Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

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BigBruceBaker
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Re: Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

Post by BigBruceBaker » Wed May 12, 2021 1:29 pm

I'm starting to think @iaafan is onto something. No separate but equal, no segregation or different classes. No affirmative action or interview standards.

Hire whomever you want, participate in whatever you want. No one gets special treatment, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion. Best person gets to play or gets hired.

If the NFL is only a bunch of old white guys coaching they were the best people for the job!

If Harvard only brings in the wealthiest of the wealthy good on them!

If Apple only want to hire Chinese 18 year olds to run their tech department and bring them in, awesome!

If a landscaping company doesn't want to pay taxes and only wants to pay illegal immigrants in cash, lets do it!

If that girl can't triple jump 85 feet then just grab some roids and sack up!

60 year old hispanic woman at Walmart that has a few years left until she retires? Can her, bring in the dump truck fire of a meth head thats only 19 for less money!


....this is revolutionary.


I love the Bobcats and the Miami Hurricanes an unhealthy level

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Re: Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

Post by grizzh8r » Wed May 12, 2021 2:11 pm

BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:29 pm
I'm starting to think @iaafan is onto something. No separate but equal, no segregation or different classes. No affirmative action or interview standards.

Hire whomever you want, participate in whatever you want. No one gets special treatment, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion. Best person gets to play or gets hired.

If the NFL is only a bunch of old white guys coaching they were the best people for the job!

If Harvard only brings in the wealthiest of the wealthy good on them!

If Apple only want to hire Chinese 18 year olds to run their tech department and bring them in, awesome!

If a landscaping company doesn't want to pay taxes and only wants to pay illegal immigrants in cash, lets do it!

If that girl can't triple jump 85 feet then just grab some roids and sack up!

60 year old hispanic woman at Walmart that has a few years left until she retires? Can her, bring in the dump truck fire of a meth head thats only 19 for less money!


....this is revolutionary.
Well played triple b... :lol:


Eric Curry STILL makes me sad.
94VegasCat wrote:Are you for real? That is just a plain ol dumb paragraph! You just nailed every note in the Full Retard sing-a-long choir!!!
:rofl:

iaafan
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Re: Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

Post by iaafan » Wed May 12, 2021 2:12 pm

BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:29 pm
I'm starting to think @iaafan is onto something. No separate but equal, no segregation or different classes. No affirmative action or interview standards.

Hire whomever you want, participate in whatever you want. No one gets special treatment, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion. Best person gets to play or gets hired.

If the NFL is only a bunch of old white guys coaching they were the best people for the job!

If Harvard only brings in the wealthiest of the wealthy good on them!

If Apple only want to hire Chinese 18 year olds to run their tech department and bring them in, awesome!

If a landscaping company doesn't want to pay taxes and only wants to pay illegal immigrants in cash, lets do it!

If that girl can't triple jump 85 feet then just grab some roids and sack up!

60 year old hispanic woman at Walmart that has a few years left until she retires? Can her, bring in the dump truck fire of a meth head thats only 19 for less money!


....this is revolutionary.
Are you sure I said that?



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BigBruceBaker
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Re: Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

Post by BigBruceBaker » Wed May 12, 2021 2:38 pm

iaafan wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 2:12 pm
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:29 pm
I'm starting to think @iaafan is onto something. No separate but equal, no segregation or different classes. No affirmative action or interview standards.

Hire whomever you want, participate in whatever you want. No one gets special treatment, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion. Best person gets to play or gets hired.

If the NFL is only a bunch of old white guys coaching they were the best people for the job!

If Harvard only brings in the wealthiest of the wealthy good on them!

If Apple only want to hire Chinese 18 year olds to run their tech department and bring them in, awesome!

If a landscaping company doesn't want to pay taxes and only wants to pay illegal immigrants in cash, lets do it!

If that girl can't triple jump 85 feet then just grab some roids and sack up!

60 year old hispanic woman at Walmart that has a few years left until she retires? Can her, bring in the dump truck fire of a meth head thats only 19 for less money!


....this is revolutionary.
Are you sure I said that?
From @iaafan I'm not sure completely sure why they separate girls and boys sports. I sure it's partly to get greater participation. Girls wanted to be able to participate, so maybe they just made a separate classification for them rather than have them go out for the boys teams. Schools could make more divisions in order to allow as many people to participate as wanted. Your basketball example is a good one. I think more should be done to get more participation in basketball. Most high school teams only have 3-5 seniors participating. There are more kids playing frosh, soph and JV games than there are varsity games. Not that it matters, but I know girls that are better basketball players than boys and I've seen girls teams beat boys teams. I think all high school basketball should be varsity and if you happen to have ten teams in one high school, so be it. If you want to have unisex tryouts, I'm for that too. Sure the top team might be all boys, the top 3-4 teams might be all boys, then some would be mixed and some would be all girls, but all the teams would get a post-season tourney and be able to try to win a championship. I think that would be awesome personally. :D

I'm agreeing you with man! Let's get rid of all the stigmas and separation. One people, one division, we are ONE! No more class C or class AA, no more male/female. If you want to play bball in high school figure out how to dunk, even if that means doing a little bit o' coke in the bathroom to get that extra umpf, or you can be on varsity squad 9 with Billy Bob the mullet'ed 45 year old that has an extra year of eligibility and only 3 fingers on his shootin' hand due to that firework snafu back in '04. I guess technically we should just have a team of whoever wants to participate and everyone gets equal playing time, probably sub every 2-3 seconds which will make the game a bit tough to watch, but in reality it doesn't matter much, so its probably ok. I actually find it a little weird now that we are basing it on performance, that seems to be an unfair classification.


......Plus women get to vote, isn't that enough for them? 8-[ :coffee:


I might be paraphrasing slightly, but I think we can both agree on the major points here. \:D/ Teamwork makes the "one people" dream work!


I love the Bobcats and the Miami Hurricanes an unhealthy level

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Re: Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

Post by coloradocat » Wed May 12, 2021 3:15 pm

Image


Eastwood, did not make it. Ball out! Recovered, by Montana State!! The Bobcats hold!!! The Bobcats hold!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfcr-MPCJKc

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Re: Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

Post by PapaG » Wed May 12, 2021 3:21 pm

Rich K wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:36 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:19 pm
Rich K wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:05 pm
Mark Beggs is a woman that wrestles against other women. Mark Beggs should be disqualified from wrestling because of the substances she is using in an attempt to change her body features that allow her to seem more man-like. These alterations would be advantageous in combat type sports such as wrestling.
Miss Beggs needs to make a decision. Does she wrestle women or continue with her so-called transition?
I'd respectfully suggest that you learn peoples names before you try to make comments. That said...

MACK Beggs is following the rules set out in HB112. If you don't like those rules, you ought to be pissed as hell that Greg G signed this bill into law. He tried to be allowed to wrestle men, but because Texas follows the rules you are supporting, he can't.

Cry me a river of your alligator tears about "protecting womens sports".

If you don't like the rules that forced him to compete against girls, you should have been up in Helena testifying against HB112 in order to make sure that this crap never comes to Montana. No real surprise considering that outsiders have been bringing this culture war crap up here for some time now.
Sorry about the Mark thing, I never should have relied upon you to get that part right since the rest of your reasoning is so far off.
You don't seem to get it. NOBODY is forcing Mack to wrestle anybody. She probably ought to be disqualified from wrestling men or women because of the transformational drugs and treatments.
I remember when the Soviet Bloc and East Germany were pumping testosterone and anabolic steroids in their female athletes and it was banned if they got caught. Now, they would just be “transitioning” and it’s perfect!

As for the wrestler, taking male hormones while competing in HS or the NCAA is banned so why does Beggs get to cheat? Because the cheating is for another reason than other cheating?


Greg K.

iaafan
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Re: Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

Post by iaafan » Wed May 12, 2021 5:12 pm

BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 2:38 pm
iaafan wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 2:12 pm
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:29 pm
I'm starting to think @iaafan is onto something. No separate but equal, no segregation or different classes. No affirmative action or interview standards.

Hire whomever you want, participate in whatever you want. No one gets special treatment, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion. Best person gets to play or gets hired.

If the NFL is only a bunch of old white guys coaching they were the best people for the job!

If Harvard only brings in the wealthiest of the wealthy good on them!

If Apple only want to hire Chinese 18 year olds to run their tech department and bring them in, awesome!

If a landscaping company doesn't want to pay taxes and only wants to pay illegal immigrants in cash, lets do it!

If that girl can't triple jump 85 feet then just grab some roids and sack up!

60 year old hispanic woman at Walmart that has a few years left until she retires? Can her, bring in the dump truck fire of a meth head thats only 19 for less money!


....this is revolutionary.
Are you sure I said that?
From @iaafan I'm not sure completely sure why they separate girls and boys sports. I sure it's partly to get greater participation. Girls wanted to be able to participate, so maybe they just made a separate classification for them rather than have them go out for the boys teams. Schools could make more divisions in order to allow as many people to participate as wanted. Your basketball example is a good one. I think more should be done to get more participation in basketball. Most high school teams only have 3-5 seniors participating. There are more kids playing frosh, soph and JV games than there are varsity games. Not that it matters, but I know girls that are better basketball players than boys and I've seen girls teams beat boys teams. I think all high school basketball should be varsity and if you happen to have ten teams in one high school, so be it. If you want to have unisex tryouts, I'm for that too. Sure the top team might be all boys, the top 3-4 teams might be all boys, then some would be mixed and some would be all girls, but all the teams would get a post-season tourney and be able to try to win a championship. I think that would be awesome personally. :D

I'm agreeing you with man! Let's get rid of all the stigmas and separation. One people, one division, we are ONE! No more class C or class AA, no more male/female. If you want to play bball in high school figure out how to dunk, even if that means doing a little bit o' coke in the bathroom to get that extra umpf, or you can be on varsity squad 9 with Billy Bob the mullet'ed 45 year old that has an extra year of eligibility and only 3 fingers on his shootin' hand due to that firework snafu back in '04. I guess technically we should just have a team of whoever wants to participate and everyone gets equal playing time, probably sub every 2-3 seconds which will make the game a bit tough to watch, but in reality it doesn't matter much, so its probably ok. I actually find it a little weird now that we are basing it on performance, that seems to be an unfair classification.


......Plus women get to vote, isn't that enough for them? 8-[ :coffee:


I might be paraphrasing slightly, but I think we can both agree on the major points here. \:D/ Teamwork makes the "one people" dream work!
:lol: :lol: If you say so!!

But seriously there are a lot of kids left out of a very popular sport in high school. Football has the benefit of having 11 positions on each side of the ball. Yes, some play both ways, but there a lot more opportunity there. Some probably think this would be too cumbersome for space, but I've been to hoop tourneys where there are hundreds, maybe over a 1,000 teams playing on a weekend. They each get 4-5 games in. I just think it'd be really cool if there's, say, 104 boys/girls that want to play hoops at a AA school and you split them into teams of 8 players with the top 8 regardless of sex making up Team 1, then the next 8 are Team 2 and so on. That's 12 teams and eventually you probably have some mixed teams and them probably some teams of girls only. Then there are 12 divisions statewide and each school, depending on size puts together however many teams they can and place them in a class. AA schools would have teams in Divisions 1-12, A schools would have teams in 2-3, 4-7 and 10-12. B schools in 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 and C schools in 4, 6, 8, 10. Something like that. The co-ed teams would be especially fun/interesting to watch IMO. They all go to the corresponding tourney for their division, so you'd have some AA, A, B, C schools with teams in the same division.



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Re: Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

Post by RickRund » Wed May 12, 2021 6:52 pm

PapaG wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 3:21 pm
Rich K wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:36 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:19 pm
Rich K wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:05 pm
Mark Beggs is a woman that wrestles against other women. Mark Beggs should be disqualified from wrestling because of the substances she is using in an attempt to change her body features that allow her to seem more man-like. These alterations would be advantageous in combat type sports such as wrestling.
Miss Beggs needs to make a decision. Does she wrestle women or continue with her so-called transition?
I'd respectfully suggest that you learn peoples names before you try to make comments. That said...

MACK Beggs is following the rules set out in HB112. If you don't like those rules, you ought to be pissed as hell that Greg G signed this bill into law. He tried to be allowed to wrestle men, but because Texas follows the rules you are supporting, he can't.

Cry me a river of your alligator tears about "protecting womens sports".

If you don't like the rules that forced him to compete against girls, you should have been up in Helena testifying against HB112 in order to make sure that this crap never comes to Montana. No real surprise considering that outsiders have been bringing this culture war crap up here for some time now.
Sorry about the Mark thing, I never should have relied upon you to get that part right since the rest of your reasoning is so far off.
You don't seem to get it. NOBODY is forcing Mack to wrestle anybody. She probably ought to be disqualified from wrestling men or women because of the transformational drugs and treatments.
I remember when the Soviet Bloc and East Germany were pumping testosterone and anabolic steroids in their female athletes and it was banned if they got caught. Now, they would just be “transitioning” and it’s perfect!

As for the wrestler, taking male hormones while competing in HS or the NCAA is banned so why does Beggs get to cheat? Because the cheating is for another reason than other cheating?
I remember looking at some of the East German "women" and wondering, what the heck is that?



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Re: Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

Post by CatBot » Wed May 12, 2021 6:58 pm

RickRund wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 6:52 pm
PapaG wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 3:21 pm
Rich K wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:36 pm
onceacat wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:19 pm
Rich K wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:05 pm
Mark Beggs is a woman that wrestles against other women. Mark Beggs should be disqualified from wrestling because of the substances she is using in an attempt to change her body features that allow her to seem more man-like. These alterations would be advantageous in combat type sports such as wrestling.
Miss Beggs needs to make a decision. Does she wrestle women or continue with her so-called transition?
I'd respectfully suggest that you learn peoples names before you try to make comments. That said...

MACK Beggs is following the rules set out in HB112. If you don't like those rules, you ought to be pissed as hell that Greg G signed this bill into law. He tried to be allowed to wrestle men, but because Texas follows the rules you are supporting, he can't.

Cry me a river of your alligator tears about "protecting womens sports".

If you don't like the rules that forced him to compete against girls, you should have been up in Helena testifying against HB112 in order to make sure that this crap never comes to Montana. No real surprise considering that outsiders have been bringing this culture war crap up here for some time now.
Sorry about the Mark thing, I never should have relied upon you to get that part right since the rest of your reasoning is so far off.
You don't seem to get it. NOBODY is forcing Mack to wrestle anybody. She probably ought to be disqualified from wrestling men or women because of the transformational drugs and treatments.
I remember when the Soviet Bloc and East Germany were pumping testosterone and anabolic steroids in their female athletes and it was banned if they got caught. Now, they would just be “transitioning” and it’s perfect!

As for the wrestler, taking male hormones while competing in HS or the NCAA is banned so why does Beggs get to cheat? Because the cheating is for another reason than other cheating?
I remember looking at some of the East German "women" and wondering, what the heck is that?
Did they look like this?

Image



lutecat
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Re: Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

Post by lutecat » Wed May 12, 2021 7:19 pm

PortlandCat90 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 10:50 am
KittieKop wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 8:47 am
onceacat wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 9:27 pm
grizzh8r wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 8:13 pm
The Butcher wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 4:00 pm
catsrback76 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 8:00 am
onceacat wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 8:50 pm
Mark Beggs is a man forced to wrestle in girls wrestling. 2x State Champ in Texas because they made him wrestle against girls-he didn't lose a match in 2 seasons... HB 112 is an attempt to make Montana repeat the same problem Texas created. So, if you are working in good faith to "protect" womens sports, it seems like the #1 place to start would be to not pass a bill that requires trans men to compete against women.

Just as a starting point.

In regards to the tiny % of people who don't fit neatly in the binary...isn't that the entire point of HB112? To make a blanket rule to force those who don't fit neatly in the binary to, well, ummmm, "fit" into the binary? According to most estimates, its about 1 in 1000 babies that fall into that category.

There are about 30,000 students that participate in MHSA sanctioned sports every year...and we've had a problem with how many? I'm not sure exactly if the number is zero, or it might be nada, zip, zilch, negatory, nil, the null set. Never ever once been a problem.

I'm a person who believes in personal freedom. So if the government is going to start restricting personal liberty, the gubbmint damn well better have a damn good justification to do so. Since there's NEVER been a problem with this in Montana high school sports history, it really makes me question if there needs to be a law at all.

Now, I'll concede that there is ONE example of an NCAA athlete who transitioned from male to female having ONE good meet (she wasn't even the fastest runner on her team...). So, as a person who believes in personal liberty and who is worried about government intrusion on our basic rights, I'd like to see any potential problems addressed in the least restrictive way possible.

I think the NCAA policy certainly APPEARS to be reasonable. Its certainly more thoughtful, well researched, and carefully considered than HB 112.

So, to circle back to your question: I'd want to hear what the medical professionals say. I'm not entirely sure what can be tested and/or proved. And I'd want to hear a clearly articulated reason why your proposal is better than the NCAAs rule which has been spectacularly successful in preventing abuse of the system.

Let me know why your proposal is better than the NCAAs & I'll keep an open mind.
I agree. The Governor has denied the "no big government" mandate of every Republican by signing a bill that is LOOKING for a problem to solve. There is simply NO problem here regardless of your position on the matter.

This is pure politics plain and simple. The saying, "straining at the nat but swallowing the camel" has just been demonstrated in Montana!
I think I made that point on the 3rd page of the thread! :lol:

I am very curious how grown men are so worried about this nonissue. It probably can be traced back to some traumatic event that happened to them in high school. :lol:
Many of these grown men have high school daughters (or maybe younger) in sports and don't want them to get screwed out of opportunities by confused boys - in need of psychiatric help - masquerading as girls simply because society has normalized bottom surgery and hormone therapy. Not to mention that "progressive" educators continue to press the attack on young, impressionable minds, further confusing and manipulating kids. Why people can't wake up and recognize that this is a mental health issue and not a physiological one baffles me.
I'm still curious why not a single female high school athlete made public comment on the bill, but hundreds opposed it...If its all about girls sports and all.
Because as this thread has proven, you're not allowed to have a contrary opinion on certain social matters - like this one - without being branded a racist, a homophobe, a transphobe, a Nazi, a.......you're not allowed a dissenting opinion without supposedly being a hateful bigot. Not everyone wants to throw themselves into that. I don't blame them.
I have a freshman daughter playing high school and club volleyball, as well as track. I don't want her to compete against a boy when it counts (great for practice, bad for gametime) or possibly one of the girls who have worked so hard to lose their spot on their team due to this. This has the possibility of setting women's rights backwards if it gets approved and out of control. It's a common fact that boys are physically stronger and more athletically overall than the same aged girls. To also grant them access to the same locker room and bathroom...it's really not that hard to figure out.

Nobody "forced" Mack Beggs to wrestle. He/she/they could have said "I have 3 years of pumping steroids into my body that gives me an unfair advantage on Chelsea Sanchez and every other young lady that I face." His birth mother even disagreed with his stance.
So you don't want your daughter to complete against someone who's transitioned. How does she feel?



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Re: Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

Post by Cataholic » Wed May 12, 2021 10:54 pm

BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 2:38 pm
iaafan wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 2:12 pm
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:29 pm
I'm starting to think @iaafan is onto something. No separate but equal, no segregation or different classes. No affirmative action or interview standards.

Hire whomever you want, participate in whatever you want. No one gets special treatment, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion. Best person gets to play or gets hired.

If the NFL is only a bunch of old white guys coaching they were the best people for the job!

If Harvard only brings in the wealthiest of the wealthy good on them!

If Apple only want to hire Chinese 18 year olds to run their tech department and bring them in, awesome!

If a landscaping company doesn't want to pay taxes and only wants to pay illegal immigrants in cash, lets do it!

If that girl can't triple jump 85 feet then just grab some roids and sack up!

60 year old hispanic woman at Walmart that has a few years left until she retires? Can her, bring in the dump truck fire of a meth head thats only 19 for less money!


....this is revolutionary.
Are you sure I said that?
From @iaafan I'm not sure completely sure why they separate girls and boys sports. I sure it's partly to get greater participation. Girls wanted to be able to participate, so maybe they just made a separate classification for them rather than have them go out for the boys teams. Schools could make more divisions in order to allow as many people to participate as wanted. Your basketball example is a good one. I think more should be done to get more participation in basketball. Most high school teams only have 3-5 seniors participating. There are more kids playing frosh, soph and JV games than there are varsity games. Not that it matters, but I know girls that are better basketball players than boys and I've seen girls teams beat boys teams. I think all high school basketball should be varsity and if you happen to have ten teams in one high school, so be it. If you want to have unisex tryouts, I'm for that too. Sure the top team might be all boys, the top 3-4 teams might be all boys, then some would be mixed and some would be all girls, but all the teams would get a post-season tourney and be able to try to win a championship. I think that would be awesome personally. :D

I'm agreeing you with man! Let's get rid of all the stigmas and separation. One people, one division, we are ONE! No more class C or class AA, no more male/female. If you want to play bball in high school figure out how to dunk, even if that means doing a little bit o' coke in the bathroom to get that extra umpf, or you can be on varsity squad 9 with Billy Bob the mullet'ed 45 year old that has an extra year of eligibility and only 3 fingers on his shootin' hand due to that firework snafu back in '04. I guess technically we should just have a team of whoever wants to participate and everyone gets equal playing time, probably sub every 2-3 seconds which will make the game a bit tough to watch, but in reality it doesn't matter much, so its probably ok. I actually find it a little weird now that we are basing it on performance, that seems to be an unfair classification.


......Plus women get to vote, isn't that enough for them? 8-[ :coffee:


I might be paraphrasing slightly, but I think we can both agree on the major points here. \:D/ Teamwork makes the "one people" dream work!
The crazy thing is that iaa is not joking. This is all part of his utopian liberal world where facts don’t count. Just reading his last couple of posts left me feeling like I entered the Twilight Zone. For example, his comment “why do they separate boys and girls teams”? I won’t even try to dissect that nonsense. If anything has been made clear by his recent posts, he will say anything to push his far left liberal agenda.



PortlandCat90
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Posts: 107
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Re: Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

Post by PortlandCat90 » Thu May 13, 2021 8:02 am

lutecat wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 7:19 pm
PortlandCat90 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 10:50 am
KittieKop wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 8:47 am
onceacat wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 9:27 pm
grizzh8r wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 8:13 pm
The Butcher wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 4:00 pm
catsrback76 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 8:00 am
onceacat wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 8:50 pm
Mark Beggs is a man forced to wrestle in girls wrestling. 2x State Champ in Texas because they made him wrestle against girls-he didn't lose a match in 2 seasons... HB 112 is an attempt to make Montana repeat the same problem Texas created. So, if you are working in good faith to "protect" womens sports, it seems like the #1 place to start would be to not pass a bill that requires trans men to compete against women.

Just as a starting point.

In regards to the tiny % of people who don't fit neatly in the binary...isn't that the entire point of HB112? To make a blanket rule to force those who don't fit neatly in the binary to, well, ummmm, "fit" into the binary? According to most estimates, its about 1 in 1000 babies that fall into that category.

There are about 30,000 students that participate in MHSA sanctioned sports every year...and we've had a problem with how many? I'm not sure exactly if the number is zero, or it might be nada, zip, zilch, negatory, nil, the null set. Never ever once been a problem.

I'm a person who believes in personal freedom. So if the government is going to start restricting personal liberty, the gubbmint damn well better have a damn good justification to do so. Since there's NEVER been a problem with this in Montana high school sports history, it really makes me question if there needs to be a law at all.

Now, I'll concede that there is ONE example of an NCAA athlete who transitioned from male to female having ONE good meet (she wasn't even the fastest runner on her team...). So, as a person who believes in personal liberty and who is worried about government intrusion on our basic rights, I'd like to see any potential problems addressed in the least restrictive way possible.

I think the NCAA policy certainly APPEARS to be reasonable. Its certainly more thoughtful, well researched, and carefully considered than HB 112.

So, to circle back to your question: I'd want to hear what the medical professionals say. I'm not entirely sure what can be tested and/or proved. And I'd want to hear a clearly articulated reason why your proposal is better than the NCAAs rule which has been spectacularly successful in preventing abuse of the system.

Let me know why your proposal is better than the NCAAs & I'll keep an open mind.
I agree. The Governor has denied the "no big government" mandate of every Republican by signing a bill that is LOOKING for a problem to solve. There is simply NO problem here regardless of your position on the matter.

This is pure politics plain and simple. The saying, "straining at the nat but swallowing the camel" has just been demonstrated in Montana!
I think I made that point on the 3rd page of the thread! :lol:

I am very curious how grown men are so worried about this nonissue. It probably can be traced back to some traumatic event that happened to them in high school. :lol:
Many of these grown men have high school daughters (or maybe younger) in sports and don't want them to get screwed out of opportunities by confused boys - in need of psychiatric help - masquerading as girls simply because society has normalized bottom surgery and hormone therapy. Not to mention that "progressive" educators continue to press the attack on young, impressionable minds, further confusing and manipulating kids. Why people can't wake up and recognize that this is a mental health issue and not a physiological one baffles me.
I'm still curious why not a single female high school athlete made public comment on the bill, but hundreds opposed it...If its all about girls sports and all.
Because as this thread has proven, you're not allowed to have a contrary opinion on certain social matters - like this one - without being branded a racist, a homophobe, a transphobe, a Nazi, a.......you're not allowed a dissenting opinion without supposedly being a hateful bigot. Not everyone wants to throw themselves into that. I don't blame them.
I have a freshman daughter playing high school and club volleyball, as well as track. I don't want her to compete against a boy when it counts (great for practice, bad for gametime) or possibly one of the girls who have worked so hard to lose their spot on their team due to this. This has the possibility of setting women's rights backwards if it gets approved and out of control. It's a common fact that boys are physically stronger and more athletically overall than the same aged girls. To also grant them access to the same locker room and bathroom...it's really not that hard to figure out.

Nobody "forced" Mack Beggs to wrestle. He/she/they could have said "I have 3 years of pumping steroids into my body that gives me an unfair advantage on Chelsea Sanchez and every other young lady that I face." His birth mother even disagreed with his stance.
So you don't want your daughter to complete against someone who's transitioned. How does she feel?
Great question. I assume you mean "compete". I've never actually told her that. She mentioned it at dinner awhile back that if she had to play against a boy(s) in tournaments that she would do everything to kick their a$$ but stated that it wouldn't be a fair physical match. In Club they scrimmage often against the boy's teams (4 boys vs. 6 girls) and still end up getting beat pretty badly.

As a father, I believe it's my job to give her as many tools possible to be successful in life now, and more importantly, when I'm not around. I try to not let my opinions sway her as she needs to be independent. Sports has become a huge "Life Lesson" venue for her in several areas that few other experiences in life can provide. That just can't be taught - it has to be experienced first hand and dealt with internally with help where needed.



kwcat
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Re: Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

Post by kwcat » Thu May 13, 2021 8:39 am

Cataholic wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 10:54 pm
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 2:38 pm
iaafan wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 2:12 pm
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:29 pm
I'm starting to think @iaafan is onto something. No separate but equal, no segregation or different classes. No affirmative action or interview standards.

Hire whomever you want, participate in whatever you want. No one gets special treatment, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion. Best person gets to play or gets hired.

If the NFL is only a bunch of old white guys coaching they were the best people for the job!

If Harvard only brings in the wealthiest of the wealthy good on them!

If Apple only want to hire Chinese 18 year olds to run their tech department and bring them in, awesome!

If a landscaping company doesn't want to pay taxes and only wants to pay illegal immigrants in cash, lets do it!

If that girl can't triple jump 85 feet then just grab some roids and sack up!

60 year old hispanic woman at Walmart that has a few years left until she retires? Can her, bring in the dump truck fire of a meth head thats only 19 for less money!


....this is revolutionary.
Are you sure I said that?
From @iaafan I'm not sure completely sure why they separate girls and boys sports. I sure it's partly to get greater participation. Girls wanted to be able to participate, so maybe they just made a separate classification for them rather than have them go out for the boys teams. Schools could make more divisions in order to allow as many people to participate as wanted. Your basketball example is a good one. I think more should be done to get more participation in basketball. Most high school teams only have 3-5 seniors participating. There are more kids playing frosh, soph and JV games than there are varsity games. Not that it matters, but I know girls that are better basketball players than boys and I've seen girls teams beat boys teams. I think all high school basketball should be varsity and if you happen to have ten teams in one high school, so be it. If you want to have unisex tryouts, I'm for that too. Sure the top team might be all boys, the top 3-4 teams might be all boys, then some would be mixed and some would be all girls, but all the teams would get a post-season tourney and be able to try to win a championship. I think that would be awesome personally. :D

I'm agreeing you with man! Let's get rid of all the stigmas and separation. One people, one division, we are ONE! No more class C or class AA, no more male/female. If you want to play bball in high school figure out how to dunk, even if that means doing a little bit o' coke in the bathroom to get that extra umpf, or you can be on varsity squad 9 with Billy Bob the mullet'ed 45 year old that has an extra year of eligibility and only 3 fingers on his shootin' hand due to that firework snafu back in '04. I guess technically we should just have a team of whoever wants to participate and everyone gets equal playing time, probably sub every 2-3 seconds which will make the game a bit tough to watch, but in reality it doesn't matter much, so its probably ok. I actually find it a little weird now that we are basing it on performance, that seems to be an unfair classification.


......Plus women get to vote, isn't that enough for them? 8-[ :coffee:


I might be paraphrasing slightly, but I think we can both agree on the major points here. \:D/ Teamwork makes the "one people" dream work!
The crazy thing is that iaa is not joking. This is all part of his utopian liberal world where facts don’t count. Just reading his last couple of posts left me feeling like I entered the Twilight Zone. For example, his comment “why do they separate boys and girls teams”? I won’t even try to dissect that nonsense. If anything has been made clear by his recent posts, he will say anything to push his far left liberal agenda.

[media] [/media]

Mostly, I just wanted to use the “ “function !🤔



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Re: Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

Post by grizgirl » Thu May 13, 2021 9:48 am

iaafan wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 5:12 pm
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 2:38 pm
iaafan wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 2:12 pm
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:29 pm
I'm starting to think @iaafan is onto something. No separate but equal, no segregation or different classes. No affirmative action or interview standards.

Hire whomever you want, participate in whatever you want. No one gets special treatment, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion. Best person gets to play or gets hired.

If the NFL is only a bunch of old white guys coaching they were the best people for the job!

If Harvard only brings in the wealthiest of the wealthy good on them!

If Apple only want to hire Chinese 18 year olds to run their tech department and bring them in, awesome!

If a landscaping company doesn't want to pay taxes and only wants to pay illegal immigrants in cash, lets do it!

If that girl can't triple jump 85 feet then just grab some roids and sack up!

60 year old hispanic woman at Walmart that has a few years left until she retires? Can her, bring in the dump truck fire of a meth head thats only 19 for less money!


....this is revolutionary.
Are you sure I said that?
From @iaafan I'm not sure completely sure why they separate girls and boys sports. I sure it's partly to get greater participation. Girls wanted to be able to participate, so maybe they just made a separate classification for them rather than have them go out for the boys teams. Schools could make more divisions in order to allow as many people to participate as wanted. Your basketball example is a good one. I think more should be done to get more participation in basketball. Most high school teams only have 3-5 seniors participating. There are more kids playing frosh, soph and JV games than there are varsity games. Not that it matters, but I know girls that are better basketball players than boys and I've seen girls teams beat boys teams. I think all high school basketball should be varsity and if you happen to have ten teams in one high school, so be it. If you want to have unisex tryouts, I'm for that too. Sure the top team might be all boys, the top 3-4 teams might be all boys, then some would be mixed and some would be all girls, but all the teams would get a post-season tourney and be able to try to win a championship. I think that would be awesome personally. :D

I'm agreeing you with man! Let's get rid of all the stigmas and separation. One people, one division, we are ONE! No more class C or class AA, no more male/female. If you want to play bball in high school figure out how to dunk, even if that means doing a little bit o' coke in the bathroom to get that extra umpf, or you can be on varsity squad 9 with Billy Bob the mullet'ed 45 year old that has an extra year of eligibility and only 3 fingers on his shootin' hand due to that firework snafu back in '04. I guess technically we should just have a team of whoever wants to participate and everyone gets equal playing time, probably sub every 2-3 seconds which will make the game a bit tough to watch, but in reality it doesn't matter much, so its probably ok. I actually find it a little weird now that we are basing it on performance, that seems to be an unfair classification.


......Plus women get to vote, isn't that enough for them? 8-[ :coffee:


I might be paraphrasing slightly, but I think we can both agree on the major points here. \:D/ Teamwork makes the "one people" dream work!
:lol: :lol: If you say so!!

But seriously there are a lot of kids left out of a very popular sport in high school. Football has the benefit of having 11 positions on each side of the ball. Yes, some play both ways, but there a lot more opportunity there. Some probably think this would be too cumbersome for space, but I've been to hoop tourneys where there are hundreds, maybe over a 1,000 teams playing on a weekend. They each get 4-5 games in. I just think it'd be really cool if there's, say, 104 boys/girls that want to play hoops at a AA school and you split them into teams of 8 players with the top 8 regardless of sex making up Team 1, then the next 8 are Team 2 and so on. That's 12 teams and eventually you probably have some mixed teams and them probably some teams of girls only. Then there are 12 divisions statewide and each school, depending on size puts together however many teams they can and place them in a class. AA schools would have teams in Divisions 1-12, A schools would have teams in 2-3, 4-7 and 10-12. B schools in 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 and C schools in 4, 6, 8, 10. Something like that. The co-ed teams would be especially fun/interesting to watch IMO. They all go to the corresponding tourney for their division, so you'd have some AA, A, B, C schools with teams in the same division.
I would absolutely be all for something like this. Long overdue. I can guarantee you that I was better than some of the boys out for basketball in my high school and would probably end up on a team of boys and girls. I would’ve loved it. Same for my daughter.

Also to the guy who said his daughter knew she couldn’t compete with the boys I don’t agree. My daughter’s 3v3 team has beaten multiple all boys and boy/girl teams.

It’s also worth noting that there are girls competing in football as kickers, including at Vanderbilt. It’s a slow process, but it’s happening. Look at how much girls basketball has improved in the past 20-30 years.

I believe Babe Didrikson Zaharias struck out multiple baseball players almost a century ago.



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Re: Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

Post by allcat » Thu May 13, 2021 12:09 pm

How do I block this thread. It belongs in the politics.


Now sorry for caring about Cat/griz too much. I've been properly chastised by the coach of the other team. :-^

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Re: Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

Post by BigBruceBaker » Thu May 13, 2021 12:31 pm

grizgirl wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 9:48 am
iaafan wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 5:12 pm
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 2:38 pm
iaafan wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 2:12 pm
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:29 pm
I'm starting to think @iaafan is onto something. No separate but equal, no segregation or different classes. No affirmative action or interview standards.

Hire whomever you want, participate in whatever you want. No one gets special treatment, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion. Best person gets to play or gets hired.

If the NFL is only a bunch of old white guys coaching they were the best people for the job!

If Harvard only brings in the wealthiest of the wealthy good on them!

If Apple only want to hire Chinese 18 year olds to run their tech department and bring them in, awesome!

If a landscaping company doesn't want to pay taxes and only wants to pay illegal immigrants in cash, lets do it!

If that girl can't triple jump 85 feet then just grab some roids and sack up!

60 year old hispanic woman at Walmart that has a few years left until she retires? Can her, bring in the dump truck fire of a meth head thats only 19 for less money!


....this is revolutionary.
Are you sure I said that?
From @iaafan I'm not sure completely sure why they separate girls and boys sports. I sure it's partly to get greater participation. Girls wanted to be able to participate, so maybe they just made a separate classification for them rather than have them go out for the boys teams. Schools could make more divisions in order to allow as many people to participate as wanted. Your basketball example is a good one. I think more should be done to get more participation in basketball. Most high school teams only have 3-5 seniors participating. There are more kids playing frosh, soph and JV games than there are varsity games. Not that it matters, but I know girls that are better basketball players than boys and I've seen girls teams beat boys teams. I think all high school basketball should be varsity and if you happen to have ten teams in one high school, so be it. If you want to have unisex tryouts, I'm for that too. Sure the top team might be all boys, the top 3-4 teams might be all boys, then some would be mixed and some would be all girls, but all the teams would get a post-season tourney and be able to try to win a championship. I think that would be awesome personally. :D

I'm agreeing you with man! Let's get rid of all the stigmas and separation. One people, one division, we are ONE! No more class C or class AA, no more male/female. If you want to play bball in high school figure out how to dunk, even if that means doing a little bit o' coke in the bathroom to get that extra umpf, or you can be on varsity squad 9 with Billy Bob the mullet'ed 45 year old that has an extra year of eligibility and only 3 fingers on his shootin' hand due to that firework snafu back in '04. I guess technically we should just have a team of whoever wants to participate and everyone gets equal playing time, probably sub every 2-3 seconds which will make the game a bit tough to watch, but in reality it doesn't matter much, so its probably ok. I actually find it a little weird now that we are basing it on performance, that seems to be an unfair classification.


......Plus women get to vote, isn't that enough for them? 8-[ :coffee:


I might be paraphrasing slightly, but I think we can both agree on the major points here. \:D/ Teamwork makes the "one people" dream work!
:lol: :lol: If you say so!!

But seriously there are a lot of kids left out of a very popular sport in high school. Football has the benefit of having 11 positions on each side of the ball. Yes, some play both ways, but there a lot more opportunity there. Some probably think this would be too cumbersome for space, but I've been to hoop tourneys where there are hundreds, maybe over a 1,000 teams playing on a weekend. They each get 4-5 games in. I just think it'd be really cool if there's, say, 104 boys/girls that want to play hoops at a AA school and you split them into teams of 8 players with the top 8 regardless of sex making up Team 1, then the next 8 are Team 2 and so on. That's 12 teams and eventually you probably have some mixed teams and them probably some teams of girls only. Then there are 12 divisions statewide and each school, depending on size puts together however many teams they can and place them in a class. AA schools would have teams in Divisions 1-12, A schools would have teams in 2-3, 4-7 and 10-12. B schools in 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 and C schools in 4, 6, 8, 10. Something like that. The co-ed teams would be especially fun/interesting to watch IMO. They all go to the corresponding tourney for their division, so you'd have some AA, A, B, C schools with teams in the same division.
I would absolutely be all for something like this. Long overdue. I can guarantee you that I was better than some of the boys out for basketball in my high school and would probably end up on a team of boys and girls. I would’ve loved it. Same for my daughter.

Also to the guy who said his daughter knew she couldn’t compete with the boys I don’t agree. My daughter’s 3v3 team has beaten multiple all boys and boy/girl teams.

It’s also worth noting that there are girls competing in football as kickers, including at Vanderbilt. It’s a slow process, but it’s happening. Look at how much girls basketball has improved in the past 20-30 years.

I believe Babe Didrikson Zaharias struck out multiple baseball players almost a century ago.
I agree, I'd take it a step further though and put the same structure into the college, Olympic and professional ranks as well.

I don't agree on segregating the divisions based on size of school, everyone plays together.

I'm not sure why there would be teams of all girls at the bottom of the divisions as you suggested - that doesn't seem correct. I also don't know why there would teams of just boys at the top of the division as you suggested - again that doesn't seem correct.

I think we all agree there is basically no difference between girls and boys or men and women, so why don't they all just play together? I think we should absolutely have women on the football field playing key roles like running back and qb. I think women would be a fantastic addition to the defensive lines - they are wiley and cunning!


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Re: Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

Post by tetoncat » Thu May 13, 2021 12:59 pm

I agree we should move the thread. But couple interesting comments. First were do not have girls playing football at Vanderbilt. 2 game fill in, didn't let her do all kicking duties, had make punter do most of the kicking. She filled a need they had short term due to covid and they rewarded her by letting her kick a couple short kicks. Second, if girls can compete with boys why as new sports are added like wrestling, football, lacrosse etc so they push to have their own league rather than just pushing too join the existing boys team.


Sports is not bigger than life

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Re: Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

Post by ilovethecats » Thu May 13, 2021 1:20 pm

allcat wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 12:09 pm
How do I block this thread. It belongs in the politics.
You just read the title and scroll past it.

Or you secretly read it and don't comment.

Or you comment on it and an idiot like me responds.

8)



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Re: Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

Post by wbtfg » Thu May 13, 2021 1:23 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 1:20 pm
allcat wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 12:09 pm
How do I block this thread. It belongs in the politics.
You just read the title and scroll past it.

Or you secretly read it and don't comment.

Or you comment on it and an idiot like me responds.

8)
Nailed it



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Re: Potential for no home playoffs for Cats and griz

Post by grizgirl » Thu May 13, 2021 5:18 pm

BigBruceBaker wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 12:31 pm
grizgirl wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 9:48 am
iaafan wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 5:12 pm
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 2:38 pm
iaafan wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 2:12 pm
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:29 pm
I'm starting to think @iaafan is onto something. No separate but equal, no segregation or different classes. No affirmative action or interview standards.

Hire whomever you want, participate in whatever you want. No one gets special treatment, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion. Best person gets to play or gets hired.

If the NFL is only a bunch of old white guys coaching they were the best people for the job!

If Harvard only brings in the wealthiest of the wealthy good on them!

If Apple only want to hire Chinese 18 year olds to run their tech department and bring them in, awesome!

If a landscaping company doesn't want to pay taxes and only wants to pay illegal immigrants in cash, lets do it!

If that girl can't triple jump 85 feet then just grab some roids and sack up!

60 year old hispanic woman at Walmart that has a few years left until she retires? Can her, bring in the dump truck fire of a meth head thats only 19 for less money!


....this is revolutionary.
Are you sure I said that?
From @iaafan I'm not sure completely sure why they separate girls and boys sports. I sure it's partly to get greater participation. Girls wanted to be able to participate, so maybe they just made a separate classification for them rather than have them go out for the boys teams. Schools could make more divisions in order to allow as many people to participate as wanted. Your basketball example is a good one. I think more should be done to get more participation in basketball. Most high school teams only have 3-5 seniors participating. There are more kids playing frosh, soph and JV games than there are varsity games. Not that it matters, but I know girls that are better basketball players than boys and I've seen girls teams beat boys teams. I think all high school basketball should be varsity and if you happen to have ten teams in one high school, so be it. If you want to have unisex tryouts, I'm for that too. Sure the top team might be all boys, the top 3-4 teams might be all boys, then some would be mixed and some would be all girls, but all the teams would get a post-season tourney and be able to try to win a championship. I think that would be awesome personally. :D

I'm agreeing you with man! Let's get rid of all the stigmas and separation. One people, one division, we are ONE! No more class C or class AA, no more male/female. If you want to play bball in high school figure out how to dunk, even if that means doing a little bit o' coke in the bathroom to get that extra umpf, or you can be on varsity squad 9 with Billy Bob the mullet'ed 45 year old that has an extra year of eligibility and only 3 fingers on his shootin' hand due to that firework snafu back in '04. I guess technically we should just have a team of whoever wants to participate and everyone gets equal playing time, probably sub every 2-3 seconds which will make the game a bit tough to watch, but in reality it doesn't matter much, so its probably ok. I actually find it a little weird now that we are basing it on performance, that seems to be an unfair classification.


......Plus women get to vote, isn't that enough for them? 8-[ :coffee:


I might be paraphrasing slightly, but I think we can both agree on the major points here. \:D/ Teamwork makes the "one people" dream work!
:lol: :lol: If you say so!!

But seriously there are a lot of kids left out of a very popular sport in high school. Football has the benefit of having 11 positions on each side of the ball. Yes, some play both ways, but there a lot more opportunity there. Some probably think this would be too cumbersome for space, but I've been to hoop tourneys where there are hundreds, maybe over a 1,000 teams playing on a weekend. They each get 4-5 games in. I just think it'd be really cool if there's, say, 104 boys/girls that want to play hoops at a AA school and you split them into teams of 8 players with the top 8 regardless of sex making up Team 1, then the next 8 are Team 2 and so on. That's 12 teams and eventually you probably have some mixed teams and them probably some teams of girls only. Then there are 12 divisions statewide and each school, depending on size puts together however many teams they can and place them in a class. AA schools would have teams in Divisions 1-12, A schools would have teams in 2-3, 4-7 and 10-12. B schools in 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 and C schools in 4, 6, 8, 10. Something like that. The co-ed teams would be especially fun/interesting to watch IMO. They all go to the corresponding tourney for their division, so you'd have some AA, A, B, C schools with teams in the same division.
I would absolutely be all for something like this. Long overdue. I can guarantee you that I was better than some of the boys out for basketball in my high school and would probably end up on a team of boys and girls. I would’ve loved it. Same for my daughter.

Also to the guy who said his daughter knew she couldn’t compete with the boys I don’t agree. My daughter’s 3v3 team has beaten multiple all boys and boy/girl teams.

It’s also worth noting that there are girls competing in football as kickers, including at Vanderbilt. It’s a slow process, but it’s happening. Look at how much girls basketball has improved in the past 20-30 years.

I believe Babe Didrikson Zaharias struck out multiple baseball players almost a century ago.
I agree, I'd take it a step further though and put the same structure into the college, Olympic and professional ranks as well.

I don't agree on segregating the divisions based on size of school, everyone plays together.

I'm not sure why there would be teams of all girls at the bottom of the divisions as you suggested - that doesn't seem correct. I also don't know why there would teams of just boys at the top of the division as you suggested - again that doesn't seem correct.

I think we all agree there is basically no difference between girls and boys or men and women, so why don't they all just play together? I think we should absolutely have women on the football field playing key roles like running back and qb. I think women would be a fantastic addition to the defensive lines - they are wiley and cunning!
I know you’re trying to be funny. However, I know I wouldn’t have been on the top team in my high school, which was a big AA school. And I would be able weto handle that like most people. Amazing though since I’m a woman, right? Just kidding. I think I could’ve made the third team though and it would’ve been a boys/girls team and that’s all I’ll say. I would’ve been okay wherever I was placed.

Girls would get better faster in this type of system.



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