Prosecutors drop Lance Armstrong doping investigation

MashTun · Post by **MashTun** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:10 pm

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/02/03/sport ... index.html

Prosecutors drop Lance Armstrong doping investigation
By Terry Frieden, CNN Justice Producer
February 4, 2012 -- Updated 0152 GMT (0952 HKT)

Lance Armstrong has denied doping and never failed a drug test.
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
NEW: Lance Armstrong says he is "gratified" by the decision
He won the Tour de France seven times
Other riders accused Armstrong of using performance-enhancing drugs
Prosecutors had called witnesses to a federal grand jury
(CNN) -- Justice Department prosecutors said Friday that they are closing a criminal investigation of champion cyclist Lance Armstrong without filing charges that he used performance-enhancing drugs.
A statement from the U.S. attorney in Los Angeles said the seven-time Tour de France winner will not be charged, but did not explain the reasons for the decision.
Armstrong has consistently denied doping. He was accused of using performance-enhancing drugs by other riders, but never failed a drug test.
Late Friday, he released a statement in which he said he was "gratified" to learn that prosecutors are closing their investigation.
"It is the right decision and I commend them for reaching it. I look forward to continuing my life as a father, a competitor and an advocate in the fight against cancer without this distraction," Armstrong said.
Prosecutors called witnesses to a federal grand jury in Los Angeles as they investigated the case, but they apparently determined that they lacked evidence to bring a charge.
In May 2011, Armstrong once again denied claims from a former teammate that he used drugs during his cycling career.
Armstrong has been dogged by allegations of drugs abuse in recent years with compatriot Floyd Landis -- who was found guilty of doping in the 2006 Tour de France resulting in him being stripped of the title -- making a series of claims last year.
Armstrong came out fighting once again in May, in the face of fresh allegations made on the CBS News "60 Minutes" show by another American Tyler Hamilton.
On his Twitter page, Armstrong said at the time: "I have had a 20-year career, 500 drug controls worldwide, in and out of competition, and never a failed test. I rest my case."
In the CBS interview, Hamilton -- who retired in 2009 after twice testing positive himself -- says he first saw Armstrong use blood boosting substance EPO in 1999, the year of his first Tour de France victory.
"I saw it in his refrigerator," Hamilton told the American news program. "I saw him inject it more than one time like we all did, like I did many, many times."
Hamilton added: "Armstrong took what we all took -- the majority of the peloton took. There was EPO, testosterone, blood transfusions."
Meanwhile, Armstrong's lawyer Mark Fabiani blasted the "60 Minutes" report, releasing a statement saying: "Hamilton is actively seeking to make money by writing a book.
"He has completely changed the story he has always told before so that he could get himself on "60 Minutes" and increase his chances with publishers."
Fabiani continued: "Greed and a hunger for publicity cannot change the facts: Lance Armstrong is the most tested athlete in the history of sports: He has passed nearly 500 tests over 20 years of competition."

MashTun · Post by **MashTun** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:21 pm

Interesting that there's not one comment in 3 weeks, yet a discussion about this topic went for 3 pages a while back

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=24366&hilit=armstrong

ilovethecats · Post by **ilovethecats** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:25 pm

didn't see it. doesn't change my opinion....

barry bonds never failed a test either.

oj was found not guilty.

casey anthony is hanging out at home.

i could be wrong on all four of these situations but my gut tells me they are all guilty in one way or another. oh well.....

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:31 pm

Lance Armstrong is the most tested athlete in the history of sports.

John K · Post by **John K** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:21 pm

ilovethecats wrote:didn't see it. doesn't change my opinion....

barry bonds never failed a test either.

oj was found not guilty.

casey anthony is hanging out at home.

i could be wrong on all four of these situations but my gut tells me they are all guilty in one way or another. oh well.....

I agree completely. In a sport where virtually everyone doped, it seems extremely unlikely that the guy who dominated the sport for so long was the only rider who was clean. Just because they didn't have sufficient evidence to proceed with the case, doesn't mean he was innocent.

MashTun · Post by **MashTun** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:14 pm

ilovethecats wrote:didn't see it. doesn't change my opinion....

barry bonds never failed a test either.

oj was found not guilty.

casey anthony is hanging out at home.

i could be wrong on all four of these situations but my gut tells me they are all guilty in one way or another. oh well.....

As if the level of testing in baseball is even comparable to the level of testing in cycling.

It' interesting to me that there are more posts in the negative, than when a positive report comes out on a story. People who had lots of comments on similar thread are now silent.

MashTun · Post by **MashTun** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:22 pm

John K wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:didn't see it. doesn't change my opinion....

barry bonds never failed a test either.

oj was found not guilty.

casey anthony is hanging out at home.

i could be wrong on all four of these situations but my gut tells me they are all guilty in one way or another. oh well.....
I agree completely. In a sport where virtually everyone doped, it seems extremely unlikely that the guy who dominated the sport for so long was the only rider who was clean. Just because they didn't have sufficient evidence to proceed with the case, doesn't mean he was innocent.

Doesn't mean he was guilty either.

Saying "virtually everyone" doped is just not correct. Though the sport has had numerous issues in this regard, how it different than the steriod issues in football and baseball? I don't think "virtually everyone" in those sports was using steroids even though there were numerous players that were. Just because the guy was good, doesn't equate to guilt.

John K · Post by **John K** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:42 pm

MashTun wrote:
John K wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:didn't see it. doesn't change my opinion....

barry bonds never failed a test either.

oj was found not guilty.

casey anthony is hanging out at home.

i could be wrong on all four of these situations but my gut tells me they are all guilty in one way or another. oh well.....
I agree completely. In a sport where virtually everyone doped, it seems extremely unlikely that the guy who dominated the sport for so long was the only rider who was clean. Just because they didn't have sufficient evidence to proceed with the case, doesn't mean he was innocent.
Doesn't mean he was guilty either.

Saying "virtually everyone" doped is just not correct. Though the sport has had numerous issues in this regard, how it different than the steriod issues in football and baseball? I don't think "virtually everyone" in those sports was using steroids even though there were numerous players that were. Just because the guy was good, doesn't equate to guilt.

I don't think the situation in cycling was different than in MLB. Maybe saying "virtually everyone" is overstating it a bit, but I still maintain that the majority of elite riders during Armstrong's era, used PED of some sort. I would say the same thing about MLB....that a majority of power hitters used PED during the years that McGwire and Bonds were breaking HR records. Look at how many players were hitting 40-50 homers or more during that era? The HR stats were completely out of whack compared to historical levels. Now that players are being tested regularly, magically the HR numbers have pretty much returned to historical levels. And it wasn't just a handful of players whose HR totals suddenly soared....it was very widespread.

ilovethecats · Post by **ilovethecats** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:08 pm

MashTun wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:didn't see it. doesn't change my opinion....

barry bonds never failed a test either.

oj was found not guilty.

casey anthony is hanging out at home.

i could be wrong on all four of these situations but my gut tells me they are all guilty in one way or another. oh well.....
As if the level of testing in baseball is even comparable to the level of testing in cycling.

It' interesting to me that there are more posts in the negative, than when a positive report comes out on a story. People who had lots of comments on similar thread are now silent.

as i said....i didn't see this post. when i did, and you were saying the same thing....i responded.

personally, i couldn't care less. it's guys riding bicycles, and a sport i have never been interested in. i have my opinion about it, and it's all it is....an opinion. maybe he's totally legit. maybe he was so good he detroyed everyone, even the guys who have since been cuaght cheating. maybe everyone who has come out and said they saw him cheating was lying...and they are all doing it for personal reasons, book deals, and money. this could all be the case and my opinion would be wrong. but as i said, i still think oj did it, i still think bonds was juicing, and i happen tp believe casey anthony killed her daughter.....

i could easily be wrong on all those too. not quite sure what you're after unless you are looking for continued debate because you are bothered not enough people have responded. i'll keep my on this thread though and continue saying the same things so at the very least i'll be consistent.

still really just can't muster enough care though for bike riding. sorry.

BearCat · Post by **BearCat** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:20 pm

Guilty or not, I think the guy's a douche'.

He's an attention getter that has no sense of the word modesty. Even when he plays modest it's in such a way that it sickens me to even listen to him because he's playing the modest card just for the attention......much like Favre.

Can't stand either of them.

TIrwin24 · Post by **TIrwin24** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:58 am

BearCat wrote:Guilty or not, I think the guy's a douche'.

He's an attention getter that has no sense of the word modesty. Even when he plays modest it's in such a way that it sickens me to even listen to him because he's playing the modest card just for the attention......much like Favre.

Can't stand either of them.

Armstrong Envy

ilovethecats · Post by **ilovethecats** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:19 am

MashTun · Post by **MashTun** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:33 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
MashTun wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:didn't see it. doesn't change my opinion....

barry bonds never failed a test either.

oj was found not guilty.

casey anthony is hanging out at home.

i could be wrong on all four of these situations but my gut tells me they are all guilty in one way or another. oh well.....
As if the level of testing in baseball is even comparable to the level of testing in cycling.

It' interesting to me that there are more posts in the negative, than when a positive report comes out on a story. People who had lots of comments on similar thread are now silent.

as i said....i didn't see this post. when i did, and you were saying the same thing....i responded.

personally, i couldn't care less. it's guys riding bicycles, and a sport i have never been interested in. i have my opinion about it, and it's all it is....an opinion. maybe he's totally legit. maybe he was so good he detroyed everyone, even the guys who have since been cuaght cheating. maybe everyone who has come out and said they saw him cheating was lying...and they are all doing it for personal reasons, book deals, and money. this could all be the case and my opinion would be wrong. but as i said, i still think oj did it, i still think bonds was juicing, and i happen tp believe casey anthony killed her daughter.....

i could easily be wrong on all those too. not quite sure what you're after unless you are looking for continued debate because you are bothered not enough people have responded. i'll keep my on this thread though and continue saying the same things so at the very least i'll be consistent.

still really just can't muster enough care though for bike riding. sorry.

I am saying comparing PED testing in baseball to testing in cycling is a joke. Cyclists who wins stages in races(esp. Tour De France) are test immediately after getting off the bike, even before getting the days awards(yellow jersey, etc). They are also tested randomly. Bonds didn't get tested each time he put one out of the yard. A different deal.

You're going to believe what you want. I was also commenting how more people jump the bandwagon on a negative story.

And FWIW if feel about baseball like you do about cycling......

MashTun · Post by **MashTun** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:56 pm

John K wrote:
MashTun wrote:
John K wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:didn't see it. doesn't change my opinion....

barry bonds never failed a test either.

oj was found not guilty.

casey anthony is hanging out at home.

i could be wrong on all four of these situations but my gut tells me they are all guilty in one way or another. oh well.....
I agree completely. In a sport where virtually everyone doped, it seems extremely unlikely that the guy who dominated the sport for so long was the only rider who was clean. Just because they didn't have sufficient evidence to proceed with the case, doesn't mean he was innocent.
Doesn't mean he was guilty either.

Saying "virtually everyone" doped is just not correct. Though the sport has had numerous issues in this regard, how it different than the steriod issues in football and baseball? I don't think "virtually everyone" in those sports was using steroids even though there were numerous players that were. Just because the guy was good, doesn't equate to guilt.
I don't think the situation in cycling was different than in MLB. Maybe saying "virtually everyone" is overstating it a bit, but I still maintain that the majority of elite riders during Armstrong's era, used PED of some sort. I would say the same thing about MLB....that a majority of power hitters used PED during the years that McGwire and Bonds were breaking HR records. Look at how many players were hitting 40-50 homers or more during that era? The HR stats were completely out of whack compared to historical levels. Now that players are being tested regularly, magically the HR numbers have pretty much returned to historical levels. And it wasn't just a handful of players whose HR totals suddenly soared....it was very widespread.

I see what you're saying. Stats being out of whack. There have been several instances in the TDF history where one rider has utterly dominated for a time(Eddie Merckx, Bernard Hinault, Miguel Indurain). Most of the time this is not the case. WInning even one major tour(Italy, France, Spain) is a great feat in itself. Let alone 3, 5, or 7.

The thing is that during the entire era that he rode Lance was tested randomly(in an out of riding season). He was also tested each day he wore yellow(many many days) On some tours this means a dozen times or more, during the course of a single Tour De France. The riders get tested immediately after getting off the bike, even before each days awards are handed out(yellow jerseys etc). As the article said, he was tested some 500 times and no confirmed positives. Pretty tall odds to beat IMHO.

Show me a baseball player that's been subject to that stringent of testing. The testing policies in MLB got a lot tougher after these guys played, not during their playing days. Bonds possibly being the exception. Good to hear that stats are back in line now.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:05 am

MashTun wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:didn't see it. doesn't change my opinion....

barry bonds never failed a test either.

oj was found not guilty.

casey anthony is hanging out at home.

i could be wrong on all four of these situations but my gut tells me they are all guilty in one way or another. oh well.....
As if the level of testing in baseball is even comparable to the level of testing in cycling.

It' interesting to me that there are more posts in the negative, than when a positive report comes out on a story. People who had lots of comments on similar thread are now silent.

Well, if you insist ... yeah, doesn't really change my views, either. Just because he's not getting prosecuted (and seriously, I haven't figured out why any of this is really criminal in the first place) doesn't mean he's been declared "innocent." Dude's not going to jail - that's a good thing. Was he clean? Probably not. Do I really care if he was taking PED? Not really.

MashTun · Post by **MashTun** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:03 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:
MashTun wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:didn't see it. doesn't change my opinion....

barry bonds never failed a test either.

oj was found not guilty.

casey anthony is hanging out at home.

i could be wrong on all four of these situations but my gut tells me they are all guilty in one way or another. oh well.....
As if the level of testing in baseball is even comparable to the level of testing in cycling.

It' interesting to me that there are more posts in the negative, than when a positive report comes out on a story. People who had lots of comments on similar thread are now silent.
Well, if you insist ... yeah, doesn't really change my views, either. Just because he's not getting prosecuted (and seriously, I haven't figured out why any of this is really criminal in the first place) doesn't mean he's been declared "innocent." Dude's not going to jail - that's a good thing. Was he clean? Probably not. Do I really care if he was taking PED? Not really.

The fact the guy successfully passed some 500 testing sessions doesn't even faze the "he's probably guilty crowd". Would seem to argue fairly well in his favor, given the sheer number of tests.

However...Doesn't seem to even enter the thought process.

Doesn't seem too likely IMHO.

John K · Post by **John K** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:41 pm

MashTun wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:
MashTun wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:didn't see it. doesn't change my opinion....

barry bonds never failed a test either.

oj was found not guilty.

casey anthony is hanging out at home.

i could be wrong on all four of these situations but my gut tells me they are all guilty in one way or another. oh well.....
As if the level of testing in baseball is even comparable to the level of testing in cycling.

It' interesting to me that there are more posts in the negative, than when a positive report comes out on a story. People who had lots of comments on similar thread are now silent.
Well, if you insist ... yeah, doesn't really change my views, either. Just because he's not getting prosecuted (and seriously, I haven't figured out why any of this is really criminal in the first place) doesn't mean he's been declared "innocent." Dude's not going to jail - that's a good thing. Was he clean? Probably not. Do I really care if he was taking PED? Not really.
The fact the guy successfully passed some 500 testing sessions doesn't even faze the "he's probably guilty crowd". Would seem to argue fairly well in his favor, given the sheer number of tests.

However...Doesn't seem to even enter the thought process. Doesn't seem too likely IMHO.

According to his former teammate (I don't remember his name), he had perfected the art of masking his use of PED. That's really the main premise put forth by those who say he is guilty of doping. If that's true, he could have been tested 500 million times, and the results would have come back clean every time. Obviously you don't believe that's true, and while I wouldn't bet the ranch on it, I tend to believe that it probably is true. I don't follow cycling very closely, so I may be wrong about this, but it"s my belief that plenty of other riders who doped regularly, were also tested many, many times without ever testing positive.

MashTun · Post by **MashTun** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:18 pm

John K wrote:
MashTun wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:
MashTun wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:didn't see it. doesn't change my opinion....

barry bonds never failed a test either.

oj was found not guilty.

casey anthony is hanging out at home.

i could be wrong on all four of these situations but my gut tells me they are all guilty in one way or another. oh well.....
As if the level of testing in baseball is even comparable to the level of testing in cycling.

It' interesting to me that there are more posts in the negative, than when a positive report comes out on a story. People who had lots of comments on similar thread are now silent.
Well, if you insist ... yeah, doesn't really change my views, either. Just because he's not getting prosecuted (and seriously, I haven't figured out why any of this is really criminal in the first place) doesn't mean he's been declared "innocent." Dude's not going to jail - that's a good thing. Was he clean? Probably not. Do I really care if he was taking PED? Not really.
The fact the guy successfully passed some 500 testing sessions doesn't even faze the "he's probably guilty crowd". Would seem to argue fairly well in his favor, given the sheer number of tests.

However...Doesn't seem to even enter the thought process. Doesn't seem too likely IMHO.
According to his former teammate (I don't remember his name), he had perfected the art of masking his use of PED. That's really the main premise put forth by those who say he is guilty of doping. If that's true, he could have been tested 500 million times, and the results would have come back clean every time. Obviously you don't believe that's true, and while I wouldn't bet the ranch on it, I tend to believe that it probably is true. I don't follow cycling very closely, so I may be wrong about this, but it"s my belief that plenty of other riders who doped regularly, were also tested many, many times without ever testing positive.

The only two that have come out are confessed dopers themselve, Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton. Both tested positive and were banned. Landis stripped of his TDF title, Hamilton of his Olympic medal. Hamilton has been in the news recently on 60 minutes making accusations, which coincidentally? (I think not) was about the time he was promoting a book.

You'd have to name who you talking about regarding riders who "have doped regularly" and "tested many, many times without tesing positive". Who you'd be talking about I don't know, and I follow the sport fairly closely.

There are numerous top riders that did test positive for various things, but a least got caught once. He is likely the most tested cycling competitor in history given his comeback story and massive success. How a guy can be tested off season, at random where they come to his house un-announced for testing, and still never have a confirmed positive is beyond me. This on top of days where he won stages of the TDF and was tested immediately after getting off the bike(minutes were talking).This was often a dozen days in a row during an 18 day tour. I'd surmise that those days would be likely candidates for using a PED. When is he supposed to dope given all that? You'd think he might F*ck up, and get a confirmed positive at least once, yet NO.

You'll believe what you want, dismissing the whole issue by saying " he perfected the art of using PED's". Very broad brush being used. As if he knew all the methods of testing, AND what they were testing for. I'm sure the testing agency isn't going to release that information. Pretty amazing run on his part, a doping god I'd say.

Proof that being accused of something means that in many peoples eyes you're guilty of the act. Guilty in truth, or not. I don't know he is guilty of it or not, but I'm not going to assume that he is, when he's got some pretty good evidence to the contrary.

TIrwin24 · Post by **TIrwin24** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:56 am

Great post.

Unfortunately, some people refuse to see the positive and accept that there are some humans out there that have performed some incredible feats.

Shawn White is pretty awesome at snowboarding and skating, maybe we should start testing him for doping.

Michael Jordan

Laird Hamilton

Danny Ching

Lindsay Vonn

Just to name a few athletes that absolutely dominate in their respective sports and do not (as far as I know) use doping to enhance their performances.

catsrback76 · Post by **catsrback76** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:55 am

I would not argue for or against the likelihood that Lance doped for the simple fact that he did not get caught. That doesn't mean he didn't but after 500 tests without a failed test is pretty convincing IMO.

At any rate, to see what he did on a bike against all comers is amazing. I have ridden my bike over just 1 of the classic French climbs, the Tormalet, and it took me several hours and I was knackered. These dudes ride 2-3 in a day, with another 100 miles thrown in for fun!!! And they do that for about a month per race!

Amazing feat for anyone!

Lanced linked 7 years in a row against all odds, all comers and all conditions! He got game!!!