The Bobcat Nation

Below is listed, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics, the 25 jobs that will experianced the greatest job growth in the next 10 years. Once again UM graduates have a definate advantage at cashing in on this new growth. I have highlighted typical UM Grad Jobs

1. Retail Salesperson
2. Registered Nurse
3. Postsecondary Teacher
4. Customer Service Rep
5. Janitor or Cleaner (except maids and housekeeping cleaners)
6. Waiter/Waitress
7. Combination Food Preparation and Serving Worker
8. Home Health Aide
9. Nursing Aid, Orderly, Attendant
10. General and Operations Manager
11. Personal and Home Care Aide
12. Elementary School Teacher
13. Accountant and Auditor
14. Office Clerk
15. Hand Laborer and freight, stock and material mover
16. Receptionist and Information Clerk
17. Landscaping and Groundskeeping Worker
18. Truck Driver, Heavy and Tractor Trailer
19. Computer Applications Software Engineer
20. Maintenance and Repair Worker
21. Medical Assistant
22. Executive Secretary and Administrative Assistant
23. Sales Representative, Wholesale and Manufacturing
24. Carpenter
25. Teacher Assistant

What makes this even more impresive is if you add 25-30 they also pick-up McDonalds French-Fry cook, Walmart Greeter, profesional band wagon jumper, snow board waxer and Naturalpathic tree farming.

Boy they are killing us!!!!!!!

Be all you can be at uM.

I would agree except for #12, #13, and #17- our programs in each of these areas out perform theirs.

Obsession noted.

suckitgriz wrote:I would agree except for #12, #13, and #17- our programs in each of these areas out perform theirs.

Since when? In any event, Phyllis Washington recently made a several million dollar donation to the UM education department which should help. Perhaps if any MSU graduates (or their spouses) ever make any money they can make a like donation to their alma mater?

BR GRIZ wrote:

suckitgriz wrote:I would agree except for #12, #13, and #17- our programs in each of these areas out perform theirs.

Since when? In any event, Phyllis Washington recently made a several million dollar donation to the UM education department which should help. Perhaps if any MSU graduates (or their spouses) ever make any money they can make a like donation to their alma mater?

I think it would be more appropriate to say "marry" money

Cat-I don't believe you realise what a success story the Washington's have. Mrs. Washington supported the family on her teacher's salary while Dennis was starting out. She did not marry money; I submit that she was just as much a part of the Washington's success as Dennis was. See what an education from UM can do for you?

Let's just settle this once and for all. There is no such thing as a "better" Elementary Ed program. You can get a perfectly adequate El Ed degree from virtually any 4 year college in the country. The subject matter simply is not difficult, and the degree is largely a formality. When it comes to El Ed, you generally have it or you don't on a personal level. A degree from Harvard won't mold you into a great El Ed teacher, and getting a degree from Northern Montana College won't hinder you in the slightest from becoming a great elementary teacher.

Let's put this into perspective -- the job requirements are that you know more about the subject matter than a elementary school student (something most of us acquire by the time we reach 7th grade), and you are able to explain things in a way that they can understand. College doesn't prepare you for this -- being able to relate well to kids prepares you for this.

So all El Ed programs are great ... and all are bad, 100% dependent on the person in the program and the student teaching experience you receive.

And yes, lots of teachers in my family.

So if any school wants to brag about the superior merits of their El Ed program (including MSU), allow me to scoff in your general direction.

suckitgriz wrote:I would agree except for #12, #13, and #17- our programs in each of these areas out perform theirs.

17. Landscaping and Groundskeeping Worker

Is lawnmowing an actual major at MSU? That's awesome!! Is there a thesis requirement?

--GL

Grizlaw wrote:

suckitgriz wrote:I would agree except for #12, #13, and #17- our programs in each of these areas out perform theirs.

17. Landscaping and Groundskeeping Worker

Is lawnmowing an actual major at MSU? That's awesome!! Is there a thesis requirement?

--GL

I think anything Grass is attached to UM

catamaran wrote:

Grizlaw wrote:

suckitgriz wrote:I would agree except for #12, #13, and #17- our programs in each of these areas out perform theirs.

17. Landscaping and Groundskeeping Worker

Is lawnmowing an actual major at MSU? That's awesome!! Is there a thesis requirement?

--GL

I think anything Grass is attached to UM

Granted, but it was an MSU grad who was touting the superiority of his school's lawnmowing program over UM's...

MSU actually has a very successfull Landscape Design Major

suckitgriz wrote:MSU actually has a very successfull Landscape Design Major

That's juco shi t

suckitgriz wrote:MSU actually has a very successfull Landscape Design Major

I don't doubt that they do...

I could go on a long rant about this, but it's about 7:30 pm on the east coast and I've got about six hours of work to do before I can go home tonight, so I'm not going to. To summarize though, I would point at this as an example of the difference between education and job training.

Here's a question for discussion (which will probably start a war, but I'm curious to see where this goes). Let's compare two hypothetical students: one majors in Landscape Design at MSU, and the other majors in Philosophy at UM (I'm choosing philosophy because I took a lot of philosophy courses as electives in undergrad, and they work well for the argument I'm going to make; you can substitute a different liberal arts major if you prefer). Clearly, the Landscape Design student is getting better job training, since a philosophy degree really only prepares you for grad school or a career at Starbucks. Here's my question, though: which one is getting the better education (recognizing that education does not always equal job options)?

I believe the philosophy student is, but I'm going to wait to state my reasons until a few people have reamed me for having this opinion (and until I have a little more leisure time).

--GL

Grizlaw wrote:

suckitgriz wrote:MSU actually has a very successfull Landscape Design Major

I don't doubt that they do...

I could go on a long rant about this, but it's about 7:30 pm on the east coast and I've got about six hours of work to do before I can go home tonight, so I'm not going to. To summarize though, I would point at this as an example of the difference between education and job training.

Here's a question for discussion (which will probably start a war, but I'm curious to see where this goes). Let's compare two hypothetical students: one majors in Landscape Design at MSU, and the other majors in Philosophy at UM (I'm choosing philosophy because I took a lot of philosophy courses as electives in undergrad, and they work well for the argument I'm going to make; you can substitute a different liberal arts major if you prefer). Clearly, the Landscape Design student is getting better job training, since a philosophy degree really only prepares you for grad school or a career at Starbucks. Here's my question, though: which one is getting the better education (recognizing that education does not always equal job options)?

I believe the philosophy student is, but I'm going to wait to state my reasons until a few people have reamed me for having this opinion (and until I have a little more leisure time).

--GL

So is graphic design and Architecture "job training"

Ponycat wrote:So is graphic design and Architecture "job training"

I don't know anything about graphic design. Architecture, I know, requires a fair amount of higher level mathematics, which moves it clearly into the realm of "education."

I'm not knocking any particular major here, btw (including Landscape Design, despite my joking references to it as "lawn mowing"). The point I'm intending to make goes more to the value of a liberal arts education (which is the primary knock that MSU grads have about UM) than to the lack of value of any other degree.

UMclassof2002 wrote:

suckitgriz wrote:MSU actually has a very successfull Landscape Design Major

That's juco shi t

Once again you are wrong.

MSU provides the necessary 4 year education requirement needed, in addition to passing a national exam, to apply for registration in the State of Montana (and most other states) as a licensed "Landscape Architect".

While there are undoubtedly a few dUMb grads able to obtain a hi-tech summer job such as installing sprinkler systems ( let's get beyond mowing, raking, trimming, etc.), "Landscape Architects" are professionals, make a damn good living, and are relied upon by those of in the land development design professions.

Now, back to your burger flippin' career goals. Don't restrict your goals to just Mickey D's- keep your options open and submit a resume to Booger K, Hardlies, etc.

GOKATS wrote:

UMclassof2002 wrote:

suckitgriz wrote:MSU actually has a very successfull Landscape Design Major

That's juco shi t

Once again you are wrong.

MSU provides the necessary 4 year education requirement needed, in addition to passing a national exam, to apply for registration in the State of Montana (and most other states) as a licensed "Landscape Architect".

While there are undoubtedly a few dUMb grads able to obtain a hi-tech summer job such as installing sprinkler systems ( let's get beyond mowing, raking, trimming, etc.), "Landscape Architects" are professionals, make a damn good living, and are relied upon by those of in the land development design professions.

Now, back to your burger flippin' career goals. Don't restrict your goals to just Mickey D's- keep your options open and submit a resume to Booger K, Hardlies, etc.

Less typing, more mowing my lawn

UMclassof2002 wrote:

GOKATS wrote:

UMclassof2002 wrote:

suckitgriz wrote:MSU actually has a very successfull Landscape Design Major

That's juco shi t

Once again you are wrong.

MSU provides the necessary 4 year education requirement needed, in addition to passing a national exam, to apply for registration in the State of Montana (and most other states) as a licensed "Landscape Architect".

While there are undoubtedly a few dUMb grads able to obtain a hi-tech summer job such as installing sprinkler systems ( let's get beyond mowing, raking, trimming, etc.), "Landscape Architects" are professionals, make a damn good living, and are relied upon by those of in the land development design professions.

Now, back to your burger flippin' career goals. Don't restrict your goals to just Mickey D's- keep your options open and submit a resume to Booger K, Hardlies, etc.

Less typing, more mowing my lawn

Sing, "Mowing, in the rain".

GOKATS wrote:MSU provides the necessary 4 year education requirement needed, in addition to passing a national exam, to apply for registration in the State of Montana (and most other states) as a licensed "Landscape Architect".

While there are undoubtedly a few dUMb grads able to obtain a hi-tech summer job such as installing sprinkler systems ( let's get beyond mowing, raking, trimming, etc.), "Landscape Architects" are professionals, make a damn good living, and are relied upon by those of in the land development design professions.

Now, back to your burger flippin' career goals. Don't restrict your goals to just Mickey D's- keep your options open and submit a resume to Booger K, Hardlies, etc.

I am glad to hear that MSU's landscape design grads can make a nice living. There is obviously some value in that. Here's a question, though: can they also read something written by, e.g., Al Franken or Ann Coulter, think critically about what they're reading, and intelligently explain the biases in what they're reading? Any humanities student could to do so, and yet, I suspect that many people who studied "better" (more lucrative) things in school cannot.

Which brings me back to the question I was trying to raise earlier: how does one measure the value of an education? The people on this board always seem to speak in terms of the job opportunities that a particular academic discipline will open up to a person, but does that really make any sense?

Let me use myself as an example: when I was an undergrad, I majored in accounting, and (because I was preparing for law school), I took a lot of philosophy and other humanities courses as electives. In my accounting classes, I learned how to read financial statements, how to conduct an audit, how to make financial book entries, etc. In other words, I learned a lot of useful job skills, at least if one is pursuing a career in accounting.

In my philosophy courses, I learned how to read and comprehend complicated material, how to write well, how to think critically, and how to analyze and construct a cogent argument.

Guess which set of skills has proven to be more useful in my current profession (and in my life)? I am a tax lawyer, so surely I do use my accounting knowledge to a degree. I could get by without it, though, and the same could not be said for the intangible skills that I learned in my "soft" liberal arts classes.

So I'll ask the question again (slightly differently this time): who is better educated, the philosopher, or the accountant? The accountant makes more money, but is that really the question?

--GL