HS basketball coaching?

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TomCat88
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HS basketball coaching?

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:28 pm

I’m struggling to understand what’s happening in high school games.

A) It seems like the coaches turn over the offense to the players. Players take poor shots, players that aren’t good shooters are shooting a lot.

B) defensive players are out of position and reaching in a lot. They end up fouling and getting burned off the dribble.

C) players that aren’t good ball handlers are doing too much with ball and getting the ball too much.

D) good teams are full court pressing poor teams instead of focusing on things in those games that they will need against good teams.

Do coaches not evaluate their players and set up their teams to play to their strengths and not their weaknesses?


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Bobcat4Ever
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Re: HS basketball coaching?

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:47 am

Is the same thing happening to the coaching pool as the officiating pool — shrinking?



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Re: HS basketball coaching?

Post by TomCat88 » Wed Feb 22, 2023 11:26 pm

Bobcat4Ever wrote:
Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:47 am
Is the same thing happening to the coaching pool as the officiating pool — shrinking?
I’m sure that’s part of it. You have to be passionate and thick-skinned. I don’t think the players do much to make the coaches passionate and it probably snowballs from there.

High school GBB is hard to watch on several levels. Bbb is better but there’s still a lot of “strange” things going on.


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Re: HS basketball coaching?

Post by TomCat88 » Thu Feb 23, 2023 12:18 am

You’re up five with under 1:30 to play. You have the ball. You’re in the bonus. What do you tell your team to do?

I don’t think I’d run a play to get a 3-point attempt (with :24 left on the shot clock) for a player that doesn’t even average one 3 attempt per game and that I can count their makes for the season on one hand.

That happened.

The shot was missed and they ended up losing.


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Re: HS basketball coaching?

Post by Cat Grad » Tue Mar 14, 2023 1:20 pm

How about talking a bit about how perception is reality? There is a real shortage of qualified mentors, and it's my assertion teachers, coaches, administrators and officials are mentors. I thoroughly enjoyed this article as I've worked with many of the individuals the author quotes.

https://billingsgazette.com/news/state- ... 37772.html



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Re: HS basketball coaching?

Post by TomCat88 » Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:44 am

Cat Grad wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2023 1:20 pm
How about talking a bit about how perception is reality? There is a real shortage of qualified mentors, and it's my assertion teachers, coaches, administrators and officials are mentors. I thoroughly enjoyed this article as I've worked with many of the individuals the author quotes.

https://billingsgazette.com/news/state- ... 37772.html
...and fans and parents.

I can't tell you how many times I've had people tell me that I should check out this player or that player, then I do and I see a not very good player. I see players getting offers to play in college based on what I assume is scoring average only and they only have that average because they play a ton or minutes and put a ton of shots. Many of them score a lot simply because they're there aren't many other options or they're of the belief that they're a good shooter. I don't think a lot of coaches, fans, players even know what a shooting percentage is or what a good shot looks like. I also think a lot of coaches are afraid to be critical of their players' skills. I see kids dribble into double and triple teams, lose the ball/force up a horrendous shot and the coach says nothing to them. Then it happens again and again.

There are so few efficient players in the high school game. I don't think I've ever heard a coach laud a player for being efficient. I think this is in part due to the offenses being run and coaches/players mistaking hustle for defense/aggressiveness. I see players that are lauded for their hustle getting out of position and fouling a ton; turning the ball over and taking bad shots. I think there's too much emphasis put on hustle or that it isn't well defined by the coach to the player.


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Re: HS basketball coaching?

Post by Cat Grad » Wed Mar 15, 2023 12:41 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:44 am
Cat Grad wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2023 1:20 pm
How about talking a bit about how perception is reality? There is a real shortage of qualified mentors, and it's my assertion teachers, coaches, administrators and officials are mentors. I thoroughly enjoyed this article as I've worked with many of the individuals the author quotes.

https://billingsgazette.com/news/state- ... 37772.html
...and fans and parents.

I can't tell you how many times I've had people tell me that I should check out this player or that player, then I do and I see a not very good player. I see players getting offers to play in college based on what I assume is scoring average only and they only have that average because they play a ton or minutes and put a ton of shots. Many of them score a lot simply because they're there aren't many other options or they're of the belief that they're a good shooter. I don't think a lot of coaches, fans, players even know what a shooting percentage is or what a good shot looks like. I also think a lot of coaches are afraid to be critical of their players' skills. I see kids dribble into double and triple teams, lose the ball/force up a horrendous shot and the coach says nothing to them. Then it happens again and again.

There are so few efficient players in the high school game. I don't think I've ever heard a coach laud a player for being efficient. I think this is in part due to the offenses being run and coaches/players mistaking hustle for defense/aggressiveness. I see players that are lauded for their hustle getting out of position and fouling a ton; turning the ball over and taking bad shots. I think there's too much emphasis put on hustle or that it isn't well defined by the coach to the player.
Upon my return to Montana to care for my mother the last few years of her life, I pretty much gave up watching basketball. I did not watch a single game the coach played anything other than a zone, they didn't teach them how to box out and of course the officiating was ridiculous. Numerous calls away from the play simply because a kid was setting up a screen or worse yet, a kid ran into a screen! I have no idea what happened to Montana high school basketball other than the AAU camps? Street ball at its worst that always became nothing but free throw shooting contests.



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Re: HS basketball coaching?

Post by LTown Cat » Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:44 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:44 am
Cat Grad wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2023 1:20 pm
How about talking a bit about how perception is reality? There is a real shortage of qualified mentors, and it's my assertion teachers, coaches, administrators and officials are mentors. I thoroughly enjoyed this article as I've worked with many of the individuals the author quotes.

https://billingsgazette.com/news/state- ... 37772.html
...and fans and parents.

I can't tell you how many times I've had people tell me that I should check out this player or that player, then I do and I see a not very good player. I see players getting offers to play in college based on what I assume is scoring average only and they only have that average because they play a ton or minutes and put a ton of shots. Many of them score a lot simply because they're there aren't many other options or they're of the belief that they're a good shooter. I don't think a lot of coaches, fans, players even know what a shooting percentage is or what a good shot looks like. I also think a lot of coaches are afraid to be critical of their players' skills. I see kids dribble into double and triple teams, lose the ball/force up a horrendous shot and the coach says nothing to them. Then it happens again and again.

There are so few efficient players in the high school game. I don't think I've ever heard a coach laud a player for being efficient. I think this is in part due to the offenses being run and coaches/players mistaking hustle for defense/aggressiveness. I see players that are lauded for their hustle getting out of position and fouling a ton; turning the ball over and taking bad shots. I think there's too much emphasis put on hustle or that it isn't well defined by the coach to the player.
Bobby Knight used to talk about "false hustle"...you can work really hard and still not help the team.



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Re: HS basketball coaching?

Post by TomCat88 » Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:25 pm

One thing I hear a lot of coaches telling players is that they "don't care who shoots, because you're all good shooters." This goes hand in hand with running motion-type, dribble-drive offenses. I think everyone might be a good shot once in a while, but I don't think that's a good approach at all if it's not the case. I get that they want everyone to be confident, but if that's the case then anyone can bring the ball up the court and run the point and anyone can guard the other team's best offensive player. The other problem with that -- aside from the obvious -- is that some of these kids put in a lot more work than their teammates to become better shooters. I don't think wanting everyone to be confident is a good trade off. You need your best shooters taking more shots than your other players. If not, you're just playing into the other team's hands.

There was a team this season that had a player that shot 31%, which was 7th on the team yet that player took the most shots. Also took the most 3s and was only the 5th best shooter from 3 at 25%.

There aren't a lot of good shooters, so it's tough to set up an offense that you give your players that much freedom. I saw a tournament championship game where one player, who was the worst shooter on the floor (<20%), took at least 10 3s and missed them all and was probably 2 for 18. And this team had good shooters. Of course, the team was running some form of motion and not looking to get shots for its shooters.

What makes this even more obvious is watching Princeton! :lol: They're off to the Sweet Sixteen with their well thought out play. These high schools need to simplify and do the obvious. Seems like they're trying to over think things.


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Re: HS basketball coaching?

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:01 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:25 pm
What makes this even more obvious is watching Princeton! :lol: They're off to the Sweet Sixteen with their well thought out play. These high schools need to simplify and do the obvious. Seems like they're trying to over think things.
Your comment about Princeton is very true. After 20+ years of their success in the NCAAs, it’s not an upset anymore when they pull off a couple of upsets!



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