Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by BozoneCat » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:09 pm

VimSince03 wrote:
BozoneCat wrote:Everyone keeps talking about how the players continue to line up in the wrong spots. Isn't this pretty much basic, 5th-grade level stuff? If our schemes are so complex that our guys don't even know where they should be before the play starts, how can you expect to be in the right spot once the play actually happens?! These guys are not complete idiots, I just can't understand how that continues to be a problem for 2 years now.

Personally, I'd like to see MSU's defensive coaches take advantage of the coaching tree and spend some time down at Boise State. Coach Yates is doing amazing things with the defense there, and that's a defense that I absolutely LOVE watching. They are disciplined and aggressive, two things we are not. I'd take BSU's defense over USC's any day right now.
And I also don't think Kane had the defense ready for a no-huddle NAU offense on Saturday. Substitution problems and players were not lined up in their stance pre-snap prior to about 5-6 big run gains mostly due to the no-huddle and not knowing the play (I'm basing that assessment off of multiple players on the front seven putting their hands up like this pre-snap :shrug: )
Agreed. Hard to understand why we aren't prepared for a no-huddle. We should prepare for that every game, save Cal Poly. If I'm a coach at another school getting ready to play MSU, I'd be crazy not to install some no-huddle after watching our defense struggle with it so badly.


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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by Darth Yoda » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:59 pm

[cat_bracket] wrote:
Darth Yoda wrote:Geeeezzzzzuuuuus bracket. Allow me to return serve while you head to the pharmacy.

Who the eff would you be rather rooting for right now? Serious question. EWU? They start 0-2 and head home only to give up 718 yards. A bunch of new born puppies could have played better D than EWU that day. Then how about going to Sac and never getting off the bus? How fun is it being down 20-7 late in the game to Sac? Doesn't sound like fun to me. You want to cheer for UM? It can't be fun to lose at home to a team that we destroyed. Then guess what? Liberty flat out proved creationism against them. The vaunted D looks beatable to me. Davis scored on their first 3 drives and were in the game the up to the middle of the 4th quarter. You want to cheer for NAU? How's it feel to give up 77 points to an in state team? Not fun. You want to cheer for Poly? How does a 1-3 start feel with at least one seriously embarrassing loss. Seriously bracket. With a clean slate and no questions asked, which one of these 2+ loss teams do you want to be cheering for right now? You like Kramer? Guess how much fun it is being a Bengal right now. You like PSU and their PAC 12 win? Guess how much fun it is to worry about the entire program imploding? Not much fun at all. I could go on. The point is that every team has had some total sh!t the bed moments this year. Not just us.

Here's some more stories to chew on. The last team to win a NC not named NDSU also had a pretty rough start if you remember. They happened to start 2-2 and their second loss also came on the road to a historically tough place to play. An upstart freshman QB crushed them that day. Well guess what? That same team recovered and, along with their Walter Payton winning QB in his junior year, won their next 11 games in a row. How about SHSU last year losing to a DII and, along with a bunch of D transfers that looked really bad early, going to the national semifinal? How about last year when NDSU decided not to get off the bus at NIU and only scored 3 points? They looked pretty bad that day, but the season turned out pretty well. I could go on. The point is that historically there are teams that look bad early and go on to great things. This could be us.

Perhaps your right about this defense. I'm not convinced just yet you are, but it sure could be. If you are right, what we have to look forward to is an incredibly exciting team with a QB marching his way to the Payton award. And here's the final nugget I'll leave you with: even if our situation on D is a dire as you seem to believe, from what I've seen so far in the conference, we still have an actual chance to raise the BSC banner and get some rings.
Strawman post if the year. I want to root for another team? Classic.
Not so fast. It's only a strawman if you remain a Cat fan.



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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by [cat_bracket] » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:55 pm

I see Colter is now saying basically what I said in a kinder more PC way. I'll just let him take it from here. Don't hold your breath waiting for him to give you a 'fix' for the D. As he said it more dire than he thought. He didn't elaborate, but I'm sure it's much more dire.



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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by Sotallytober » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:58 pm

Colter_Nuanez wrote:Montana State will certainly win two more games this season. MSU could win all seven. Any outcome in between 2-5 and 7-0 will not surprise me. In my mind, eight Big Sky teams — UND, EWU, SUU, Montana, NAU, Portland State, Montana State and Cal Poly — are still alive for a Big Sky banner or a playoff bid.
I don't know whether the sky is falling or it's time to R-E-L-A-X!
[cat_bracket] wrote:I see Colter is now saying basically what I said in a kinder more PC way. I'll just let him take it from here. Don't hold your breath waiting for him to give you a 'fix' for the D. As he said it more dire than he thought. He didn't elaborate, but I'm sure it's much more dire.
If the defense follows on its current trajectory of being one of the worst in the FCS (after being one of the worst last year) there needs to be some accountability in the off season.



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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by desmond1957 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:04 pm

{catbracket] What a crap post!!!Before you throw freshman players under the bus perhaps you need to check some stats: Mac Bignell is playing fantastic fb, 19 solos, 36 total and 5.5 tfl., the sophomore is the leading tackler for the cats,but second is one of the Mt. AA players you were dissing,Grant Collins has 16 solos to Bignells 19, 28 total tackles, 2.5 tfl and 1 sack as a freshman so how about giving these kids a break, they are busting their ass while guys like you sit on yours and bray how " nothing can fix the D", Jesus Christ!!! What NFL team did you play for????? By the way, your comparison about Mt. class AA vs class B and C players "Tucker Yates -Class C and Bignell are the only ones who can tackle", Tucker is a hell of a player and will only get better but his 3 solos are a little behind Grants 16. Maybe you should apply for a coaching job as Kane's assistant, either that or crawl back to your normal home on egriz!!



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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by [cat_bracket] » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:09 pm

Sotallytober wrote:
Colter_Nuanez wrote:Montana State will certainly win two more games this season. MSU could win all seven. Any outcome in between 2-5 and 7-0 will not surprise me. In my mind, eight Big Sky teams — UND, EWU, SUU, Montana, NAU, Portland State, Montana State and Cal Poly — are still alive for a Big Sky banner or a playoff bid.
I don't know whether the sky is falling or it's time to R-E-L-A-X!
[cat_bracket] wrote:I see Colter is now saying basically what I said in a kinder more PC way. I'll just let him take it from here. Don't hold your breath waiting for him to give you a 'fix' for the D. As he said it more dire than he thought. He didn't elaborate, but I'm sure it's much more dire.
If the defense follows on its current trajectory of being one of the worst in the FCS (after being one of the worst last year) there needs to be some accountability in the off season.
Well that depends on what you mean by current. We shouldn't give up the yards and big plays like we have been because the teams aren't as good. If any of our next five hit 500, then that's zero improvement IMO. I think the only team we hold under 400 will be ETSU.

What's so unbelievable is the perceived talent. Three 3-star and five 2-star and two AA MVPs. I know the stars mean nothing, but you'd think out of that group you'd have a good core.



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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by [cat_bracket] » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:11 pm

desmond1957 wrote:{catbracket] What a crap post!!!Before you throw freshman players under the bus perhaps you need to check some stats: Mac Bignell is playing fantastic fb, 19 solos, 36 total and 5.5 tfl., the sophomore is the leading tackler for the cats,but second is one of the Mt. AA players you were dissing,Grant Collins has 16 solos to Bignells 19, 28 total tackles, 2.5 tfl and 1 sack as a freshman so how about giving these kids a break, they are busting their ass while guys like you sit on yours and bray how " nothing can fix the D", Jesus Christ!!! What NFL team did you play for????? By the way, your comparison about Mt. class AA vs class B and C players "Tucker Yates -Class C and Bignell are the only ones who can tackle", Tucker is a hell of a player and will only get better but his 3 solos are a little behind Grants 16. Maybe you should apply for a coaching job as Kane's assistant, either that or crawl back to your normal home on egriz!!
Yep and had you read my posts you'd see I gave those three credit for playing well. Oops, sorry to embarrass you.



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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by VimSince03 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:15 pm

[cat_bracket] wrote:
Sotallytober wrote:
Colter_Nuanez wrote:Montana State will certainly win two more games this season. MSU could win all seven. Any outcome in between 2-5 and 7-0 will not surprise me. In my mind, eight Big Sky teams — UND, EWU, SUU, Montana, NAU, Portland State, Montana State and Cal Poly — are still alive for a Big Sky banner or a playoff bid.
I don't know whether the sky is falling or it's time to R-E-L-A-X!
[cat_bracket] wrote:I see Colter is now saying basically what I said in a kinder more PC way. I'll just let him take it from here. Don't hold your breath waiting for him to give you a 'fix' for the D. As he said it more dire than he thought. He didn't elaborate, but I'm sure it's much more dire.
If the defense follows on its current trajectory of being one of the worst in the FCS (after being one of the worst last year) there needs to be some accountability in the off season.
Well that depends on what you mean by current. We shouldn't give up the yards and big plays like we have been because the teams aren't as good. If any of our next five hit 500, then that's zero improvement IMO. I think the only team we hold under 400 will be ETSU.

What's so unbelievable is the perceived talent. Three 3-star and five 2-star and two AA MVPs. I know the stars mean nothing, but you'd think out of that group you'd have a good core.
Well our two AA MVPs are very young and both playing relatively good football as a redshirt sophomore and redshirt freshman. Tyrone is also a three star recruit starting as a true sophomore. I think we do have a good core. Hell at this point I think its great that all these sophomores and freshman are playing. But the only problem is that the core is young and inexperienced. Patience will be needed for this defense.


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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by [cat_bracket] » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:26 pm

VimSince03 wrote:
[cat_bracket] wrote:
Sotallytober wrote:
Colter_Nuanez wrote:Montana State will certainly win two more games this season. MSU could win all seven. Any outcome in between 2-5 and 7-0 will not surprise me. In my mind, eight Big Sky teams — UND, EWU, SUU, Montana, NAU, Portland State, Montana State and Cal Poly — are still alive for a Big Sky banner or a playoff bid.
I don't know whether the sky is falling or it's time to R-E-L-A-X!
[cat_bracket] wrote:I see Colter is now saying basically what I said in a kinder more PC way. I'll just let him take it from here. Don't hold your breath waiting for him to give you a 'fix' for the D. As he said it more dire than he thought. He didn't elaborate, but I'm sure it's much more dire.
If the defense follows on its current trajectory of being one of the worst in the FCS (after being one of the worst last year) there needs to be some accountability in the off season.
Well that depends on what you mean by current. We shouldn't give up the yards and big plays like we have been because the teams aren't as good. If any of our next five hit 500, then that's zero improvement IMO. I think the only team we hold under 400 will be ETSU.

What's so unbelievable is the perceived talent. Three 3-star and five 2-star and two AA MVPs. I know the stars mean nothing, but you'd think out of that group you'd have a good core.
Well our two AA MVPs are very young and both playing relatively good football as a redshirt sophomore and redshirt freshman. Tyrone is also a three star recruit starting as a true sophomore. I think we do have a good core. Hell at this point I think its great that all these sophomores and freshman are playing. But the only problem is that the core is young and inexperienced. Patience will be needed for this defense.
I just try to put myself in their shoes. I don't think they look at it that way. Their pride is at stake and I doubt that they'd say they're too young. I'm worried they've lost confidence in themselves and each other. That's very hard to get back. They'd need to ball out to a serious magnitude the next 3-4 games just to get some semblance of swagger. I'm talking hold teams to 250 per game and be on task at all times. That's asking a lot.



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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by Caboose » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:07 pm

Colter_Nuanez wrote:
Helcat72 wrote:One other thing, go back and read colters prediction for how our season would evolve. He chooses nau as our only loss going into the Bobcat grizzly game.
I could've told you from the day the schedule came out that MSU would lose in Flagstaff. Every Montana State team I've covered has a hard time going to place they've never been (none of these 'Cats were on the team in 2010). Remember Southern Utah in 2012? Narrow win despite MSU being one of the best teams in the country. UC Davis later that year? A one-score win despite a sizeable advantage in talent. Flagstaff is a tough place to play and you had to know NAU was going to let it all hang out against the Bobcats, just like they always do
against the Montana schools at the Walkup Skydome.

It's fascinating how expectations can change and influence a narrative surrounding a team. Last season, Montana State had an unknown at quarterback and an unproven defense. MSU started the season 2-2 and 3-2 despite playing four of five at home. At this exact point last season, Montana State followers were glowing with optimism despite the fact that Montana State had a loss to EWU, a Division II win and a solid win over a solid but likely slightly overrated Central Arkansas team. This season, MSU has a Division II win, a loss to Eastern Washington, a loss at one of the toughest places to play in the league and a win over a solid but likely slightly overrated Cal Poly team. Yet because preseason expectations were so high, the perception is much different.

Montana State's defensive problems are more dire than I thought entering the season. Not a single transfer is performing up to expectations. Montana State will struggle mightily with any team that throws the ball down the field vertically this season. But Sac State is likely the worst team in the Big Sky with three freshman defensive back starters and an offense averaging 13 points per game against Division I competition, Portland State can't throw the ball down the field or play from behind and East Tennessee State is likely the worst team in Division I so the players and coaches have almost a month to figure it out.

Portland State and North Dakota are both the real deal defensively. UND is looking more and more like a title contender. Southern Utah is going to continue to gain momentum with a bye followed by games against UC Davis and Sac State, meaning the T-Birds will likely be 4-0 in conference before the meat of their schedule which includes a final month of Cal Poly, @ Montana State, @ Portland State, NAU at home. Idaho State is reeling but none of these MSU players have ever played at Holt Arena...and ISU can throw the ball down the field. Michael Sanders, the quarterback, is sub-standard compared to Arias but all the offensive weapons remain the same.

Montana State will certainly win two more games this season. MSU could win all seven. Any outcome in between 2-5 and 7-0 will not surprise me. In my mind, eight Big Sky teams — UND, EWU, SUU, Montana, NAU, Portland State, Montana State and Cal Poly — are still alive for a Big Sky banner or a playoff bid.

UND has a chance to be 4-0 (Idaho State, Weber State) before playing the Montana schools back to back weeks, which will make or break their title bid.

If Cal Poly loses to Eastern this weekend, it will be hard to bounce back despite CP's schedule mellowing out a bit after that, although PSU, SUU and UND still remain.

NAU will likely get on a little roll with Davis, Weber and Northern Colorado up next before at EWU on November 7.

EWU has ISU, UNC and Weber before hosting NAU, so the Eagles could get some momentum going as well.

Portland State has arguably the toughest remaining schedule — at North Texas, Montana State, at Cal Poly, Montana, at Northern Colorado, Southern Utah, at EWU.

Montana's October — Weber State, UND, At Portland State — doesn't look so easy all of a sudden and the finish — at Idaho State, EWU, at Montana State — is tough as well.
So Colter how do you think it all plays out? Will MSU get better enough on D that the offense can win them most games? Is Eastern going to just runaway with the conference and not lose? Can the Griz become consistent enough on offense to be a real a threat? Or will one of the dark horses win it? Very interested in your opinion on this.



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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by 91catAlum » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:36 pm

[cat_bracket] wrote:
desmond1957 wrote:{catbracket] What a crap post!!!Before you throw freshman players under the bus perhaps you need to check some stats: Mac Bignell is playing fantastic fb, 19 solos, 36 total and 5.5 tfl., the sophomore is the leading tackler for the cats,but second is one of the Mt. AA players you were dissing,Grant Collins has 16 solos to Bignells 19, 28 total tackles, 2.5 tfl and 1 sack as a freshman so how about giving these kids a break, they are busting their ass while guys like you sit on yours and bray how " nothing can fix the D", Jesus Christ!!! What NFL team did you play for????? By the way, your comparison about Mt. class AA vs class B and C players "Tucker Yates -Class C and Bignell are the only ones who can tackle", Tucker is a hell of a player and will only get better but his 3 solos are a little behind Grants 16. Maybe you should apply for a coaching job as Kane's assistant, either that or crawl back to your normal home on egriz!!
Yep and had you read my posts you'd see I gave those three credit for playing well. Oops, sorry to embarrass you.
You only embarrassed yourself today with this thread.


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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by gtapp » Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:31 pm

We are worse than I expected but I still think improvement will come. This is Kane's first year and he needs some time (more than 4 games) to get things moving in the right direction. Also Ash went all in last year in defensive recruiting to try and right the ship. As I mentioned before you don't bring in that many new players (especially freshmen) and make a sudden change. I thought they would be better by game 6 or 7 and maybe that was too aggressive. It may take until next year but with Kane and the coaches commitment to recruiting very good defensive players I think next year we should be all right.


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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by utucats » Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:41 pm

I agree with half the title of this thread, we do have lots of problems. However, the idea that nothing can fix this D seems ridiculous to me. I've seen improvement this year and flashes of what may become a very capable defensive unit. Saturday was a step backwards no doubt but that's part of the process. What I want to see is how these guys react to this setback. Will these guys continue to work to get better with the hopes that eventually that work will pay off, or will they take the easier way and approach of the OP and just figure if they don't get their hopes up they won't have to deal with disappointment. Nothing worth anything is easy and I hope that our defense has enough pride in themselves to not adopt this idea that they are not good and nothing can change that.


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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by DriscollCat » Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:27 pm

Hey Bracket,

Obviously many people have latched onto this, and now it has made you look like a major hater. I think many of us are just kinda bummed out by your thread. It feels like there is no room for hope, but I think the 'Cat's have more going on than we are really giving them credit for. They haven't given up. We better not give up on them - not just yet.



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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by John K » Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:39 pm

BozoneCat wrote:Everyone keeps talking about how the players continue to line up in the wrong spots. Isn't this pretty much basic, 5th-grade level stuff? If our schemes are so complex that our guys don't even know where they should be before the play starts, how can you expect to be in the right spot once the play actually happens?! These guys are not complete idiots, I just can't understand how that continues to be a problem for 2 years now.

Personally, I'd like to see MSU's defensive coaches take advantage of the coaching tree and spend some time down at Boise State. Coach Yates is doing amazing things with the defense there, and that's a defense that I absolutely LOVE watching. They are disciplined and aggressive, two things we are not. I'd take BSU's defense over USC's any day right now.
I don't know if they still do, but they used to spend some time over there. A few years ago, I ran into Beck and Ioane at the hotel I was staying at in Boise, and they said they were there to observe BSU's spring practice for a week. I know that Kwiatkowski has moved on to UW, but Junior Adams is there now, so there's still a connection to MSU.



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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by onceacat » Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:40 pm

[cat_bracket] wrote:
Sotallytober wrote:
Colter_Nuanez wrote:Montana State will certainly win two more games this season. MSU could win all seven. Any outcome in between 2-5 and 7-0 will not surprise me. In my mind, eight Big Sky teams — UND, EWU, SUU, Montana, NAU, Portland State, Montana State and Cal Poly — are still alive for a Big Sky banner or a playoff bid.
I don't know whether the sky is falling or it's time to R-E-L-A-X!
[cat_bracket] wrote:I see Colter is now saying basically what I said in a kinder more PC way. I'll just let him take it from here. Don't hold your breath waiting for him to give you a 'fix' for the D. As he said it more dire than he thought. He didn't elaborate, but I'm sure it's much more dire.
If the defense follows on its current trajectory of being one of the worst in the FCS (after being one of the worst last year) there needs to be some accountability in the off season.
Well that depends on what you mean by current. We shouldn't give up the yards and big plays like we have been because the teams aren't as good. If any of our next five hit 500, then that's zero improvement IMO. I think the only team we hold under 400 will be ETSU.

What's so unbelievable is the perceived talent. Three 3-star and five 2-star and two AA MVPs. I know the stars mean nothing, but you'd think out of that group you'd have a good core.
I'll take that bet. UNDs offense is so bad they would struggle to score on the Hawks.



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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by Marana CAT » Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:52 pm

gtapp wrote:We are worse than I expected but I still think improvement will come. This is Kane's first year and he needs some time (more than 4 games) to get things moving in the right direction. Also Ash went all in last year in defensive recruiting to try and right the ship. As I mentioned before you don't bring in that many new players (especially freshmen) and make a sudden change. I thought they would be better by game 6 or 7 and maybe that was too aggressive. It may take until next year but with Kane and the coaches commitment to recruiting very good defensive players I think next year we should be all right.
Great post gtapp!!!! We will win some close ones the next 6 weeks... Cat/griz will be huge for both teams making the playoffs... Both could easily come into that game at 5-2 (conference record). Hopefully our defense improves more then their offense....


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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by Heidi-jean » Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:30 am

Jamie Marshall, that's the problem. He needs to go.



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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by VimSince03 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:55 am

Heidi-jean wrote:Jamie Marshall, that's the problem. He needs to go.
Still got the "blame Marshall" excuse going I see. He is just the safeties coach. Kane is the man in charge. Regardless, I believe in the entire staff.


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Re: Nothing can fix the D; lots of problems

Post by VimSince03 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:57 am

onceacat wrote:
[cat_bracket] wrote:
Sotallytober wrote:
Colter_Nuanez wrote:Montana State will certainly win two more games this season. MSU could win all seven. Any outcome in between 2-5 and 7-0 will not surprise me. In my mind, eight Big Sky teams — UND, EWU, SUU, Montana, NAU, Portland State, Montana State and Cal Poly — are still alive for a Big Sky banner or a playoff bid.
I don't know whether the sky is falling or it's time to R-E-L-A-X!
[cat_bracket] wrote:I see Colter is now saying basically what I said in a kinder more PC way. I'll just let him take it from here. Don't hold your breath waiting for him to give you a 'fix' for the D. As he said it more dire than he thought. He didn't elaborate, but I'm sure it's much more dire.
If the defense follows on its current trajectory of being one of the worst in the FCS (after being one of the worst last year) there needs to be some accountability in the off season.
Well that depends on what you mean by current. We shouldn't give up the yards and big plays like we have been because the teams aren't as good. If any of our next five hit 500, then that's zero improvement IMO. I think the only team we hold under 400 will be ETSU.

What's so unbelievable is the perceived talent. Three 3-star and five 2-star and two AA MVPs. I know the stars mean nothing, but you'd think out of that group you'd have a good core.
I'll take that bet. UNDs offense is so bad they would struggle to score on the Hawks.
UND does have a really good run game however.


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