of course you have scoring...

Where are you getting your stats? Eags have 13 takeaways, Weber only has 7.

Weber has 15 sacks for -82 yards, EWU has 15 for -91. (2.5 per game to 2.14 per game). EWU has 48 team tackles for loss, Weber only has 34.

Weber allows 4.49 yards per play, EWU allows 5.19.

To me (and others can certainly disagree) EWU plays a fundamentally different philosophy of D….the ONLY thing that matters is making a high % of defensive stops. Yeah, EWU gives up a lot of yards…but they are better at making stops (see the turnover #, especially)

Weebs slows down offenses (which is great) but they aren’t very good at actually stopping a high % of scores. EWU gives up a lot of yards, but ALSO makes a ton of tackles for loss + sacks+ turnovers.

And those are the sort of important stats that lead to wins. It’s like nobody on the WSU staff ever watched Moneyball. If this were basketball, WSU would still be living before the 3 pt revolution.

It’s not that Weber is bad & EWU is good. It’s that Weber is playing football in an era that ended 10 or 15 years ago & keep stuffing the stat sheet with meaningless metrics.

I collected stats myself to exclude non-FCS games. I haven’t gotten to this weekend’s games yet.

I also have eyes.

[onceacat]

A win is a win, they had 2 weeks to prepare for us at home, this is their season basically, we had a short week yada yada. But if we didn't force those two turnovers that turned into field goals how do we score points? Our defense is elite, but that offense better start doing something. Should easily win next week. But 13 won't cut it against EWU.

13 won’t cut it against EWU.

Weber’s defense is a lot better than EWU’s.

People keep writing that… but the stats don’t bear it out..and neither does on the field performance. EWU only gives up a half yard per play more than Weber. They have the exact same red zone D %…EWU has more takeaways.

Weber’s D may well be better. But not a lot better.

Anyone who’s counting on that to level the playing field is going to be sorely disappointed.

Virtually any stat you look at bears it out.

Bears out that Weber is slightly better? Sure. Over on the other thread, people are claiming that Weber is better than UM, which is absurd. EWU has more takeaways & the exact same red zone D.

So maybe Weebs is a little better, but all the stats say you are pretty much splitting hairs.

EW:

• Rush Yds/Game: 144
• Pass Yds/Game: 249
• Yds per rush: 4.2
• Yds per attempt: 7.3
• Points per game: 31
• Sacks per game: 1.5
• Takeaways: 8

WEB:

• Rush Yds/Game: 115
• Pass Yds/Game: 143
• Yds per rush: 3.5
• Yds per attempt: 4.7
• Points per game: 16
• Sacks per game: 2.6
• Takeaways: 5

Apart from takeaways (which makes sense given that teams have to throw like crazy to try and come back on EW's offense), the Weber defense is superior in basically every way.

Specifically, I'd point out the dramatic difference in the pass defense. Eagles are allowing 2.6 fewer yards per attempt. That's not splitting hairs.

And then of course you have scoring...

Where are you getting your stats? Eags have 13 takeaways, Weber only has 7.

Weber has 15 sacks for -82 yards, EWU has 15 for -91. (2.5 per game to 2.14 per game). EWU has 48 team tackles for loss, Weber only has 34.

Weber allows 4.49 yards per play, EWU allows 5.19.

To me (and others can certainly disagree) EWU plays a fundamentally different philosophy of D….the ONLY thing that matters is making a high % of defensive stops. Yeah, EWU gives up a lot of yards…but they are better at making stops (see the turnover #, especially)

Weebs slows down offenses (which is great) but they aren’t very good at actually stopping a high % of scores. EWU gives up a lot of yards, but ALSO makes a ton of tackles for loss + sacks+ turnovers.

And those are the sort of important stats that lead to wins. It’s like nobody on the WSU staff ever watched Moneyball. If this were basketball, WSU would still be living before the 3 pt revolution.

It’s not that Weber is bad & EWU is good. It’s that Weber is playing football in an era that ended 10 or 15 years ago & keep stuffing the stat sheet with meaningless metrics.

I collected stats myself to exclude non-FCS games. I haven’t gotten to this weekend’s games yet.

I also have eyes.

I haven't had time to watch all of WSUs or EWUs games. But I've watched all of Utahs. They were terrible offensively until they switched QBS...and the awful Utah O absolutely trucked WSU. Haven't watched WSU since then (until Friday) but their stats aren't impressive. Not bad, just not impressive.

Only watched one EWU game against UM. And the D was pretty solid.

So I could certainly be off. All I'm saying is that at some point, if the WSU D wants to prove its at the top of the conference, let alone the nation...it has to prove it on the field. Which they haven't done.

My theory is because Weber can't generate turnovers. So WSU passes the old school eyeball test with their size & speed, but that EWU actually makes the big plays that Weber hasn't been making. And generating 2x the turnovers has a much bigger impact on a game than limiting yards per play by an additional .5 yards.

If the Weber D could figure out how to generate turnovers, they'd be scary good.

[Lord Vigo]

A win is a win, they had 2 weeks to prepare for us at home, this is their season basically, we had a short week yada yada. But if we didn't force those two turnovers that turned into field goals how do we score points? Our defense is elite, but that offense better start doing something. Should easily win next week. But 13 won't cut it against EWU.

13 won’t cut it against EWU.

Weber’s defense is a lot better than EWU’s.

People keep writing that… but the stats don’t bear it out..and neither does on the field performance. EWU only gives up a half yard per play more than Weber. They have the exact same red zone D %…EWU has more takeaways.

Weber’s D may well be better. But not a lot better.

Anyone who’s counting on that to level the playing field is going to be sorely disappointed.

Virtually any stat you look at bears it out.

Bears out that Weber is slightly better? Sure. Over on the other thread, people are claiming that Weber is better than UM, which is absurd. EWU has more takeaways & the exact same red zone D.

So maybe Weebs is a little better, but all the stats say you are pretty much splitting hairs.

EW:

• Rush Yds/Game: 144
• Pass Yds/Game: 249
• Yds per rush: 4.2
• Yds per attempt: 7.3
• Points per game: 31
• Sacks per game: 1.5
• Takeaways: 8

WEB:

• Rush Yds/Game: 115
• Pass Yds/Game: 143
• Yds per rush: 3.5
• Yds per attempt: 4.7
• Points per game: 16
• Sacks per game: 2.6
• Takeaways: 5

Apart from takeaways (which makes sense given that teams have to throw like crazy to try and come back on EW's offense), the Weber defense is superior in basically every way.

Specifically, I'd point out the dramatic difference in the pass defense. Eagles are allowing 2.6 fewer yards per attempt. That's not splitting hairs.

And then of course you have scoring...

Where are you getting your stats? Eags have 13 takeaways, Weber only has 7.

Weber has 15 sacks for -82 yards, EWU has 15 for -91. (2.5 per game to 2.14 per game). EWU has 48 team tackles for loss, Weber only has 34.

Weber allows 4.49 yards per play, EWU allows 5.19.

To me (and others can certainly disagree) EWU plays a fundamentally different philosophy of D….the ONLY thing that matters is making a high % of defensive stops. Yeah, EWU gives up a lot of yards…but they are better at making stops (see the turnover #, especially)

Weebs slows down offenses (which is great) but they aren’t very good at actually stopping a high % of scores. EWU gives up a lot of yards, but ALSO makes a ton of tackles for loss + sacks+ turnovers.

And those are the sort of important stats that lead to wins. It’s like nobody on the WSU staff ever watched Moneyball. If this were basketball, WSU would still be living before the 3 pt revolution.

It’s not that Weber is bad & EWU is good. It’s that Weber is playing football in an era that ended 10 or 15 years ago & keep stuffing the stat sheet with meaningless metrics.

I collected stats myself to exclude non-FCS games. I haven’t gotten to this weekend’s games yet.

I also have eyes.

I haven't had time to watch all of WSUs or EWUs games. But I've watched all of Utahs. They were terrible offensively until they switched QBS...and the awful Utah O absolutely trucked WSU. Haven't watched WSU since then (until Friday) but their stats aren't impressive. Not bad, just not impressive.

Only watched one EWU game against UM. And the D was pretty solid.

So I could certainly be off. All I'm saying is that at some point, if the WSU D wants to prove its at the top of the conference, let alone the nation...it has to prove it on the field. Which they haven't done.

My theory is because Weber can't generate turnovers. So WSU passes the old school eyeball test with their size & speed, but that EWU actually makes the big plays that Weber hasn't been making. And generating 2x the turnovers has a much bigger impact on a game than limiting yards per play by an additional .5 yards.

If the Weber D could figure out how to generate turnovers, they'd be scary good.

I think it’s almost purely about the offenses.

Eastern constantly faces teams that are in catch up mode, struggling to claw back into games, airing it out constantly, and having to attempt volatile plays.

Weber’s defense generally faces balanced attacks because they play closer games. For instance, how many real chances did the Cats give them to intercept a pass on Friday? Realistically maybe once or twice all night?

But we are talking about an Eastern team that allowed Western Illinois to score 56 points, including three straight TD drives to open the game.

I just don’t think there’s a comparison. The way Weber is limiting opposing passing attacks is crazy. They’re allowing close to 4 yards an attempt to FCS opposition. That would be a solid number in the running game!

And for the record, I think Eastern is the much tougher team overall. I’m not predicting a win in Cheney. Their defense is not inept by any stretch, but their effectiveness overall is all about their offense.

[onceacat]

A win is a win, they had 2 weeks to prepare for us at home, this is their season basically, we had a short week yada yada. But if we didn't force those two turnovers that turned into field goals how do we score points? Our defense is elite, but that offense better start doing something. Should easily win next week. But 13 won't cut it against EWU.

13 won’t cut it against EWU.

Weber’s defense is a lot better than EWU’s.

People keep writing that… but the stats don’t bear it out..and neither does on the field performance. EWU only gives up a half yard per play more than Weber. They have the exact same red zone D %…EWU has more takeaways.

Weber’s D may well be better. But not a lot better.

Anyone who’s counting on that to level the playing field is going to be sorely disappointed.

Virtually any stat you look at bears it out.

Bears out that Weber is slightly better? Sure. Over on the other thread, people are claiming that Weber is better than UM, which is absurd. EWU has more takeaways & the exact same red zone D.

So maybe Weebs is a little better, but all the stats say you are pretty much splitting hairs.

EW:

• Rush Yds/Game: 144
• Pass Yds/Game: 249
• Yds per rush: 4.2
• Yds per attempt: 7.3
• Points per game: 31
• Sacks per game: 1.5
• Takeaways: 8

WEB:

• Rush Yds/Game: 115
• Pass Yds/Game: 143
• Yds per rush: 3.5
• Yds per attempt: 4.7
• Points per game: 16
• Sacks per game: 2.6
• Takeaways: 5

Apart from takeaways (which makes sense given that teams have to throw like crazy to try and come back on EW's offense), the Weber defense is superior in basically every way.

Specifically, I'd point out the dramatic difference in the pass defense. Eagles are allowing 2.6 fewer yards per attempt. That's not splitting hairs.

And then of course you have scoring...

Where are you getting your stats? Eags have 13 takeaways, Weber only has 7.

Weber has 15 sacks for -82 yards, EWU has 15 for -91. (2.5 per game to 2.14 per game). EWU has 48 team tackles for loss, Weber only has 34.

Weber allows 4.49 yards per play, EWU allows 5.19.

To me (and others can certainly disagree) EWU plays a fundamentally different philosophy of D….the ONLY thing that matters is making a high % of defensive stops. Yeah, EWU gives up a lot of yards…but they are better at making stops (see the turnover #, especially)

Weebs slows down offenses (which is great) but they aren’t very good at actually stopping a high % of scores. EWU gives up a lot of yards, but ALSO makes a ton of tackles for loss + sacks+ turnovers.

And those are the sort of important stats that lead to wins. It’s like nobody on the WSU staff ever watched Moneyball. If this were basketball, WSU would still be living before the 3 pt revolution.

It’s not that Weber is bad & EWU is good. It’s that Weber is playing football in an era that ended 10 or 15 years ago & keep stuffing the stat sheet with meaningless metrics.

I collected stats myself to exclude non-FCS games. I haven’t gotten to this weekend’s games yet.

I also have eyes.

I haven't had time to watch all of WSUs or EWUs games. But I've watched all of Utahs. They were terrible offensively until they switched QBS...and the awful Utah O absolutely trucked WSU. Haven't watched WSU since then (until Friday) but their stats aren't impressive. Not bad, just not impressive.

Only watched one EWU game against UM. And the D was pretty solid.

So I could certainly be off. All I'm saying is that at some point, if the WSU D wants to prove its at the top of the conference, let alone the nation...it has to prove it on the field. Which they haven't done.

My theory is because Weber can't generate turnovers. So WSU passes the old school eyeball test with their size & speed, but that EWU actually makes the big plays that Weber hasn't been making. And generating 2x the turnovers has a much bigger impact on a game than limiting yards per play by an additional .5 yards.

If the Weber D could figure out how to generate turnovers, they'd be scary good.

I think it’s almost purely about the offenses.

Eastern constantly faces teams that are in catch up mode, struggling to claw back into games, airing it out constantly, and having to attempt volatile plays.

Weber’s defense generally faces balanced attacks because they play closer games. For instance, how many real chances did the Cats give them to intercept a pass on Friday? Realistically maybe once or twice all night?

But we are talking about an Eastern team that allowed Western Illinois to score 56 points, including three straight TD drives to open the game.

I just don’t think there’s a comparison. The way Weber is limiting opposing passing attacks is crazy. They’re allowing close to 4 yards an attempt to FCS opposition. That would be a solid number in the running game!

And for the record, I think Eastern is the much tougher team overall. I’m not predicting a win in Cheney. Their defense is not inept by any stretch, but their effectiveness overall is all about their offense.

I agree with almost all of that. But I also think that goes to the heart of the problem with the Weber D: it doesn’t lead to a good point differential. EWUs D fits with their offensive mentality…high risk, high reward, make the opposing offense take risks, then take advantage.

EWU has always performed well in ‘’high leverage’ situations…and this year is no different (e.g. the end of the game with UM). This years Weber D hasn’t made those kinds of high leverage plays.

I got into trouble for pointing this out with the Cramsey offenses 6 years ago: they passed the eyeball test, and put up Madden type numbers, but could never seal the deal when it mattered. Weebs D looks the same: passes the eyeball test & stuffs the stat sheet,but can’t get the team into position to win games.

Hence the Moneyball reference. Weber does a lot of things well that conventional wisdom says are really important. But they don’t do the important things (e.g. TFL is high leverage spots, r takeaways) as well as Eastern.

[Norsky19]

Looking at where we started every drive, our play calling had to be conservative. Weber’s Defense is legitimately good. McKay didn’t have much time to pass and if we made an error, it gave weebs a short field. Running side to side against a fast Defense usually doesn’t work either. Quick hitters or power running plays were good enough to get it done. There were a few plays that were suspect but we won on the road against a team that’s calling card is great defense.

Coaches and kids did a great job! Great win!

This. Weber interior D-line are legit. We talk about how great are defense is and rightfully so. Then complain about the offense without recognizing Weber is also a top defense. The credit goes to their defense yet we still found a way.

[iaafan]

Pass to Pickering after fumble was good play call and possibly a TD if a better throw. Couple other WR screens would have been big gains if Willie gets a better block. We were not getting into a throw it down the field game. They scored we were more aggressive, we tie and get lead we played to not make that critical mistake. But it isn't that we did not ever try other things.

WSU allowed a good percentage of completions, but they hardly allowed any yards after the catch. That's a sign of a really good defense. No QBs hit receivers in stride on every throw. I think it's a little nit-picky to complain (and I'm not saying you're complaining) about McKay's accuracy. He's second in the BSC in completion percentage and second in efficiency. In both cases to this Eric Barriere dude from EWU.

You thought it was nit picky to complain about his accuracy against Weber?

He’s been a solid QB for the Cats, but his passing was bad this Friday, there’s no way around it. Completion % can be misleading, the Pickering throw is a great example. That was a bad pass, still a completion, but a bad pass. On the field it looked bad, on the box score it looks more than fine.

No. He’s a good QB. He’s not inaccurate. QBs throw bad passes. Receivers make great catches and they drop perfect passes. It goes round and round.

He was inaccurate against Weber. It’s unarguable. I’m not saying he’s bad! We’re just talking about one game here.

You asked a question and I gave you the answer you wanted, yet you’re still carrying on about this. What is it you want exactly? You’re saying a guy is inaccurate after a 12 for 19 game (63%) with no interceptions against one of the best defenses in the FCS over the past four years. It was below McKay’s standards, but above what WSU allows. The worst part of MSU’s passing game was that there was no yardage after the catch 76(?) yards on 19 attempts is bad. Should have around 150-190 yards on 19 attempts. Yes, some of his passes caused that, but receivers occasionally do something after the catch. QBs need to throw the ball where only their receiver can catch it sometimes. Receivers drop passes. QBs are off target. Sometimes everyone is off. Sometimes players are bailing each other out. Poor blocking/good pass rush leads to errant throws. It goes round and round.

[BelligerentBobcat]

I judge accuracy by ball placement, not completion percentage. He was off on Friday compared to his usual. This isn’t complicated.

[mslacatfan]

I judge accuracy by ball placement, not completion percentage. He was off on Friday compared to his usual. This isn’t complicated.

This is true.

Several passes were way off the mark. Even on some of the completions. That one to Pickering for example, Pickering somehow caught it with his feet. Had the pass been accurate he might have scored, as he was wide open.

[grizzh8r]

I judge accuracy by ball placement, not completion percentage. He was off on Friday compared to his usual. This isn’t complicated.

This is true.

Several passes were way off the mark. Even on some of the completions. That one to Pickering for example, Pickering somehow caught it with his feet. Had the pass been accurate he might have scored, as he was wide open.

On that throw, the color guy even made mention that he was rolling to his left and had to throw it on his run. That's a tough throw for any QB to make, even though McKay has been pretty good throwing on the run so far this season.

[mslacatfan]

I judge accuracy by ball placement, not completion percentage. He was off on Friday compared to his usual. This isn’t complicated.

This is true.

Several passes were way off the mark. Even on some of the completions. That one to Pickering for example, Pickering somehow caught it with his feet. Had the pass been accurate he might have scored, as he was wide open.

On that throw, the color guy even made mention that he was rolling to his left and had to throw it on his run. That's a tough throw for any QB to make, even though McKay has been pretty good throwing on the run so far this season.

Just saying- McKay had an off game (compared to what we have seen him do prior to the Weber game). I’m not going to list them all out, but he had a ton of passes that were not as sharp as we are used to seeing with him.

[LTown Cat]

I judge accuracy by ball placement, not completion percentage. He was off on Friday compared to his usual. This isn’t complicated.

This is true.

Several passes were way off the mark. Even on some of the completions. That one to Pickering for example, Pickering somehow caught it with his feet. Had the pass been accurate he might have scored, as he was wide open.

On that throw, the color guy even made mention that he was rolling to his left and had to throw it on his run. That's a tough throw for any QB to make, even though McKay has been pretty good throwing on the run so far this season.

Just saying- McKay had an off game (compared to what we have seen him do prior to the Weber game). I’m not going to list them all out, but he had a ton of passes that were not as sharp as we are used to seeing with him.

He really aimed that throw instead of just throwing it. I think he saw how wide open it was and tried too hard to aim it.

[Lord Vigo]

I agree with almost all of that. But I also think that goes to the heart of the problem with the Weber D: it doesn’t lead to a good point differential. EWUs D fits with their offensive mentality…high risk, high reward, make the opposing offense take risks, then take advantage.

EWU has always performed well in ‘’high leverage’ situations…and this year is no different (e.g. the end of the game with UM). This years Weber D hasn’t made those kinds of high leverage plays.

I got into trouble for pointing this out with the Cramsey offenses 6 years ago: they passed the eyeball test, and put up Madden type numbers, but could never seal the deal when it mattered. Weebs D looks the same: passes the eyeball test & stuffs the stat sheet,but can’t get the team into position to win games.

Hence the Moneyball reference. Weber does a lot of things well that conventional wisdom says are really important. But they don’t do the important things (e.g. TFL is high leverage spots, r takeaways) as well as Eastern.

I take your point, but I just don't quite see it the same way.

I think the reason Weber St. isn't winning more is because they're trying to drag along a pretty lame offense.

Take Friday night as an example-- the defense got tons of key stops all night. If not for turnovers, they would have allowed a single scoring drive. They won the field position battle and got their offense the ball back around mid-field all night long. But the offense did nothing after the first drive, other than give the ball away twice.

So you could say of their defense that they just can't quite seal the deal when it matters, or you can say that they absolutely can, and usually have, but that their offense can't hold up its end of the bargain.

[Lord Vigo]

Pass to Pickering after fumble was good play call and possibly a TD if a better throw. Couple other WR screens would have been big gains if Willie gets a better block. We were not getting into a throw it down the field game. They scored we were more aggressive, we tie and get lead we played to not make that critical mistake. But it isn't that we did not ever try other things.

WSU allowed a good percentage of completions, but they hardly allowed any yards after the catch. That's a sign of a really good defense. No QBs hit receivers in stride on every throw. I think it's a little nit-picky to complain (and I'm not saying you're complaining) about McKay's accuracy. He's second in the BSC in completion percentage and second in efficiency. In both cases to this Eric Barriere dude from EWU.

You thought it was nit picky to complain about his accuracy against Weber?

He’s been a solid QB for the Cats, but his passing was bad this Friday, there’s no way around it. Completion % can be misleading, the Pickering throw is a great example. That was a bad pass, still a completion, but a bad pass. On the field it looked bad, on the box score it looks more than fine.

No. He’s a good QB. He’s not inaccurate. QBs throw bad passes. Receivers make great catches and they drop perfect passes. It goes round and round.

He was inaccurate against Weber. It’s unarguable. I’m not saying he’s bad! We’re just talking about one game here.

You asked a question and I gave you the answer you wanted, yet you’re still carrying on about this. What is it you want exactly? You’re saying a guy is inaccurate after a 12 for 19 game (63%) with no interceptions against one of the best defenses in the FCS over the past four years. It was below McKay’s standards, but above what WSU allows. The worst part of MSU’s passing game was that there was no yardage after the catch 76(?) yards on 19 attempts is bad. Should have around 150-190 yards on 19 attempts. Yes, some of his passes caused that, but receivers occasionally do something after the catch. QBs need to throw the ball where only their receiver can catch it sometimes. Receivers drop passes. QBs are off target. Sometimes everyone is off. Sometimes players are bailing each other out. Poor blocking/good pass rush leads to errant throws. It goes round and round.

You're citing completion % as though it proves what we all know to be untrue because we watched the game.

1) McKay's aDOT was crazy low. 63% is not an impressive number when you're not taking shots down the field. The biggest reason that there was no YAC on the day was that McKay was taking everything short that Weber was giving him on purpose, knowing they'd be in the position to make the tackle. I mean-- the guy completed 63% of his passes and his YPA was 4.0 (4.0!!!).

2) Multiple completions on the day were off the mark and still caught.

I like McKay. He's better than anything MSU has had at QB since Prukop. I am not rooting against him or calling for him to be replaced. But it is just a fact that him and his inaccuracy were far and away the biggest offensive weakness against Weber State.