There does seem to be level of nastyness between UND and NDSU-even at the presidential levels that we don't even see between um and MSU.
It's interesting that the UND President doesn't seem to be too impressed with 1-AA football, yet UND refuses to play NDSU since the Bison moved up.
It will be interesting to see what happens. I'm sure if the Big Sky does go east, North Dakota would be an attractive member along with NDSU.
Conference Realignment-Big Sky Expansion Thread
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BelgradeBobcat
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It's looking more and more like the University of North Dakota is in the mix-although they are a couple of years behind NDSU, SDSU, and UNC.
Fargo Forum-UND interested in Big Sky if and when they go D-1
Here's a small article on the upcoming Big Sky Presidents meeting on Monday in Salt Lake City:
Grand Forks Herald-Big Sky gets down to business on Monday
Fargo Forum-UND interested in Big Sky if and when they go D-1
Here's a small article on the upcoming Big Sky Presidents meeting on Monday in Salt Lake City:
Grand Forks Herald-Big Sky gets down to business on Monday
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89rabbit
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Highlights from the Fargo Forum:
http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=77894
A bigger Sky
By Jeff Kolpack, The Forum
Published Sunday, December 12, 2004
Eight Big Sky Conference college presidents will gather at a Salt Lake City airport hotel Monday to decide if expansion discussion should continue to fly or be grounded.
It's the second step of a three-prong process that was laid out at the last Presidents Council meeting in August. It will also, perhaps, be the most telling.
If the Council agrees to continue, it is expected to decide if it will make campus visits for potential members. North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Northern Colorado and Southern Utah have been the four most-mentioned possibilities.
It is not clear if the University of North Dakota, which sent a letter of inquiry back to the conference last week, will factor into discussions. It is also not known if the presidents will vote on a particular aspect of expansion or -- like it did in the August meeting -- come to an agreement.
"We're right on track," Montana State president Geoffrey Gamble said. "I think the presidents are very serious on this issue. I think they feel expansion is in the best interest of the Big Sky Conference." . . .
If the Big Sky does expand, one issue that will probably be on the table, Fullerton said, is a two-division setup -- something that is becoming more common in other leagues.
The Southeastern Conference and the Big 12 Conference each have two six-team divisions. The Mid-American has a six-team and a seven-team division.
Dividing the Big Sky would help with travel costs, Fullerton said, with North Dakota State and South Dakota State.
"If people want to seriously talk about having the Dakotas, we need to look at divisions," he said.
That would probably require an additional four teams. Although a plan hasn't been publicly discussed, it appears the league would split into a North Division (NDSU, SDSU, Montana State, Montana, Eastern Washington, Portland State) and a South Division (Northern Arizona, Weber State, Cal-Sacramento, Idaho State, Northern Colorado, Southern Utah).
"We're very encouraged that they're talking about a 12-team deal," said NDSU athletic director Gene Taylor. "I think that would save a lot of money and ease some of their concerns."
In football, each team would play its divisional foes every year and rotate on a yearly basis playing three from the other division. In basketball, the conference would probably play a full schedule of 22 home-and-way league games.
More league games, the theory goes, would probably help from a revenue standpoint since fans tend to take more interest in conference games.
The three-step process the Big Sky is taking in its expansion talks are standard to the one most leagues take. In general, they invite applications, go on campus visits and give a thumbs up or a thumbs down.
In general, once a school gets to the campus visit stage, the odds of getting rejected diminish, perhaps significantly.
"They wouldn't be traveling to your school unless they were pretty interested," said former North Central Conference commissioner Noel Olson. "So I would say, yes, that's a pretty good sign." . . .
http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=77894
A bigger Sky
By Jeff Kolpack, The Forum
Published Sunday, December 12, 2004
Eight Big Sky Conference college presidents will gather at a Salt Lake City airport hotel Monday to decide if expansion discussion should continue to fly or be grounded.
It's the second step of a three-prong process that was laid out at the last Presidents Council meeting in August. It will also, perhaps, be the most telling.
If the Council agrees to continue, it is expected to decide if it will make campus visits for potential members. North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Northern Colorado and Southern Utah have been the four most-mentioned possibilities.
It is not clear if the University of North Dakota, which sent a letter of inquiry back to the conference last week, will factor into discussions. It is also not known if the presidents will vote on a particular aspect of expansion or -- like it did in the August meeting -- come to an agreement.
"We're right on track," Montana State president Geoffrey Gamble said. "I think the presidents are very serious on this issue. I think they feel expansion is in the best interest of the Big Sky Conference." . . .
If the Big Sky does expand, one issue that will probably be on the table, Fullerton said, is a two-division setup -- something that is becoming more common in other leagues.
The Southeastern Conference and the Big 12 Conference each have two six-team divisions. The Mid-American has a six-team and a seven-team division.
Dividing the Big Sky would help with travel costs, Fullerton said, with North Dakota State and South Dakota State.
"If people want to seriously talk about having the Dakotas, we need to look at divisions," he said.
That would probably require an additional four teams. Although a plan hasn't been publicly discussed, it appears the league would split into a North Division (NDSU, SDSU, Montana State, Montana, Eastern Washington, Portland State) and a South Division (Northern Arizona, Weber State, Cal-Sacramento, Idaho State, Northern Colorado, Southern Utah).
"We're very encouraged that they're talking about a 12-team deal," said NDSU athletic director Gene Taylor. "I think that would save a lot of money and ease some of their concerns."
In football, each team would play its divisional foes every year and rotate on a yearly basis playing three from the other division. In basketball, the conference would probably play a full schedule of 22 home-and-way league games.
More league games, the theory goes, would probably help from a revenue standpoint since fans tend to take more interest in conference games.
The three-step process the Big Sky is taking in its expansion talks are standard to the one most leagues take. In general, they invite applications, go on campus visits and give a thumbs up or a thumbs down.
In general, once a school gets to the campus visit stage, the odds of getting rejected diminish, perhaps significantly.
"They wouldn't be traveling to your school unless they were pretty interested," said former North Central Conference commissioner Noel Olson. "So I would say, yes, that's a pretty good sign." . . .
South Dakota State University
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89rabbit
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Highlights from the Sioux Falls,SD Argus Leader story:
http://www.argusleader.com/sports/Mondayarticle1.shtml
SDSU expected to move closer to Big Sky
Chris Solari
csolari@argusleader.com
published: 12/13/2004
League meeting today should confirm Jackrabbits as contender for league
South Dakota State should expect to hear today that it has reached the next round in the Big Sky Conference's expansion process.
The eight current Big Sky presidents will meet this morning at the Hilton Hotel near the Salt Lake City airport. They are expected to talk about expansion for five hours. . . .
"I think we will probably talk about the question of how many (schools to add) and how we want to align," said Stephen Jordan, president of Eastern Washington University of the Big Sky.
The Big Sky told interested schools in August to formally apply for membership. Jordan said SDSU is one of five schools that have expressed an interest in joining the conference.
Big Sky Commissioner Doug Fullerton said he will not reveal which schools other than the four already mentioned have applied, nor would he would say how many total schools have sent in applications.
"We're not trying to be secretive," Fullerton said. "We're being protective of people who haven't made the decision yet. Some people are wrapped up in other places, some schools that I definitely won't talk about." . . .
Fullerton said in August that the league was looking to possibly add between one and three teams. However, talk has surfaced that the Big Sky might consider adding four schools and splitting into two, six-team divisions to help minimize travel costs.
"I think that has gained some momentum," Fullerton said last week. "I'm not talking about with the presidents. I'm not sure where they are. ... But people say if we do add schools, and particularly go into the Dakotas, that we should add more members and go to two divisions."
Jordan said any such plans won't be finalized at today's meeting, but that they will be a prime topic of discussion. He added that the presidents, along with deciding which schools to visit, will form the group of Big Sky officials that will do the campus visits.
"If we want to continue looking at a school, we plan on visiting after the first of the year," Fullerton said. "We would tell them (after today's meeting), so there's no way we would keep it a secret. We would ask the schools that we're interested in if they would be OK going public with it." . . .
http://www.argusleader.com/sports/Mondayarticle1.shtml
SDSU expected to move closer to Big Sky
Chris Solari
csolari@argusleader.com
published: 12/13/2004
League meeting today should confirm Jackrabbits as contender for league
South Dakota State should expect to hear today that it has reached the next round in the Big Sky Conference's expansion process.
The eight current Big Sky presidents will meet this morning at the Hilton Hotel near the Salt Lake City airport. They are expected to talk about expansion for five hours. . . .
"I think we will probably talk about the question of how many (schools to add) and how we want to align," said Stephen Jordan, president of Eastern Washington University of the Big Sky.
The Big Sky told interested schools in August to formally apply for membership. Jordan said SDSU is one of five schools that have expressed an interest in joining the conference.
Big Sky Commissioner Doug Fullerton said he will not reveal which schools other than the four already mentioned have applied, nor would he would say how many total schools have sent in applications.
"We're not trying to be secretive," Fullerton said. "We're being protective of people who haven't made the decision yet. Some people are wrapped up in other places, some schools that I definitely won't talk about." . . .
Fullerton said in August that the league was looking to possibly add between one and three teams. However, talk has surfaced that the Big Sky might consider adding four schools and splitting into two, six-team divisions to help minimize travel costs.
"I think that has gained some momentum," Fullerton said last week. "I'm not talking about with the presidents. I'm not sure where they are. ... But people say if we do add schools, and particularly go into the Dakotas, that we should add more members and go to two divisions."
Jordan said any such plans won't be finalized at today's meeting, but that they will be a prime topic of discussion. He added that the presidents, along with deciding which schools to visit, will form the group of Big Sky officials that will do the campus visits.
"If we want to continue looking at a school, we plan on visiting after the first of the year," Fullerton said. "We would tell them (after today's meeting), so there's no way we would keep it a secret. We would ask the schools that we're interested in if they would be OK going public with it." . . .
Last edited by 89rabbit on Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
South Dakota State University
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89rabbit
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Just saw this post. Here is the skinny on getting to Brookings.BelgradeBobcat wrote:.
Getting to Brookings or Fargo would probably involve a flight to Minneapolis and then a connection to Fargo or Sioux Falls. From Bozeman, Northwest probably will work the best-I don't know what other airlines serve Fargo or SF.
No matter where the league goes-travel won't be for the faint of heart.
Via Sioux Falls:
Sioux Falls is serviced by Northwest, United, American, Delta, America West, and Allegiant. Sioux Falls has non-stops to Chicago, Denver, Minneapolis, Phoenix, Las Vegas, and Cincinnati. Sioux Falls is 45 min. South of Brookings right on I-29.
Direct to Brookings:
Brookings is serviced by Mesa Airlines (doing business and US Airways Express) and has daily flights from Omaha and Kansas City.
Last edited by 89rabbit on Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
South Dakota State University
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BelgradeBobcat
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A pretty interesting analysis of getting to Fargo or Brookings, and likely the reason that NDSU and SDSU were passed over for expansion at this time.
Fargo Forum-Flying team to Fargo a fare fight
"Say you're the parent of a Sac State basketball player and you want to travel to the Fargo and Brookings, S.D., swing for a Friday-Saturday doubleheader on Feb. 11 and 12. You go on a travel web site and input a departure of Thursday and a return date of Sunday.
It costs $457 to Fargo.
It costs $435 to Sioux Falls.
Say a week later the Hornets travel to Bozeman and Missoula for the same doubleheader.
It costs $252 to Bozeman or $254 to Missoula.
The distance between Missoula and Bozeman and Fargo and Brookings is about the same, so the rental car cost between the two trips is a wash.
Say you're a Portland State fan and you want to do the same scenario. It costs $431 to fly into Fargo and $420 to Sioux Falls. It's $232 to Bozeman. It's $234 to Missoula.
If that's what a volleyball traveling party of 15 pays, then that's an additional $3,000 to fly to Fargo in comparison to flying to Bozeman. For a program like Sac that averaged 4,974 fans for football this fall and 1,017 for men's basketball last season, that probably is enough of a difference to say no to eastern expansion."
Fargo Forum-Flying team to Fargo a fare fight
"Say you're the parent of a Sac State basketball player and you want to travel to the Fargo and Brookings, S.D., swing for a Friday-Saturday doubleheader on Feb. 11 and 12. You go on a travel web site and input a departure of Thursday and a return date of Sunday.
It costs $457 to Fargo.
It costs $435 to Sioux Falls.
Say a week later the Hornets travel to Bozeman and Missoula for the same doubleheader.
It costs $252 to Bozeman or $254 to Missoula.
The distance between Missoula and Bozeman and Fargo and Brookings is about the same, so the rental car cost between the two trips is a wash.
Say you're a Portland State fan and you want to do the same scenario. It costs $431 to fly into Fargo and $420 to Sioux Falls. It's $232 to Bozeman. It's $234 to Missoula.
If that's what a volleyball traveling party of 15 pays, then that's an additional $3,000 to fly to Fargo in comparison to flying to Bozeman. For a program like Sac that averaged 4,974 fans for football this fall and 1,017 for men's basketball last season, that probably is enough of a difference to say no to eastern expansion."
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89rabbit
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One thing to keep in mind is that Portland State would not be taking the Missoula/Bozeman trip off their schedule if SDSU and NDSU were added. They would be taking a Non-Conference game off their schedule. So to be fair you would need to look at say the cost of the Bethune-Cookman Tennessee-Martin games for Men's Basketball or Boston College, Eastern Illinois, or University of Maine for Volleyball.BelgradeBobcat wrote:A pretty interesting analysis of getting to Fargo or Brookings, and likely the reason that NDSU and SDSU were passed over for expansion at this time.
Fargo Forum-Flying team to Fargo a fare fight
"Say you're the parent of a Sac State basketball player and you want to travel to the Fargo and Brookings, S.D., swing for a Friday-Saturday doubleheader on Feb. 11 and 12. You go on a travel web site and input a departure of Thursday and a return date of Sunday.
It costs $457 to Fargo.
It costs $435 to Sioux Falls.
Say a week later the Hornets travel to Bozeman and Missoula for the same doubleheader.
It costs $252 to Bozeman or $254 to Missoula.
The distance between Missoula and Bozeman and Fargo and Brookings is about the same, so the rental car cost between the two trips is a wash.
Say you're a Portland State fan and you want to do the same scenario. It costs $431 to fly into Fargo and $420 to Sioux Falls. It's $232 to Bozeman. It's $234 to Missoula.
If that's what a volleyball traveling party of 15 pays, then that's an additional $3,000 to fly to Fargo in comparison to flying to Bozeman. For a program like Sac that averaged 4,974 fans for football this fall and 1,017 for men's basketball last season, that probably is enough of a difference to say no to eastern expansion."
South Dakota State University
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velochat
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Most of the west coast schools stay on the west coast, since there are plenty of other schools. Many of the other schools are in tournaments, which pay their way, or teams that are already in the region. CSUS probably rarely leaves the state except for paying games.
At any rate, I expect the Montana schools may want to travel to Brookings and Fargo if we can get home and home contracts. As the Dakota schools have probably already learned, it's pretty tough to get good D-1 home games at mid-major schools, unless you're in a warm climate with cheap air service. What would probably help SDSU and NDSU would be to encourage more schools in the area to go D-1. I have always been amazed that there was only 1 D-1 school for so long in Minnesota (has that changed?).
It's definitely cheaper for the Montana schools to fly to California, Oregon, Washington, Utah, Colorado, etc., than the Dakotas.
At any rate, I expect the Montana schools may want to travel to Brookings and Fargo if we can get home and home contracts. As the Dakota schools have probably already learned, it's pretty tough to get good D-1 home games at mid-major schools, unless you're in a warm climate with cheap air service. What would probably help SDSU and NDSU would be to encourage more schools in the area to go D-1. I have always been amazed that there was only 1 D-1 school for so long in Minnesota (has that changed?).
It's definitely cheaper for the Montana schools to fly to California, Oregon, Washington, Utah, Colorado, etc., than the Dakotas.
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89rabbit
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We have done pretty well so far. Next Year's Men's Basketball Schedule looks like this (not bad without a conference):velochat wrote:Most of the west coast schools stay on the west coast, since there are plenty of other schools. Many of the other schools are in tournaments, which pay their way, or teams that are already in the region. CSUS probably rarely leaves the state except for paying games.
At any rate, I expect the Montana schools may want to travel to Brookings and Fargo if we can get home and home contracts. As the Dakota schools have probably already learned, it's pretty tough to get good D-1 home games at mid-major schools, unless you're in a warm climate with cheap air service. What would probably help SDSU and NDSU would be to encourage more schools in the area to go D-1. I have always been amazed that there was only 1 D-1 school for so long in Minnesota (has that changed?).
It's definitely cheaper for the Montana schools to fly to California, Oregon, Washington, Utah, Colorado, etc., than the Dakotas.
At Nebraska
At Montana St.
Morningside
UMKC
Tennessee St.
at San Diego St.
Denver
Butler
Manhattan
SE Missouri St.
Wisconsin-Milwaukee
at Central Florida
at Marquette
SW Minnesota St.
Still have some work to do, but looks good so far.
P.S. To answer your question, the University of Minnesota remains the only D-I school in the state of Minnesota unless you count the schools that play at the D-I level for Hockey only. We are already playing the Gophers in most sports except Basketball and Football. Rumor has it that we will see the U of M on the Basketball schedules in '06-'07, maybe sooner. I would like to see Montana State and Montana on a regular basis on our schedules. Could turn into a nice OOC rivalry.
Last edited by 89rabbit on Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
South Dakota State University
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89rabbit
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Bozeman to:velochat wrote: It's definitely cheaper for the Montana schools to fly to California, Oregon, Washington, Utah, Colorado, etc., than the Dakotas.
Portland, OR $191
Seattle, WA $193
Sacramento, CA $215
San Diego, CA $244
Salt Lake City, UT $296
Sioux Falls, SD $313
Denver, CO $378
Portland, Seattle and Sacramento are pretty cheap. Salt Lake City, Sioux Falls and Denver are all in the same ball park. *
* Source is Cheap Tickets run as departure of Jan 21 return Jan 22 on Dec. 27th.
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MSU01
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The Denver and Salt Lake figures seem quite strange as one can get a direct flight to both from Bozeman on United or Delta...looks like Horizon/Alaska had some cheap fares! What do the prices look like for booking flights farther in advance than less than a month?89rabbit wrote:Bozeman to:velochat wrote: It's definitely cheaper for the Montana schools to fly to California, Oregon, Washington, Utah, Colorado, etc., than the Dakotas.
Portland, OR $191
Seattle, WA $193
Sacramento, CA $215
San Diego, CA $244
Salt Lake City, UT $296
Sioux Falls, SD $313
Denver, CO $378
Portland, Seattle and Sacramento are pretty cheap. Salt Lake City, Sioux Falls and Denver are all in the same ball park. *
* Source is Cheap Tickets run as departure of Jan 21 return Jan 22 on Dec. 27th.
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North Division (NDSU, SDSU, Montana State, Montana, Eastern Washington, Portland State) and a South Division (Northern Arizona, Weber State, Cal-Sacramento, Idaho State, Northern Colorado, Southern Utah).
I think it would make more sense to put Idaho State or UNC in the Northern Division and put Portland State in the SOUTHERN division? Or is this based on travel partners maybe??
I think it would make more sense to put Idaho State or UNC in the Northern Division and put Portland State in the SOUTHERN division? Or is this based on travel partners maybe??
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From what I understand Cal Davis is quite happy in the Big West bus league for all of their other sports, so they would have to be a football affiliate member only, which really doesn't resolve any of the other issues that the Sky was looking at for expansion, i.e. protecting the BBall autobids.jagur1 wrote:Instead of Southern Utah why not Cal Davis. Wouldn't that make Sac Happy.
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velochat
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I think Cal Poly and UC Davis were approached, but not interested. Either would have been great additions, but they play a lot of sports that Big Sky schools don't. We still should play them any chance we get. For now, UNC is the only candidate, so for the next few years, other discussion is academic. I think 9 is a pretty good number, 16 basketball and volleyball games makes a good season.
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bisonman
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I being a bison fan might be bias but why does the big sky keep sac state and portland state they just dont seem to fit the direction the big sky wants to go they seem to be bringing you all down why not get 2 teams like ndsu and sdsu, ndsu avergaes over 12000 per football game i hear that if you add all of sac states sports game averages it would not meet that and well portland state come on now.i just think there was a lot more then just geography to the decsion and the sad thing is that we will never know.
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velochat
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Because they are members and have as much say in the decision as any other member.bisonman wrote: why does the big sky keep sac state and portland state.
Historically, there weren't a ton of schools to choose from when PSU, CSUS and CSU Northridge joined. I think Southern Utah was the only other. When CSUN dropped football, it became a little awkward to not have the natural rival/travel partner. By the way, these schools replaced Boise State, Idaho, and Nevada. As long as any school wants to stay in the conference and meets the requirements, they will stay.
PSU was a very succesful D2 program when they moved up. I don't think they ever recovered from the loss of Pokey Allen. They're certainly competitive.
EWU was a school I had doubts about for years, but they have built something pretty solid.