Griz RB arrested for DUI

[Grizaddict]

http://missoulian.com/news/local/griz-f ... 85f38.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like Counts is practicing....

So help me out Griz posters. Is this part of Stitts accountability that he demands from players?

I'm not a griz poster but I'll help. Suspension normally means game time. Still have to practice. Non issue.

I personally think he should be suspended from all activities until his verdict is in. My guess is that Stitt's hands are a bit tied as he has to wait for the due process to play out and then all is governed by the UM student code of conduct. I did read that if found guilty of DUI he will be suspended for the season. If the charge is lessened, it sounds like he will be suspended 30% of the season.

[catatac]

http://missoulian.com/news/local/griz-f ... 85f38.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like Counts is practicing....

So help me out Griz posters. Is this part of Stitts accountability that he demands from players?

I'm not a griz poster but I'll help. Suspension normally means game time. Still have to practice. Non issue.

I personally think he should be suspended from all activities until his verdict is in. My guess is that Stitt's hands are a bit tied as he has to wait for the due process to play out and then all is governed by the UM student code of conduct. I did read that if found guilty of DUI he will be suspended for the season. If the charge is lessened, it sounds like he will be suspended 30% of the season.

His hands are tied by what? Getting arrested while he's already on probation isn't against the student code of conduct?

[grizgirl]

http://missoulian.com/news/local/griz-f ... 85f38.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like Counts is practicing....

So help me out Griz posters. Is this part of Stitts accountability that he demands from players?

I'm not a griz poster but I'll help. Suspension normally means game time. Still have to practice. Non issue.

Allowing him to practice after he violated his parole looks bad and sends the wrong message. How the administrators don't recognize this is beyond me.

[Grizaddict]

http://missoulian.com/news/local/griz-f ... 85f38.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like Counts is practicing....

So help me out Griz posters. Is this part of Stitts accountability that he demands from players?

I'm not a griz poster but I'll help. Suspension normally means game time. Still have to practice. Non issue.

I personally think he should be suspended from all activities until his verdict is in. My guess is that Stitt's hands are a bit tied as he has to wait for the due process to play out and then all is governed by the UM student code of conduct. I did read that if found guilty of DUI he will be suspended for the season. If the charge is lessened, it sounds like he will be suspended 30% of the season.

His hands are tied by what? Getting arrested while he's already on probation isn't against the student code of conduct?

Tied by the fact that it's not his call. It's completely governed by the code of conduct. He will be suspended as soon as the official charge is settled, either all of the season or 30% of it. You may recall JJ just settled for 275k with the UM for the way his case was mishandled. This is exactly why the student code of conduct determines his fate, not his coach. If Stitt suspended him and then his DUI is dropped completely, Counts could come after UM and the program for damages. Not saying I agree with it but it is what it is. He is definitely in the dog house. That I can promise you.

[Bobcatsinmso]

We will all be waiting to see the photos of Mr. Counts swollen wrists from the severe slapping administered while in the said "dog house".

[Cataholic]

http://missoulian.com/news/local/griz-f ... 85f38.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like Counts is practicing....

So help me out Griz posters. Is this part of Stitts accountability that he demands from players?

I'm not a griz poster but I'll help. Suspension normally means game time. Still have to practice. Non issue.

I personally think he should be suspended from all activities until his verdict is in. My guess is that Stitt's hands are a bit tied as he has to wait for the due process to play out and then all is governed by the UM student code of conduct. I did read that if found guilty of DUI he will be suspended for the season. If the charge is lessened, it sounds like he will be suspended 30% of the season.

His hands are tied by what? Getting arrested while he's already on probation isn't against the student code of conduct?

Tied by the fact that it's not his call. It's completely governed by the code of conduct. He will be suspended as soon as the official charge is settled, either all of the season or 30% of it. You may recall JJ just settled for 275k with the UM for the way his case was mishandled. This is exactly why the student code of conduct determines his fate, not his coach. If Stitt suspended him and then his DUI is dropped completely, Counts could come after UM and the program for damages. Not saying I agree with it but it is what it is. He is definitely in the dog house. That I can promise you.

I can't agree with your interpretation of the code. I would be surprised that a violation of the student code must be defined as an conviction. Grizgirl said it best, shouldn't an arrest while on probation constitute a violation? Heck, he could have walked into a bar and violated his probation. No arrest in that scenario, but an infraction of the code. At a minimum, it is hard to say Stitt holds his players accountable by not making some kind of public statement.

For those saying Stitt must wait for a conviction/verdict before implementing a suspension, I just can not agree. What if Counts is able to delay a court proceeding till the season is over? Should he be allowed to play that whole time? No way.

As for the JJ situation, there was a lot of other things that led to that settlement. I don't think the code of conduct was implemented to prevent another JJ type settlement.

[Grizaddict]

http://missoulian.com/news/local/griz-f ... 85f38.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like Counts is practicing....

So help me out Griz posters. Is this part of Stitts accountability that he demands from players?

I'm not a griz poster but I'll help. Suspension normally means game time. Still have to practice. Non issue.

I personally think he should be suspended from all activities until his verdict is in. My guess is that Stitt's hands are a bit tied as he has to wait for the due process to play out and then all is governed by the UM student code of conduct. I did read that if found guilty of DUI he will be suspended for the season. If the charge is lessened, it sounds like he will be suspended 30% of the season.

His hands are tied by what? Getting arrested while he's already on probation isn't against the student code of conduct?

Tied by the fact that it's not his call. It's completely governed by the code of conduct. He will be suspended as soon as the official charge is settled, either all of the season or 30% of it. You may recall JJ just settled for 275k with the UM for the way his case was mishandled. This is exactly why the student code of conduct determines his fate, not his coach. If Stitt suspended him and then his DUI is dropped completely, Counts could come after UM and the program for damages. Not saying I agree with it but it is what it is. He is definitely in the dog house. That I can promise you.

I can't agree with your interpretation of the code. I would be surprised that a violation of the student code must be defined as an conviction. Grizgirl said it best, shouldn't an arrest while on probation constitute a violation? Heck, he could have walked into a bar and violated his probation. No arrest in that scenario, but an infraction of the code. At a minimum, it is hard to say Stitt holds his players accountable by not making some kind of public statement.

For those saying Stitt must wait for a conviction/verdict before implementing a suspension, I just can not agree. What if Counts is able to delay a court proceeding till the season is over? Should he be allowed to play that whole time? No way.

As for the JJ situation, there was a lot of other things that led to that settlement. I don't think the code of conduct was implemented to prevent another JJ type settlement.

You don't have to agree with my interpretation. Here is the article directly from the newspaper with specifics:



'The Missoula County Attorney’s Office filed a petition to revoke Counts’ deferred sentence Friday afternoon, saying he failed to abide by the no-alcohol condition and didn't follow the laws during his deferral period.

The student-athlete code of conduct states that violating a term of probation or other condition imposed by a court in a criminal proceeding is a Category II violation. A second Category II violation is punishable by suspension of 30 percent of all games.

If Counts is convicted of a misdemeanor DUI, it would be his third Category II violation of the conduct code, which calls for a dismissal from the football team.

University of Montana’s Athletic Director Kent Haslam said Counts' punishment hasn't been determined.

“We’ll decide what the punishment will be based on whatever is in the student-athlete code of conduct,” Haslam said. “We just need to wait this through and see what the final results are. I don’t want to speculate right now.”



So, again, they need to allow due process to then dictate the proper punishment. If it's a DUI he will be gone. If it's a lesser charge he will sit out 30% of games. At that point there may even be stipulations that would not allow him to practice or participate in team functions.

And one other fact is the code of conduct absolutely got updated and improved after the JJ debacle so there were no gray areas. It was part of the dept of justice and ncaa imvestigation improvements along with massive improvements to how the university would handle any reported sexual assaults.

[Cataholic]

http://missoulian.com/news/local/griz-f ... 85f38.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like Counts is practicing....

So help me out Griz posters. Is this part of Stitts accountability that he demands from players?

I'm not a griz poster but I'll help. Suspension normally means game time. Still have to practice. Non issue.

I personally think he should be suspended from all activities until his verdict is in. My guess is that Stitt's hands are a bit tied as he has to wait for the due process to play out and then all is governed by the UM student code of conduct. I did read that if found guilty of DUI he will be suspended for the season. If the charge is lessened, it sounds like he will be suspended 30% of the season.

His hands are tied by what? Getting arrested while he's already on probation isn't against the student code of conduct?

Tied by the fact that it's not his call. It's completely governed by the code of conduct. He will be suspended as soon as the official charge is settled, either all of the season or 30% of it. You may recall JJ just settled for 275k with the UM for the way his case was mishandled. This is exactly why the student code of conduct determines his fate, not his coach. If Stitt suspended him and then his DUI is dropped completely, Counts could come after UM and the program for damages. Not saying I agree with it but it is what it is. He is definitely in the dog house. That I can promise you.

I can't agree with your interpretation of the code. I would be surprised that a violation of the student code must be defined as an conviction. Grizgirl said it best, shouldn't an arrest while on probation constitute a violation? Heck, he could have walked into a bar and violated his probation. No arrest in that scenario, but an infraction of the code. At a minimum, it is hard to say Stitt holds his players accountable by not making some kind of public statement.

For those saying Stitt must wait for a conviction/verdict before implementing a suspension, I just can not agree. What if Counts is able to delay a court proceeding till the season is over? Should he be allowed to play that whole time? No way.

As for the JJ situation, there was a lot of other things that led to that settlement. I don't think the code of conduct was implemented to prevent another JJ type settlement.

You don't have to agree with my interpretation. Here is the article directly from the newspaper with specifics:



'The Missoula County Attorney’s Office filed a petition to revoke Counts’ deferred sentence Friday afternoon, saying he failed to abide by the no-alcohol condition and didn't follow the laws during his deferral period.

The student-athlete code of conduct states that violating a term of probation or other condition imposed by a court in a criminal proceeding is a Category II violation. A second Category II violation is punishable by suspension of 30 percent of all games.

If Counts is convicted of a misdemeanor DUI, it would be his third Category II violation of the conduct code, which calls for a dismissal from the football team.

University of Montana’s Athletic Director Kent Haslam said Counts' punishment hasn't been determined.

“We’ll decide what the punishment will be based on whatever is in the student-athlete code of conduct,” Haslam said. “We just need to wait this through and see what the final results are. I don’t want to speculate right now.”



So, again, they need to allow due process to then dictate the proper punishment. If it's a DUI he will be gone. If it's a lesser charge he will sit out 30% of games. At that point there may even be stipulations that would not allow him to practice or participate in team functions.

And one other fact is the code of conduct absolutely got updated and improved after the JJ debacle so there were no gray areas. It was part of the dept of justice and ncaa imvestigation improvements along with massive improvements to how the university would handle any reported sexual assaults.

You are doing an admirable job of defending your program, but I don't think your argument holds water. The Cats suspended both Tappan and Daly right away after charges were filed. Apparently we don't have the same concern of getting sued as the Griz. Also, recents actions of the Griz in the past year don't follow your reasoning. In Counts first infraction in the burglary case, all the players were suspended from ALL TEAM ACTIVITIES as soon as charges were filed against them. Following is the article:

http://billingsgazette.com/sports/colle ... 0f23e.html

It seems Stitt is looking the other way on this one. Interestingly enough, during the Gamboa arrest where he was suspended, Stitt was quoted from an earlier interview after being hired that there is no gray area when it comes to student conduct. Apparently the doesn't apply to a senior who is expected to contribute this year. I would be upset if Choate did not take action right away.

[91catAlum]

http://missoulian.com/news/local/griz-f ... 85f38.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like Counts is practicing....

So help me out Griz posters. Is this part of Stitts accountability that he demands from players?

I'm not a griz poster but I'll help. Suspension normally means game time. Still have to practice. Non issue.

I personally think he should be suspended from all activities until his verdict is in. My guess is that Stitt's hands are a bit tied as he has to wait for the due process to play out and then all is governed by the UM student code of conduct. I did read that if found guilty of DUI he will be suspended for the season. If the charge is lessened, it sounds like he will be suspended 30% of the season.

His hands are tied by what? Getting arrested while he's already on probation isn't against the student code of conduct?

Tied by the fact that it's not his call. It's completely governed by the code of conduct. He will be suspended as soon as the official charge is settled, either all of the season or 30% of it. You may recall JJ just settled for 275k with the UM for the way his case was mishandled. This is exactly why the student code of conduct determines his fate, not his coach. If Stitt suspended him and then his DUI is dropped completely, Counts could come after UM and the program for damages. Not saying I agree with it but it is what it is. He is definitely in the dog house. That I can promise you.

I can't agree with your interpretation of the code. I would be surprised that a violation of the student code must be defined as an conviction. Grizgirl said it best, shouldn't an arrest while on probation constitute a violation? Heck, he could have walked into a bar and violated his probation. No arrest in that scenario, but an infraction of the code. At a minimum, it is hard to say Stitt holds his players accountable by not making some kind of public statement.

For those saying Stitt must wait for a conviction/verdict before implementing a suspension, I just can not agree. What if Counts is able to delay a court proceeding till the season is over? Should he be allowed to play that whole time? No way.

As for the JJ situation, there was a lot of other things that led to that settlement. I don't think the code of conduct was implemented to prevent another JJ type settlement.

You don't have to agree with my interpretation. Here is the article directly from the newspaper with specifics:



'The Missoula County Attorney’s Office filed a petition to revoke Counts’ deferred sentence Friday afternoon, saying he failed to abide by the no-alcohol condition and didn't follow the laws during his deferral period.

The student-athlete code of conduct states that violating a term of probation or other condition imposed by a court in a criminal proceeding is a Category II violation. A second Category II violation is punishable by suspension of 30 percent of all games.

If Counts is convicted of a misdemeanor DUI, it would be his third Category II violation of the conduct code, which calls for a dismissal from the football team.

University of Montana’s Athletic Director Kent Haslam said Counts' punishment hasn't been determined.

“We’ll decide what the punishment will be based on whatever is in the student-athlete code of conduct,” Haslam said. “We just need to wait this through and see what the final results are. I don’t want to speculate right now.”



So, again, they need to allow due process to then dictate the proper punishment. If it's a DUI he will be gone. If it's a lesser charge he will sit out 30% of games. At that point there may even be stipulations that would not allow him to practice or participate in team functions.

And one other fact is the code of conduct absolutely got updated and improved after the JJ debacle so there were no gray areas. It was part of the dept of justice and ncaa imvestigation improvements along with massive improvements to how the university would handle any reported sexual assaults.

You are doing an admirable job of defending your program, but I don't think your argument holds water. The Cats suspended both Tappan and Daly right away after charges were filed. Apparently we don't have the same concern of getting sued as the Griz. Also, recents actions of the Griz in the past year don't follow your reasoning. In Counts first infraction in the burglary case, all the players were suspended from ALL TEAM ACTIVITIES as soon as charges were filed against them. Following is the article:

http://billingsgazette.com/sports/colle ... 0f23e.html

It seems Stitt is looking the other way on this one. Interestingly enough, during the Gamboa arrest where he was suspended, Stitt was quoted from an earlier interview after being hired that there is no gray area when it comes to student conduct. Apparently the doesn't apply to a senior who is expected to contribute this year. I would be upset if Choate did not take action right away.

Good point. Luke Daly pled not guilty, but he's still suspended pending his court outcome. Counts pled not guilty, and is practicing with the team until his court outcome.
That speaks for itself.

[Grizaddict]

http://missoulian.com/news/local/griz-f ... 85f38.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like Counts is practicing....

So help me out Griz posters. Is this part of Stitts accountability that he demands from players?

I'm not a griz poster but I'll help. Suspension normally means game time. Still have to practice. Non issue.

I personally think he should be suspended from all activities until his verdict is in. My guess is that Stitt's hands are a bit tied as he has to wait for the due process to play out and then all is governed by the UM student code of conduct. I did read that if found guilty of DUI he will be suspended for the season. If the charge is lessened, it sounds like he will be suspended 30% of the season.

His hands are tied by what? Getting arrested while he's already on probation isn't against the student code of conduct?

Tied by the fact that it's not his call. It's completely governed by the code of conduct. He will be suspended as soon as the official charge is settled, either all of the season or 30% of it. You may recall JJ just settled for 275k with the UM for the way his case was mishandled. This is exactly why the student code of conduct determines his fate, not his coach. If Stitt suspended him and then his DUI is dropped completely, Counts could come after UM and the program for damages. Not saying I agree with it but it is what it is. He is definitely in the dog house. That I can promise you.

I can't agree with your interpretation of the code. I would be surprised that a violation of the student code must be defined as an conviction. Grizgirl said it best, shouldn't an arrest while on probation constitute a violation? Heck, he could have walked into a bar and violated his probation. No arrest in that scenario, but an infraction of the code. At a minimum, it is hard to say Stitt holds his players accountable by not making some kind of public statement.

For those saying Stitt must wait for a conviction/verdict before implementing a suspension, I just can not agree. What if Counts is able to delay a court proceeding till the season is over? Should he be allowed to play that whole time? No way.

As for the JJ situation, there was a lot of other things that led to that settlement. I don't think the code of conduct was implemented to prevent another JJ type settlement.

You don't have to agree with my interpretation. Here is the article directly from the newspaper with specifics:



'The Missoula County Attorney’s Office filed a petition to revoke Counts’ deferred sentence Friday afternoon, saying he failed to abide by the no-alcohol condition and didn't follow the laws during his deferral period.

The student-athlete code of conduct states that violating a term of probation or other condition imposed by a court in a criminal proceeding is a Category II violation. A second Category II violation is punishable by suspension of 30 percent of all games.

If Counts is convicted of a misdemeanor DUI, it would be his third Category II violation of the conduct code, which calls for a dismissal from the football team.

University of Montana’s Athletic Director Kent Haslam said Counts' punishment hasn't been determined.

“We’ll decide what the punishment will be based on whatever is in the student-athlete code of conduct,” Haslam said. “We just need to wait this through and see what the final results are. I don’t want to speculate right now.”



So, again, they need to allow due process to then dictate the proper punishment. If it's a DUI he will be gone. If it's a lesser charge he will sit out 30% of games. At that point there may even be stipulations that would not allow him to practice or participate in team functions.

And one other fact is the code of conduct absolutely got updated and improved after the JJ debacle so there were no gray areas. It was part of the dept of justice and ncaa imvestigation improvements along with massive improvements to how the university would handle any reported sexual assaults.

You are doing an admirable job of defending your program, but I don't think your argument holds water. The Cats suspended both Tappan and Daly right away after charges were filed. Apparently we don't have the same concern of getting sued as the Griz. Also, recents actions of the Griz in the past year don't follow your reasoning. In Counts first infraction in the burglary case, all the players were suspended from ALL TEAM ACTIVITIES as soon as charges were filed against them. Following is the article:

http://billingsgazette.com/sports/colle ... 0f23e.html

It seems Stitt is looking the other way on this one. Interestingly enough, during the Gamboa arrest where he was suspended, Stitt was quoted from an earlier interview after being hired that there is no gray area when it comes to student conduct. Apparently the doesn't apply to a senior who is expected to contribute this year. I would be upset if Choate did not take action right away.

You are correct that all those players were suspended indefinitely from all team activities. But if you read that article, you will see that it was per the UM Student Code of Conduct that dictated it. In other words, they were initially arrested on FELONY charges of breaking and entering that dictate immediate suspension per the Code. Haslam is quoted right in that article that the suspension may be lifted or changed pending official charges. You may recall the charges were lessened and each of those players were suspended for that Saturday game vs ISU.

In Counts' latest incident, it is not a felony charge that would dictate immediate suspension per the Code. It's a misdemeanor DUI charge which he pled not guilty to. Again, in this case, the code dictates punishment. Since there hasn't been an official charge settled, and since it's a misdemeanor, he is not suspended indefinitely. That again is not Stitt's call. It's the code, as evidenced by Haslam's comments that I provided earlier. Once the charge is official the suspension will be served. They have taken these decisions out of the coaches' hands for a reason, so they don't end up with another crap show like the JJ debacle.

[Grizaddict]

Here, this will make it easier. This is direct from the UM Student Athlete Code of Conduct. I also provided the link at the bottom:


A. Category I Violation
A Category I violation occurs in any situation where an individual:
 Is charged with a felony and, in looking at the totality of the circumstances, it is
reasonable to believe the person committed the act (e.g., rape, sexual assault, other felony assault, felony theft, felony DUI, etc.).
o Preliminary Action: The Athletic Director or his/her designee shall take preliminary action to temporarily suspend a student-athlete from participation in practice, competition, and/or access to athletic department services when a student-athlete has been charged with a felony. The suspension is indefinite pending the outcome of criminal proceedings and disciplinary action by the ACT, which as soon as possible shall be informed by the AD or designee of the temporary suspension and meet to discuss the issue. In cases where charges have not been filed, but reasonable evidence exists that a student-athlete may have committed a Category I violation (e.g., other specific and credible information exists such as arrest record, statements of law enforcement officers, University records, third-party or witness statements, or acknowledgement by the student-athlete), the ACT shall convene and determine preliminary action.

B. Category II Violation
A Category II violation occurs in any situation where an individual:
 Is charged with a non-felony criminal offense (e.g., misdemeanor assault, misdemeanor
DUI, misdemeanor theft, etc.) and, in looking at the totality of the circumstances, it is
reasonable to believe that the person committed the act; or
 Violates a term of probation or other condition imposed by a court in a criminal proceeding, or;
found to have engaged in conduct that is deemed inappropriate, reckless, inciting, or malicious (e.g., vandalism, destruction of University property, etc.) which could bring embarrassment to the team, the Department of Athletics, or the campus community.

C. Category III Violation
A Category III violation occurs in any situation where an individual:
 Is charged with or receives a citation for a “disorderly-person” offense and, in looking at
the totality of the circumstances, it is reasonable to believe that the person committed the act (e.g., open container, false identification, public urination, underage possession of alcohol, disorderly conduct, resisting arrest, etc.).




There is also a penalty schedule for each category in this link. I couldn't get it embedded as an image. Click on this link and go to page 11 to see it. This should help clarify what I've been stating

http://sidearm.sites.s3.amazonaws.com/g ... ndbook.pdf

[91catAlum]

Where is the part that talks about punishment occurring after the courts have run their course? I'm missing that somewhere.

It still seems like there is some gray area in there. In reading the above, it's a category 2 violation. It says when the individual is CHARGED with a non-felony offense, and it's reasonable to believe the person committed the act, a violation has occurred. He was stopped for suspicion of DUI, and refused the breathalyzer, correct? Given that, it's reasonable to believe he had at least been drinking (non-drinkers don't normally refuse a breathalyzer, because it will prove their innocence.), which is a probation violation, and thus a category 2 violation has occurred.

[Cataholic]

Here, this will make it easier. This is direct from the UM Student Athlete Code of Conduct. I also provided the link at the bottom:


A. Category I Violation
A Category I violation occurs in any situation where an individual:
 Is charged with a felony and, in looking at the totality of the circumstances, it is
reasonable to believe the person committed the act (e.g., rape, sexual assault, other felony assault, felony theft, felony DUI, etc.).
o Preliminary Action: The Athletic Director or his/her designee shall take preliminary action to temporarily suspend a student-athlete from participation in practice, competition, and/or access to athletic department services when a student-athlete has been charged with a felony. The suspension is indefinite pending the outcome of criminal proceedings and disciplinary action by the ACT, which as soon as possible shall be informed by the AD or designee of the temporary suspension and meet to discuss the issue. In cases where charges have not been filed, but reasonable evidence exists that a student-athlete may have committed a Category I violation (e.g., other specific and credible information exists such as arrest record, statements of law enforcement officers, University records, third-party or witness statements, or acknowledgement by the student-athlete), the ACT shall convene and determine preliminary action.

B. Category II Violation
A Category II violation occurs in any situation where an individual:
 Is charged with a non-felony criminal offense (e.g., misdemeanor assault, misdemeanor
DUI, misdemeanor theft, etc.) and, in looking at the totality of the circumstances, it is
reasonable to believe that the person committed the act; or
 Violates a term of probation or other condition imposed by a court in a criminal proceeding, or;
found to have engaged in conduct that is deemed inappropriate, reckless, inciting, or malicious (e.g., vandalism, destruction of University property, etc.) which could bring embarrassment to the team, the Department of Athletics, or the campus community.

C. Category III Violation
A Category III violation occurs in any situation where an individual:
 Is charged with or receives a citation for a “disorderly-person” offense and, in looking at
the totality of the circumstances, it is reasonable to believe that the person committed the act (e.g., open container, false identification, public urination, underage possession of alcohol, disorderly conduct, resisting arrest, etc.).




There is also a penalty schedule for each category in this link. I couldn't get it embedded as an image. Click on this link and go to page 11 to see it. This should help clarify what I've been stating

http://sidearm.sites.s3.amazonaws.com/g ... ndbook.pdf

Where is the part that says "the U of M can use this policy to justify keeping kids eligible to practice while the courts take their sweet time in reaching a verdict." Don't you understand that your defense of the coaches lack of action is part of what gives Griz fans (and program) the perception of win at all costs? I don't think the conduct code was meant to delay punishment. That so what your argument is leading toward. At a minimum, MSU has taken immediate action. No disciplinary action by UM looks really bad.

[Grizaddict]

91, click the link above I provided and go to page 11 for applicable punishments based on categories.

[Grizaddict]

Here, this will make it easier. This is direct from the UM Student Athlete Code of Conduct. I also provided the link at the bottom:


A. Category I Violation
A Category I violation occurs in any situation where an individual:
 Is charged with a felony and, in looking at the totality of the circumstances, it is
reasonable to believe the person committed the act (e.g., rape, sexual assault, other felony assault, felony theft, felony DUI, etc.).
o Preliminary Action: The Athletic Director or his/her designee shall take preliminary action to temporarily suspend a student-athlete from participation in practice, competition, and/or access to athletic department services when a student-athlete has been charged with a felony. The suspension is indefinite pending the outcome of criminal proceedings and disciplinary action by the ACT, which as soon as possible shall be informed by the AD or designee of the temporary suspension and meet to discuss the issue. In cases where charges have not been filed, but reasonable evidence exists that a student-athlete may have committed a Category I violation (e.g., other specific and credible information exists such as arrest record, statements of law enforcement officers, University records, third-party or witness statements, or acknowledgement by the student-athlete), the ACT shall convene and determine preliminary action.

B. Category II Violation
A Category II violation occurs in any situation where an individual:
 Is charged with a non-felony criminal offense (e.g., misdemeanor assault, misdemeanor
DUI, misdemeanor theft, etc.) and, in looking at the totality of the circumstances, it is
reasonable to believe that the person committed the act; or
 Violates a term of probation or other condition imposed by a court in a criminal proceeding, or;
found to have engaged in conduct that is deemed inappropriate, reckless, inciting, or malicious (e.g., vandalism, destruction of University property, etc.) which could bring embarrassment to the team, the Department of Athletics, or the campus community.

C. Category III Violation
A Category III violation occurs in any situation where an individual:
 Is charged with or receives a citation for a “disorderly-person” offense and, in looking at
the totality of the circumstances, it is reasonable to believe that the person committed the act (e.g., open container, false identification, public urination, underage possession of alcohol, disorderly conduct, resisting arrest, etc.).




There is also a penalty schedule for each category in this link. I couldn't get it embedded as an image. Click on this link and go to page 11 to see it. This should help clarify what I've been stating

http://sidearm.sites.s3.amazonaws.com/g ... ndbook.pdf

Where is the part that says "the U of M can use this policy to justify keeping kids eligible to practice while the courts take their sweet time in reaching a verdict." Don't you understand that your defense of the coaches lack of action is part of what gives Griz fans (and program) the perception of win at all costs? I don't think the conduct code was meant to delay punishment. That so what your argument is leading toward. At a minimum, MSU has taken immediate action. No disciplinary action by UM looks really bad.

UM has taken immediate action, too. Gamboa was suspended immediately and sat out NDSU game per code since he plead guilty. The 3 Griz who got misdemeanor trespassing were suspended indefinitely and only came back once charge was reduced, again per the code. Not sure why you're having such a difficult time with it. I'm sure counts charges aren't going to drag on and on like you imply. He will get his suspension.

Maybe MSUs code of conduct is separate and different than UMs. I really have no idea. I don't think UMs is lenient whatsoever. It looks very fair to me and removes the decision from the coaches so there is no bias. Maybe it was very easy to suspend Tappan who was already on very thin ice after getting booted from Cincy and maybe easy to suspend Daly who was out for the year anyway. Plus he punched a gal in the face. MSU maybe had no other decision with that one. I don't know all those intricacies.

[91catAlum]

91, click the link above I provided and go to page 11 for applicable punishments based on categories.

I did, it says 2nd offense category 2 violation is a suspension from 30% of the games. ?
Are you saying it's OK for him to practice based on that?

[Grizaddict]

91, I'm not saying that. The code is saying that. If the DUI sticks he will be dismissed. If it's a lesser charge, he will miss 30% of the season.

And Cataholic, I am not defending anything as you imply. In fact I stated earlier of it were up to me he's be suspended indefinitely until it plays out, only because it's his second incident in the last year. But again the code dictates all of it.

No need to make it personal as I'm really just trying to give all of you guys the facts at hand so all can see what is at play here.

[91catAlum]

91, I'm not saying that. The code is saying that. If the DUI sticks he will be dismissed. If it's a lesser charge, he will miss 30% of the season.

And Cataholic, I am not defending anything as you imply. In fact I stated earlier of it were up to me he's be suspended indefinitely until it plays out, only because it's his second incident in the last year. But again the code dictates all of it.

No need to make it personal as I'm really just trying to give all of you guys the facts at hand so all can see what is at play here.

But the code doesn't say that. It doesn't address whether a player can practice for games he's suspended from. You can infer from that, that it's OK to practice since it's not specifically forbidden. That's another gray area.
I think the coach could choose to temporarily suspend the kid from practice until it's sorted out legally, much like Luke Daly has been suspended. It would be ridiculous to have a head coach who doesn't even have that much power.

[PapaG]

Johnson got a settlement because he was wrongfully expelled. It had nothing to do with being suspended from the team.

It seems to me that in light of their national embarrassment, UM has somehow devised a "code of conduct" that makes it impossible to even suspend athletes who embarrass the program but who haven't had their cases adjudicated.

In other words, it sure seems that there is more leniency in player discipline now than there was prior to the rape debacle. Seems like a move in the wrong direction to me but the decision-making there over the past decade quite often leaves me confused.

[Cataholic]

Johnson got a settlement because he was wrongfully expelled. It had nothing to do with being suspended from the team.

It seems to me that in light of their national embarrassment, UM has somehow devised a "code of conduct" that makes it impossible to even suspend athletes who embarrass the program but who haven't had their cases adjudicated.

In other words, it sure seems that there is more leniency in player discipline now than there was prior to the rape debacle. Seems like a move in the wrong direction to me but the decision-making there over the past decade quite often leaves me confused.

Exactly!